Dave007

"""""I think the entire bird has a distinct odor, it differs by species too. Its kind of musky. I love their smell""""' Hmmm, tell me, does your better half know about your unusual attractions and preferences of bird odors? Hmmm, yes, this is a very unusual case study. It will definitely be looked into at the Clinic of Disorders University.

Judy says ""I imagine Dave's lips are sealed, LOL"" No, they aren't. siobha9 asks ""So now tell us honestly - we are all friends here - did you agitate the bird into biting the kid???? """" No, I didn't agitate my birds into biting the kid or in this case, kids. As with every other visit, I told her to control her kids and stay away from the birds. As with every other visit, the mother didn't heed my warning. I simply left the cage doors unlocked. I didn't swing the doors open. As with every other visit, they annoyed the birds and as with every other visit, the birds jumped to the door to retaliate. This time, when the bird did that, the door opened up allowing the bird to continue retaliating. I wasn't in the room. I don't know how to agitate a bird in order for that bird to go after someone. The kid continued and the bird flew over to kid's shoulder and quickly bit her nose and actually tried to bite her again. I came in and took the bird off her shoulder and recaged him. Am I sorry that she got bitten? I'm only sorry that she didn't get bitten twice. I have a friend who has a girlfriend who has a son. My friend has a dog. When he and the girlfriend were together, this kid had a bad habit. He used to pull on the dog's balls. The kid thought this was very funny. The dog growled alot. The kid was told to stop doing that because the dog might bite. He didn't heed the advice and constantly grabbed the dog's nuts. One day, the dog was in a bad mood, the kid pulled on his nuts and the dog turned around and bit the kid on the hand and made the hand bleed. The dog then had to be tested for rabies which was negative. As far as I'm concerned, the girlfriend should have been the one responsible for the cost of the rabies test. He's still my friend but he broke up with the girl. She was immature and an a*sho*le

I personally think that my cages you see are more than adequate in size. The size not only accomodates greys but also medium/large cockatoos --amazons and any other bird in that size catagory. The approx size cage for birds that size should be 32x24x55. That size can slightly vary a bit, but only in inches. My opinion about dome cages may differ with others. I suggest non-dome cages because of the features my cages come with which is a playstand top, another slide out tray, removable skirt and the natural wood perches in the cage and on the playstand. They don't use the smooth, straight perches that come with other cages. It saves a person the job of going outside and looking for a tree branch. More toys can be hung from a flat roof than a round roof and they can be spaced far apart from each other. Flat roofs also allow the bird to cover more area when walking upside down. Of course, the choice is yours.

Barbie---I sent you a PM in order to make it easier to locate the company.

I can vouch for them 100%. As a matter of fact, that company should send me a free cage because of all the business I sent their way. As of now, I know approx 35 people including myself who've dealt with Demsond and there's never been any complaints. BMustee also deals with EBAY cages and she only has good things to say. The powder coating is excellent. The welding is very solid, sturdy. Cages are rust proof. The cages are open proof but if yiou have a very intelligent bird, they can finally figure a way to do it so the company supplies a tiny slip which attaches to door. It prevents the bird from sliding the bar.

Never throw away the Aloe. Put the mister filled with aloe and the jug it came in into the fridge. A 1 gal jug should last at least 6 mts or more. It doesn't go bad. The worst thing that can happen to a jug of aloe after about 8 mts is that it thins a bit. Time to get another jug although the thinned out aloe is still good to use.. If your birds' feathers get back to normal, continue with aloe at least once a week. You say it was expensive? Check Walmart or Walgreens or Rite Aid. The price of one gal varies between $8 to $10. The secret is easy, relaxed spraying, doing both birds the same time whether or not the other bird needs it. You never can never over *aloe* them. Check out the people here and you'll see that they use it for general bathing. No feather problems. Read the board here and make your own decision. At first, your birds won't like being sprayed. Many don't, but just persevere. They will get used to it and will eventually only give out a little growl. Oh yes, eyes--it won't hurt the eyes or face at all. I always spray my birds' body, head and face. They don't even blink.If ingested, they'll be no problems at all. It isn't toxic. To the bird, it will taste like weak orange juice. One other thing about the bird that's now plucking---after the misting or bath, don't towel dry. Let the bird stay soaked. The aloe will moisturize the skin. Afterward, the bird willl start to productively preen.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/13 00:27

