dblhelix

Congrats! You should (and rightfully appear to) feel "grey"t about this!! What a wonderful and fulfilling accomplishment. I guarantee there is loads more to come!!

I am so sorry to hear of these problems. Where are you located? What part of the world?? It sounds to me like this may be a very young bird. Can you get a syringe and try to feed him any solution?? Does he act like he's wanting to feed, like head bobbing motions and him grabbing on your fingers with his beak or anything? This sounds urgent to me...

Welcome Binkiesmom! B)

None of my friends share my passion for birds. A few that have spent time with mine over the years respect my passion for them and acknowledge that birds are pretty amazing animals...but they do not have the desire or interest in them to bring into their family.

All good advice here. My concern would be the age and weaning status. By the way fils, "weaned" means the bird is off formula feedings and able to eat on its own. In the wild it means that the bird is no longer directly dependent on the parents feeding the baby through regurgitation. In greys this usully happens somewhere between 10 and 20 weeks of age. Hand raised birds are usually syringe fed through the weaning process with a formula. The bird must be weaned before it will be able to eat other things. Please keep us posted on the status.

Congrats!!! :P :silly: :side: :cheer: :lol:

Wow, 300 kg would be one big bird! Just to clarify, we are talking about grams, not kilograms! The healthy weight for an individual can vary a lot, just like in people. In general, CAGs will range from 350g to 500g. Weighing once a day, at the same time for few weeks is a good idea to get an average. I weigh Kip at least once/week, sometimes more often. She was 350g when we got her. She is now up to 375g. She is on the smaller side for a CAG but very healthy and happy! Try to weigh them at the same time each day. Morning after the big bomb (as Judy likes to say!) is a good time...

C'mon folks...you can do it! More fun if you join, more options on the site. Come on in and participate!

Agreed on the intelligence. Most CAGs/TAGs probably have similar capacity. Certainly there are some variations in potential from inherent genetics etc but a random sample of CAGs and TAGs would probably produce pretty similar intelligence values. Regarding the 4yr college comment (though I realize Dan was Joking)...Graduating from High School, college, pre school really has little to do with intelligence. Schooling is education. There are many people with 4yr degrees or higher that are less intelligent than some folks who did not even graduate high school...but the folks with higher degress are more educated. Does not guarantee they are smarter, but education does give most folks an edge...<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/21 23:28

Generally I do not think trimming nails is necessary and the beak should never be trimmed unless there is an overgrowth problem. Most birds will care for their nails and beaks, keeping them in good order for all they need to do (climb, chew, eat etc). This may not result in a bird that is super "comfy" to have on your shoulder, but I think its better to deal with that and allow the bird to have its body perform properly. General rule of thumb, when your bird is walking on a flat surface, the nails are a fine length provided the front of their footpad is not lifted up off the surface when walking. If Max was "over trimmed" dont worry too much, the nails and beak will grow back in some time. However, if he is falling a lot you may need to adjust the cage with this in mind (padding, lower perches etc) to prevent injury.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/21 19:46

Scales are a very good thing to have and use for birds. When taking weights try to do it at the same basic time each day. Morning, right after the big poop is a good time slot. The weight can fluctuate based on what they have been eating/drinking etc. The general rule of thumb is up to a 10% variation from day to day can be normal, more than that is a warning sign. I would try and weigh every few days for a few weeks to get an average, then you can weigh weekly etc to keep tabs. As a general statement, try not to stress too much about things! The birds can sense your stress and feed off it! Relax, things will be fine. For the most part they are actually pretty hardy animals, though this may be contrary to what you have been led to believe...

