danmcq

I thought I would note the changes of behaviour on Day 3 so others might know what to expect as time progresses after a scary incident. - He has still wanted to maintain maximum height, when not with/on Kim. He will not climb or fly down to any place on his own, except to Kim's or my shoulder. Mainly Kim's of course. - He just started a little preening. Which is the first since the incident. I am surprised he would go that long with his feathers in a mess. Any bird is very attentive normally to any feather being out of place. - When down, he is very cautious and deliberate in each step and movement. Always keeping a very alert stance driven by residing fear. - He does not make any sound or talk at all. He will let a very faint cheep out when he sees Kim. This is not like the chattery Dayo at all. - Kim was able to place him in his cage last night after hours of closeness with him. Once covered, the beak grinding of contentment began. Which is a very good sign. I actually expected him to wish to be in his cage from the first day. Due to that being his home and place of security. But, that was not the case, as I stated in my first post. - Any unexpected or loud noise that he never reacted to previously. Is now reacted to by a noticeable flinch and quick eye to the direction it came from. Every Grey or Parrot is different though and may take longer or shorter amounts of time, than Dayo. But, I would expect most would go through a similar reaction scenario to a horrendous event.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/01/11 19:21

Welcome Tammy and Jim Bob!! It's GreYt having you here. It seems you are comfortable with your Grey being flighted and of course you Grey prefers that because that's what they are design to do. Flight is healthier for them and keeps their cardiovascular system in good shape due to it being designed to function at a very high level of efficiency. It also builds greater coordination, confidence and aerobatic skills a clipped bird will never obtain. Looking forward to hearing more from you and seeing some photos when you get a chance. :-)

Theres a 50/50 chance they will get along. You just never know. Also, a young TAG such as yours is very needful of attention from you, especially more so than a 10 year old CAG. It would be great if you could rehome them and is admirable of you, but you would really need to consider the possible result. You just never know when introducing new flock members. You friend is right in regards them not being a "Pair". At 10 years old they would have paired and the mating rituals observed whether they be actual copulation attempts or the flashy mating displays. The best thing to follow your gut instinct on this one and consideration of the amount of room you have for cage placement, time to spend individually with each parrot etc. Only you can assess those factors and come to a decision on. :-)

OUCH!! Well, your all definately members of this club, as most parrot owners become sooner or later. :-)

At six weeks old, they need a controlled temperature environment as Dave (Our Guru and Breeder) has stated. I know you are excited about your new baby. But, please ensure you do not put that precious baby in an environment that can not provide the brooders with controlled environments, proper feeding of formula and times throughout a 24 hour period, This baby will require late night and early morning feedings. Not just 3 times a day like a human adult, it is more like a human baby that needs to be fed when they cry for food and search for that breast. Your Grey will not be ready for a cage with very low perches until 10 weeks or so old. I hope you have not brought this baby home yet, as you are not prepared and the baby could die in just a few days. I am not chastising you, I am just wanting to alert you and your mom to the seriousness and responsibility of taking on this task, which is really not necessary, since the breeder could do a much better job of thus themselves. :-)

Sheila is spot on. You know your Grey and if you see he is not normal, it is Avian vet time. They hide serious illness very well and sometimes just the clue that they are not themselves is the only warning you will get. If his weight, nares, stools, eating etc. is normal. The behaviour change could be an illness that does not reveal itself through those avenues. As the others mentioned, it could also be a change in environment or lack of sleep. But if there is doubt, as I seem to be reading in your post. Please take him to the vet for a complete blood workup and check out.

