For those whose birds are flighted.

[shanlung]

whg,

 

I do flights AND free flights with my Riamfada.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that was after much intense training, step by step steady exposure to outside conditions, outside wind conditions, training for different height conditions, and yet I could never be certain if I covered it all.

 

Your climbing of tree to recover your grey is not good indication of flight, or recall training.

 

Take care. I feel you need a lot more understanding, or a lot more luck, before you attempt your deliberate free flight of your grey.

 

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

 

Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2010/01/29 20:53<br><br>Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2010/01/29 20:54

[RockysMum]

WOW Shanlung!!! Your photos are truely amazing,

That must be a wonderful feeling to be able to do that with your bird.

[shanlung]

RockysMum,

 

Yes.

 

That is the reward of treating your bird with respect and dignity due to sentient being who is also your equal even if unequal in size or genes.

 

The reward of returning them the gift of flight, under slowly increasing difficulty and skills and safe conditions at all times humanely possible.

 

 

 

 

 

Above photos taken from report

Harry Potter // Rustaq

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/105488.html

 

I wrote as clearly as I could on all the steps I had taken and the training done to do what I have done.

 

I hope what I have written can either be read to consider if they like to take their CAG outdoor safely at the very least.

 

I have to add that I very strongly urge folks NOT EVER to free flight. If any truly wish to do that, they should at the very least, read out, and find out as much as they can before they EVEN THINK of doing so.

 

Free Flight is a life and death situation, a decision that must never be made lightly.

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[RockysMum]

shanlung i was reading your web page there.

It is amazing what you and your wife do.

 

I would never let my bird freefly.

i wouldnt trust myself not to make a mistake and cause him any harm.

I do think if you decide to do this then you must train yourself and your bird for a long time, and the birds safety must come first always.

 

Sometimes i feel sad for him living indoors but he can fly around the house, maybe because he doesnt know what it is like to fly outdoors then he is not missing it?

 

Good luck for the future and i will check up on your web page again.

[whg]

Shanlung, you are completely correct. My presence in the tree was a result of lack of recognition that the bird had flight capability at the level she manifested (unfortunately, she had not learned how to fly down, or the visit outside probably would've been over in two or three hours, as opposed to the 24 it was), since at that point I did not know what I had. Once that discovery took place, my subsequent efforts have been focused on understanding and reducing spooking incidents (this is hard), ensuring bonding stays high (I would've never had the opportunity to retrieve her in the tree if she had not already been bonded to me to some degree - this is easy), and establishing recall (This works indoors, but I have no faith that it would work outside with all of the distractions that would exist). Post-recovery was also when I discovered your journal through Carly Liu's flight blog.

 

For those who feel that flying outside is an unsafe endeavor, I have to agree with them as well. The number of variables in the equation means that it cannot be guaranteed that all will go as planned, regardless of the preparation. That being said, I will try to make this happen. It's a matter of what I feel I owe to the bird, and while safety is very high on the list, it is not as high as allowing the bird to feel her birthright, to feel complete.

 

Will this happen tomorrow? Not a chance - it's 30 degrees in Memphis right now, and she's not even close to ready - she needs to develop comfort with a harness first, and get re-accustomed to being outside on my shoulder (she did this regularly prior to my discovery) before this even becomes a possibility. And there will be interim steps - batting cages, and maybe a local gymnasium. But barring any illnesses or injuries to either of us, we have time to make this happen. It just takes both of us having some patience, and not trying to do the things for which we're not ready.

[pearllyn]

I'm so glad to hear you are taking all things into account with your outdoor flying whg - you seem to have thought of every angle. But by taking this bird into your home, you've already taken some of her freedom from her - is it really worth the risk to try and give some of it back? I do very much agree with giving these birds as much freedom as possible, but personally, not to the risk of causing possible harm.

I do wish you luck with your free flying endeavour, maybe the last thing on your checklist before you free fly her, should be to teach her how to fend for herself in the wild should the worst happen.

Good luck with everything.<br><br>Post edited by: pearllyn, at: 2010/01/30 00:43

[whg]

I wish I knew how to do that... train something to survive in the wild. But I'm not even sure I know how to do that myself, let alone training another. No, all I can do is reduce the quamtity of variables, and hope like hell that it all works out. It's going to be a while, but I have faith in Martha's intellect, and to a lesser degree, my preparation.

