Inara

Perhaps a dumb question, but is there a reason to add sugar (even something that is a bit lower processed as the demerara)? Is it just for flavor or is there a nutrient other than the simple carb that is good for our fids? PS - the rice sounds yummy!

That really did clarify a lot! It does sound like Mav's not stepping up, etc. really is an "Don't want to, don't have to," independence type of behavior, especially since you've hit all the bases as far as not putting him back in his cage every time you pick him up, etc. When you were first teaching him to step up and/or come to you did you give him tidbits/reinforcers? (the old ask/behavior/praise and reward). You may have to start going back to the basics of that with him, practicing step up and reward while you are sitting down for a couple of days, then moving on to making a small motion of standing up, but not all the way after he has stepped up, praise and reward for staying on you, wash rinse repeat until he is successfully staying with you as you stand. When in doubt, always go back to something, no matter how small, that both he and you can be successful with. Inara knows "time to go home," which means we're heading to her cage rather than "kitchen, bedroom, downstairs," etc. Before I stand up, I'll say, "Hang on, we're going to the _______." This way she knows where we're headed, and so if it's not "home" she understands that it's not going back to her cage time. She also always gets her favorite treat (which is only given to her when she "goes home") when she steps onto one of the perches in her cage. You probably already talk with Maverick to let him know that you're going to stand or which room you're going to, and have a word for his cage so that he knows the difference. Sometimes it helps to get and keep eye contact while you are making the move. As for the screaming, you say that it stops when you look at him. Looking is still addressing him and can be a reinforcer. How long is the longest that it has gone on before you turn to look? Have you tried walking out of the room (without saying anything or looking at him) the moment he begins the screech, and not coming back until he's quieted? When he quiets on his own even for a few seconds, do you immediately give him praise/attention and/or a reward and let him know that is a good thing? I know it's got to be really hard when it can be so loud and ongoing, and also when it causes tension between you and your fiance, and it sounds like you've already been trying all of the above and every Hail Mary play you can think of with him right now. There are so many great resources in the threads here in the forums, as well as some very decent youtube videos out there on behavior issues, as well as some decent books. So many birds are rehomed about every 2 years, and many by the time they wind up in a sanctuary or birdie pound, have been rehomed 8 to 10 times. If you stick it out with him, the rewards far outweigh the irritants and inconvenience of this stage, but it does take consistency, consistency, consistency, and understanding that just like we like to have a paycheck for showing up for work every day, our wild feathered friends also like paychecks and usually prefer them immediately rather than down the road. PS -- squirrel? How long has your squirrel lived with you?

At the risk of being pretty simplistic, and getting back to your question(s): 1) the non-stop screaming: perhaps a trip to the Vet just to rule out anything physical would be in order? 2) if you and your fiance are arguing about it, then tension is increasing in your home, and this can be picked up by your bird so he may be more on the alert and expressing it loudly 3) if you have to do the "chase and towel" then his natural reaction is going to be to start seeing you as a predator rather than as a flock member. You may want to go back to square one, with designated time in his cage, change up some toys in there, and then structured time out of his cage with you and not on a perch since he is flying off of that. have him on your hand, and re-establish that rapport with longer periods out of cage and with you, then back into his cage with a major treat upon going back in. Dave007 and others would know more about age related issues than I, as while not new to greys/parrots I am new to a young one. After much reading (and zero practical experience except day to day with Inara) it's my understanding that this is an age where in the wild they would be becoming more independent. So flying off his perch and choosing when and where he wants to be would be quite natural. Upon doing so, being chased down and toweled would likely instigate a "wtquack"?? result, and then eventually a conditioned avoidance of you and viewing you as more predatory than flock member. All he knows is that his buddy has now become someone who is inhibiting his independence and is stalking him. Hence, my thoughts on "starting over," with things that both he and you can be successful with. He's being what comes naturally, and because your behavior has also changed, he's viewing you in a completely different light. It may be helpful to see if his screaming happens at any particular time of day, or in any recognizable pattern (time, duration, frequency, people, things). If he does fly off of your hand, and/or later as you progress back to perch time, try not to chase and towel, but give him some time to settle, then quietly sit down somewhere near him, and offer a few tidbits tossed on the floor in front of you, and wait for him to come over, then give him a little more time, and offer to have him step up. You both will make it through this, and I'm sure there are others here who can give you great advice based on their experiences. Certainly, your frustration shows. Above all, don't take his behavior personally. There is a reason behind it, so look at it as a puzzle, and work on putting those pieces together.

