Dave007

Love at first sight.

That's about it in a nutshell. When it's time that they show that they've had enough of each other and one doesn't agree, you're the adult that has to step in and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, YOU HEAR ME???? "

You're being told that the time has come when she wants to do things when she's ready. It can happen anywhere from 1 to 3 yrs of age. It's not something that's permanent if the bird was acting otherwise before the slight aggression bagan. It's like the difference between a 10 yr old child and a 12 yr old child. Neither has reached teenage years yet but there is a difference and when that happens a different approach needs to be put into play. The usual way to handle these things is to let your bird tell you when she's interested in doing certain things, not when you want them done. Some people refer to this time in a young parrot's life as the *terrible twos* but it is temporary.

In the wild, greys and other parrots don't reprimand their chicks. The closest interaction is protecting and stopping a chick from doing something that may be harmful to itself. If a chick nibbles on a perent's foot, the parent simply walks away which instantly stops the chick from continuing. If there are 2 or 3 chicks in a clutch and they start annoying each other, they siimply turn away and that also stops the annoyance quickly. As the chicks become older, they stay with their own age flockmates. The adults stay with other adult birds. All of the wild birds are in areas where walking away is very easy and simple to do. You're referring to 2 birds which aren't chicks, aren't in the wild and most importantly, have been provided with their own living quarters which doesn't happen in the wild. When one bird goes in it's cage in effect, it's going into it's own home and eventually that home will be off limits to other birds in certain situations. There's a huge difference between parrots raised in a home and those raised in the wild. At home, parrots will nip at each other if they feel cornered or want to avoid contact which at times is hard to do. In the wild, there's plenty of room to walk away.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/13 01:56

Nothing for nothing people but let's not get carried away. No coffee makers will cause any type of problems. The other day, someone said that regular lightbulbs have a coating of teflon in the glass. Again, let's not get crazy. Good news is that you all can wake up tomorrow and have your coffee as usual and you can actually turn your lights on when doing it.

About 2 yrs ago, my TAG was walking on top of the CAG's cage in the morning and shit on his head. CAG was sleeping. They have waterproof feathers so it bounced off. Commonly referred to as a real wakeup call.

3X to 4X a week-----( 7 day week ) is ok. Seeds are alright because they aren't toxic. Don't give huge amounts and understand that it isn't a substitute for it's regular diet. Fruit is much less important nutritionally than veggies and other foods that have natural calcium.

This can possibly be a combination experience. Piratica II: Return to Parrot Island (Hardcover) By Tanith Lee (Author)---approx $15 Music played in background while reading the book The Adventure Parrot DVD------approx $13 ----------------------------------------------- There's also some adventure books about the pirate Capt Hook. He was also disabled. He only had one arm. He carried around around a tough old Amazon parrot who used to yell out orders to the other pirates on the ship as they were sailing the open seas.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/11 01:08

Your vet can answer that because it depends upon the type of illness it was, how much medication was being given, how well your bird's system handled it. We're not vets here and can't given a qualified answer.

Even though it's untentional, you're adding to the problem by doing what you're doing. There isn't a healthy bird around that will starve itself. In your eyes, the bird has lost it's appetite. Normally, that happens to an ill bird and eventually a bird needs to be looked at by a vet. This isn't the case with your bird. Your bird doesn't eat, you see this and rush over to make sure that he eats. If a bird really lost it's appetite, he wouldn't be eating when you decide to fed him so you can rule out the loss of appetite due to illness. You'll have to be strong and ignore the bird when you see this. He already knows you're coming to the rescue because they're able to pick up on habits very well. Eventually, true hunger takes over and a bird will eat. Birds aren't the type of animal that starves itself because of a loss in the family. The only requirement on your part is to make sure that the food he's given is the same type of normal diet he always eats from you. There are certain items that need to be handfed to a bird and the reason for that is their inability to grasp it, and eat it without it breaking loose---example, a slice of banana. Gooey, soft, easily breakable. The banana dirtys up the bottom of the foot and claws. If you don't give your bird the chance the eat by itself, you'll be stuck with a problem bird. I'm sure he wasn't handfed by his previous owners all the time they had him. It may bother you to see him like this but he will eat. Not only will birds eat but if there's no food around that they can eat by themselves, they'll start picking at other things like newspaper and with some birds, their droppings. If you see your bird not eating for hours and hours while you're around, he'll eat when you're not around such as the night time. Healthy birds can't sleep on empty stomachs and that goes for outdoor birds whether they're hookbills or softbills.