However, there has been a path trodden by others, so I'm sure the path exists (Thany you, Shanlung, for providing guideposts).

[danmcq]

whg wrote:

<Snip>and establishing recall (This works indoors, but I have no faith that it would work outside with all of the distractions that would exist). Post-recovery was also when I discovered your journal through Carly Liu's flight blog.

 

Since you keep referencing Carly lu's blog on free flight.

 

She took over a year preparing for that first free flight. After many months of successful free flights. Her Grey decided it fancied a person and took off to them, much to Carly's horror.

 

She was very fortunate in the fact, that the person her grey went to and interacted with realized this was a "Special" bird and he also had a conscience that told him there was an owner heartbroken looking for this special bird and took it to a vets office inquiring how to get the bird back to it's owner. Thus, Carly Lu got her bird back in a nutshell.

 

So, if scary events that WILL frighten them and cause an instinctive "flee for your life" reaction will happen at some point. another factor is, they also have a brain, wants and desires and will pursue those. No matter how much you think they may love you or how well trained you think the bird is, they will fly off into the sunset.

 

Professional trainers that free fly birds never make the mistake of becoming comfortable enough to assume a bird will not just fly off one day. They know it can and will happen in most cases. They are so in-tune with their birds, that they can just look at it and know, this is not a day to free fly. Their are articles on this as well and in Carly Lu's blog.

 

Letting your bird become flighted is a huge step many parrot owners do not ever take. So you have already given the best gift of all to your bird, namely the ability to fly.

 

You can further that by using a flight harness and placing extensions on it to allow semi free flight like Shanlung. This also ensures that as a responsible loving owner, you know your birds will not fly off under duress and face a very shortened life due to not having survival skills.

 

You need to think about your birds safety and your responsibility to make the wise decisions for it. You are responsible for what you have tamed for life.

 

Even professionals will not release a tamed critter to the wild. They know it will be a death sentence.

 

I know your feelings very well. I have them myself on wanting my bird to have the freedom and life it was meant to have in the wild. But, I also know it depends on me for it's very life. So I give it the closest thing to a natural life I can, without putting it in danger it has no knowledge of. He was born in captivity and will remain in captivity for life until dieing of natural causes. He loves his life here, loves his flock and home. To him, this is his natural life. It is the only one he will know, as all other critters born in captivity.

 

When you say if your bird flies off, then "oh well I gave it the freedom it deserves". I take exception to that.

 

It deserves your looking after it's very life and just releasing it to perhaps have an exhilarating time of freedom it does not know it is missing and possibly sentencing it to a decades shortened life span, is not rational thinking, in my opinion.

 

It took me not a short while to come to the conclusion myself.

[harmonicaman68]

WHG ... try the Aviator Harness and the Flight Line extension for it. You can see it in action and order it at http://www.hartmanaviary.com/

 

Ziva forages and flies to me when startled, but there are no worries about her getting lost and becoming a meal for a predator, because the harness allows quality of life AND safety.

 

Quality of life requires there be life.

 

Thanks to Shanlung, danmcq, Pearllyn, RockysMum and whg for this conversation. I'm challenged to keep Ziva flighted and to work with her all the more on the Aviator Harness. What an incredible honor to be given an opportunity of friendship with the Greys who have accepted us.

[shanlung]

RockysMum,

 

You have already given him a greater gift than you think by allowing him freedom of flight at home. Even if he had flown freely before, he would not have missed it too much if you let him fly about in the house.

 

Truly, it is not necessary for you to take him out of the house at all if that is not your nature to do so. Perhaps you like to go to places such as cinema or shopping center where it is not appropriate for CAG to come with you.

 

My nature is to go outdoors that I liked. I want to take my CAG with me outdoors be it Tinkerbell or Riamfada. I do believe taking them out to meet people made them more poised and acceptance of people and a lot less shy than CAGs not taken out at all

 

But if you take them out, take them out safely via a good harness that you make your own and sized to your grey. I CANNOT RECOMMEND ANY OF THOSE COMMERCIAL HARNESSES. Frankly, I think I have more experiences in harness than all those jointly and collectively in making and selling those commercial harnesses in the market.

 

You need not even have to think of free flight. I enjoyed much more the harness flying of Riamfada than in the free flights I had done with her. You have seen her doing flights of 80-100 meters with the harness I designed for her, and I do believe she flew as well in the harness than if she had no harness on.