Sanveaz, your heart must have stopped when you could not see your wonderful Escher! Am happy to know that all ended well. Whew. Inara appeared to never really have fledged either, and her first people had at one time not long before she came to live with us taken her on a trail ride (person atop a horse) on their shoulder. They assured me that she "doesn't like to fly," and "will only head to the ground." I was very concerned after having seen her "head to the ground," a few times that she would seriously injure herself because she appeared to have no concept that 1) her wings really did belong to her and that she could control them, and 2) she appeared not to intentionally aim at any particular landing spot -- she would just startle lift and drop into a confused mess of fluff. I also made the assumption that her muscles would need strengthened and developed. When she would flap her wings while on the high bar of her mobile play perch, I'd say, "Wow! Hang on! Big wings! That feels good!" and then would give her a smooch or a tidbit of something to encourage more. Now we have our "Rock and roll" time and she does it wildly and dances and we're just silly together then. I then began to help her generalize that feeling to other situations by starting with a fat piece of cotton rope with big knots in it. I would hang it perpendicular and she would (and still does loves to do this) grab hold of it with her beak and feet and we would play "hang on, swing swing." After she was very comfortable with that game, I began to swing it with a bit more verve and give it a little drop which stimulated Inara to flap her wings. Then, we did the whole "Wow! Big wings! etc." and she learned after a few weeks that she could drive the rope herself by flapping her wings and flying forward while holding onto the rope. It is as if she had an "aha" moment that her wings truly belonged to *her*. During this same period (time frame is fuzzy, I'd have to look back at my journal), I worked with her when she would be on the seed guard at the bottom of her mobile play stand. I put it close to the sofa by just a few inches, and I could see that she really wanted to move from it to the sofa to be with me. So I would excitedly tell her, "You can do it! Use your big wings!" and one day she did. She was so pleased with herself, that she wanted to do it again and again. So each time I just moved the perch a bit farther from the couch. To make a shot story even longer ( ), she eventually (one evening when startled by the dog, and the night she was startled by the Quaker Oats Man! and at other times since then) made controlled flights where she even banked around the kitchen island and came to a perfect landing. She now has so much more confidence, and I believe that she has the main floor mapped out in her brain. Now she chooses to fly off of her little PVC perch, take a sharp L shaped left turn and heads for her cage, safely landing in front of it, when she wants to go "home." She has not yet, though, figured out that she can take flight intentionally (rather than when startled) when she is on the ground. So far she tries hopping and giving her wings a bit of a flap. Certainly, there are more professional ways to help train one's bird to fly. The above is just what came naturally to both me and Inara and just felt right as we used play and trust building to build muscles, stamina, and confidence. Learning through play with the addition of reinforcers (in the forms of tidbits, and tons of affection and positive interaction) is what it is all about for us, as she is not my research subject, she's my beloved companion. Last night, my Joe, called her "Turbo" after I had passed her off to his hand while I went into the kitchen to make some hot chocolate. I heard a flutter of wings, and "Hey Turbo where are you going?" I turned around to see that Inara had successfully navigated off of Joe's hand, and landed safely in the large open entry way to the kitchen. She apparently had decided to come look for me, and was happily walking toward me, giving me major smooches on the cheek when I picked her up. It's really wonderful to see so much improved confidence and less hyper-vigilance/startle response in her now that she has put all the pieces of her own body together including her spacial awareness and navigation brain. She has gone from a nervous, clumsy dive bomber, to a more relaxed pilot. She also now, will use her wings to hop down from one of the perches in her cage, to the bottom of her cage, and has not taken a fall in there for quite some time, I think because she knows she can also use her wings to regain her balance. At some point, I'll look into more structured flight training, but for now, this has been a great and fun process for both her and for me. We have plenty of time for something more official as her strength, agility, and confidence continue to grow. I'm sure your beautiful Escher, with practice will become much more intentional and confident too as he goes along. Those unintentional incidents in the beginning days with Inara gave me grey hair, and I'm still a bit fluttery-hearted when she takes off and I'm not expecting her to!

