dblhelix

Hmm, could just be a behaviour to acknowledge when you call him.?. How old is he an how long have you had him?

Afenismom - Hello and welcome. I am glad to hear you went to the vet first to eliminate most of the standard "health" issues that can result in plucking. Unfortunately there are many reasons a bird may pluck and sometimes it is difficult to determine the cause in any individual case. If you can provide more information about the circumstances that would help. How long have you had her? Are her wings clipped? If so, did she properly fledge prior to clipping? Has she fallen and injured herself at all? How many feathers are plucked and is the skin actually bare in the area? Are you familiar with birds and sure this is not just normal down feather shedding? Has she been molting (8 months is young but..)? Has there recently been any changes to the environment like new cage, cage location etc? Has there been any significant changes to whatever routine she was used to, like your daily schedule, the amount of time in/out of cage etc? Can you post a picture? Analyzing some of these things are part of identifying the most likely cause and then deciding the best action to mitigate the plucking. One thing for sure, try not to make too big a deal out of this. Though it can be shocking and create distress for you, if the bird somehow gets attention out of it (like you fretting etc) that may actually serve to reinforce the behavior. Its tough, and you are doing the right things, but to the best of your ability try not to pay too much attention to the plucking. Another note completely, its really tough to read your post due to the purple text chosen. I would just stick with standard text color B) Provide answers to some of my questions above and perhaps some contributing cause(s) will become apparent. Hang in there, you can probably do a lot to help deal with this and others on this forum will have additional info. I reposted your message below to make it easier to read: All the best Hi. I have an 8 month old grey named Afeni and she started plucking her chest feathers out this past saturday night. We took her to the vet monday morning and had her tested, all the tests came back negative. She's very healthy and VERY spoiled. Has anyone else had this problem?? We're worried we wont find out what the problem is before she plucks out more of her feathers. Any suggestions are GREATLY appreciated. THANKS!!<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/05/23 01:08

Hmmm, how long have you had her? How old is she? Is her eating at least stable etc? Either taking her along or leaving her/boarding her will be a stress if she is young and still adjusting to new home/owners...Best to not change environment much for a few months with a new bird until some trust is built. However, if the trip is going to happen either way I would probably vote to bring her along. Show her its ok. Try not to be nervous, that will only make her nervous as well. Whatever you do, tell her its OK and more importantly show her its OK through your own confidence. In general exposing them to new things (car rides, new places etc) is very good. However, you dont want to overload them if they are really still making a major adjustment to new home/owners...Good luck. Things will probably be fine, Keep us posted!

For the Love of Greys is an excellent book, actually a complilation of very valuable articles on many subjects. It is a great resource to have available and I recommend everyone one (particularly new owners) should read/have this one.

Sounds like fairly normal activity to me. You really cannot judge their personality day to day, particularly in the first few weeks. Good advice provided above. If you have only had him home now for a few days the adjustment period is usually 2-4 weeks before they feel comfortable and really show their true personalities. Think about it, they just got pulled away from all that they knew/loved and are now in a strange place with strange people! Give it some time, be consistent, calm, unthreatening but firm. They will test you at first to get a feel for their new home/owners! They will test you their whole life for that matter!! Have fun and keep us posted on how its going! You should be fine.

Patience, repetition, patience, repetition and more repetition. Good advice to purchase books on the subject and educate yourself on the best way to achieve the pet you want. While very intelligent and able to learn an amazing amount, do not expect overnight success. Each bird is an individual and you need to learn its personality to see the areas requiring the most focus for training. These are animals with average life spans of 50+ years. Similar to humans, there is a fairly lengthy development period lasting several years and they are learning their entire lives. Be calm confident and patient! It will pay off, but dont set unreasonable expectations for immediate success. Have fun with your new family member! :laugh:

Hi Tiombe, I think I did respond to the cage query. See the first response in the string you started! My vote is still to leave the wood natural...that is beyond a doubt the safest approach and in my humble opinion, natural wood can be very beautiful (if its a nice wood). The thing is, most if not all birds end up spending time on top of the cage, climbing the outside etc so I do not think its reasonable to think the bird will not get to the frame, even if its on the outside. The cage is something they consider "home" and you want to be sure it is absolutely safe for them. There are certainly other things in the house that if they ate may be bad, but you want to have those things be few and far between that they could get at. Again, the cage is usually a place they will hang out at, both inside it and out...

If the clip is severe the only thing you can do is be very careful when handling him and reduce the chance of him hurting himself if/when he falls or flutters to the floor. You can also handle the bird in areas that have soft flooring etc so if he does fall it will at least be soft. Can you tell how many flight feathers are clipped? You dont want the bird to injure itself and make a bad/fearful association with flight. Have you had experience with birds before? Sometimes it looks worse than it is, but you do need to be careful...another tip, if/when he does flutter to the floor dont "chase" after him. Your first intinct may be to do this but to them they could see that as you coming after them and they already cannot escape as they could in nature due to the clipped feathers. Its tough, but try to let them come back to you, tell them its ok etc and that way they will not associate you with a bad flight experience. Good luck, it should be OK, give it some time <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/05/18 10:11

I think your plan with ensuring the bird is not in the same room you are treating and having plenty of fresh air should be fine. You indicate treating with a spray that you can control where it is applied, not some sort of aeorosol fumigation right? Just make sure the place is aired out completely before bringing your feathered family member back inside! I would leave windows open to ensure plenty of fresh air flow for several days even after treating and as others indicated be sure your bird does not have access to chew on anything you treated!