Although this is the off-topic area, I had a similar problem with my's wife's sister. She has 4 children and constantly visited our home. Each visit 3 of those 4 children insisted on tormenting my greys. Over and over and over. I gave her many reasons for not letting them do this. She laughed. Out of respect, I spoke to my wife about it. She was equally angered by what was happening. 2 of my greys were extremely leery and nervous about those kids. They poked and prodded and tried to pull tail feathers out of the birds. Eventually, after those visits, the birds were constantly upset, nervous, hyper and short tempered after each visit. Nothing my wife said to her made any dent in the situation . The sister thought that the kids were just being kids and never reprimanded the kids. BUT, she had a dog and if anyone were to act aggressively towards that dog, there would be hell to pay. Basically, her kids were spoiled little bastards. So, I took my wife aside and told her that because nothing had changed, I was going to do things my way short of spanking them. My wife knew I was really pissed off and didn't dare ask me what I was gonna do because she knew I was at my wit's end. Personally, I didn't give a s*it about her relationship with her sister anymore. My house, my rules, my animals. So, the day came that she was visiting with those snotty little bastards and I decided to leave 2 of those 3 cage doors unlocked. Sure enough, it started all over again. This time however, one of those kids picked on the wrong bird who instantly pushed the door open and flew on this kid's head and put a hole right through the bridge of her nose. Screams and some blood was present. The sister was extremely angry and actually accused me of agitating the bird into doing that. Actually, I was in another room when I heard the screaming. Long story short--I never apologised, I told her not to come back, told her that she wouldn't be allowed to come back unless she apologised to my wife. I also told her that her kids weren't welcomed in my house. I told her what I thought about the kids but more importantly I told her what I thought of her. All of these words weren't nice but were descriptive. That kid wound up with one butterfly stitch on the nose and my only sadness was that I didn't do it sooner and I was happy that I did it and if I had to do it all over again, I definitely would. That bite taught all those kids much more disapline then the mother did. After 6 mts she did apologise and came over but those kids were never allowed in my home again.

Some African Greys who lightly pluck their feathers may increase that plucking if they feel insecure about other birds in their household. I'm not saying this absolutely applies to.your bird. Basically, it's a MAYBE. Some greys perceive its bonded person may be paying too much attention to another bird so it may start plucking to bring the owner's attention back to it. Greys can be very competitive animals and will do anything to keep their owners' attention on them. This leads us into secondary reasons for feather mutilation. Most people don't realize that there can be more than one reason their bird plucks or bites its feathers. What may have started from one reason can easily turn into a far more difficult problem when the bird realizes it can always get its owner's attention by plucking. I have seen many birds who continue plucking after the original reason to pluck has been resolved, simply because they know they'll get some sort of constant attention. At that point their owners are completely in the dark about what might be causing their bird to pluck, since they can't relate the plucking behavior to any particular event. The constant attention varies. Some people yell at their birds when they see them pluck feathers. Others walk up to the cage and tell the bird how pretty it is, hoping to praise it into stopping its plucking behavior. Some admonish the bird with a stern voice, while others become upset and concerned, allowing the bird to see their concern. Whether it's yelling or just thinking about the bird plucking, all are success stories to the bird who craves attention by pulling out its feathers. My advice is simple. If the bird indicates to me that it's plucking feathers to gain attention, I would at first walk away. Many birds will only pluck when they see their owners watching them or when the person walks into the room, knowing the humans start worrying when they see the bird pull its feathers. Other birds will constantly pluck because of irritated skin or dry room conditions or being too close to heating vents If your bird plucks to receive attention, you should increase the amount of attention paid to it in a focused attention manner. The parrot needs to learn that it will get attention for certain behaviors, however, not the plucking behavior. I tell some people to transfer their praise and attention to something their bird does that isn't destructive, teaching the bird to use that positive behavior to ask for attention, rather than pulling its feathers. Simply removing attention from plucking by walking away or ignoring the feather mutilation is not enough. The bird still wants attention and will do whatever it needs to get that attention. Many Greys have cute tricks they do or phrases they say that please their owners. Deliberately rewarding these cute actions with praise and attention often teaches the bird to perform the cute act, rather than pick its feathers, for attention. Misting--you say that the bird hates misting. Well then, try to use 1/2 squirts. Get as close as possible to your bird. Aim for the feet and slowly work your way up to the breast area. Don't worry about the wings. They're waterproof and any fluid that gets on them will just slide off the bird. Don't mist the bird's face. 1/2 squirts won't splash the bird all over the place. Constantly adjust the nozzle on the bottle so that the spray doesn't hit large areas. A little spritz here, a little spritz there. The breast, lower neck and in between the wings and body are the most commonly plucked areas. Mist often, everyday if possible. The bird will fear it less and less. Many people here use aloe but the most important thing here is that you get the skin soaked whether it be aloe or water. Greys are well known pluckers. My opinion about the pictures of your bird? In my eyes, the bird's problem is still in the minor stage but it can escalate. Deal with the problem now. Also, it would be in your bird's best interest to spray your other bird at the same time so that he doesn't think he's being singled out. Just my opinion but I've seen it work in the past.