That is very exciting, pikachu! I figured out how to post videos, but it's getting them compressed so that they don't take a jillion years to upload that is what has me stymied. Would love to hear some input on what software others here use who are great at doing/posting the vids. Perhaps some kind would will give us a tutorial on how to compress and post? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

You've got *that* right!! hahaha danmcq and BaileysPapa, they really are fabulous aren't they? Dan that is so cool about Dayo, I will indeed have to add in some sounds, too as we go. BaileysPapa, I love these birds so, too. We're privileged to be able to live among them.

Birdhouse, I used the recipe: 1 cup baking soda 1/2 cup vinegar 1/8 cup Dawn liquid And then did put my own twist on it by pouring boiling water onto folded up paper towels and putting them upon the worst spots to soften them up. Then I simply dabbed the above mixture on, used a plastic scrubby lightly on the worst spots, rinsed everything and my oven is sparkling. I soaked the racks in a sink filled with scalding water and the same mixture, and they came out shiny and bright. Microwave, I just put a bowl of water with a lemon slice in it and then zap it for 3 minutes, then wipe. Works great. When I was young, I'd pour boiling water into a bowl, put a couple of capfuls of ammonia in it, shut the oven door, then wipe out in the morning. But I gave up ammonia long ago. Great to know that even just the vinegar and hot water alone works, thanks for that, tip!! I fixed the link, because she does have some good tips on taking the oven door off, etc.

I bake a lot and even though I have a self cleaning oven, I don't like to breathe that residue myself! Here is a great youtube video that shows a decent non-toxic non-fumey approach and it is also great at how to take the various parts of one's oven apart: Am in the process of doing this today. It does help to let it sit in your oven for awhile to cut the grease. Be sure to try it (or anything else) on an unobtrusive spot to ensure that your oven finish is OK with this mixture. Baking soda, vinegar, and Dawn dishwashing liquid.

For the past week and a half or so I've been working with Inara on counting. We progressed from 1, 2, 3 very nicely and she is hitting about 75% accuracy in identifying 1, 2, or 3 fingers (even when different ones are held up) and enjoys saying, "One, two, three," and "two three, good!" "two three, very good job!" So we began working on "four." (To me) she just didn't seem to be picking it up as quickly as the first three, so I brought out the big guns for treats -- bits of birdie cookie. She would get a sunflower seed (the only time she gets them is when we're actively in a planned learning session) for saying 1,2,3 correctly in sequence, and a bit of cookie when she correctly identified how many fingers (actually I call them toes since they are similar to her toes). She would accurately count verbally 1,2,3 then nothing for "4" but she would hold one of her feet up every time. I would say to her, "four, four" and then "four will get a cookie." After a couple of sessions like this across a couple of days, this weekend we were doing our thing (she likes to initiate it by saying "2,3," letting me know she wants to play the game), she said, "1,2, 3" then again held up one of her feet, then said "Cookie," and waited expectantly. I had one of those forehead slap moments! When she first came to live with us, and ever since I've named her body parts, "eyes, beak, wings, and four toes," as I would touch them. I then got her to engage with giving me "high fours," and have said countless times, "Inara has 4 toes." It hit me that she was counting verbally 1,2,3 and then simply lifting up her "four toes!" for the number four. I began testing this hypothesis, and she was absolutely doing it with intention and asking for a cookie each time, even though she had not been receiving one. Once I realized what she had been doing, and my brain light bulb went off, I now give her a cookie for the sign language "4." My husband was tickled last night and said that she is the perfect companion for me. I spent many years of my career as a psychologist, you guessed it, working in ASL (American Sign Language) with Deaf clients/patients. I think, had that not been the case, that I may have completely missed what Inara was communicating. We'll see if she continues using her "4 toes" for "four" as we move on to "five." I've also begun lining up small objects in sets of up to four for her and I simply count each item out loud as I point at it for now, and she joins in, in the counting. I do expect at some point in the future that she will generalize from how many "toes/fingers" to how many of ____ objects. She does identify 2 of something other than fingers -- grapes, carrot shreds, seeds, etc. and is doing really well with variations of 3 fingers. Now that I know what holding up her own four toes means, I'll be testing out if she matches those to my four fingers now and or to four objects. And the cookie monster? Well, now that she says Cook-ee so clearly, she makes it verrrrrry clear when she would like a bite of one. Usually as I'm walking past her cage, or when she's just given me a few kisses, or when the moon is full, or a snowflake falls, or...... :D