It seems you do not presently have a Grey at this time, as I asked in your post in the welcome room room. You do understand, that a breeding pair will not be pets, will not want to interact with you or family much etc.? Breeders are not pets. They are very protective, private and require a place away from all the hustle bustle of a homes living room. They also require breeding boxes and you will need a ton of special equipment and education to go down the path of becoming a breeder. I know you say you always jump in with both feet. But, breeding critters is much more than just having a pet and a ton of responsibility, ethics etc. Do you have any previous parrot or other bird breeding experience at all? Is this more of a possible avenue for income rather than love and appreciation for the species? I know I am asking some personal questions, but breeding any critter is a serious matter. Our main concern here and reason for this forum. Is to insure the proper treatment, health and life long placement of these intelligent sentient beings. They require and deserve a home that is able to provide all their needs both physically and emotionally. We also of course have a very friendly community here that helps as we can and develops close relationship with other members. Looking forward to hearing a much more detailed request and explanation from you. ;-)

Hi There - It's GreYt having you back!! You have been missed and I'm looking forward to your posts again!! :-)

Welcome zazosmommy!! It's GreYt having you here on our forum. You came to the right place for information about Greys and just good friendship with other caring members. :-) A little more background on the biting, when it started, what triggers it and how old your Grey is would be very helpful, as LisaM asked. Looking forward to hearing more from you and seeing some photos when you get a chance.

Welcome Chris!! It's GreYt to hear you have been doing tons of research on Greys before deciding to pursue obtaining one. Looking forward to hearing more from you as this life long journey begins. :-)

Welcome Jennifer and Moe!! You have had a very long relationship with Moe. He sounds like quite a guy and that obviously you are use to being the second preferred person to interact with. Looking forward to hearing more of you two and seeing some photos when you get a chance. :-)

Welcome Louise and Casper!!! It's GreYt having you here. The photos of Casper show he is one nice looking Grey. Looking at the cage in the photos shows it is very lightly constructed and not made for even a small conure sized parrots beak. Casper can bend and break those bars anytime he decides. This could lead to a serious injury to him as the bent/broken bars become sharp spears that can easily pierce his body. It's good to hear you are searching for a more appropriate cage made for parrots. The others have given good advice as did the pet shop owner. A 16 year old Grey that has not really interacted with any human on a close hand held, stepup command level will definitely take a lot of patience and time to trust the new environment and people. As the others have said, just sitting close to the cage, reading, talking and offering treats will SLOWLY build a next level of trust. You could open the cage door and see if he comes out on his own. However, unless he goes back in on his own, you and Casper will then have to go through a horrifying experience. You will be trying to towel him. He will be fleeing for his life from a scary threat and any trust you may have built will be gone and you will need to start over. If he is growling at you. That is the lowest baseline wild animal instinct that lies at the very core of his being. This means it is coming from a fear of you and the closeness at that time and you need to back off, not provoke. When any critter is in that mode, they will bite and do so to inflict as much flesh ripping damage they can to make that threat go away. So just play it slow and pay very close attention to his body language through his eyes pinning, posture and sounds he is making. You will soon be able to read when you have crossed the comfort zone. Looking forward to hearing more from. :-)

Welcome Shaun,Lucy and Alfie!! It's GreYt having you on this forum. Enjoy those baby grey moments while you can. He is very young and needful. I'm sure lots of cute baby panting, cuddles, head scratching etc. is starting to take place. Looking forward to seeing some photos when you get a chance and hearing more from you. :-)

I am glad some of you have gleaned some helpful information here. :-) Dayo is certainly not himself yet, but he is bathing in the return and comfort of Kim and wants nothing else but to be with her at all times. He did actually come over and interact act with me briefly. I suppose just to let me know he recognized my being a part of the flock and to try and pop a button off my shirt. He loves buttons.... :-) Then he ran back over to Kim. I can not describe the internal sick feeling you have for days when something like this happens. It is felt to the very core of your soul as if your own child's life was almost taken. I hope this perhaps takes away any false confidence someone may have. That thinks their other critters will not at sometime have a predatory trigger kick in and just react to snatch that moving, wing flapping thunderous air moving target out of the sky.