""""""" I go over to him and tell him shhhh because its a routine at naptime.I ask him what it is he's trying to say beneath his breath.""""""' So, you have a talk with him. Well, what's his response? Does he give you a good specific explanation or is he just trying to fool you? Does he tell you what his reasoning is? Does it sound legitimate to you or does he just turn his back to you?

I have the same sized cages as BMustee. All were purchased on EBAY. Each are the exact same cage, The only difference is color which the buyer picks out. I've told many people to check that area. They have done that and purchased all different sizes and styles of cages. When purchasing a brand new cage from EBAY you're able to see ever aspect and angle of the cage, the total description, the components, pictures of it, the price of the cage, the S/H, the warranty. There are 4 major companies that are selling on EBAY. One of them is outstanding. What's the major difference in the cages sold at stores and EBAY? The cages that come from stores are highly priced for one major reason--all have a brand name on it. The cages on EBAY don't. The cages I always purchase are brand new, in the box cages. It's deleivered in 2 boxes--Each cage weighs approx 145 lbs, is moveable, has skirts. There are different sized large cages sold there too. The largest is made for macaws, the next size down is made for medium to slightly larger birds such as Congo, Amazons, Medium Sixed Cockatoos. The cages are very well made and have all the same material that brand name cages have. Style---For CAGs,TAGs, I believe that getting a domed cage isn't the perfect style. The roof should be flat because the bird likes to climb on the roof upside down. Another plus about the cage I'm talking about has to do with defecating. The bottom of the cage comes with a tray as all cages do. The top of the cage aqlso comes with a duplicate tray. Both are slide outs The bird can be on the cage's playstand and take a dump and it goes in the top tray instead of through the roof. Before you judge my post here, check out what I'm saying. Go to Ebay. There's a section that asks what you're looking for. Type in Bird Cages. When it opens, on the lower left of the page you should see 3 or 4 companies. Click on the one that says Demsond. When it opens click on BUY IT NOW. THis is the new cage section where a person can buy without bidding. Scan the many pages of cages and look for the same style and size cages that BMustee and myself use. This a picture of 3 identical cages. Each was $189 which included S/H. Delivery takes approx 7 to 9 business days.All of these cages pictured are between 7 to 10 yrs old. This a good place to purchase a cage for first time owners and owners who are thinks about another bird PS, in these pictures all the upper trays were pulled for cleaning. PS--My Timneh which can go into the next sized smaller is on the same sized cage as the others because the price for the smaller cage and the cages in the pic wasn't much different. Maybe, $20. and I'm a fan of *the bigger, the better* The Timneh loves the cage as do the others. True, the cages aren't fancy as some store bought cages but my birds never complained plus they'll mess up a fancy cage as well as the ones pictured. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/12 18:47<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/12 19:04