It looks like most that are involved are involved in this post too..... :laugh:

The plan is most definitely to leave Kip flighted. Has been since the day i brought her home. Most of you know by now that I have grown up with flighted birds. I am aware and have had first hand experience of the pros/cons. I would certainly not clip my bird(s) to protect some art. If the art needs protecting I would not allow the bird near it unsupervised if at all. BTW, yesterday Kip jumped off her ceiling swing heading for her cage, as she approached it she hovered in the air trying to figure where to land. The she picked a spot and made a nice landing. My experience in the long run is that once the birds know they can go where they want to when they want to they settle down and usually stay where you put them. This can also be greatly influenced by repetition...if they fly somewhere you dont want them you get them, every time, and put them where they are allowed. Its part of training and I look at the whole thing as another way to interact with my pet. There are trade offs, but flight is not one of the things I will take from her.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/17 23:07

**side note** The generally accepted spelling of the word defined as: "1. (of birds, insects, reptiles, etc.) to cast or shed the feathers, skin, or the like, that will be replaced by a new growth." is "molt". Apparently there is British us of the word spelled "moult" with the same meaning! :woohoo: :silly:

Whatever you do you need to be very careful and always supervise the birds closely if out together. Some have success with birds becoming "friends" others not. In all cases the birds absolutely must be supervised. There are ways to introduce birds to each other and there is more information on this topic in other threads on this site. Try to do some searches. You may get different opinions and the value is getting real feedback from people that have experienced this. This will help you understand the risks so you can decide for yourself how you want to proceed! I personally have not attempted to introduce other birds to Kip, but I have read of successful cases and cases that ended in disaster.

There could be something like pheromones circulating in flocks of birds that affect each other. If Tari sees most of her adult birds going through molt cycles at similar times there may well be some type of hormonal influence on the group...As Dan indicated, the factors involved with controlling the molt are complex and not currently well unerstood.

The white skin surrounding the eyes and above the nares can turn pinkish under some conditions. I have heard its like blushing but cannot say that is substantiated. It could be when they are warm, when blood flow changes etc. I have noted this on Kip when she seems excited, but I really cannot conclude it is akin to blushing from the limited observations I've been able to make of this event to date.

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Hello Lovemikka01 and welcome! Some may have success in extreme diet change. However, this is not generally considered wise. Birds have literally been known to starve themselves to death rather than eat foods they are not familiar with. I would suggest creating some sort of plan where you phase out the seeds and phase in pellets, fresh veggies, fruits etc. While it may work, all or nothing could be a real recipe for disaster. Why introduce unescassary stress associated with diet if not needed? Absolutely show your bird new foods, eat them yourself and show how yummy they are. This goes a long way in helping them try/accept new foods, toys etc. Lead by example.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/17 02:44

Stainless steel All Clad pots/pans are fantastic as are hard anodized aluminum Calphalon cookware. We dont use teflon pans period.

Sounds to me like some normal down feather molting from what you are describing. Definitely good to keep watch on behavior and weight, but I would be surprised if something else is going on here. I do not agree with Tari regarding this not being the right time for a molt. Birds will molt at different times depending on many factors and downy feathers usually go through a molt at a different time than flights etc. Age and environment are just a few factors that can influence the timing. Kip is currently undergoing her first major molt of primary and secondary flight feathers. She is a little over 14 months old and right on track/in the right age to have a significant molt. I also recall her shedding a higher number of downy feathers around 8 months for a few weeks...<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/17 02:14