Yesterday I had Dayo out most the day while at home from the Hospital visiting Kim. I had a scheduled appointment for windshield replacement here at my Home. When the man arrived to do the work, the Dobermans went nuts (like always) when he rang the doorbell. Rather than go out the front doors and fight back the dogs, I always go out the garage, open it and greet the person if they are a stranger. I ALWAYS tell Dayo to STAY up on his perch and he normally complies. However, The 30 seconds I was out, he flew into the living room whilst the dobies were still VERY ALERT. I heard all Hell break loose inside, with Dayo screaming. I ran back in the House and immediately yelled "CRATE" to the dobies which they went running towards the back rooms. I found Dayo on the Dinning room floor, scared as hell in a defense stance fluffed up, wings held away from his body and beak open. I SLOWLY approached and bent down to him offering the back of my hand for a step-up. Dayo has never growled in his life, but he did at my hand. However I kept going forward because I had to get him up to safety and more importantly check out the damage. He lost 4 tail feathers along with around 10 surrounding smallest of feathers with some down. His right eye surrounding area was swollen but no skin breaks. I carried him into the other room and placed him on his favorite almost ceiling level perching place. I then went back to the seen of the "nail and kill you" spot and realized they first had him by the tail in the entry way, not the dinning room where I found him. He must have flown out of fear from the entry way, tried to turn the sharp corner and banged his eye area on that side. I have never seen a Grey scared for their life until now. They react like any other harmed critter that escapes and finds a place of safety. He would not move from his high perch at all and stayed there all night with all the lights turned out except one very weak night light. If I approached too close offering my hand, water cup etc. He would Growl and stand firm. A peep never came out of his mouth and you would think I was a predator along with the Dobermans. It was almost as if he became a statue and wanted to remain that way. I placed his food bowls, fruit and water up where he perches and he did very cautiously eat this morning, but no friendly stuff. He seemed to gone into a deep fear and depression state of being. I have never observed him so still, quiet and cautious to me. My Wife came home this afternoon (His cuddle muffin Mommy) and I could visibly see his eyes light up and the urgent want of a "Safe" companion they love deeply to comfort him. In the last hour, his shell shocked attitude and lack of what he considered his soul mate for support melted away and comforted him. He was soon giving her kisses on her shoulder, peeping, regurgitating and playing ball with her in short order. So, the observation here is, any critter that experiences an NDE from a predator and is even slightly wounded. Will become completely silent, stay in a safe place and not move a muscle for hours and days until they feel it is safe and they are well enough to resume normal movement. They do not wish to bring any attention to themselves at all until then. They know, being the wild creature they are, that a wounded critter is lunch to a healthy predatory critter. Dayo still will have nothing to do with me at this point. He is still shell shocked and scared. But of course relishes the comfort and safety of being attached at the hip with his soul mate Kim. He will come around, but it could be days or weeks before he is at the previous trust and love level he had with me. I mainly wanted to post this, so others will know the type of behaviour to expect from a Grey or other critter that has been severely scared by a predator, earthquake or other event that they consider a life and death situation. Lastly, never leave your bird alone...even for a second, it can turn disastrous in the blink of an eye.....<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/01/11 15:10

Thank you all for your replies and well wishes. Kim is Home now!! :woohoo: Hopefully with no more emergency trips to the Hospital. The camera is still there, but moved a few inches past where it had been for the last 11 days. She is on a clear liquid diet until Monday at which time we have an appointment to go see her Doctor. We do need to "Watch" for the Camera to come out, but I won't go into that!! :sick: So at this point in time, we have our hopes high that all will go well and we won't need anymore 911 trips to ER. Dayo was VERY Happy to see her. He had a VERY bad experience with our Dogs yesterday and I will post that story on the main forum. He was very close to being the Dogs snack.....

sandra902 wrote: Hello Sandra, A standard Colonoscopy is not dangerous at all and is performed thousands of times a day across the country. It is a procedure that is recommended and necessary for Men over 50 and women if they have a family history of issues in that area. It saves many lives by detecting cancer early on. With that said, Kim is a cancer survivor for 10 years now. She was becoming severely anemic, which indicated bleeding somewhere. They had already performed a Colonoscopy and a scope of the Stomach as well. Both of these came up negative. Thus, they had to see the yards of intestines that scopes could not get to. So they had her swallow an encapsulation Camera that's about the size of a Horse Pill. It takes two pictures every second and transmits them wirelessly to a receiving pack strapped to you that records every image. The problem is the Camera become stuck and would not pass further. This is also a procedure that does not normally carry any risk. However, anyone with previous intestinal surgery or Radiation which causes scar tissue is at risk for becoming lodged to happen. We knew this going in. So, my advice to you, is if you have family history of issues in that area, have the scope performed. The finding of an issue in the early stages far out weighs the slight discomfort for 24 hours of having a scope done and fasting 24 hours prior to it. If it was not for a scope Kim had Done 10 years ago, she would be dead. The scope revealed a stage 2 cancer, which was treatable by Chemo Therapy and Radiation. I just want to ensure this encapusulated camera procedure does not get confused with a standard Colonoscopy and cost someone their life. It is totally safe and recommended for anyone in the above groups I mentioned.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/01/10 14:25

