birdhouse

The more dust/dander a fid has the more water repellant they are, the more they need bathing. Vicious circle. So yes, it's really greyt if they'll be willing to take their own baths & get truly soaked. But just getting a "spit bath" on a regular basis is good enough.

Oh yeah!! Never made the connection! Dahh lol Thanks Janet.

Just curious why some members have a plus sign after their name & why it only shows up when I'm logged in?

After your initial post, I think I'd have been more surprised if Lilly hadn't found her way home. Very glad to to hear she got so lucky! And happy this seems to be going so well. Where are the pictures, btw?

I'm so glad you posted this, Dave. I think the liberal use of the word "rescue" is pretty damaging for secondhand critters' chances at a new life. People hear actual rescue stories & start to think it would be beyond them to cope w/the challenges those critters might bring. So they decide they should instead take in a bright shiny new baby when there are so many adults who just need a new home. I've always thought of bringing any pet into the family as an adoption, anyway. Cute & cuddly, sick & snarling, doesn't matter. They deserve a life long commitment for their own love, space & considerations according to their own special needs & gifts no matter what that might turn out to be. Rescuing an animal, to me, is about taking in one who has come from a bad/harmful environment &/or comes w/known physical or emotional issues. This really isn't for everyone. It's usually far kinder to recognize it to avoid causing more well intentioned damage. So I think it's important to make a distinction. But rehoming, to me, is just that. An animal who has lost its *home* & needs new caregivers. Many of these were loved & well treated until something changed their caregivers' ability to provide for them. Given a chance, so many of would transition "easily" into another good home. I think it's sad that many people don't distinguish between adopting rescued vs rehomed critters. So many that shouldn't be are in need just because people don't realize how much joy a secondhand critter would give back if only they got a second chance to be loved.

I wouldn't have known to watch if you hadn't posted this. Thanks Dan. It's too bad that most shows on the web are only available for a limited time. Otherwise, this should be made a sticky so every prospective parront could watch & learn. Thought it was nicely handled & anyone who didn't get at least a little emotional should consider themselves disqualified from potential parronthood. jmho

I'm so sorry Wayne. This is just so sad! If nothing else, maybe you could file a complaint against their license. I know nothing is going to bring Lilo back or ease this pain. I don't know if you want to do anything monetary or if a rescue has much to begin with. But in case this isn't an isolated mistakes, something should probably be done to try to protect other birds & people.

Maybe a couple of things to consider when trying to judge the way the ALEX study birds live(d). Parrots cannot be made to do anything they don't want to do. They can't be bribed, bullied or beaten into any activity they seriously object to doing. Also, if it suits them to do something in the moment, they will. But if they don't like it, they may never do it again for any reason. A Grey who continues to live in a bad environment will, in a relatively short time, show extremely obvious signs of emotional instability. Albeit withdrawal, aggression, fear, etc. I just can't think Alex, let alone the other Greys could have continued to work *with* this study group & have such intellectual development which was so clearly proven & documented. Alex was the center of his universe. Did he live in a perfect world? Define perfect. How many of us have had our greys say they don't want us to cage them & go to work for 9 or so hours? Does it pull the heartstrings when they do it? How does the prefect world scenario measure up for the fids in isolation 40-50+ hrs/wk purely for the joy gotten from living w/them? Alex had more attention & opportunity for growth than *any* of our birds will ever have, no matter how much love or how great a home we can provide. But Alex was a working bird. He lived in a world that was carefully created to prove scientifically that egocentric humans are not the only creatures who can think, feel & communicate on a very sophisticated level. If any of the key players on the ALEX team even looked like they could emotionally contaminate the results, the entire enterprise would have been worthless. Everything that was learned from 35 yrs of ground breaking evidence would have been washed down the drain by an even bigger group of behavioral scientists than already dismiss it. Dr Pepperberg started this experiment in 1975. At that time, the scientific method for animal behavior studies outlined strict rules about starving subjects to 80% of their body weight to make them more responsive & working in an isolation box to keep them from accidentally responding to any undesired stimuli. Today, Betty Jean Craige's methods may be more acceptable to the average person. But she didn't set out to shatter hallowed ground in a scientific community from the Dark Ages. Dr Pepperberg's ideas & methods were astoundingly ahead of her time. And the results were even more astounding than even the relatively new found information about the great apes that was starting to emerge. There will always be people who continue to deny the obvious when it suits them. Just like people will continue to twist the facts to justify their actions, like getting a bird so it can be 'just like Alex'. There is unfortunately no cure for those sad facts of human nature. But in the long run, I really feel like much more good than bad has come from the things Alex taught us.