I think the flawed logic is having a false sense of security in thinking your bird is safer clipped than unclipped. The notion of clipping in the US and UK in many people's minds is profoundly influenced by the breeding and bird keeping communities. Over the last 2 decades they have overwhelming professed it is better and safer to keep a companion bird clipped. I believe that as more study and information about the effects/pros/cons of clipping is being compiled the notion of what is generally accepted as "best" is changing. My take after quite a lot of research and personal experience is that handicapping a bird is not likely to be "safer" for it. Almost everyone agrees that a clipped bird CAN FLY. If you accept that, then out the window goes the notion that "my bird is clipped so it cannot fly into that pot of boiling water" or "my bird is clipped so it cannot break its neck flying into a window" or "my bird is clipped so it cannot fly away". I would offer that a fully flight proficient bird is far less likely to fly into the toilet, a window, a pot of boiling water etc...because it can fly and completely control where it is going. They arent stupid. Not to say accidents cannot happen, flighted or not. More over, I have said it before and will say it again, if your bird does somehow escape, you are more likely to get it back if flight proficient because it actually can fly down to you instead of only flying up and away out of fear. We have had fully flighted birds in our family for over 37 years. It can be done, with children and much traffic in the house, doors opening etc. Its a matter of making some adjustments and educating people. There are some risks, but my assessment is these risks are present whether clipped or not. I prefer to make other adjustments to deal with some of these risks rather than alter the physical state of the animal. On the extreme end, in some European countries clipping is considered similar to torture...I think that is extreme, but I also believe that the negative effects of clipping to the animal outweigh the benefits. Particularly since most of the risks associated with a flighted bird can be mitigated quite easily by means other than altering the animal physically. I dont know for sure, but I think most will agree that if you can keep your bird flighted it must be better for them. That is how they are intended to be. You can see the joy they take in flying. You can see the satisfaction they get when preening full feathers. Cutting them off leaves them coming up short on the preen with the inability to zip the barblules together that is part of the natural process. They know something is wrong and they are right. Some birds actually fret over this to the point of self destruction (feather pikcing is linked). Think about it, a bird out in the wild that cannot fly is probably a dead bird and the bird knows it. Granted we are talking about captive birds here but the point is that clipping is doing something directly to the birds physical well being. If anything, clipping is probably less safe and certainly less natural for them. Limiting them to ground travel may be more "natural" to us, but it is not for a bird under any circumstances (unless you are talking of some of the rare flightless birds). It is very unusual that flight proficient birds fly into windows or other things (wild or captive)...flight is their main mode of transportation and they are good at it, but it is a learned skill. I think many people have a subconcious difficulty in understanding flight and maybe even a fear of it. Somehow there is the thought that the bird is safer if we keep them in a non-flighted state and this may just be because flight is so un-natural to us. But rember, flight is completely natural for a bird. Everyone must ultimately decide whats best for them and their pet given the living conditions etc. If you are going to clip there are ways to do it that minimize the negative effects. Such as not over clipping, cutting off ALL the barbules and cutting them at a length such that the cut end is covered by the tips of the secondary flights...Clipping is not natural....neither is keeping these birds as pets. Go figure.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/17 21:14

Welcome Lasfloresdrive! Lots of good info on this site and people willing to help...do you live on Las Flores drive in Malibu?

So we have been letting Kips flights grow out and she now has 4 full flights (of the seven that were clipped) grown in on each wing. She has been flying more and more, becoming more confident and controlled as she discovers her wings and learns how her body is supposed to work! She is also undergoing her first major molt with lots of different feathers dropping off and pins coming in. This morning I had her in the bathroom with me while brushing my teeth. She shook herself on a small perch I have for her and the perch shifted from her motion. This scared her a bit and she took to the air. The bathroom is a fairly small space...she elevated about 3 feet, made a tight circle to avoid crashing into the shower enclosure and came back towards me. I put out my hand with the index finger extended as a landing pad and she neatly and accurately landed right where she should on my hand! It was great!! She seemed proud!!! <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/14 03:22

I dont agree with the vulgarity, but I also do not agree that because she knows a bunch of curse words she's a ruined bird. I have not watched all the videos, but just because someone taught the bird vulgar language (and maybe encourages it) at some points in the birds life does not necessarily equate to a negligent owner. The owner that teaches nothing but curse words may be a more loving, caring, patient good owner than any of us. Probably not, but my point is we dont know enough simply from watching the video. However, such vocab truly could make it challenging if/when the bird ever need to be rehomed, cared for etc. But thats not the birds fault and hopefully people would see past that. In addition, I would not write off this bird as a spoiled dough batch simply because it was conditioned to use foul language. That is not the birds fault at all. In fact, my budgie learned a whole bunch of offensive phrases when I lived in dorms/appts in college. Honestly everyone thought it was a hoot at that stage in our lives when the tiny little bird would bust out with "Go F yourself" at the right time in converstations etc. Dont get me wrong, I disagree with teaching the bird such extensive vulgarity and have previously stated we are making a concerted effort to prevent Kip from picking any up, but clearly that is not the whole picture here.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/14 03:25