dblhelix

All these birds present challenges and great rewards. There is no perfect bird, thats for sure! I think with proper conditioning any of them could work. I would continue to research a bit and get as much info as possible before making the life long commitment. Becoming a "parront" should be a serious decision, but its worth it. Amazons are generally much more outgoing and louder than greys. Amazons also become more aggressive than greys when sexually mature and then cycle throughout the year. But make no mistake, greys have their screaming moments/fits and aggression too. Also their are exceptions to every rule, each bird is an individual. I believe a properly conditioned grey can accompany you just fine on outings/meeting new people/new places etc, but an amazon will likely be comfortable with this more easily. So again, continue getting feedback and read up (if you have not already) so you know as much as possible before deciding. Remember, these animals live 50-75 years so they truly are a life long committment.

imran - Yes the amazon was wild caught. But we've had him for 37 years now. He is very tame with certain people (cuddles, head scratches, gives kisses etc), but will attack people he does not know or like quite aggressively! He is and has always been fully flighted. Definitely a personality this one...and very loud! He makes noises I never hear from other birds, likely calls he learned in the wild.

They are totally different pets. From the studies out there, CAGs (birds in general) are way smarter than snakes. African grey are considered on par with primates. They can have the mental capacity of a 4 yr old human and the emotional capacity of a 2 yr old. They demonstrate cognitive reasoning, problem solving skills, tool use and of course the ability to communicate. Some learn words and form their own sentences to communicate. I am not talking about repeating, I am talking about the animal choosing the words it wants and logically combining them. Snakes are very interesting animals in their own right. Very successful from an evolutionary standpoint. They have been around a long long time. I personally have had several (gopher snake, garter snake, ball python). None have even come close in comparison to companion birds as pets, in my assessment.

Looks like Lidia has the honors so far of current members! As I said, we now have an Amazon in the family for over 37 years! He was my grandmothers bird before I was born! I grew up with him. He most certainly was wild caught as was the norm back then. He has NEVER EVEN ONCE been to a vet. We really dont know how old he is, since he was wild caught...needless to say having a parrot for that long does provide a lot of insight, although Amazons are different than greys, there are lots of similarities. Personally I think all the vet visits are overrated, assuming you have a healthy animal on a balanced diet. I guess you can never to too sure. Maybe we've been lucky, but our Amazon (still alive), cockatiel that lived 17 years and budgie that lived 13 yrs were never to a vet. Not sure how I got on the vet tangent...random thoughts I guess!

Tari, I am glad it sounds like all will be fine with the babies. They are in good hands! Regarding your mention of getting good germs from the parronts etc, there is more and more data on the value of letting birds be raised initially by the parronts...no doubt hand raising them helps them bond to humans, but perhaps breeders should be looking into a compromise? May be easier than it sounds, but other valuable things such as proper preening, immunity, foraging (or just accepting foods), fledging, flying, socialization skills etc seem to be instilled by the parronts...makes some sense. Try as best we can, we are not birds and probably can not ever provide them some of these basic skills that bring value throughout the life of such long lived animals. Just food for thought as we continue learning more about these amazing animals (birds) and the best ways to keep, raise them etc. B)

aww, thanks everyone! :blush:

All well put points that I hope we take to heart. The fact that this is even a necessary topic scares me regarding the state of humanity. If we cant get along on an internet forum the outlook on the world is quite bleak, where people have to interact face to face on a global level more and more. That being said, I think we can do it!! We are all part of the solution. Open, honest, respectful discussions are key.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 18:15

First off, how old is this bird? Knowing that is important to determine the best course of action. What diet was it being offered previously? It will likely be stressed for a few weeks in a new environment adding to the challenge. Once they know you and trust you they generally respond well if you lead by example and show them (by eating the food yourself) that it is good...Keep us posted, it is worth the effort to provide a new and better home for a bird. If you stick it out you will have an amazing friend for life.

Very cute. How long ago was that one taken?

I certainly reconize there are negative behaviors that need to be dealt with through mild punishment. Punishment that presents in averse consequences to the parrot should not be used as they will back fire on your goal in the long run. Some recommended techniques to deal with unwnated behaviors are: -evaluate the problem to decide on best action -ask why is the bird doing this? -consider changing the behavior a positive challenge -realize there is often not a "quick fix" -remove the bird for a short time -ignore behavior -divert birds attention when unwanted behavior is presented -minimize your reaction to unwanted behaviors -identify a positive alternative. That is, find something for your bird to do more, not less. There are many more. The main goal is to ensure that even when intervening on a "bad" behavior, make the ratio of positive to negative interactions high. An environment rich with praise, attention and trust will build a better relationship for you both over the long run. Birds generally do not respond well to bullying.