 

 

whg

 

There was this letter I posted here that might have saved you from having to climb that tree.

 

Flying down is a lot tougher for birds than flying upwards.

 

I post that letter here again Re:Wing clipping?? - 2007/03/11

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

In this bundled series of letters, I was talking about what I termed as the gyrodrop. That was in the

context of the mechanics of bird flights as to how they fly downwards. You can gauge how much I

know about the difficulties of birds flying downwards.

Feel free to dispute with me on what I wrote, if you have some such experiences.

 

About the end of that article, I suggest the best flight angle for you to

induce your clipped or unclipped bird to fly back to you. You never know

one day you might need to use this.

 

An article from Part 1 Tinkerbell Early Period

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/w6gyrodrop.htm'>http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/w6gyrodrop.htm

 

 

Shanlung

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9

 

And if above works for you and you are grateful,

send a nice cheque to Gerald Durrells Wildlife Trust

 

http://www.durrellwildlife.org/

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

Amonge the training that I did with Riamfada prior to free flight were the hide&seek recalls, where Riam would fly to me out of sight of her in different rooms.

 

For a long time I flew her in harness I designed and fitted to her.

 

I flew her in light to very strong head winds, tail winds and cross winds.

 

I flew her in gusty shifty winds

 

I flew her from high up a castle wall to me down below, and vice versa.

 

Her recalls to me were military precision. And yet I do not rely on recalls as when push comes to shove, you cannot be sure of that.

 

My bonding with Riamfada is great. And yet I do not rely on bonding alone in free flights, as when push comes to shove, you cannot depend on bonding either.

 

 

As to the details why not, please go to my main thread here especially in last few letters where I was explicit in describing those free flights I have done. Do heed especially the warnings

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/the-grey-lounge/5189-tinkerbell-love-of-a-flying-cag-in-taiwan.html#181077

 

I assumed that she might bolt, or Murphy decide to amuse himself. I chose areas with great visibility and which she knew very well.

 

I also read her nuances and her emotions, making myself ultra attuned to her. I find that a big strain on me, detracting from the total enjoyment I have had when flying her with harness.

 

 

Carly is an old friend. I made 2 harnesses for her Piper.

 

You might like to read this

 

Ramadan & Kitties on beach// Chess -1st Saturday IM Tournament // Tinkerbell Harness for Piper

 

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/104066.html

 

Read the other URLs embedded inside.

 

Read 'cargo cult' , 'playing music to ducks' and 'spooking zones'. Do try to find the time to read all those URLs including URLs embedded.

That can save you a lot of heartach. I am stupid enough to make mistakes, and luckier than most in able to recover. Learn where I gone wrong.

 

Read Tinkerbell Legacy, how to live at home with a flighted parrot. That is Part 2 of my webpage in my signature.

 

 

Do think about using Tinkerbell Ultra-Lite Harness that you make to fit your CAG and train your CAG to wear harness as a safe intermediate stage between indoor flight and that great big outdoor free flights.

 

Read Riamfada's blog to see how I trained her to accept that harness.

 

You might find harness flights to be so emotionally satisfying and to be enough for you.

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[Janfromboone]

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again. I'd love Shanlungs opinion. Why would a bird ("Tinkerbell" would be an example)who is well trained in recall or perhaps not trained in recall fly away from the only flock members he has ever known. His owner and the home he knows would have to be like his flockmates and home territory in the wild. A wild bird wouldn't fly away from his flock.

[shanlung]

Janfromboone,

 

I thought I wrote that very clearly in the post Bantienyen soul searching as to the reasons why.

 

I never hide anything, or ever see the need to hide anything. I probably wrote more on the mistakes I made then the stuff that I did.

 

Perhaps your need for answer can best be read in those reports that I made and written close to the events when that happened.

 

Have you indeed read what I wrote?

 

Or you have something else on your mind? Can you be more explicit with me?

 

 

Why not just tell us what is in your mind.

 

 

 

Shanlung<br><br>Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2010/01/31 20:22

[whg]

Good afternoon,

 

Some responses to posts...

 

re: aviator harnesses - they're heavy, and the rings used in construction are distracting. Even the Macaw doesn't like them (and he's the most agreeable bird on the planet that I know of). Also, the dog leash fabric used is hard on feathers when it rubs the bird.