I agree with Chapala. Grabbing a bird is a very bad idea. That will force a natural instinct to bite even if it doesn't know it has that ability yet. A bird who is a new place for only 8 days has many, many things to get used to. Everything is new, strange, confusing including people. It takes a long time to get used to things and feel comfortable. Your bird needs to learn about the cage, the toys, the perches and everything that's new to him. Don't mistake him taking food from you as being totally comfortable with everything else. All birds will take treats much sooner than trust people. Look at his cage as his new home. He needs to thoroughly learn everything about his new home first. He needs to see regular habits that always go on in the house. You have a CAG which is the type of bird that's very leery of all things that are first introduced. Even after you've had your bird for a long time, you'll see that he/she will be very leery of new things such as toys, moving things to different places in the cage, adding new things to playstands etc. TAGs are quite the oppposite. As others have said, patience, patience, patience. No time limits should be put on things that YOU think should be happening but aren't. He'll eventually show interest in you when he's ready and you'll definitely see that happening. What you should keep in mind that as you said, he's a new baby.

Anyone ever hear if FEDEX and UPS ships birds? I never did. Was speaking to a person on IM and he told me that he was buying a grey and having it shipped. He mentioned the 2 postal services. I suggested Delta Airlines. Bird would coming from CA to IN.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/09 22:10

Go to a pharmacy or any store that has a pharmacy dept. such as Walmart and purchase 100% Aloe vera gel. Never use any salves that have chemicals in them on birds. Use a small amount.The gel will quickly sink into the bruise with no after effects if the bird ingests it accidently which isn't likely considering where the bruise is located. The gel is a good item to have around the house and will last a very long time. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/08 20:22<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/08 20:32

When a bird is getting ready to relieve himself, he'll squat just slightly and flick his tail in an upward motion. Observe him in his cage so you can begin to recognize the movement he makes when getting ready to "go." (Note: Before a bird can be "potty-trained," he should be familiar with the "step-up" command, in which he steps on to a perch outside his cage. If your bird doesn't consider time out of the cage with you to be a treat – as opposed to a scary experience – training your bird to eliminate on command will be much harder. Keep track of the frequency at which your bird needs to do his business, so you can approximate how long it will be before he needs to be taken to an appropriate "relief station" – a corner where a catcher or folded newspaper is placed. It can even be a small trasg can. Remember that younger and smaller birds have to go more frequently. Birds who've just taken a shower or who have just consumed foods with a high water content also have to go more frequently. Birds, after all, excrete "urine" (known as urates) and feces together. The major dum[p is in the morning. The feces has lots of green color and is more solid looking. Compare that to defecating. For the rest of the day, the amount each elimanation will be much smaller, more liquidy and the color will clear to white with a tiny bit of green in it. Those much smaller amounts during the day can be compared to urination. Once you've figured out his habits, pull a chair up to your bird's cage and get ready for the next step. Just as the bird begins to take a dump, give a verbal command – something like: "good bird," said in a quiet, pleasant voice. (Any command is fine, just so long as you use the same word(S) consistently in the same tone of voice. When your bird relieves himself – with luck, timed perfectly with your command phrase – say "good bird," open the cage and take him out for some quality time and maybe a treat. After about 10 to 15 minutes, place your bird back in his cage and wait again. When he begins to "go," say the command, praise him and take him out of his cage for more playtime and another reward. After a few of these sessions your bird will begin to catch on. From this point on, never remove your bird from his cage until he relieves himself. This takes patience and you may have to wait a half an hour or more, but persistence pays off. Your bird will begin to recognize the command in a matter of days and will associate going potty with being able to come out and play. He may even begin to go potty when you step in the room, in anticipation of playtime. Once you find that your bird is going to the bathroom consistently in his cage with your verbal cue, you may try it at other locations. If you're watching television, keep a catcher near the couch. When it's about time for your bird to relieve himself, hold him over the catcher and give the command. Give him some time and be patient. This new situation may scare him a bit; but with patience, you can eventually hold him over a catcher or, if you have a smaller bird, over a paper towel. If you're consistent, this training can take as little as three days. Your bird can go all night without going to the bathroom, but birds wake up with the sunrise, and he'll need to go with the first light of day. When your bird is very stressed, he'll go to the bathroom much more frequently and is less likely to obey your command. Be patient. Try to use verbal praise and attention as the reward for this command. Birds are vain creatures and if you tell them they're good and wonderful and beautiful in a gushing, praising voice they'll respond to you. Keep food rewards small, such as 1/4 of a Cheerio or 1/2 of a sunflower seed or a bit of a peanut. PUNISHING DOESN'T WORK WHEN HOUSEBREAKING BIRDS. It's your responsibility to get him to an appropriate place to relieve himself. He won't understand "bad potty." If you have a flighted bird, you may be able to become really advanced and teach the command "go to your cage" or "go to your perch." Then, once your bird arrives at the appropriate location of his own accord, you may give the command "go potty." The key is patience. Prepare for trial and error and MOST IMPOERTANTLY, really think heavily about whether you want to do this. Some people prefer to have their birds defacate in the cage. It's a matter of choice. If your bird will eventually be trained, it's a procedure that will take a long time to undo.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/08 18:22