Absolutely no ceiling fans running with flighted bird out, period. For that matter, bad idea to run one with a clipped bird out. You never know what could spook them and make them fly much better than you ever thought, clipped wings or not. Same is true, clipped or not, regarding opening of doors etc. You need to make it a routine for the entire family to ALWAYS know where the bird is before opening any door/window. Make it a habit to visually locate the bird and open things facing your bird (eg back to the door). Its kinda strange at first but once its a habit it makes a big difference. Regarding wing clipping in general there are many schools of thought and its a unique to each individuals living situation etc. There are some really good threads in this forum already going through many of the pros/cons to clip or not.

Lots of toys is good, provided there is enough space in the cage for the bird to spread its wings completely in a few spots and allow it to sit in most places w/o feathers etc rubbing up on anything. You also want to try and place things to minimize one being directly under another so most droppings make it to the floor! This also helps ensure a clear path in case there is a fall to the cage floor. In any event, lots of toys and rotating them is generally good to keep them mentally stimulated, particularly if they spend long stretches during the day in the cage. Its a good idea to try and keep trying to get them to accept new things. This only makes them more accepting to change in and more tolerant to adversity. If your bird is spooked, keep trying, show them its OK and fun etc. Dont overwhelm them but dont give up either! Remember they live a long time and are creatures of habit so things will not change over night. The more you can work with them to take adversity in stride the healthier they will be in the long run!

Thought it would be fun to see how people named their feathered friends. I bet some people have special stories behind it and others well...maybe ya just threw darts at a board! For us we waited for DNA sexing. Found out we had a girl (as suspected) and named her Kipusa. This is a Swahili word for "pretty girl". We thought it would be fun to give her some sort of African name, using a language native to the region they come from. We also toyed with the name "Ruby" for her red tail, so that is now her nickname... Ruby Kipusa. We usually call her "Kip" for short. Whats your story? <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/05/18 05:17

Can you post a picture? This literally just showed up in the last 24 hrs? If so the most likely thing would be an acute injury (like from a fall or something). Is there blood or oozing? In any event if you cannot confidently determine what it is, I would make a vet appt ASAP. Are there any other symptoms affecting his behavior?

Hey CD - I still see no confirmation on the specific island(s) you are going to...c'mon, dont hold out on us! B) Which island(s) will you be visiting? Oahu? Maui? Hawaii (the big island)? Kuai? or???

CAG stands for Congo African Grey and they are considered the nominate (or main) species. TAG stands for Timneh African Grey and this is a subspecies. The CAGs and TAGs are from different parts of Africa and there have been other "sub" species mentioned as well based on geographic location. However CAGs and TAGs are the two main species referenced today. In fact, on a true biological level I believe they are the same "species" as they can interbreed. However in the wild this is rare due to geographical constraints hence they are generally considered sub-species. CAGs are usually larger than TAGs with a red tail and a black beak while the TAGs have a darker maroon tail and bone colored beak. There also are some differences in the "grey" colors/patterns of the feathers. Both make great pets and overall probably have more similarities than differences. Every bird is an individual so there really cannot be personality generalizations made based on the sub species.

Hi Sultran, Wing clipping is really important to be done properly, particularly with Greys since they are heavy bodied birds. The general rule is the clip should allow them to fly/glide about 15 feet in a downward motion to allow them safe landings. Most greys need custom clips to ensure this based on their weight/physical ability. In general, current recommended clipping standards suggest starting with the first 3 primary flight feathers and then clipping more if your bird is a young determined flier, up to the 7th primary. In addition there are different clips, like 1/2 the length of the flight leaving some barbules or clipping each feather just below the barbules (but not into the live blood part!). From what I have read, ensuring all the barbules are removed results in the best clip as the cut shaft end is sandwiched between the overlaying secondary feather leaving the bird a more satifying process when preening and protected ends that will not poke their bodies. Both of these things if not considered have been linked to feather picking and other behavioral problems. For sure never clip the secondaries and always ensure each wing is clipped in a balanced manner. Once clipped the wings should not need any re-clipping until the molt when new flights come in (~ every 6-12 months). However some birds get ragged ends of the clipped feathers and these may require clean up. There is a lot of information around about this topic and discussion on this site as well. Do some searches for wing clipping and other key words. Once clipped you cannot undo it. If you think the current clip is not optimal it should be OK until the flights grow back as long as the bird does not fall like a rock to the floor. Watch how he does and take care if needed to reduce situations where the bird may injure itself as needed. I would encourage you to keep asking questions, read and educate yourself on the topic so can make an informed decision about what will be best for you and your feathered friend in the future. All the best.

