birdmom

Okay, Thanks Judi good to hear from several people. Maybe I'm making some progress with my little Miss Fit! She never did it before yesterday! :woohoo:

Hi Deb, Well you've got lots of great advice, here. Lets see...about the humidifiers, I've taken mine out also this week and will clean it and get it running since the furnace is kicking on alot. I also put an airflow redirect things over the forced air furnace vents so the heated air blows up and not down toward her cage... Buddi really seemed to do better a few weeks ago when I bathed her 3-4 times a week. She just gets so flocky, seh hates it so I cut back but I guess that was a mistake. But between the showers and the palm oil about 1/2 of the plucked area has grown back but she won't let the new pins on the back of her neck flourish. She likes to pluck there. I have noticed her watching Charlie preening lately, so I scritch with him and talk to her, hoping she will take note that he does not pluck and we still have fun. The other thing I've started doing is that when she plucks one out I tell her, "no don't pull your feathers" and put her right back into her cage and ignore her. She likes to pull out a new pin feather when she is on my shoulder if I don't scratch her continually. I'll be doing something else, and oops out comes a pin feather. But I see Fawkes is shredding. One thing I did last April when all her plucking started (same time that I got Charlie) was somebody told me not to let her shred paper towel and T.P. rolls, they said cardboard is bad, so I stopped giving them to her and switched to store bought shredding toys. But she used to love them and now that I think of it, it was just around February when I did that. I brought Charlie home in April. So maybe she got mad, and without any rolls to shred, she went to her feathers? I have decided to try it again and it keeps her entertained for hours she loves to shred TP rolls and paper towels, empty or not don't ask me what it is but whenever I finish a roll, it goes on top of her cage. She loves to chew them up thru the top of her cage. She also likes to kill them when they are full of paper. So, I'm trying to occupy her beak all the time with something constructive to shred. I mean, that cage is full of shredded cardboard daily but I clean it right up. Do they sell those rolls of colored pinata paper called Shredders there? Buddi likes to tear those up too. They come in a roll for about 6 bucks. You can thread it thru the cage bars, and it may give her another option if she is frustrated? I think trying the Aloe, more baths, and a humidifier near the cage are good so Good luck and good karma! joanne

Okay, maybe Buddi is blushing? Both today and yesterday I think MayBE she was jealouos bcuz I was kissing on Charlie, and then went to her. Do you think she was mad ...she did nip me. Same thing last night. I thought she was sick, but she could be blushiing. We have been doing some real good bonding lately to get her to stop plucking, so maybe she is getting upset and flushing? joanne

Anyone ever seen that b4? I noticed yesterday when I came home that the white area surrounding her eyes it looks pink, so I guess the skin underneath the little tiny white feathers is pink, it normally looks very white. CHarlie's is white. This morning she looked white like usual, but this afternoon she looks pink again and it makes it look like she has bluish circles around her eyes. All I fed them was their pellets and a mix of sweet potatoes and rice with red palm oil in it. She did tear apart a pinata that has red in it, and dumped some in her water bowl. Any ideas? She doesn't feel hot. Thanks, Joanne

Welcome Deb and congrats on finding the Welcome Room. I will send positive thoughts your way. Sorry to hear about your tough times. joanne

On the EWG website you'll find info on Scotchguard, from 3M: PFOS is a "fluorocarbon" similar to the chemicals banned by the Montreal Protocol for depleting Earth¹s ozone layer. It builds up in the environment, eventually "bioaccumulating" in the food chain whereby people and animals retain larger and larger amounts in their blood and tissue over time. PFOS combines "persistence, bioaccumulation and toxicity properties to an extraordinary degree," says the EPA. http://www.ewg.org/node/21567 * So, I guess this means that if we have sprayed Scotchguard on our sofa to protect the fabric, we should let our bird sit on the sofa? ..for fear they may nibble on it? This is a sticky wicket for sure. Some people have carpet cleaning companies spray it onto their carpeting too. So, don't let the birds walk on the carpeting? Hmmm. not sure. birdmom