BMustee, Just in case you didn't realize this, you might wanna use it for future reference concerning breeding your finches. Many species can mix together and each species can breed while other species are in the same area but Owl Finches are known to have aggressive tendencies during the breeding season towards other finch species. Many people I know who have different finch species have said that the Owl Finch may not be ideal for a mixed collection. Just thought you might like this little tidbit of info.

Many greys prefer cold water baths and misting. When I say cold, I mean cold, the brrrr type of cold. It would be better for you to use room temperature water for drinking. That lessens the bird's desire to jump in. Also, it would be best to take a bird's water bowl out of the cage after bathing. They have a very bad habit... after a nice, thorough, successful bath, many like to immediately jump into the bowl to bathe even though they're soaked. Keeping the bowl out until the bird is completely dry lessens his desire to mess up the cage, floor and walls afterward. The basic description and desire to do this? It's called *being a pain in the ass*

I'll respond in a more serious way because this is my family group. Many people here have grammatical problems. Many people here don't habe that problm. I don't believe that picking out certtain misspelled words means anything because the one most important thing that people do here is to practice how to get their message, reply or original post across in a meannggful, understandable way. The quaality of the content is much more important than gramatical mistakes. People here have much more imporntant things to do in every day life. If a person was standing face to face with these same people, understanding them would be no prolbem. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand people's different replys or posts, questions or answers on this board. I don't believe that people should be reminded about their lack of gramatical talents or evven how they exxcel in this area. If a person lacks talents in certain areas of spelling, then who cares. The intensity and feelings of people's posts can be very easiy seen. Some people lack the talent of correct spelling on a keyboard but excel at the art of verbal communication. Some can't express themselves verbally but do excel with a keyboard. Should people be reminded about their lack of verbbal communication? I doubt it. I'm fluent in 2 languages. Does it mean anything important here? I doubt it. What would be cruel is me replying to people in a diffent language. So, my point is this...grammar police aren't nesacary in an area where the understsing of communication has been extremely sucsesful. Notice that I intentionally put in misspelled words but I'm positive that people will understand this post word for word. We are a family and we really do understand each other's message. Correct spelling is way down on the list of things that have to be corrected or reminded of. PS--there are also many people here from foreign countries who have their own way of spelling and I don't believe that they too haven't mastered our english language but they make their point very clearly.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/05 19:55

One other thing to calm your bird down, have the bird out of the cage when she cleans it or puts food and water in. That way, he won't be forced to bite her. Lots of people have to have their birds out of the cage when doing things there. It'll also make him relax and if he does attack, she'll have time to move away without doing it in sudden movements. As others have said, greys don't like kids so when they're around, cage the bird and tell the kids not to mess with them. If a kid gets bitten, believe me, that kid won't own a parrot in the future.

It won't get fleas or ticks but it can get mites. The fleas you found came from a different source or area.

