dblhelix

B) True Dan, true...we actually are working at automating significant portions of our lab systems now. Basically taking repetitive human tasks for DNA analysis and automating it for high throughput/accuracy etc. We have several prototype robotic systems in house we are working with. Its is very challenging as the business I am in is one of the only FDA licensed in what we do for testing of human plasma, cells and other factors. This makes us very unique and sought after, but also very regulated with high standards to comply with...change requires months to years of validation, testing, and $$! As you said, enough tech talk for now or we'll put others to sleep!<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/08/02 04:44

Well, that is a lot of questions! I am sure you will get many responses as some of the topics do not have clear answers. 1. Generally the bigger the cage you have space for and can afford the better. The bird should be able to spread its wings completely in the cage w/o hitting anything inside. 2. Greys (and all parrots) are climbers. They are zogodactyl, meaning they have 2 forward facing claws and 2 backward facing. this provides better climbing grip and control. 3. Greys like multiple perches, swings, variety. In fact, if you condition your grey properly it can be good to change toys, perches etc around in the cage to keep them engaged. Some are phobic of change, but the more you accustom them to it the better. 4. Most find 1 or more portable perches are a must so the bird can perch in different rooms etc. They like to be where you are and the action is! 5. some like private hiding corners, some not so much! 6. The earlier you can work with a bird for harness training the better. Older birds will be more set in their ways and may be more difficult, but I believe all will come to accept this if you are patient and work with them. The Aviator harness is a great product and comes with a video complete with introduction techniques etc. 7. Many different toy types and changing them regularly is a must for most greys to keep them mentally challenged. 8. Many different opinions on keeping them flighted or clipped. Current scientific data would strongly support at least allowing them to become proficient fliers BEFORE the first clip. I keep them flighted. There are pros and cons to both. There is some very good discussion on this forum regarding this topic, I will post the link shortly and you can use the search function for additional posts on the topic. B)

Wow, they are cute! I am not familiar enough with wild bird species to ID them so young...maybe after they feather out a bit it will be easier, or if you can get a pic of the parrents! B)

Both species (CAGs and TAGs) and both sexes can have the same behavior issues/concerns. It is dependent upon the individual animal and in most cases largely on the OWNER as well. The environment you provide for them, the experiences you allow them to have, the things you expose them to etc have a profound influence on their personality and behavior. Make no mistake, each bird is unique, but you would be surprised how much you can influence them. Also keep in mind these animals live a long time. Avg of 50+ years with some easily 75+. We all have behavior challenges with them throughout their lives, and change often does not come overnite. But with patience and consistency you can mitigate most behavioral concerns. They can be challenging, but thats part of the fun, building a relationship with them and working together on things!

Hi HeatherStrella, Does the redfactor always seem to be present from the same feather follicles, or does it move around as the feathers molt? Very interesting topic, could also have some evolutionary significance...maybe the redfactor birds have a better shot at mating or something in the wild!

Welcome RobertsKitty, I think you have rec'd some great info in the posts above. Definitely good to research as much as possible and try to consider various things about being a parrot owner. Its a life long commitment. Looks like you are doing all the right things! Regarding the cost factor on CAGs/TAGs, I think its simply supply and demand economics. More people want (for whatever reason) the CAGs, so breeders focus on this species and can get away with charging more simply because the market will bear it...TAGs are wonderful pets as well (and one may even think they would be worth more, because they are generally harder to find)...but again its mostly just breeders charging more because they can. :blink:

So far Kip does not show any "red factor". This is an interesting topic. Makes sense that some birds would have this trait...they obviously have the genes to produce red feathers (given the red tails). This gene may be activated in some birds during the production of feathers that are not usually "red". There are cellular mechanisms that control gene expression and my guess is that some birds lack the level of gene expression control that most have for this trait. I would be interested to see if this is completely benign (like some birth marks in people) or if there is a higher correlation with certain health issues in birds expressing this trait. In addition it could be that many greys, during the course of their life, may express this red factor trait at some point. I would also be interested to hear from folks (Lidia?) that have had greys for longer periods of time to see if this trait has been transiently expressed?...B) or perhaps some birds that have expressed this early on in their lives "outgrow" it as they mature? Hmmm...<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/08/02 17:03

Very good point regarding neutral ground. This is not only a useful technique to introduce new people, but also new things. Take them a bit out of their comfort zone and they are more likely to comply! B)

I have travelled to australia and new zealand as well. Beautiful countries, definitely worth visiting. I could imagine living there. Seems to be a nice lifestyle in general and I found the people to be friendly. I agree Tricky, I too could not be "landlocked". I need access to open water. Lakes and mountains are nice and a lot of fun, but for me no substitute for the open ocean.