Okay bird friends, I'm not gonna cut and paste any more articles but Please you guys if you haven't, go to the EWG.org website and read it yourselves. This one was published in Singapore just a few months ago and indicates that the EU and US is phasing out teflon from our products gradually. http://www.ewg.org/node/22574 The Straits Times (Singapore) Published September 11, 2007 Read for yourself, but in part the article says the following keypoints: "Teflon's bad rep began in 2003, with a report by the non-profit Environmental Working Group which said that the fumes released while cooking at very high heat on non-stick cookware could kill birds." "Eight major producers in the industry pledged last year that they would phase out emissions of PFOA from factories and from their products within eight years." "Also last year, (2006) DuPont was fined US$10.25 million (S$15.8 million) - the largest ever civil penalty - for failing to report that it had known for over 20 years that the chemical can pass from a woman's blood to her unborn baby." ***Now listen bird owners, HOW IN THE HECK DID THE TEFLON CHEMICAL GET INTO OUR BLOODSTREAM, IF THE ONLY PROBLEM IS INHALING FUMES WHEN ITS OVERHEATED? IN MY OPINION, WE MUST BE INGESTING SOME QUANTITY OF TEFLON CHEMICAL THROUGH OUR FOOD WHEN WE COOK IT ON TEFLON PANS.*** birdmom Read On: (same article) "DuPont paid a further $16.5 million for not revealing that an in-house study of its employees linked PFOA exposure to cancer, birth defects and liver damage." ****HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HEAR OF BIRDS DYING FROM LIVER FAILURE UPON A NECROPSY?*** birdmom Going on, the same article also says: "While a phase-out of the chemical is in the works in the European Union and the United States, what is a concerned customer to do in the meantime?" ***Well guys, Birdmom thinks we should throw away anything in our homes that contains teflon (Teflon, Tefal and Calphalon) and tell everyone we know to do the same.**** I think we should not buy anything ever again that contains the stuff. Not even an Iron to press our clothing. (Rowenta makes a stainless steel Iron.) Not even an Omelet pan. Not even a bread machine or a space heater or a toaster oven. For Charlie and Buddi, birdmom aka joanne

And yet another factoid on teflon found on the eWG site, published in the Huffington Post: http://www.ewg.org/node/18699 Farewell to Teflon Huffington Post, Nora Ephron Published June 12, 2006 I feel sad about Teflon. It was great while it lasted. Now it turns out to be bad for you. Or, put more exactly, now it turns out that a chemical that's released when you heat up Teflon is in everyone's blood stream -- and probably causes cancer and birth defects. I loved Teflon. I loved the no-carb ricotta pancake I invented last year, which can be cooked only on Teflon. I loved my Teflon-coated frying pan, which makes a beautiful steak. I loved Teflon as an adjective; it gave us a Teflon president (Ronald Reagan) and it even gave us a Teflon Don (John Gotti, whose Teflon-ness eventually wore out, making him an almost exact metaphorical duplicate of my Teflon pans). I loved the fact that Teflon was invented by someone named Roy J. Plunkett, whose name alone you might have thought would have insured Teflon against becoming a dangerous product. But this year DuPont, who makes polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) resin, which is what Teflon was called when it first popped up as a laboratory accident back in 1938, reached a $16.5 million settlement with the Environmental Protection Agency; it seems the company knew all along that Teflon was bad for you. It's an American cliche. ================= Related EWG Content EPA Fines Teflon Maker DuPont for Chemical Cover-Up December 14, 2005 More related content »Related News Coverage The Sticky Teflon Problem The Straits Times (Singapore) | September 12, 2007 On The Other Hand Delphos Herald | August 13, 2007 Coated Pots And Pans Can Present Health Hazards Seattle Times | August 11, 2007 Should You Chuck Your Teflon Cookware? Jamaica Gleaner | July 29, 2007 Scotchgard Earth Talk | May 10, 2007 More related content »Categories Teflon/Scotchgard (PFCs)