Our 28 month old TAG, Inara, has a relationship with both myself and my other half. I've ensured from day 1 when she came to live with us about 14 weeks ago, that I involved Joe in her care and handling even though I do the bulk of it. She at first was a bit nippy with him. This I attributed to his being a bit nervous handling her. Once the two of them became used to one another, the nippiness stopped and she is very comfortable with Joe taking her out of her cage, hanging out with her, and they now do a whistling duet of "If I only had a brain," from the Wizard of Oz. However, she will not allow him to handle her the way I do, i.e. examining her wings, toes, face, etc. and she is much more affectionate with me. She does initiate contact with Joe, and gives him a special whistle, fluff and tail wag when he picks her up or when he comes home from work. I do believe that she would allow the same type of handling, if Joe was comfortable doing so. This was evidenced by when I took her to her first visit with our avian vet. I handed her over easily (and had prepped her for a couple of weeks prior by examining her wings, toes, etc) and the vet did not need to towel her in order to complete her exam. Her assistant said, "You're being brave this morning," to the vet, and the vet replied, "She seems very relaxed and amenable to being handled." She was, although she was definitely ready to come back to me pronto once things were finished. This morning, I had overslept and awoke to a strangely quiet house. I walked into the living room and there was Joe having his tea in his chair, our dog snoozing at his feet, and HRH Inara happily atop her little PVC play perch on the floor, happily playing with a footie toy and already having had her breakfast fruit. While I was delighted that things were so smooth, I do have to admit to a teensy twinge of .."hey, how could it have gone so smoothly without me??!" LOL The long and short of it is that I would echo others above who suggest keeping up the interactions with other members of the family. It's very easy once a bird has been a bit beaky or nippy with someone other than the primary caretaker, for that person to begin backing off a bit on interactions and then the bonds become a bit looser between them and the bird. Also, we all deep inside of us, if we would admit it to ourselves, can take a wee bit of pleasure in knowing that we are our fid's favorite and so sometimes unconsciously allow the bonds to become looser with other family members. I confess, that I do take a teensy bit of delight that Inara loves to give me smooches and does not do so with Joe. (I'm a bit evil that way! :D)

That is where I got Inara's, and I agree. They were really nice to work with. I would also recommend the cages, and their business.

How exciting for all of you! Radar sounds like quite the little character, and with Christmas break coming up soon with your kiddos home even more, he's going to be just chattering away. Would love to see some photos, and can't wait to hear more about his antics.

Loved watching Delilah's reactions. It will be fun to see future "school" sessions and watch both of your cuties, your daughter and Delilah.

Welcome, welcome, and congratulations on Breezy! I love that name. We share our lives with a 29 months old Timneh who came to live with us in September of this year. I'm completely besotted with the little squirt. Can't wait to hear all about your new baby and to see some photos. You've both landed in a wonderful place here. There's so much information in the various threads, and tons of wisdom and support from the members here. Looking forward to getting to know you and Breezy better.

You're one to squawk, erm talk !! hahaha And I really did mean contemplate and parrot!! smartypants!

Wonderful information and art history! I'll be sure from now on, however, not to be found "contemplating" my parrot in my boudoir!

Looking back over the past few weeks, can you think of anything that has changed (other than Toby)? Have you been busier than usual, or spending less interactive/physical time with Toby? You've indicated that you have to get work done, and that Toby up to now has been allowed a lot of time out of his cage. It's natural, that now he is resistant to going back into his cage more often, because the rules have changed. All he knows is that it was fine before to be out and about all day and now it is not. When something isn't working, go back to something that he and you can do successfully together. Since he's attacking your hand when you want to take him to his cage, go back to "step up" and use a stick and if you have to have him go from the stick to inside of his cage. Be sure to reward him when he's on his stick as well as when he goes back into his cage. If he goes for your hand and shirt when you go to reward him, then start off with verbal praise, give him a second to calm down a bit, then calmly offer a treat. We all would love to have our companions be able to behave without constant reinforcement, but when things are out of whack, it really does help to go back to basics, and re-establish the rapport between the two of you. You might also consider having a cage in your work area, where Toby can hang out with you. Then take periodic "coffee breaks" with him. A great way for the two of you to work on Toby getting used to time in his cage, and going in and out when you expect him/need him to. Setting a daily rhythm for him where he has to have time for independent play is fine for him. You'll get the behaviors that you reward either intentionally or unintentionally. So my vote is always for making your rewards intentional (praise, treats, attention) rather than those unintentional ones (a startled yikes when you've been bitten, etc). Others here will know more than I do about hormones/developmental issues at his stage (my first two birds were much older when they came to me so I'm new to the young bird life myself). So I'm in the same boat with you where that is concerned. I would also echo Dave, for keeping Toby away from those rare body parts that are hard to replace, like ears, eyes, lips, etc. You may want to take a look at which toys he goes Beakazerker on and if there is one or perhaps a couple, cool his jets by removing those toys for awhile, and see if this helps settle his behavior. If the upside down biting, pecking, etc. is reinforced as play, then he's likely to transfer that to other objects, i.e. you until he has more maturity and lessened opportunities for him to do it to you. I'm cheering you on, and hope that some small part of this might be helpful