 

re: why birds fly from flockmates - Humans are only surrogate flockmates - we have no clue what it means to potentially be lunch, and our cross species communications lack the nuance bird to bird communcation provides. So if a bird suddenly perceives it is in danger - Martha has gone to an alert state because there was a mosquito on the chandelier; the mosquito hadn't been there the last time she was in the room, so it was a new and unknown thing which might eat her regardless of how silly the idea of a mosquito eating a grey might appear to you or I - the synapses for flight are going to fire, and spook flight can best be described as flying anywhere else but where the bird is. It appears to be a "get out of Dodge, get out of Dodge now, and don't look back until you're well out of Dodge" sequence. There's probably some internal perception of what "out of Dodge" means, and once this happens, I think the bird starts deciding where to land to rest. After landing, normal bird brain processing resumes. This observation is based on an n of 1, so feel free to correct it, but that seems to be the pattern.

And, because humans are only surrogate flockmates, we've done nothing to communicate to the bird that after a spook state it should fly to some safe state. It's the logic behind putting an escaped bird's cage out on the lawn, in the hopes that it will recognize the safe place. Unfortunately, because the cage is now out on the lawn, it's not the safe place anymore to the bird (this is conjecture, but I haven't heard a lot of success with this approach, nor did I have it when I used it).

Right now, when Martha spooks in the house, I stand about a fifty percent chance of having her fly to my shoulder rather than her cage. One of my goals is to get that percentage in the high nineties, since I believe it's completely impossible to make an environment "spook-free". Birds just have way better vision than humans (they see a wider bandwidth, and I think I remember reading that they have more cones than rods, unlike humans, which means their eyes can pick up movement better than ours), and slightly better hearing (I think they hear a wider range than the 20-20k bandwidth). But unless spooking can be understood and mitigated, birds are going to fly away.

This is only my theory on why birds fly, so please correct this if I'm flying in the face of known data (pun unintentional but left in place).

 

re: free flight and the hazards involved - the base question here really should have its own forum; what is one's philosophy of grey ownership? I use the word "ownership" even though I know it's a loaded term because that mindset represents one end of the spectrum (regardless of the bird being referred to as a companion bird). I don't have this outlook.

I think the pact (and the resultant bond) between Martha and I is one of mutual consent. And as part of that pact, I promise to give her the best life she can live, not the best life I think she should live. And that includes flight capabilities and the opportunity to exercise them. She's comfortable flying in the house and not yet bored, but I can see boredom setting in once I've run out of new places to let her fly (she's just starting on the second floor, and learning how to navigate a staircase). She's too smart. That's one consideration.

A second is birthright. I did not let her regain her flight capability - it came back naturally and I did nothing to stop it. And she was fortunate enough to have been fledged well enough to take advantage of it without injury thus far (key words, "thus far").

Finally, there is a gratification that outweighs every fear I have. It is the sense of awe introduced to a household by a bird which can fly. Just as my cats provide my house with its soul and my dogs make my house a home, Martha, and to a lesser degree the other birds, gives the house a sense of wonder, a sense that

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Given these reasons, how could I not at least attempt to fulfill my part of the bargain, regardless of the effort involved, or potential hazards to be surmounted? And so I will continue to research and read in an effort to understand all of the variable involved in flying a bird in the outdoors, but mostly I'll continue to closely observe my bird so I'll know if she's ever ready to take that step. And as stupid as this sounds, should outside flight become a possibility, I'll discuss it with the bird before we do anything to try to convey the stakes to her. I already know them.

 

I hope these are reasonable explanations to the questions asked. There is no implied guarantee that they are accurate - I am working from a very small sample size. Should anyone else have reinforcing information, please post it. Likewise, if anyone has contradicting information, please post it. One of my goals in signing on to this board was to acquire a wider sample set to see if my hypotheses hold water. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld "I don't know what I don't know". So please, feel free to reply, either here or personally.

[harmonicaman68]

Hi whg ... the harness you reference is not the Aviator. The Aviator is the lightest of the harnesses that are commercially available. They come in multiple sizes and have no rings for the bird to worry at. If you have another harness you like or want to build your own as Shanlung has suggested, I wish you well. Personally, I would love to see how Shanlung builds his. It would be fun to try.