1---he sleeps all day 2---He will no longer talk 3---He will just sit on his perch like he is attempting to hibernate 4---He seems very subdued 5---almost as if he is in a state of shock 6---will no longer get onto my hand. 7---He won't leave his cage voluntarily. All signs of a variety of illnesses You need to take your bird to a vet immediately 2 weeks of all these signs warrants a vet visit. Your bird needs to be checked out. Those signs above describe possible bacterial problems but don't wait around for guesses or possible solutions here. Medication might have be given. Make sure there's no drafts near by. Keep area fairly warm--nothing under 72 degrees. Go to the vet describe the problems in detail. He's the only one that can know what to test for. Good luck and keep us informed. Good luck

The cage doors are always left open but are closed at night. They all sleep at the same time and eventually go into their separate cages approx the same time. The TAG is usually the last one in his cage because he's looking for a last pet from my wife. The bird room that you see also houses my PC and at night the light is dimmed and they all head back to their cages cause they know daytime is over. I don't worry about them flying erractically all over the place. Other than flying around with each other, they constantly fly to my wife or I for attention and getting petted. All have been trained to land on us, not walls or curtains or windows. One of my greys loves my dog. Look at the dog's tail. We were baby sitting that pain in the ass Yorkie,

Not really. They all get along when they wanna get along. The CAG in the middle cage likes to have mock fights with the TAG. They never hurt each other but they're always locking beaks and like to nip and chase each other. The CAG on the last cage pays little attention but is friends with one of the quakers(male) and they go at it too. The other quaker likes to be the policeman with all of the Greys and enjoys nipping at all of them.

When the 2 quakers wanna be together, that's possible in a neutral area even though they don't get along. Each has the option of going back to it's cage

"""""If I was sucessful in having them share a cage, is it likely or even possible that they will start to fight when they are adults? """""""" When CAGs or TAGs get to the adult stage, many develop intense jealousy, possessiveness, possible aggression and intense aloofness. People misinterpt that aloofness for unfriendliness which couldn't be farther from the truth. Greys develop into very independent birds. They enjoy being alone so that they can stare and think for hours and relax, preen, nap etc. They don't appreciate people who interrupt all of that aloneness. So, would they appreciate another bird doing that? No. When out of a cage and doing all those things above, you'll always notice that parrots find places where they can be by themselves with no interuptions or distractions by other birds even if they're all in a large area. Not every bird does all of these things at the exact same time. Is it possible that they will fight? There is no absolute answer to that because of how totally individual their personalities. The first and most important thing I would do when bringing a new bird in is to make sure that there's a cage for each. I just took these pictures for you and I'll explain each one. Just understand that I'm not trying to give you a hard time and I apologise if it seems that way 3 cages--3 Greys---1 TAG and 2 CAGs. Each relaxing on it's own cage. None wanna have any contact with the other Middle cage--CAG is in the cage relaxing--does'nt have any desire to come out even though he's doing the same thing as the others 2 other cages--2 quakers--each has it's own cage because even though they were friends as babies, they no longer get along with each other. They used to live together. Today, that's impossible. Notice that the larger cage can easily house the 2 quakers. None of these birds want to be together right now ( greys). If they did they want to, they would be together. All of these birds are adults and developed their own personalities. So, all I'm saying is that it's impossible to read the future and give you an accurate answer to your question.

Forgive me for my reply here. I assume each bird is in it's own cage right now? Exactly what is the reason for putting them in one cage? I think you're right about one thing--"""I worry about what would happen if they were stuck together.""" The magic word here is STUCK. Most birds are happiest when meeting on neutral territoy which yours do. Most birds are happiest when they have their own area to go back to without another bird in the way. Most birds can develop better, more complete personalities if they're alone. Every grey has a distinct personality. The only thing they have in common is the color of their feathers. What you've got going there is an ideal situation for individual personality development. You talk about *discarding*. I assume you're referring to *bonding*. Any bonding that develops with a single bird and it's owner is an accomplishment. Having that happen with 2 individual birds is outstanding. Losing those bonds isn't a happy situation for anyone when it does occur. Read the loads of posts here that ask how to make a bird friendliar, more affectionate etc. I forget what you said the reason was for spliting that cage in two. Was it space? You've already got 2 cages there and you've seemed to have adapted to it. Do you feel that your 2 greys will be happier when put together? To a grey, their happiest time is to come out of the cage and meet up with another bird. They play, relax, chew, romp around and then they wanna go home. Things are developing and going in the proper direction right now with your 2 birds. You should remember that eventually, greys will become adults and a very young grey is totally different than an adult.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 21:19