So sorry to hear of this. Best wishes for a speedy and smooth recovery Mandi. Hang in there, stay positive. All the best. {Feel-good-00020114}

Well it looks like we have an interesting bunch of members for sure! You asked for it, so here is a short book about me: My story is I am an only child. Mother from Switzerland and Father from USA (though his family is from Israel). That sort of makes me a mutt…I spent every summer as a youth in Europe with my Grandparents, so I had a bit of an unusual routine as a kid. My grandparents lived in the German speaking part of Switzerland for many years, then the Italian canton Ticino, then moved to Spain for several years and finally back to Switzerland. Therefore I was exposed to many parts of Europe during summer trips: Switzerland, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, England, Scotland, Whales…I can fluently speak Swiss German, which more or less is a non-written dialect of High German. My first trip to Switzerland was around 1 month of age! So it started early. As I got older I would be “shipped” off to Europe in the summers by myself…travelling internationally etc. I have fond memories of summers in the Italian canton of Ticino, riding my bike with our Amazon parrot “Fipo) on the handlebars, just a few minutes and cross the border into Italy. Eating gelato and pasta at grottos (outdoor restaurants in Italy). I was always interested in science as a kid. My grandmother wanted to tell me about world history etc but my interests have been in the present/future. She often tells me that as a kid I told her “I am not interested in yesterday, I want to know about tomorrow”. That has slightly changed as I have gotten older and recognize the importance and value of the past, but fundamentally I am still focused on the future! My interest, education, pursuit and appreciation of science leads me to be agnostic in my beliefs. Though my mother was Protestant and my father Jewish. I was exposed to both religions as a child and basically reject them all, though I certainly respect people’s beliefs. That is not to say there could not be some “higher” power, but for me to believe with all the different religions in the world that one is right and the others wrong just does not seem logical to me. They are all different widows trying to look at the same thing, none of them are totally right and none totally wrong….ok , enough about that topic. I was on a pre med tract with coursework in college and received a Bachelor of Science in Molecular Biology from the University of California. However, it became clear to me that practicing medicine was not where my interests really are, rather it is in biotechnology and the pursuit of new/novel techniques to benefit humanity. I also have a natural ability to deal well with people. This has led me to work in the field of molecular biology and move into management of a pretty large laboratory operation. I am fortunate that I like my work a lot, get to apply the education I have received and have been provided opportunities to grow. Another thing that has become clear to me is that doing direct research is not something that I would be suited for…Its too focused on the details, I am more suited to multitasking and problem solving. Biotechnology is an exciting and rapidly growing field. I got married last year to my wife Christine and we bought our first house in Mar Vista California. We both love animals, travelling and camping. I own an RV and we like travelling to US national/state parks. We had also Sea Ray ski boat for many years (best boats made!) though we sold it in 2004. Perhaps one day I will get another as I enjoy water skiing, wake boarding etc. With my Swiss roots I am an avid snow skier/snow boarder (though I like skiing MUCH better). Living in California I surf as well. My father lives in Malibu and I lived there for many years so surfing is something I love and try to do as often as I can. I have also been an avid mountain biker since 1988…California has some epic trails available (though the poison oak totally sucks)...My wife’s family is from Hawaii and owns property there. So we travel there at least once a year…but with being married, work, home owner and of course our animals its tough to find free time these days! I cant imagine how things will change if/when we have children!!… We currently have Kipusa (our african Grey) and Scrufflez (a chinchilla). We want to get a dog soon as well. I used to have a budgie “Lucky” who lived for 13 years and was an absolutely fabulous friend. Budgies are amazing little birds, can get vocabs of hundreds of words, are beautiful and just plain great. Having Kip is a wonderful experience and has not stopped amazing, surprising, challenging and bringing us enjoyment. I look forward to many happy years with her and imagine there will be lots and lots of great adventures to come…whew! {Feel-good-00020069}

Kip makes noises using her beak, sometimes grabbing something and sort of "snapping" her beak on it, sometimes just clicking her beak loudly by applying pressure to the upper/lower portions of the beak and making a noise! From what you describe, sounds (literally) pretty normal...