[Janfromboone]

whg - thanks for your amazing insight and response to the question I posed. Since my grey is just this week beginning to fly, I have alot of anxiety over the process he is going through as a two and a half year old bird. I also am anxious about making him safe and the doors escape proof. I lost a cockatiel once many years ago because he flew out the door and I would be devistated if that were to happen to Tobie. So, Shanlung, in no way was I trying to criticize any mistakes that were made with Tinkerbell. I remember crying when I read the story you wrote about Tinkerbell being in that tree and then your frantic search for her. I could relate. I still suffer from the loss of my cockatiel. I still sometimes feel pain that I should have done more to find the bird. I never want to feel that again. I have looked over this post and your site for a reference to Bantienyen soul searching and didn't see it. I probebly missed it. If you have a link or it is in this post I'll look again.

[whg]

harmonicaman68:

 

Thanks for the correction on the harness. I'll look it (Aviator) up to see how it's constructed later this evening. Although it's hard to get good detail from a picture online. Maybe there'll be reviews.

 

Shanlung's does look cool and it's ultra-light. He made one for Dr. Rasmussen (human to Carly Liu, the San Diego free flight parrot), and I believe he's written instructions on how to make them in the Tinkerbell journals. I have an e-mail (which began life as a post in this thread several days ago) containing links in this journal which I still need to catalog manually for useful information.<br><br>Post edited by: whg, at: 2010/02/01 05:10

[whg]

janfromboone:

 

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73232.html

[whg]

janfromboone:

 

Oh, and I apologize for my lack of manners. You're welcome.

[harmonicaman68]

whg - - Some interesting features of the Aviator include the construction of the line from the harness to your wrist. It is a shock cord that is stiff, but not so stiff as to jerk the parrot when it reaches the end. Shanlung on his blog has referred to the strength of a Grey's flight when spooked. I agree. The first times I had Ziva outside she spooked. When she came to the end of her harness tether the force was VERY hard and the shock cord of the Aviator stretched so as to gently turn her. I was amazed at the speed and strength of her flight and the pull on my wrist for a bird that was only 3 months old at the time. The stretchy shock chord did not pull her up short as a dog leash with no give would have done. I believe it's stretchy property kept Ziva from being harmed by the interaction between the strength of her flight and the strength of a harness to resist her.

 

After having experienced this. I believe that any good harness, homemade or otherwise should probably include the stretchy property of a six foot to twelve foot shock chord with 100 percent elongation properties, in between the harness and the place the parrot is anchored. Ziva's strength in flight has increased MUCH now that she is 8-1/2 months old. She keeps practicing and lengthening her flights. Thanks goodness for a strong yet gentle tether.

[rbpittman]

I have Aviator harnesses for my grey's and u2 and while we've had no luck getting it on Dixie yet, Beau has let me put it on him several times with little to no objection. Sterling (u2) loves his harness. He is quick to sit still and let me put it on knowing we are going "bye bye" although he only flies in the house. The harness allows me to take him out to get "his boy" from school, marching practice, ballgames, etc. I had looked at several harnesses and the Aviator is very easy to put on and remove and the instructions that come with it are excellent teaching tools.

[whg]

harmonicaman68, rbpittman:

 

Thanks for the insights on the aviator harness. I had looked at a couple of videos on you-tube that demonstrated putting it on a macaw and a goffins, but neither showed how the harness is tied off. They show putting it on, but don't show how to tighten it to the bird. If you could let me know what mechanism is used for that, I'd appreciate it, as I won't have to buy one just to find that out (I was considering it).

As for the shock cord, I'd wondered about that aspect of it. That's a part of the tether package, not the harness package, correct? It sounds like a gentle approach, and probably more viable than the one I was contemplating, which would be to use progressively heavier tethering materials as the line played out - IE; x feet of high tensile lightweight string coming off the harness, linked to y feet of lightweight chain which would be linked to z feet of heavier chain, linked to some immovable object at the other end, with the idea being as distance increased, the weight Martha would be pulling would do so as well. What I don't know is whether the increasing weight of the harness might not cause an adverse reaction in Martha. and, of course, there are potential fail points in the connections between the different tethering 'lines'.

But if the shock cord will bring her around without g-forces - that's a good solution. From the sounds of it (and this has been my experience as well), the initial hurdle will be getting Ms. Martha to accept the harness. However, since she understands "go walk dogs", and can only go with me now in a travel cage, I may be able to convince her that the harness is a better alternative. I'll see.

[pearllyn]

As you can see from the photos, the large belt which slides through the neck loop, is adjustable, just by sliding the belt through the buckle. I've found that once I have it as tight as it needs to be, it doesn't budge. The elasticated cord that loops over your hand IS attached to the harness, not the extension.