How frustrating this must be for you. It does seem that given you have been around many other birds, including another Grey, that it could be Gracie related. No bath for 12 years, who knows what kind of crapola is harbored in her feathers. It might be worth having your vet check her out for mites, as well as give her a proper head to toe cleaning (by the vet or vet's staff). I can only imagine what *her* little respiratory system must be going through. Also, if she had been housed around all that smoke for years, she could have some nicotine withdrawal herself. Inara (TAG) doesn't seem to produce a lot of dander. We live in a high, arid climate. I mist her daily and I'm careful about using filtered water in her mist bottle as well as her water dishes. I figure that if I'm misting her with chlorinated tap water that that will just add to any dryness issues and can't be healthy for her. It's also why I don't have her shower with me. Because of our climate, we're pretty dusty anyway unless, like today, there is snow on the ground. So I dust every other day with a microfiber mitt and then toss it into the washer immediately afterward. I also vacuum every other day (and spot vacuum around her cage sometimes daily) and clean the filter on the vacuum immediately afterward. It's always a very heart wrenching decision to put a companion up for adoption or to surrender to a sanctuary. The positive, is that Gracie is now out of her terrible home of origin. Only you know how equipped you are physically, emotionally, and financially to deal with this frustrating and sad situation. I wish for you and Gracie, the best possible outcome.

Loved this!! And so did Inara -- she gave a whistle back. Charming one, that Misty!

Dave, that is really great information. When I was little, my mother used to always say that she could tell when a storm was coming, by the way I was behaving. I used to think she was silly. I was just thinking about that yesterday, as Inara out of the blue said, "It's snowing." I have said this to her at times when it has snowed, because out of one end of her cage she has a large window view into the forest area surrounding our home. When she said it, I thought to myself that the snow is not supposed to hit us for a couple more days. However, later last evening, the temp dropped dramatically, the wind picked up and it began to snow. We're now in the midst of a very cold snap. She also, has wanted to just hang out in her cage the past couple of days, only come out for her early morning time, and her late evening time, and has declined other offers to come out, although physical check didn't indicate anything worrisome. I had mentioned to Joe last night that perhaps she feels more secure in her cage when a storm is moving in. Your answers to the question certainly now makes that clear, and why. Very good question, and great thread!

It really is funny!! I will have to have Joe get out our good camera one of these evenings. She just cracks me up. I'm sure I probably crack her up also!! haha

Sure danmcq.....sure. :D

Inara and I dance together every late afternoon, early evening, before or after her supper. She loooooooves it! I ask her if she wants to "rock and roll" and I have made a play list of what appear to be her favorites. At the top of her list is "Walk Like an Egyptian" by the Bangles. When she hears the first few notes of it, she fluffs up and says, "Roll!" The other day, she was lifting up her foot to show me her toes and I said, "Are you walking like an Egyptian?" She replied, "rock and roll." She likes to move back and forth on her larger mobile perch, at the very top, and then flap the crap out of her wings while we're "rocking and rolling." When she does that, I shout, "Rock and Roll!" and I dance wildly. It's great exercise for her, and so much silly fun for the two of us. She really loves Neil Young's "Harvest Moon," I have no idea why, but she quiets down a bit and listens, and bobs her head to that one. Often, I'll put her on my shoulder and we'll sway dance with each other to slower music.