Welcome to GF Oswin. Like most things w/Greys this isn't a one-size-fits-all challenge. So before we'd suggest anything, it would probably be good to know a little more about your fid. Could you share some things like: How old is she? How many owners has she had/how long have you had her? How long has this been a problem? Was there anything you can think that might have happened to make her afraid/stop wanting to step up? When you said she's a biter, did you mean when asked to step up or anytime she's approached? Anything else like that you can think to add to your original post ...& her name might be nice, too.

Oops, take back the wing questions. Didn't catch, "wings slightly out to the side". Sorry.

A Grey's body language can be very challenging to learn sometimes. But in the absence of facial expressions (eye pinning aside), it's the most important aid to understanding what's going on in that little feathered head. I think one of the top 3 best bits of advice anyone can give a new parront is read everything possible & learn how it applies to your fid's body language. Hopefully, this will help get you started. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?109373-Body-language-most-frequently-seen For right now, you can't be trusted. Accept that & you'll cut your issues down immensely. So, would you want some humongous scary giant creature to grab you by the the neck? Uhh, NO!! Head dipping *can* be a request for a scritch. But sometimes it's just a submissive posture. Sometimes it's also an opportunity to lure someone in for an easy sucker bite. Might be better to put scritches on hold until you're not such a scary beast. lol Btw, my guys don't like scritches at all. So try not to be disappointed if Dolly just doesn't ever get into them. Also, the toy was really a nice thought. But Greys are famous for not accepting new things. Dolly's already on guard in her new surroundings so it's not surprising that she freaked. It's usually a good idea to offer any new cage item in stages. Calmly show Dolly TheNewThing from a nice safe distance. Then put it where she can see it for a while. Once she's ignoring TheNewThing (which can take hours, days or weeks), move it maybe a third the distance closer to the cage. Repeat until Dolly's totally unconcerned w/TheNewThing. And by the time you finally put it in the cage, put it in the bottom half of the cage initially because new things overhead can be perceived as even more threatening. Also important to act like TheNewThing is NoBigDealAtALL. I know that takes some of the fun out of it. But it's the best chance to avoid drama & rejection. It might be easier & more helpful to offer foot toys for the moment. See how Dolly feels about buttons, straws, bits of safe wood like popsicle sticks, clean plastic bottle caps, etc. These aren't as threatening & you can hand them in thru the bars while she can feel safe inside. That will help her get more used to being closer to big scary beasts, too. If Dolly was really upset she'd be still & silent because Greys are prey animals. Those instincts would tell her to hide. So the chirping & whistling is a very good sign!

Spent a chunk of my "extra" hour yesterday enjoying everything. I'm sooo jealous of that greenhouse! Think I fell in love w/the micro piggy. But my favorite part was all the laughter & obvious joy these people share w/these animals & their owners. Thanks for posting this.

Think I'm going to print this out, laminate it & make me a new key chain! lol

Please don't feel guilty because circumstances kept you & Sam separated. And Sam knew he was loved because. let's face it, greys know everything as they'll be the first to tell you. Many of us know how the colors fade when that very special ray of light is gone. But sometimes there's nothing for it but to ride it out, remembering the small things, the good stuff, the ways they make life even more special. If you wanted you could share that with us. Tell us Sam stories, show us his pictures & make a tribute here with people who can celebrate Sam's life & all the love it inspired.

W:cool:W Dave! Thanks for that link!!! Very nice!

I've had my Ninja for a while & am still really glad I gave into the impulse purchase. I originally got it for bird food. But I use it for all kinds of things. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?194324-42.50-VERY-Well-Spent

Please don't ever withhold food from any bird. They have very high metabolisms.

Birds' droppings are poop & pee combined. Changes in diet quickly show up. If Luna was eating colored pellets, his droppings will likely change color for instance. If he's taking in less water, which includes less moist types of food, his droppings will become more solid. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?197422-The-Dropping-of-the-Healthy-African-Grey-Bird? If it continues to worry you, then you could talk w/your vet or breeder. But if he's eating & appears normal, this isn't necessarily anything bad. Just keep an eye on his weight & activity level. Good parront points for being aware of this & switching to natural pellets, btw!!

Yeah, that was one of those little victories. lol It took me a little while to figure it out because this arrangement seems wrong. Both bolts are supposed to point at the ground so they'll make a hinge even w/o the nut. But I realized it was always the bottom nut Phenix would really get after when I saw the crazy angle the door got caught at a couple of times. He had to loosen the bottom before he could reach in to loosen the top nut. W/the help of my tiny needle nosed pliers, they're now both out of reach. I do admire how clever he is! But not when he's literally being too smart for his own good. And I admire his persistence right to the point where it becomes stubborn as a mule. lol Until I put a stop to it, working on those bolts was his favorite pastime. He was so determined to beat the new set up that his beak was a total mess for a while (see avatar). When he'd fail, he'd smash the door up & down in place. Very loudly!! It took him at least a month to admit defeat. Sometimes I still find him spinning the head on the bottom bolts. Never say die, that one! Your new home decor plan sounds like it's going to be pretty cute. Just thinking w/the holidays coming, you could really play it up. Have you thought about making little elf boots & reindeer hoofs for the chair legs? With a little imagination you could outfit the whole dining room for Xmas. If you're lucky Miss G will have gotten over her obsession by the end of the season. If not, it could still be a great conversation peice.