That's not unusual. many greys have bits of red in different feathers in all parts of the body. It's an excess of the red pigment gene that causes some feather to be red. It's the same gene as the red in the tail. If you have a very young bird who hasn't molted yet, more than likely those red feathers will fall. Other birds keep those red feathers for life. Nothing to worry about though. Above, look for the words SEARCH FORUM above the moving square. Type in RED FACTOR GREYS. That will give more info.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/09 06:32

""""We have talked about anti stress drugs and a collar because she will not let the new growth come in unharmed."""" In your situation, drugs would seem like the way to go. There's at least 3 drugs that can be prescribed and usually, a vet will show you how to administer them. """"I have owned Ganesha for more like 2 1/4 months and she came to me from a breeder who was going to put her in sanctuary because she could no longer be sold.""""" So, can I assume correctly that there were health/body feather problems before you took her? Normally, a breeder won't put a baby bird in a santuary unless there's a good reason. Did the breeder give you the reason for the santuary other than the fact that she couldn't be sold? It's possible that she went through bad experiences while she was with the breeder. So, she was sold to people at 7 mts, immediately returned and was with the breeder for 3 or 4 more mts before you took her at 11 mts? Sorry if I'm miscalculating. For one thing, your bird has been in a very unsettling situation that no baby bird should be put through no matter what the problem is. No bird should be bounced around from breeder to customer back to the breeder and then to another customer--all of which happened before 1 yr of age. A bird who doesn't know where it belongs can become an extremely hyper bird who will find an outlet for it's frustration---Plucking-Chewing. It's not uncommon. I can tell you positively that your bird is gonna need much more time to start feeling like she's finally arrived at her permanent home. Her past situation screams *plucking, chewing, nervousness, irratic behavior*. I truly feel terrible about what you're going through and that also applies to your bird. As far as the tail, I don't know if the follicles are gone or just the complete feathers. If the follicles are there, feathers will come back. I doubt that the follicles were removed if the only problem was that the feathers had to be removed. The spasms you refer to is what I was talking about before--the tiny shafts pinching into the skin causing some pain and a desire to pull the shafts in that area. It's only after the feathers come out a certain distance ( about 3/4 inch ) that the pulling will decrease. At that distance the shafts will have feathers in them and won't pinch the skin. That applies to all areas where feathers are pulled close to or on the skin. To be honest, there must have been some problems in the past. I say this so you can move forward knowing that as of now your bird comes in the classifical of *special needs* bird of which there are hundreds. From those pics, it seems like the flight feathers are totally gone but the covert feathers are still there. From what I can see, the neck hasn't been touched It will take quite a while for your bird to get back in order again. Your bird's feathers may not come in perfectly and one other thing may happen--limited ability to fly. I would seriously discuss the anti-stress drugs with your vet. It's obvious that you have a hyper bird and there's thousands like that, especially greys. As far as the collar, that depends on 2 things--how tender the skin is where the collar will sit and your bird's acceptance or lack of acceptance of it. Your bird may be smat enough to get it off. Your vet can discuss it with you. I know you won't believe this but I also feel that your bird could be in much worse shape feather wise. I say that because baldness doesn't seem to be there. I've seen much worse than what your bird looks like. I wish I could say more but it's good that you have a solid connection to your vet. Patience, time and understanding the problem will more than likely get you through this. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/08 05:43<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/08 05:48