HOpe this helps.

 

[shanlung]

whg and all those thinking of free flight or not, there is this old report I did in Sept 2005

"some recent letters on free flying our parrots (food management to get stronger recalls)"

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/21917.html

 

This was a detailed discussion on techniques used to do free flights and the morality of free flights itself using some of those techniques and indeed, do we have the right to do so.

 

In reading that again, I found what I set out then what I am doing with Riamfada now to the point of free flight.

 

Above will be my last contribution to this subject.

 

There seemed to be people here who are so enamoured of Aviator Harness and happily promoting their use. Perhaps they have a cut of that money? Then they might like to know how that money came about.

 

I had included a link as to how Tinkerbell harnesss

"Tinkerbell Harness for Piper"

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/104066.html

 

can be made for whg that sadly he clearly chose not to read.

 

That is indeed his right .

 

I will extract out a part of what I have written.

 

The harness design that I started in 2002 and given freely to all around the world asking only for a donation to Durell Wildlife Trust or other Wildlife Trust of your choice.

 

I again request that of you who are going to make Tinkerbell harness. Be generous to our wildlife that share our planet. They need us more than ever.

 

Tinkerbell harness was last refined in June 2005 and recorded into my blog here

‘Tinkerbell revisited - meeting with Tsaoling bird whisperer and quirks of harness design’

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/11424.html

 

2 photos of Tinkerbell in her harness below taken from blog above

 

 

 

 

That had been hijacked and copied into a commercial harness that claimed 8 or 9 patents around Sept 2005 that claimed that their harness is the ‘lightest harness for flighted parrot’ and charging 50 US$. They then had the chutzpah to ‘offer’ me one of their harness .

 

I want to puke.

 

But don’t we know people do rob from church poor boxes. What about robbing from the voiceless creatures that I wished some $$ can go to help. But they rather the $$$ go into their bank that they can go laughing to.

 

Tinkerbell harness weigh in at 3 grams. Try to beat that.

 

This harness is made to fit your bird. I cannot believe in the commercial harness where ‘one size fits all’, and buckles bells and whistles used to ‘’adjust’’ harness to fit.

 

Do make a guess which was the commercial harness that I was referring to. To the extent when that came out, portions of what I written in

"harness for flighted parrot"

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/8284.html

were reproduced in their brochures, including my spelling mistakes.

 

I never felt so sick as when I first saw that.

 

I guess they got more glossy brochures now and CDs even.

 

But silent beasties and birdies that I meant those money to go to will have to do without.

 

 

 

Why do I feel as if I am a Madoff whistle blower in 2000-2008 been drowned out by crys of "Invest with Madoff!" from all who profitted by investing with Madoff then.

 

Morality do not seem to exist in this sorry planet of ours.

 

Life is short and I wish to maximise my happiness and minimise aggro to myself and to other folks here.

 

I rather go find a corner to puke in again and please excuse me.

 

You all will understand if I do not appear again.

 

 

 

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[pearllyn]

Shanlung, I do apoligise if I have offended you with my use of this particular harness. If one of my ideas had been pinched by a big company, I think I would want to puke as well.

At the time when I bought my harness I simply wanted one that was safe and comfy for my bird to use. I did a lot of research as to which one to get, and finally settled on this one. I did not know about yours at the time, indeed, I did not know about you at the time - there are thousands of articles out there on harnesses - I didn't read them all! I may not have trusted myself to make one anyway.

A far as your statement "What about robbing from the voiceless creatures that I wished some $$ can go to help. But they rather the $$$ go into their bank that they can go laughing to."

Perhaps I did help to line the pockets of a big company, but sadly, that's the world we live in - a greedy one, with not enough thought given to the souls we share it with.

I make regular donations every month to six different animal charities, the ones I consider make good use of their donations, and I won't be made to feel guilty about buying the harness I chose.

It's very generous of you to give the design of your harness freely to all who want it, for only a donation, and hopefully many animals will have benefitted from this generosity, but unfortunately not everyone has such high morals.