I'm on a roll now Joe. I just hate white collar crime. Take careful note of the last paragraph about LDL. From: http://www.ewg.org/node/8739 DuPont Study Finds Link Between Teflon Contaminant and Elevated Cholesterol (January 11, 2005) Despite Teflon maker DuPont's longstanding claim that there are 'no known health effects' associated with its Teflon chemical PFOA, the company today announced that in a recently-completed worker study it found that PFOA exposures among Teflon plant workers were correlated with a 10 per cent increase in cholesterol. The company nonetheless repeats its 'no health effects' assertion in the same news release in which it announces that increase in human levels of the "bad cholesterol" (LDL). These results are consistent with previous findings of altered cholesterol in monkeys exposed to the Teflon chemical, and increased risk of death from stroke among workers exposed to the Teflon chemical. This new DuPont finding regarding cholesterol is the fourth in a string of studies conducted since 1994 pointing to excess risks for stroke and heart attack among workers exposed to the Teflon chemical: An American company called MIC Specialty Chemicals, Inc imports the Teflon chemical from an Italian company that makes it, called Miteni. Miteni's blood data of the past 17 years shows a slight increase of total cholesterol in the workers. In worker blood studies conducted by 3M Corporation between 1994 and 2000, scientists also found excess total cholesterol levels among Teflon-exposed workers. In 2001 3M published a study showing that workers exposed to the Teflon chemical for between five and 10 years face a risk of dying of stroke 15 times higher than non-exposed workers. 3M manufactured the Teflon chemical and supplied it to DuPont until 2002, when DuPont began its own production. See sources here: http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld LDL, the "bad cholesterol" is a well-known risk factor for heart disease and stroke. The EPA is trying to figure out how the indestructible Teflon chemical PFOA has gotten into the blood of over 95% of Americans; it is also suing DuPont for hiding health data for over 20 years.

Also found on the EWG website this 2005 case against Dupont regarding the Teflon chemicals that cause cancer and pollute our environment. (http://www.ewg.org/node/8749) EPA, DuPont Settle and Delay Court Case Over Human Pollution; Related EWG Content EPA Fines Teflon Maker DuPont for Chemical Cover-Up December 14, 2005 Coming to terms with perils of non-stick products Toronto Globe & Mail | May 29, 2006 More related content »Categories PFOA/Teflon/Scotchguard Teflon/Scotchgard (PFCs)Is DuPont Misleading Shareholders? Suspected Fine Falls Far Short of the Norm CONTACT: EWG Public Affairs: (202) 667-6982 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 6, 2005 (WASHINGTON, May 6) — The penalty DuPont will reportedly pay for covering up its pollution of newborn American babies with the cancer-causing Teflon chemical will likely be $15 million. This sum amounts to just 8 percent of the maximum allowable fine. On April 28, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrative Law Judge Barbara A. Gunning granted EPA and DuPont until August 15 to formally announce their deal. DuPont's indestructible, toxic Teflon chemical is in the blood of over 95 percent of Americans. The full penalty amount for this count in EPA's lawsuit against DuPont is $183.8 million, an amount that dwarfs the $15 million DuPont has set aside [see details on fine amounts at www.ewg.org/issues/pfcs/tsca8e_teflon/index.php]. "Either DuPont is grossly misleading shareholders by shorting their liabilities for suppressing these Teflon studies by more than $163 million dollars, or they've rigged the EPA process to knock more than 90 percent off the potential fine," said Jane Houlihan, Environmental Working Group's (EWG) vice president for research. "Either way, something smells rotten here." In 1981, two babies out of seven born to Teflon plant workers had birth defects along with the Teflon chemical in their blood. After EWG urged EPA to investigate DuPont's 20-year Teflon cover up, the Agency sued DuPont on four counts. For the suppressed study on the babies' blood alone, EPA could fine DuPont $183.8 million. The Bureau of National Affairs (BNA) reported that the day before EPA was to recommend a penalty amount to the judge, the parties reached an agreement in principle, for which DuPont has set aside $15 million. DuPont officials admitted at their April 27 annual shareholders' meeting that the company has so far spent $123 million in legal, public relations and other consulting fees to defend their Teflon chemical from two separate federal investigations and one class action lawsuit. "The Teflon chemical will never go away because it never breaks down; it will circulate through our air, water and blood forever, and it causes cancer and other serious health problems in lab animals," noted Houlihan. "Even now, EPA is waiting for DuPont to turn over hundreds of boxes of information about the Teflon chemical — what else will we learn about DuPont's toxic Teflon chemical?"