I would be really careful and do a lot of investigating on the stain/varnish being used anywhere on the cage where the bird will have access to chew throughout the day when not supervised. The stain/varnish alone may be toxic if ingested even months/years after it has cured. Birds need and do chew/gnaw on wood throughout their lives. This is a normal and necessary exercise for their beaks. Anything in the house is fair game so they require supervision. I would stay away from anything like that on the cage where he could get at it. My vote is leave the wood natural. Also, what kind of wood is the frame made of? Some woods are toxic as well...<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/05/16 09:24

CD - you will like it. Hawaii is great. That 10 hr flight sucks though :ohmy: My wife and I are going to Oahu at the end of this month. My wife has family living there. Her cousin is getting married there hence our upcoming trip. Maui is my personal favorite Island, but all are special and fun.

CD - When are you going to the land of sun, fun, bikinis, coconuts, pineapples, warm water and alcohol? What island(s)?

Wing clipping is a subject I have some thoughts about, as it is a constant source of debate. There is no doubt that clipping one wing is generally considered far worse than a balanced clip to both wings. Just clipping one wing does not allow the bird controlled flight. Imagine taking part of one wing off an airplane, it does not work. If you are going to handicap the bird (eg cliP) do it responsibly to minimize the negatives of the clip. Bobby Brinker has some really good information on wing clipping, the best ways to do it and the advantages of allowing a bird to fully fledge. Personally I will keep my bird flighted although Kip was clipped when I bought her. The breeder only allowed her 1, One, thats right ONE flight before clipping...So I plan to refledge her and then keep her flighted after the first molt. This is absolutely a personal choice that must be made by each owner in consideration of living situations etc. There are pros and cons to both. However, it stands to reason that birds have evolved over thousands of years to fly. Taking away this natural instinct and amazing ability must have some negative effects on the animal. There is more and more scientific data that supports the value of at least allowing birds to fully fledge. It affects their balance and mental development on a neurological level that impacts them for their entire life. Their urge to fledge as youngsters is so strong they instinctively reduce eating and drop weight in preparation for learning to fly. There is a lot of data now showing that birds who never master "controlled flight" are clumsy, more likely to be insecure and feather pickers. In nature Greys are not clumsy at all, on the contrary they are beautiful, graceful animals. It makes sense that the unnatural clipping could make the bird distrust their very own feathers and pick at them since they cannot trust their own bodies to do what they are meant to do. This can lead to all kinds of emotional problems for the animal. In addition the affects on their cardiovascular system is noteworthy. Their entire heart/lung system is evolved to provide the extraordinary circulation and oxygen necessary for all the energy flying uses. Birds that do not fly have a higher incidence of health problems in life just like people who do not exercise have heart problems, high cholesterol etc. My grandmothers red lored amazon, in the family now for over 36 years, is fully flighted. My cockatiel and budgie both were fully flighted and lived relatively long healthy lives (None of the 3 aforementioned birds went the vet even ONCE!!!) No doubt living with a flighted bird can be very challenging and requires careful assessment to take on that risk. My budgie never got out (if he would he would have probably been unrecoverable). Our Amazon has accidentally gotten out no more than 5 times in 36 years and fortunately each time we were able to recover him, but it is really scary. All that being said, for me the decision is simple when considering all the factors...keep them flighted. Its an amazing thing to see them fly, hover, maneuver. You can tell they were born to do it and love doing it. To me, part of owning a bird is living with and appreciating the amazing gift and beauty of flight.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/05/16 09:04

The thing is, keeping them in captivity is so different from the wild its hard to compare. In the wild they spend lots of energy foraging, watching for predators, courting, playing, mating and FLYING long disntances. While all of them are unique, in captivity many could be prone to obesity (depending on diet offered) since their natural instincts are to eat food while its there. Plus in captivity they do not spend nearly as much energy on anything as they would out in the wild. So, not all of them have the potential based on eating habits, but certainly some do become perch potatoes!

Work out?? What is that????? I used to run a lot but that is so tough on your joints and I started having knee trouble. These days I mtn bike and surf, though not as much as I used to or should. Personally I cant stand being indoors in a gym. I have lots of friends that do, but its all about outside activities for me. B)

This picture shows how I connected everything together better. I set a steel eye at the bottom of the wooden swing, then connected everything up using quick links. I have since added even more hanging toys to this play swing but have not taken anothe pic yet. I also have the entire thing set into a ceiling joist member so I know its not coming down! http://farm1.static.flickr.com/195/486005450_f5288291ab_b.jpg

As I understand most CAGs/TAGs are at breeding age around 5-7 years old. For some birds the exact age may be a bit younger or older. Similar to humans they can be physically able to breed before they are emotionally mature enough/equipped to do so.

Kip loves Grapes. She also goes "nuts" for pine nuts, and of course wants anything we are eating, even if once she gets it she triumphantly throws it on the floor .