Welcome Kirstewy!! It's GreYt having you here. If you don't mind my asking, why do you wish to breed African Greys? Do you presently have any Parrots or an African Grey? Looking forward to hearing more from you and again, welcome to the forum. :-)

Hello all my second family! Sorry for the delay in updates. It has been a little crazy here with Kim in the Hospital and working from home at the same time as I split my daily time between Hospital visits and work during the day. Kim is still in the hospital and the capsule has not passed. It is looking like she will require surgery if it does not today or tomorrow. They did release her Thursday at 130pm in the afternoon stating the blockage was cleared, but the camera remained. The Doctors thought, to my objections, was it would pass now that the food materials were gone. Well, 12 hours later at 115am we were headed to the ER with Kim doubled over in pain and they admitted her again. Today is Kim's Birthday and it's just sad to see her like this without food for 8 days now, no liquids at all and only an IV drip. She misses a normal life very much now and Dayo along with all our other critters as well. She did speak with Dayo over the phone once 4 days ago, but could not stop crying for half an hour after that conversation, so we decided that was not a good thing to do for her or Dayo. Dayo was also visibly depressed and upset more after the call than before. I swear they are just too human like in nature. Dayo now asks regularly "Wheres Kim"? He has also picked up the Phrase "She's still in the Hospital". That's all I have for now. Know that Kim is appreciative of all your well wishes and that I am too. I will try to be better at updating more often. The weekend starts tomorrow and it will give me the opportunity to spend a little more time here on the forum. Take care all, god bless and keep up the good work as you all always do!! :-)

Dear Toni - It has really been a trial for you after that accident. I am sorry to hear of the continued bone deterioration and necessary surgery to fuse the bones. Do take care of yourself and know that you are in our thoughts and prayers. You will be missed.

Thank you all for your well wishes for Kim. The Capsule is still stuck. They have had her without any oral intake food or fluids since Friday morning. IV drip only. They started her on a "Fluids Only" meal last night, breakfast today and lunch. I am at home working for my job (It's nice being able to login remotely and work) in between staying with Kim at the Hospital and just wanted to drop in and give you all an update. Kim REALLY wants to come home NOW!! Hopefully this will all workout without surgery. The pain has subsided, now the Doctors are talking about sending her home and seeing what happens, before they do a horrendous surgery to remove it. Again thanks for all the great well wishes. I am going to print them and take them to her. :-)

HI and welcome jaspersmum. It could be that your baby Grey would still like a formula feeding or you can use baby food and spoon feed him that warmed. He is still very young and it is a natural instinct for them to call when wanting a "Feeding". Maybe give this a try before going to a vet. :-)

Hi All, Ive been offline for 2 Days and probably will be for atleast another Day or two at best. My Wife Kim underwent a test. It involved swallowing a camera capsule that takes pictures until it is expelled out the other end and transmits them wirelessly to a receiver unit they strap to you that saves each photo as it is taken. The damn capsule is stuck and Kim was in severe pain Late Thursday night onward so we went to emergency on Friday morning. They did a CAT Scan and the Capsule is clearly stuck. They admitted her and have not allowed any food or fluids except intraveinously. They are hoping it will pass. If not they must do surgery. So keep her in your prayers and I'll get online as I can. - Dan

I can not imagine your grief and pain. May God be with you during this time of mourning. The others have expressed the same feelings I have regarding the Breeder. Please take care of yourelf and do not hesitate come come here anytime you just need to talk or need some support.

Awwww, how cute is that? :-) Thanks for posting this and Hapy New Year to you too!!