Wow Joe. I just checked the inside of my Toaster oven, and it appears to have a smooth dark non stick finish on the sides and back and possibly the top also. Fortunately I hardly ever use it. I think I may just get rid of it now. thanks.

Someone recently told me that the problem with onions and Parrots, is that raw onions can contain ecoli bacteria, due to how they are grown in the soil. Has anyone ever heard of that? The person tried to tell me that if you cook onions, it's ok for a parrot, since cooking would kill the ecoli. I'm just not sure if I should believe this, I thought onions contained some kind of enzyme they can't digest....no? I looked online b4 and couldn't find exactly waht I was looking for on this. Anyone?

From the same website, Dupont has known for 50 years that teflon is even dangerous to humans: http://www.ewg.org/node/8302 Environmental Working Group reviewed 16 peer-reviewed studies detailing experiments conducted over the past 50 years, showing that heated Teflon decomposes to 15 types of toxic gases and particles. Many of these studies were conducted by DuPont’s own scientists, who began studying heated Teflon (PTFE) in the 1950s when DuPont workers were developing polymer fume fever that the company found could lead to a potentially fatal condition called pulmonary edema [1]. Since DuPont's discovery of polymer fume fever, cases have been reported in the peer-reviewed literature of the same illness stemming from home kitchen exposures [2, 3]. Teflon offgasing studies show that at the design temperatures of conventional kitchen appliances, Teflon chemicals break apart to form the following particulates and gases: Two chemicals linked to cancer or tumors in laboratory studies (PFOA and TFE); Two chemicals that are potent global warming gases (PFB and CF4); Two chemical warfare agents (PFIB and MFA) and a chemical analog of WWII nerve gas phosgene (COF2); At least two chemicals that have widely contaminated the world (PFOA and TFA), one currently undergoing a rigorous safety review at the Environmental Protection Agency (PFOA); Four gaseous chemicals and some components of the particulate matter that are highly persistent environmental pollutants, that likely never break down in the environment (TFA, PFOA, CF4, PFB, and the perfluorinated particulate alkanes); and Four chemicals that are considered highly toxic relative to most other industrial chemicals (PFIB, MFA, COF2, HF). Studies show that the gases that come off of non-stick pans are complex mixtures that vary in composition with temperature. At any given temperature the gas comprises one or more dominant chemicals, and other chemicals present in trace quantities. In numerous studies scientists have studied mortality in rats and birds exposed to the offgas mixtures, but potential long-term health impacts have not been studied. The government has not conducted a safety study of Teflon cookware. Accumulation of the offgas chemicals in food has not been studied. The potential effects to humans of inhalation exposures have not been studied, but several of the offgas components are considered highly toxic to humans relative to most other industrial chemicals. DuPont scientists list the hallmark human symptoms of polymer fume fever as tightness of chest, malaise, shortness of breath, headache, cough, chills, temperatures between 100 and 104°F, and sore throat, based on a survey of complaints registered by workers who were struck by the illness [1]. Based on this suite of symptoms, cases of polymer fume fever from home exposures could easily be mistaken for the common flu.