If a bird is a plucker and goes after flight feathers, it's gonna be a long time before a complete new set of flight feathers will appear. More than likely, when the bird is finished with one side of the body, it'll start on the other side. They don't grow back at the same time. The areas near the skin can be irritated because of previous pulling/plucking. The more areas a bird plucks, the longer it's going to take before plucking stops and this is the reason--when a bird plucks down to the skin, the time comes for new feathers to grow back in but they don't grow straight out. they grow out of the shaft but the shaft lays against the body. The feathers grow out across the body and the pointed ends of those shafts pinch into the skin if there's nothing soft at the tips so when the shafts pinch into the skin, there's irritation and eventually there's pulling to get the shaft away from the body and if it's seriously pulled, the shaft will not only come out but the follicle will too and no feather will ever grow in that spot again. A bird who is growing feathers back will have relapse after relapse. There's nothing concerning a quick fix when the subject is about plucking. It's a long process. If you wanna give her something that has noise, use a heavy duty bell that hangs in a cage so that she can vent frustrations on it to the point of it seeming to be violent interaction with the bell. That's something that's necessary in an area where most of the plucking occurs ( the cage). It's not uncommon for a plucker to pull all the tail feathers out. In your situation, the tail feathers were chewed and someone else decided to pull the rest of the tail feathers out. tail feathers will take a long time to come back in and there's a good chance that your bird will proceed to either chew or pull those feathers out. Your description of the seriousness of the plucking may not be as dire as you make it sound but that's not your fault. If you could post a couple of close up pictures, that would help. More opinions and comparisons can be made when seeing pictures.Your bird is now under a vet's care. The vet has the tools and medications which may be needed to treat the problem. Aloe juice isn't a cure all. It works up to a point. You'll need to put pressure on your vet as to what procedures can or should be done. We can't override what your vet says. He knows the, has seen the bird and can make his own conclusions. This problem may go back to when you got the bird---not enough time to be weaned, possible short clipping, lack of proper adjustments in a house, hyperactivity. Now you can say you don't do this or you do that and it isn't this way or I make sure of this or that but what's most important is that your bird is under a vet's care and should be able to help you with explanations, reasons and possible solutions. It sounds like you've had the bird for 3 mts. Is he a baby or is he an adult who came to you with this problem? With babies, family adjustments can either take a long time or a short time to occur. With older adult birds who have had this problem for a long time, it may have reached the point where it's a permanent plucker. If your vet is also one that also takes care of avian rescue birds, she should be able to get into the specifics of feather problems because many birds in rescue shelters have chewing/plucking problems. If she has an answer for those birds, then she should have an answer for you.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/08 02:16

He doesn't like that cage when he's outside of it and doesn't like you when he is in it. he can get away from you when he's in it and doesn't wanna get away from you when he's out of it. My sufgestion is to not puthim back in the cage so quickly after he lets you pick him up. Walk around with him slowly. Talk to him softly. Let him see what things are all about when he's with you. Try to put him on a stand inside of the cage when you put him down instead of the cage all the time. Give some nuts or other treats he likes when you're holding him. Eventually, he gets the idea that being with you isn't that bad. None of these thingswere done before. The man's solution was to put the bird away fior safety reasons. That doesn't accomplishmuch. As far as his attitude when he's in the cage, well he might be at that age where he has that natural protective attitude towards his *home* in which case, you would have better results with him outside. Many people go through that situationconcerning the inside of a cage type attitude. Many other species are naturally prone to doing this even if no cruelty ever existed. The first priority is to get him to like you when he wants to. It does take time buit you need to remember that you're dealing with an adult bird that has an ingrained attitude that can't be changed very often. It doesn't apply to every bird but it does exist in loads of birds. The plucking, the flying. A bird who has been caged for long periods of time won't fly as well as others and many get into the habit of plucking. Sometimes, a more relaxed bird who is more involved in things than before will ease up on that plucking. With other birds, the plucking is a permanent habit. Only time and different ways of dealing with your bird will give you an answer. Constant baths or misting will leave the skin softer and less itchy. There are things to use but first get him used to dealing with water and the act of bathing.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/07 20:51

I've used borax in the past. I put some around the hole where they come from. For some reason they like that stuff. They take it back to where they came from, eat it and die. I use it outside in the back yard too.It's the same principle as with mice. There's certain poisons that they like, (certain small pellets). They eat the pellets, go back in their hiding spots and a week later they're dead.

Been using them for years including the ones that have paper towels rolled on them. I've never had any problems with them other than that the birds make a mess because they shred them and I'm the one that has to clean it. But if you feel nervous about it, don't use them.