Well given that this incident is now 3 days past the bite does not really look all that impressive anymore! Its more like a paper cut/slice on the thumb. I don't think it is really going to convey the intensity of incident at this point! More over, for me, while getting bitten from time to time goes hand in hand with owning a parrot, it is not something that I am particularly proud of or interested in honoring! Its something I try to avoid... Today again was another day of some minor playing with/handling the harness around Kip. Letting her touch/feel it and some short moments of draping it over her. I will keep this up for a bit and then attempt a complete fitting again. :blink:

Is someone maintaining this list in a consolidated format? Any more questions?? Um, how is it shaping up to try and get Irene to join us for a chat anyways? :laugh:

I think you should go get'em Judy!!! {Emotions-00020075}

Below is a good general link on the issue: http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/aflatoxin.php and this one with nice pics of messed up nuts!: http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fieldcrops/3027.html<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/07/31 03:13

Human grade are safer in the US because they are tested and must not exceed the FDA set limit of aflatoxin (20 parts per billion). There is a lot of info you can read about it if you google "aflatoxin peanuts" or some such combination. However, even with testing sometimes something will get through the system. Obviously since the birds are so small a lower exposure to the toxin can be fatal. Again, there is some risk, but its probably pretty low. If you want to be sure, dont feed them peanuts from the shell...but you could make yourself crazy if you worry too much! :silly:

The flights should grow back the next time they are molted. The molt is generally not something that happens all at once or else the bird would be flightless. Usually each pair of flights (eg the same feather from each wing) will molt at about the same time. This ensures that in the wild the bird would not be flightless and always has balanced wings. Usually each set of flights molt about once every 6 months. So if many were damaged you could easily be looking at a year or longer for all of them to be replaced. From what you write it sounds like otherwise Charlie is acting normal, so hopefully there is no other significant damage, like to the wing bones or anything. Sounds like a pretty nasty crash. Was Charlie a proficient flier? Just learning??

The more diversity you can expose them to at a young age the better off they will be. The more people, places, things, sites, sounds, toys etc etc they interact with the better. This is actually something everyone should try and work on with their birds so that they will be well rounded and accepting of change. This is particularly important in consideration of their life expectancy. The reality is that they may need to be re-homed at some time. That is kind of a depressing thought, but the truth is that most of us have young birds and provided they stay healthy they will outlive most of us!!!

I'd like to know the level of concern we should have for mosquito born West Nile Virus infection and danger for the African Grey. I can of course research this elsewhere, but she may have some good info. This kills many birds every year, crows/ravens are particularly susceptible. Maybe the greys are immune since WNV comes from Africa, as do our greys...

That is GREAT NEWS! So happy for you and Rocky! Hopefully you can take some steps to help reduce/prevent any such recurrences...

The "danger" is the fugus and the aflatoxin it produces. If present this can be toxic to the birds and if the spores are inhaled can lead to asperillogosis. However, in most cases a healthy bird will not succumb to this, but it is a risk. Using human grade peanuts reduces the chance of the fungus being present since the collection/storage/processing is, in theory, conducted according to higher standards. I think it is a calculated risk. I know I have myself cracked open a "human grade" peanut to find it rotted/molded out...these are the ones to watch for. If you use human grade and inspect the nuts before feeding (maybe even crack it open and peek in, you are probably going to be fine. However, I have chosed not to feed peanuts in the shell on a regular basis since I do not want to worry about this. I will say that Kip LOVES peanuts in the shell, so it was a bit tough to basically deny her this treat, but I have found other things she seems to like (such as pine nuts)...B)

Mine likes raw pine nuts as treats. She LOVES them! I just give 1 at a time as a treat when training etc. They are small and swallowed in one gulp. As all nuts, not the healthiest thing, but in moderation better than sweets etc...

Thanks for the account Celery. Its nice to hear how others are dealing with this as well and how it progresses! I have been taking Kip outside in her travel cage the past few mornings. Before I do that I introduce her to the harness and then leave it in or on her travel cage as we go out. I am hoping she will begin to associate going outside (which she loves) with the harness. I also have had a few more training sessions with her, just kind of handling the harness, draping it over her etc but have not tried actually putting it back on her...YET! But its gonna happen soon!! B)

Kip is a DNA sexed female. She seems to have a pretty large vocab already now at 1 yr 1 mo. She uses many voices, mine, my wifes, our friends. We were away in Europe for 2 weeks and had some friends stay at our place to care for the animals...When we got home Kip has several new phrases in both of the caregivers voices. There was a male and female here (couple)...I am not sure this info helps, but really think it is dependent on the individual bird, not so much sex dependent etc.