Regarding: Polytetrafluoroethylene gas (PTFE) From the website: www.ewg.org/node/8299 Avian veterinarians have known for decades that Teflon-coated and other non-stick cookware can produce fumes that are highly toxic to birds. As early as 1986, a Chicago-area expert on “Teflon toxicosis” called the phenomenon a “leading cause of death among birds,” and estimated that hundreds of birds are killed by the fumes and particles emitted from Teflon-coated products each year [1][2]. Although an accurate national accounting of deaths is not available, in a single year this Chicago veterinarian documented 296 bird deaths in 105 cases involving non-stick cookware. Under ordinary cooking scenarios, Teflon kills birds. A review of the literature and bird owners’ accounts of personal experience with Teflon toxicosis shows that Teflon can be lethal at normal cooking temperatures, with no human lapses in judgment or wakefulness. Bird deaths have been documented during or immediately after the following normal cooking scenarios: New Teflon-lined Amana oven was used to bake biscuits at 325°F; all the owner’s baby parrots died [3] [4]. Four stovetop burners, underlined with Teflon-coated drip pans, were preheated in preparation for Thanksgiving dinner; 14 birds died within 15 minutes [2] [5]. Nonstick cookie sheet was placed under oven broiler to catch the drippings; 107 chicks died [2]. Self-cleaning feature on the oven was used; a $2,000 bird died [5]. Set of Teflon pans, including egg poaching pan, were attributed to seven bird deaths over seven years [6]. Water burned off a hot pan; more than 55 birds died [7]. Electric skillet at 300°F and space heater were used simultaneously; pet bird died [8]. Toaster oven with a non-stick coating was used to prepare food at a normal temperature; bird survived but suffered respiratory distress [9]. Water being heated for hot cocoa boiled off completely; pet bird died [10]. Grill plate on gas stove used to prepare food at normal temperatures; two birds died on two separate occasions [11]. DuPont claims that its coating remains intact indefinitely at 500°F [12]. Experiences of consumers whose birds have died from fumes generated at lower temperatures show that this is not the case. In one case researchers at the University of Missouri documented the death of about 1,000 broiler chicks exposed to offgas products from coated heat lamps at 396°F [13]. DuPont also claims that human illness will be produced only in cases involved gross overheating, or burning the food to an inedible state [12]. Yet DuPont's own scientists have concluded that polymer fume fever in humans is possible at 662°F, a temperature easily exceeded when a pan is preheated on a burner or placed beneath a broiler, or in a self-cleaning oven [14]. References [1] Dale, Steve. 1995. “Fatal fumes; while people may not be in danger, the kitchen is no place for pet birds.” Chicago Tribune. March 26, 1995. [2] Daniels, Mary. 1987. “Health debate; non-stick drip pans catch heat.” Chicago Tribune. March 29 1987. [3] Stewart Bob. 2002. Personal communication with Dr. Jennifer Klein, Environmental Working Group. May 9, 2002. [4] Stewart Bob. 2002. Personal email communication with Anne Morgan, Environmental Working Group. [date] [5] Daniels, Mary. 1986. “Stove fumes killing cages birds; overheating coated pans can bring quick death,” Chicago Tribune. March 9, 1986. [6] Hopkins, Steve 2001. “Bird deaths linked to Teflon coating.” Waikato Times. Hamilton, New Zealand. Independent Publishers Ltd. July 11, 2001. Copyright 2001 Independent Publishers Ltd. [7] Kreger Theresa 2003. "Teflon deaths." Email correspondence to EWG. April 2003. [8] Shively Carol. 2003. "PTFE fumes kill family's pet birds!" Accessed online at www.quakerville.com/qic/ezine/96Issue5/qteflon.htm. April 2003. [9] Grahme 2003. "Teflon-related bird information." Email correspondence to Environmental Working Group. April 24 2003. [10] Anonymous 2003. Email correspondence to Environmental Working Group. April 2003. [11] Anonymous 2003. Email correspondence to Environmental Working Group. April 2003. [12] DuPont 2003a. "Consumer products help: Cookware safety. Will cooking fumes generated while cooking with non-stick cookware harm people or animals, especially pet birds?" Accessed online May 10 2003 from http:/www.teflon.com. [13] Boucher M, Ehmler TJ, Bermudez AJ. 2000. Polytetrafluoroethylene gas intoxication in broiler chickens. Avian Dis 44:449-53. [14] Waritz, R.S. 1975. An industrial approach to evaluation of pyrolysis and combustion hazards. Environ Health Perspect 11:197-202.

