danmcq

Thanks Jay, I have been breeding birds, not greys, for decades myself. The Harrisons link is about parrots and other species as well. Book learning is important. It contains the factual scientific studies done and takes the guess work out of what the issue maybe be when one experiences it. Thus the reason many of us have gone to college and become professionals in what we do. Book learning first, then application and experience to apply it and later perhaps start publishing your own scientific research and development. Regardless of bird breed, egg incubation whether by the birds or in a human incubator, all follow common development in the egg and share developmental issues when things go wrong during that process.

A sip once in a blue moon is fine. But, what we do to avoid our birds wanting coffee when we have it, is we give them hot water instead and they gulp that down. It is more the hotness than anything else about the coffee that they like. Normally any food or drink that we may have, a bird will normally accept an alternate food or drink they like so they can join in on the flock feeding/drinking time.

It sounds like down feathers and yes it is normal.

Thanks Jay. We will just agree to disagree then. Just for informational purposes for others to browse, read and come to an understanding of proper incubation and what can and does go wrong at times causing deformities and sometimes death: http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/avmed/ampa/29.pdf http://www.avianweb.com/deadinshell.html http://www.avianweb.com/birdnursery.html http://www.brinsea.com/pdffiles/Brinsea_Handbook.pdf

Good luck finding another grey that you and family will be able to spend many joyful decades with.

Thanks Jay. Since Dave has been breeding greys for decades, I lean more to his statements on the missing wing bones and the cause. I do know from experience at my breeders over the years, that incorrect incubation can cause many deformities and missing parts in the birds as they are forming. Thus the reason some breeders remove the eggs and place them in incubators and control the process completely. Not hat I am an advocate of all doing this, but my breeders did this do to poor parenting of a few pairs of their, greys, conures and macaws. Some are great parents, some are not.

Jay - Dave did answer your questions, it is not genetics, it is the egg during incubation, I quote dave "A splayed foot can happen in the egg. Actually, it does happen in the egg. Having one wing happens in the egg. They're both malformations. Having a splayed foot is a bone which has grown with a deformity which is in the egg and can happen when eggs are placed in wrong areas by the parents or the egg isn't incubated properly." I have no clue why you are now providing human genetic defect links? Dave answered in regards birds and the cause of foot splay's and wing deformities. Maybe I am missing something in what you are asking?

Thanks for explaining that Dave. Your breeding experience and background is a very valuable source of factual information for us, due to the decades you have spent breeding and raising so many clutches of greys.

In my opinion and observances , infantile/young greys are some what clumsy , as all birds and creatures (Dogs, Cats etc.) are at first. But, once they get their coordination motor controls and synapses built and going properly, it become less and less apparent clumsiness wise and they are no longer clumsy at all. Older greys never allowed to fledge and also that have say talons trimmed flat on the tips will lose grip, slip fall etc. Non-fledged birds are more clumsy due to the mental synapses needed for a well rounded bird never being created by flight at a young age. Even my birds, when the tips are taken off their nails, slip sometimes on a smooth perch due to them not yet being adjusted to the sudden loss of traction. I will quote Sally Blanchard " Some literature states that African greys are clumsy birds. This is simply not true. They may appear to land in a clumsy manner as they grab hold of thin twig size branches on the trees and struggle to maintain their balance as the branches sway with their weight. I think that the ability to hang on to these moving twigs and branches is certainly proof of their athletic abilities. Just knowing some very basic information about wild African greys has helped me to understand a great deal about meeting their needs as companions." You can read her comments on the environment we humans have them confined to and how we can make indoor life a little more bird friendly for them at : https://companionparrotonline.com/AFRICAN_GREY_Caging.html

Congrats Jeff. You are going to have one very robust talker.

What a HUGE step forward! After reading your last 2 posts, Gilbert has indeed shown behavior and the inner need for true closeness. The behavior you described in your first post of him " But, then he starts doing some gestures that look like "peek a boo" where he turns his back and then spins around really fast and bobs up and down excitedly. He is not showing any body language that looks like he is upset. He is talking sweetly all the while. I walked to the far side of his cage and he ran so fast that he couldn't stop and hit the bar of the playtop perimeter with his chest and jumped right onto the floor" describes a grey in loves actions and body language of wanting/needing the loved ones attention. The flip side of that excited and needful behavior, is you do need to be a little cautious, as you were. Because sometimes, they may pinch or nip in the excitement. Both Dayo and Jake act like that when they see my wife enter the room and desperately want her attention and closeness. You have stepped in to the very beginning of the next level in your relationship with gilbert. Slow as you go and only on his terms so he does not feel pushed at all (I know you already know this) but this is HUGE!!! I am so happy for you. You are such a patient and loving parront and set the standard for all here with similar re-homed parrots to follow. I cannot wait to here more of these types of interactions increase in frequency.

When Dayo was young and up to 9 or 10 month old, he would climb down, walk into a box we had on the bottom of the cage and lay down in it with his talons sticking out and take a nap in the middle of the day after playing hard. He will do this sometimes still at night when we are all sitting down and he is getting scratches from "Mommy". He will some times lay down fully on my wifes blanket in her lap and the next thing you know his talons are sticking out the back and he is sound a sleep. Very endearing to see, but happens only rarely and after a very exciting and playful day.