Hate to say that just because it's store bought doesn't mean it's ok for fids. I've seen lots of toys w/galvanized quick links & the pear shaped links which can also be very dangerous. A beak can get wedged in the pointy end kind of easily. At one point, I went to the hardware store & just laid in my own supply of good links. But the older my hands get, the more of a pain they are to unscrew. Somewhere along the way, I got pretty fond of those links & zip ties.

Hi Rah. Wish there was a quick & easy fix for what's going on w/Ronu. But Greys are complicated, emotional & intelligent beasties. Sounds like things have been adding up for a while. So working thru this w/him will likely take some time & patience & a healthy sense of humor doesn't hurt either. Jeff's suggested some good places to start. Barbara Heidenreich books can give you some really good insights. Also learning as much as possible about body language is really invaluable. Understanding eye pinning & feather fluff can very often help keep you from being bitten just for starters. Most Greys don't do well w/change. At 17, Ronu was old enough to be set in his ways. It would have been traumatic when he lost his (only?) other home & the people he'd bonded with. So that's likely a big part of his problem even still. You might try to read as much as you can in the "Rescue Bird Haven" before you really get going. A lot of the advice that's been written there will probably help you w/Ronu, even though you don't think of him as a classic rescue fid. You said Ronu doesn't play w/his toys. That may be because he's just not interested in those particular things. So these are a couple of free ebooks that I recommend all the time. Lots of variety. You really should be able to find out what Ronu really likes because greys really need activity to be happy & healthy. http://www.parrotenrichment.com/images/PEAB_V1.pdf http://www.phoenixlanding.org/PEAB_V2.pdf Also if Ronu is busy playing & foraging, he might do a little less screaming. Maybe. Screaming, like biting, may be about control. You said he either gets covered or fed. In a busy household, getting a little solitude may actually be welcome sometimes. And, of course the food is it's own reward. Sorry to say, he's got his minions well trained. But don't feel too badly. They're usually much better at training us than we are at training them. lol One thing that you could try is to keep part of his cage covered. It might give him a sense of protection if he has a place to "hide". It might help if he's only reacting to part of what's going on around him. It might not. Some birds hate being covered. But it's worth a try. He might also like to rip holes in the cover. So you'll want something that isn't going to end up in a bunch of loose hanging thread that can cause injures. But on the upside, at least shredding's a new activity. lol So, you can try some of this & a little of that while you do a bunch of reading. One other suggesting for once you're armed w/ALL this new found knowledge. Ask your grandfather to work w/you to begin with. It's really common for a grey to pick a favorite who is *Won!Der!Ful!* while everyone else is . But you might get to use it to your advantage by keeping your grandpa around to tell Ronu to treat you nice while you restart your relationship. You can also try to figure out what it is about him that makes Ronu trust him so well. Trust is the biggest hurdle when it comes to working w/a grey. Body language, approach, how we move & speak all contribute. So acting more like your grandfather can possibly score some major points & the good news is that Ronu can certainly change his mind about you if you earn his trust. Hope you'll keep updating & asking questions. Vent if you want. Braggin is absolutely good too. We also love stories & pics. Welcome to Grey Forums Rah & good luck w/rehab'ing Ronu.

Very glad to hear this seems to have ended well!! A possible solution is to replace your quick links w/zip ties. You can only use them once because they have to be cut off. But they're cheap & not dangerous to the fids. The other thing is to use plastic "C" links that are sold for attaching baby toys.

While you're checking latches, you might want to start inspecting nuts & bolts on a regular basis, if you don't already. Phenix current cage has fancy spring loaded latches that aren't even a challenge from the outside. One of the first things he does when he comes out is open all the doors. But he can't get at them from the inside. So he took to taking the screws apart instead. He was so very proud the couple of times he got a door to crash to the floor! I was so scared he'd hurt himself if one slid in the wrong direction. But I finally outsmarted him by threading them upside down. He can't reach the nut now which really annoys him. lol

lol Yep, I think you just set the bar pretty high for yourself w/that little intro . I'll be very surprised & disappointed not to see a ton of pics & posts. Welcome to GF, CritterCrazy! Looking forward to having you around.