Thanks Joe! Not to mention common houseplants: I have a few Pothos, really a popular potted houseplant, but it is in a plant family toxic to birds, so they are now all outside. THe only thing I could add is paint fumes, if you paint your house inside any rooms, take your bird to the boarding facility for a week and use an air purifier and open the windows to clear the air of fumes. Oh and space heaters, many of them have some non stick finish inside of them. You gotta be careful with those too. PTFE. Also, a few months ago I bought a bread baking machine only to see that the container you put the dough into was coated in teflon non stick finish. So I returned it. Other kitchen appliances like waffle makers, and the George Foreman grill machines for cooking burgers are also coated with non stick stuff, so they are a no no. For the people who are skeptical about teflon and PTFE, I have a friend who used to work for NASA in Florida, he was a military guy, and he had friends who went to work at Dupont in the 60's when teflon was developed. He told me that while researching and developing Teflon, Dupont lost some Scientists, they expired while testing heated teflon. So, teflon PTFE is really toxic to people also, just in larger quantities. But Dupont did not publicly announce the deaths. What they do, is on any product containing teflon or non stick coatings they put a rider or disclaimer that says: This product is not harmful to humans when used properly. ("When used properly" means when it is not heated over and above temperatures that make it become harmful.) Only they don't tell you that part, nor do they tell you at what temperature it becomes potentially harmful to humans or any other living things. joanne

this a duplicate somehow.<br><br>Post edited by: birdmom, at: 2007/12/11 22:31

Well yeah I have a suggestion, just an fyi. She may have sucked down some water making her way to the trap, you never know she could have inhaled some also. So, if she starts coughing or wheezing, take her into the vet right away. But it could be too late by then, so you may want to get a vet to listen to her lungs now. She could have some water in her lungs. They may recommend putting her on some kind of meds to prevent pneumonia or soemthing. I'm not sure, but htats waht I'd do. joanne

LOL this is funny stuff! I have to laugh altho I dunno how this topic got started....I'm a volunteer newsletter 'editor' for a club I belong to. But I do it for fun, and to be involved. So, unless there is time for someone else to proofread it, it gets printed errors and all. I don't really care but every month the gal who maintains the club website, finds typos and errors and calls me up on Friday night to tell me all the mistakes. Nver fails. Then she sends out Emails to the members and solicits their feedback on my behalf 76$^%^#!! At first I was offended, then I got pissed off and set a boundary with her but it went in one ear and out the other. Now I notice she tells everyone else how to do their jobs too, so I try not to take it personally. After reading this topic I think I can go forward and deal with her by laughing about it. When I go to the business mtg next month I'll keep this one in mind LOL! If she continues to complalin and puts me in the HOT SEAT, I'll advise her to rerport it to the grammar police! LOL Maybe I just need to misspell her name and phone number (passive agression no-no)... And then when she tells me what she wants me to do in the Newsletter, I think Ill reply, "How does it feel to want that?" LOL Thanks! joanne

Thanks. This story brought tears to my eyes. Ouch. Not to mention the harm the prolonged darkness will do to ones vision.

Her handle is DebT, you can look up her profile via Member search. joanne

Please join me in welcoming DebT from Colorado, to the Grey Forum. She is the CAG grey owner of Fawkes. Deb and I both bought our birds in Denver. She is learning to use the grey forum and could use some help. Please look up Deb's new profile and send her a welcome message. I don't think Deb has made it to the Welcome Room yet, but I am trying to give her some navigational tips via private messages. Thanks, Guys!

Okay, we have a game! Alile, Winter, any other names for Dixie's lost birdie?

I think its more important to do it at the same time of day whenever you do it. So, if you begin taking weights first thing in the day, you should continue doing that so you can compare. See?

Yes, he is adorable! That little yellow didy is awfully cute.

Hi Judy, Buddi gets quite a messy beak too and she seems to like it when I wipe off her face. She holds still while I wipe it off with a kleenex tissue but she also likes to try and bite the kleenex, so it's a little game we play...I think she prefers that to wiping it off on a perch. It took a while, I don't think she let me do that for about six months after I got her.