Go to the supermarket. There's a brand called Quaker Oats. Buy the box that has 10 individual packets in it. The packets are different flavored. All of them are fine. Your bird may not like every single flavor but will like most. Don't worry about any sugar in it. Those oatmeal packets don't harm the bird. Give 1/2 to 1 coffee scoop 2 times a week. Oatmeal is not nutritious but it can't hurt the bird. Many birds are gven the oatmeal as a treat. Anice warm way to start off the day. Buy a small container of flavored yogurt. Yogurt has healthy bacteria in it which is good for a bird. Give 2 or 3 times a month.

She's eating most of the other things such as the veggies, fruits, nuts? just not eating the pellets? If so, don't worry about the pellets. Just give the other food. Pellets aren't as important as the other natural foods.

Yes, they're very good to use and they also serve as communication concerning potty training.

It's a great idea to use another cage if you have one. Don't replace any type of material that was connected to breeding. Using the camera is usually done to monitor certain functions--eggs, actual mating, feeding etc. If you put them into an area where you can see them and visa versa, that would be fine but there's a condition---- I personally think you should forget about this pair having a clutch this year. They need to get back into shape, learn that there's no other birds standing over them. They may need a vet check in the future. Both probably need a brand new diet in order to build up their internal systems. Their vitamin intake has to be replenished. None of these things canbe accomplished over night. Let them live as pets. By the way, I'm not surprised that they became unhappy when the box was closed off. You can't give in to everything they want. If you didn't close it off, they would be in it right now doing nothing but hiding. Think about what I said. Next year you'll see 2 different birds. Place them where you want but if the place you pick is too quiet and can't be viewed then find another spot.

Once in a while it happens but doesn't last that long--it lasts until * the thrill is gone*. Just watch your bird and see what happens. The kitten is just a baby. Birds will get more jealous of other birds more than cats and dogs<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/06 02:08

Do it in steps to make sure--instead of stopping the whole feeding only use 1/2 the amount in it and go down to eliminating that feeding when you're positive. Always cut down by halves<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/06 01:54

How long have you had this bird? Is it a new first cage for the bird? Do you know anything about whether this bird was weaned properly? Can you ask the people you got the bird from whether he was always doing this? Did they start him on that habit? Is he very mobile around the interior of the cage? When in the cage, make sure bowls are close by so that he can easily get to the food. Put the same things in the cage that he eats from your hands. Birds don't starve themselves and will eventually seek out food but they can be stubborn.

I have a perfect example of a bird that made a 180 degree personality and confidence change. I was given a bird who was totally featherless. Many others here have seen that bird from start to finish. The bird was 3 when I got him and is now 7. The bird never learned how to fly. How could he fly when he had nothing to use to fly ( feathers)with? The bird was kept in a cage for those 3 yrs. The bird was alone for most of those 3 yrs. The plucking went way past the stage of normal plucking. He had no feathers anywhere. It took 3 1/2 yrs to get his full set of feathers in. Eventually, he was left out of his cage here and the long term wonderful experience stopped him from further plucking. He now has a full set of flights and he flys, not as well as my others but most importantly he flys. More than likely he never will fly as well as the others. He wasn't coordinated after learning how to fly but he did improve quite a bit. Had he been able to fly as a youngster, none of this would have happened. Besides learning how to fly he needed to build up body strength. That also took quite a while. Even with a full set of wings, he had his crashes but it was those new set of flight feathers, those crashes weren't seruious. When he grew his tail feathers in he had the normal ability to use the tail feathers as a rudder which is what tail feathers are all about. He doesn't crash anymore. He has upward and downward mobility. I trained him to fly to me and/or my wife. He can now go from one room to another without banging off of things. He can now make a U-turn and go back to a stand on his own without landing on the floor. Fortunately, I was blessed with a bird who was able to get back what should have been his from when he was a baby although he had plucking relapses. His whole personality and acceptance of things can be attributed to his ability of accepting or not accepting things because his wings have given him that ability to do it volunterily. Because of his bad situation, many people would havekept this bird clipped after flight feathers finally grew in. With this bird that would have be regression into a bad time in his life. <br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/05/05 20:52

Just remember that just about every bite is not done will evil intentions.