[harmonicaman68]

I very much appreciate what Shanlung has done to develop a harness style that is able to be made at home, inexpensively by those owned by Greys and other breeds of birds. I also have much benefited by his wonderful posts about the adventures that can be lived by out flighted friends (and ourselves) when we allow the Greys who own us to be and do what God created them to do ... fly, forage, explore, play, play jokes ... and even prod us to appreciate them as the very different companions they are. When one thinks outside of the box as Shanlung has done ... and takes our personal flighted friend along on casual day trips or longer ... there is no end to the variety or benefit.

 

I would like to clear one thing up. I don't get anything for recommending any harness type. I do have my birds use the Aviator because I believe it to be of excellent construction and easier (if not safer) to obtain for those of us who may not feel comfortable (or safe) making our own. It isn't one size fits all, but comes in a number of sizes to fit small birds like my daughter's green cheek conure, middle sized birds like our late sun conure Mali, larger sizes for Greys and Amazons and even larger for blue and gold macaws or hyacinths.

 

Further, at least the Aviator harnesses has been around for over a decade now. I've had one of the Aviator harnesses since 1999 or 2000 when I paid the going retail price that that time ... $19.95 US for one for Mali as Steve Hartman was developing the Aviator including the selection of material for chew resistance, the welded stitching, the shock cord, the attachment of the shock cord (apparently stretchy material is difficult to reliably attach to other materials), etc. The harness I bought for Mali in 1999 was subtly different than the one I purchased for Ziva in 2009. It is good to recognize that all makers of the various harnesses are continuing to think about the products they have developed and try to improve them. I believe the Aviator has about 9 patented innovations that make it unique to other harnesses. Steve manufactures to specifications he developed and tested. To my knowledge he still does some manufacturing or repair of materials himself. I know he has the equipment and that he personally packages the harnesses and sends out orders daily. No large workforce of laborers. Just Steve. The folks on the GreyForums site who have ordered them from Steve Hartman know he isn't a "big company". He gives personal attention to assure that each order is handled promptly. On his website, look at the home and grounds of the aviary he works out of. He is a sole proprietor of a modest parrot breeding operation on an acreage just north of Westerville, Ohio. It is Steve and a few volunteers who love parrots (1 on weekdays and 3 or 4 on weekends to help with visitors during the summer). His wife works as a nurse to make ends meet.

 

One of the nice innovations of the Aviator is the DVD that comes with it. It helps folks to learn how to successfully put the harness on their bird without spooking the bird ... Some of this related material is available for viewing online if your internet speed good. Those videos reveal that the Aviator isn't like any harness I have seen by others except that all harnesses are designed to fit the bird's body. The adjustment is easier than most (although I agree with some other posts here that it is easier as a two handed adjustment than just trying to do it one handed). It is also easier if you introduce your bird to it early in their life. My suggestion is not to wait for a special occasion to get it for your Grey. Get it as early as possible and put it on often ... even if you aren't going outside. Try to do enjoyable things together with your birds with the harness on so they know it means fun. I didn't get a harness for Mali until she was about 6 years old. She got so she knew the harness meant fun, but she was relieved to have it off. Ziva has worn the harness since her feathers first came in. She knows the harness means fun and her body language does not noticeably change ... she wants the harness on to go ... when we get back, she stands still to allow me to gently take it off ... beaks it a bit and then flies or runs off to play like a kid who has just had their winter coat and boots removed when they returned indoors. It is just a different form of play to her.

 

I'm sorry that this conversation has apparently hurt Shanlung. Shanlung's innovations and research into how to make a harness at home are applauded. It is just that some who don't feel qualified to construct a harness that is secure, nevertheless want our birds to have the experience that Shanlung has shown us SHOULD be made available as we try to improve the quality of life of our feathered friends. To me ... the real teaching I have received from Shanlung is not the harness ... but that I need to consider Ziva's quality of life. During the 16 years that Mali lived, I didn't take her out on the harness nearly enough. With Ziva ... partly because of Shanlung's example ... I take Ziva to work at least 1 day per week. I take her out on weekends as well ... Shanlung has caused me to take Ziva's life experiences in a different direction that has helped her personality and skills to emerge more fully and has simultaneously made Terri's and my life much improved for the enriched experiences.

 

I believe that this is the motivation that Steve Hartman has had as well. Praise God there are people who have been motivated to be innovators in their attempts to make the lives of our flighted companions more fulfilled. Shanlung, you and innovators like you have helped us remove the blinders.

 

Shanlung ... I'll look into supporting the charity you recommended.<br><br>Post edited by: harmonicaman68, at: 2010/02/04 12:28