Thanks for this post Sara! Ray - I like that statement as well. Nothing has been said truer!

Thanks Maggie. The site link I provided is very accurate, informative etc. Eating Flower pedals is one of the delicacies of parrots, they savor them. The key in just that one food group is reading, studying and knowing which are safe. I do not want members PMing me about forum topics. PM's are for private messages you don't wish to share with the members of the forum. So, I keep everything open so all members can benefit or comment with their great and additional thoughts, knowledge etc. so we keep everyone up to date and have access to other ideas and opinions as well. My opinion on taking a member to PM to finish what you start in a thread is simply trying to isolate them to just one idea and train of thought. It does not give the member a full scope of additional information and does not encourage them to learn how to research, verify and come to a conclusion of their own and teaches them how to research on their own which is crucial and advisable to anyone learning a new subject, especially one that affects the health and well being of a new exotic creature that is going to live 50 to 70 years possibly. Thus the reason I provide links rather than copying and pasting from sites. There are many schools of thought on diet out there and from very well recognized scholars and experienced parrot people on each species of parrot that requires different diets. This forum is not just for newbies in my opinion. I believe we all benefit from reading, researching and helping each other. Whether we have been a parrot owner for 1 day or 30 years. Information, studies, research by the scientific community is always evolving as time and research progress. I guess to put my thoughts in a nutshell, is I do not want anyone reliant soley upon me. I want to teach them how to learn on their own, form their own opinions, beliefs and take off on the never ending path of enlightenment as they do so. I wish I could live 200 years, because there is so much I still do not know and a normal human lifetime is just not enough, at least not for my ever need to study and learn.

A good overall food break down that I have used for a long time to come up with various mixtures I provide combinations of on different days to keep my flock happy and healthy, can be found here: http://www.holisticbirds.com/pages/foodpp1002.htm It gives all the facts on each type of food. There is a ton of accurate and good information out there on the web I personally use as a reference for changing up the diet which keeps them excited and looking forward to whats on the menu today.

Don't mess with Gilberts shadow!!! I believe you had indicated earlier that he did not like like others in your flock to mess with his shadow either and would chase them away. This is such interesting behavior! He obviously recognizes the shadow belongs to him and that other shadows are being caused by others and is possessive of his shadow remaining untouched. It almost like young children trying to step on each others shadows. I wish they could could tell us what they are thinking at that moment, but I think the body language says it all. Gilbert is display such a huge personality that has slowly been coming out, it is wonderful to read as it opens up a little more at a time. .

The only solution to this problem, is you are going to need to ensure your grey and pug are no longer allowed to get with inn striking range of each other. The grey sooner or later will ultimately end up maimed or dead when the pug decides enough is enough. I have dobermans and must ensure safe distance is always maintained. It is a pain sometimes, but you learn to adjust to this fairly quickly.

I hope your grey is better this morning and the evening went well. They do freak out when an appendage gets caught and many time damage themselves trying to free a leg for example. Please update this thread once you have seen vet.

Swiss Chard is perfectly ok for your grey. It has very high vitamin A, C and calcium nutritionally speaking. Everything in nature has sodium in it. As many have said, it is the balance of all in your greys diet that makes them a very healthy and happy bird. It's not like we or anyone feeds one thing everyday. The diets should be an abundant bounty of many different tastes, textures, colors etc. daily. If you fed your grey carrots, sweet potatoes and red palm oil everyday and they consumed it, they could end up with vitamin A poisoning. Thus, my opinion on maintaining a rich and ever changing daily diet so they receive a balanced refreshing of all important nutrients in a cyclical fashion that will keep your birds at optimal healthy levels.

Shadows and recognizing them are a very high level brain process. I have no clue what goes through their minds when they first notice it, but since we take our birds outside all the time it was evident dayo and jake noticed there's and ours as we walked around. I did label it as a "Shadow" and dayo picked up on it all most immediately and will tell you "See my Shadow". He also moves and watches just as gilbert did as you so well described. YOu know, teher is so much going on in those walnut sized brains that we have yet to fully recognize, it's almost frightening. Thanks for sharing this.

LOL - Well done! Looking forward to Jaws 2.

They will probably never be available here due to shipping time issues and only small quantities ordered. They go from ripe to spoiled fairly rapidly. Thus the reason we all purchase and use Red Palm Oil regularly in their diets.

LOL, the others are right. Get used to anything you wear with your parrot on you to have beautiful one of a kind parrot tailoring done on them. Oh also before you walk out the door, that you check for poop. I have made that mistake a few times.

Ha Ha Ha.... What an entertaining video! I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing this.

Thanks Dave! It is important for all our members to know that and that Red Palm Oil is a staple food of greys, has been for thousands of years, the greys frequent those red palm oil trees and eat the flesh of the fruit through out the day.In fact the red palm (African Palm) was only introduced to other countries in late 1800's. Greys eating red palm fruit in the wild: http://www.arkive.org/african-grey-parrot/psittacus-erithacus/video-08.html