AS Kip talks more and more, I have noticed every other day or so she latches on to a particular phrase and just repeats it like a chatter box. She already has down more than 20 words/phrases very well. The last two days its been: "Good Girl Kip" Before that it was: "I love you" Before that: "Gimme a kiss" and on and on...anyways, what is your baby's current phrase?? :lol:<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 17:33

Today in Mar Vista CA (basically in Los Angeles but near the ocean) its a foggy cool morning...very pleasant for now. Was in the upper 80's on the 4th.

There are many ways to deal with undesirable behavior, the concept of punishment is not one of them for me. They are smart, but we are smarter. Every interaction between us and the bird should be geared in a positive direction to build trust and respect. There are lots of books and articles on this topic. "Laddering" is very specifically one of the old forms of "punishment" that is no longer recommended. If the bird bites you, put it down, in its cage, take a break for 5 or 10 mins. Then resume. The bird will soon learn that if it wants to be with you, the biting must stop. Certainly there are behaviors that are not acceptable and must be extinguished but there are ways to deal with those in a manner that will ultimately build a stronger and better relationship between owner and bird.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 09:27

Glad to hear all is well. Another note, when they fledge (this often starts around 8 weeks) they instinctively DROP weight and reduce feedings in preparation for the very important time when they learn to fly. This is totally normal. B)<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 06:03

Body fluff, tail shake, wing strech usually = happy Flat feathers, tall neck usually = scared Fluffy on one foot usually = content Head down, eyes up usually = sucker scratch, may bite Head down, eyes down usually = sincere scratch request<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 04:37

Kip is short for Kipusa, a Swahili word for "pretty girl". Swahili is one of the native languages spoken in parts of the Congo where our greys are originally from. Her nickname is "Ruby" for the red tail and we use that from time to time just to confuse her! <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/06 04:06

Not I...Kip is just 1 yr 2 months! However, we have a red lored Amazon in the family now for over 37 yrs! Similar life expectancy...will indeed be interesting to see whos got the oldest grey! I believe there is at least one around 18yrs here...<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/05 19:03

Cute pic. Kips tongue is mostly black but I have noticed when she sticks it way out to explore something that the back end I can just barely see is pink!

33 here. Middle ground I guess, lots (hopefully) yet to go, but been around enough to live a bit. <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/05 09:18

It always is comforting to get advice from owners that truly have kept these birds for many years. We can all learn a lot from others and having lengthy experience provides a sanity check to many owners with rather young birds! B) Thanks to all who contribute!!

Kip is a healthy female CAG 13 months old and consistently weighs in at 365 grams. She is a petite little girl! The natural weight range is actually quite broad from bird to bird. In fact, I want to get the aviator harness for her and am having a really tough time deciding between the small and medium. Small would be right if I just go by weight, but perhaps the medium is the better choice since CAGs are kind of thicker bodied/headed birds...:blink:

This is an interesting and related thread. If you have not read this one and are interested in "free flight" then you should check it out B) http://www.greyforums.net/forums/training/13430-carly-in-big-skies-of-wyoming.html#13462<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/02 23:15

Anyone know of rescue centers in the area that will go in and just literally take these birds?? This place should be closed down, NOW. Horrible. In So Cal this place has people that will rescue birds: Parrots First P.O. Box 66223 Los Angeles, CA 90066 Toll Free voice mail: (866) 248-7670 Ext. 5937 their moto: "At Parrots First, parrot adoption, care education and rescue are not a few of the things we do; they are the ONLY things we do." ...maybe we should contact them?

Glad to hear things are improving. Interesting thread with the different takes on how to deal with such issues. Obviously there is no clear right or wrong. Personally I err on the side of being conservative. I would not pull a flight unless the damage was so bad that it appeared there was no choice. Certainly I can see there could be situations where this would be required, but I believe in most cases it is not. In any event, keep us posted on the status and I hope she continues to improve! Looks like that will be the case. B)

Cute!!