whg

harmonicaman68, rbpittman: Thanks for the insights on the aviator harness. I had looked at a couple of videos on you-tube that demonstrated putting it on a macaw and a goffins, but neither showed how the harness is tied off. They show putting it on, but don't show how to tighten it to the bird. If you could let me know what mechanism is used for that, I'd appreciate it, as I won't have to buy one just to find that out (I was considering it). As for the shock cord, I'd wondered about that aspect of it. That's a part of the tether package, not the harness package, correct? It sounds like a gentle approach, and probably more viable than the one I was contemplating, which would be to use progressively heavier tethering materials as the line played out - IE; x feet of high tensile lightweight string coming off the harness, linked to y feet of lightweight chain which would be linked to z feet of heavier chain, linked to some immovable object at the other end, with the idea being as distance increased, the weight Martha would be pulling would do so as well. What I don't know is whether the increasing weight of the harness might not cause an adverse reaction in Martha. and, of course, there are potential fail points in the connections between the different tethering 'lines'. But if the shock cord will bring her around without g-forces - that's a good solution. From the sounds of it (and this has been my experience as well), the initial hurdle will be getting Ms. Martha to accept the harness. However, since she understands "go walk dogs", and can only go with me now in a travel cage, I may be able to convince her that the harness is a better alternative. I'll see.

janfromboone: Oh, and I apologize for my lack of manners. You're welcome.

janfromboone: http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73232.html

harmonicaman68: Thanks for the correction on the harness. I'll look it (Aviator) up to see how it's constructed later this evening. Although it's hard to get good detail from a picture online. Maybe there'll be reviews. Shanlung's does look cool and it's ultra-light. He made one for Dr. Rasmussen (human to Carly Liu, the San Diego free flight parrot), and I believe he's written instructions on how to make them in the Tinkerbell journals. I have an e-mail (which began life as a post in this thread several days ago) containing links in this journal which I still need to catalog manually for useful information.<br><br>Post edited by: whg, at: 2010/02/01 05:10

Lunging and squawking is normal bird behavior when it is in attack mode (I've seen this a lot when Martha plays with toys). It doesn't have anything to do with you unless you are the target of the lunge.

Good afternoon, Some responses to posts... re: aviator harnesses - they're heavy, and the rings used in construction are distracting. Even the Macaw doesn't like them (and he's the most agreeable bird on the planet that I know of). Also, the dog leash fabric used is hard on feathers when it rubs the bird. re: why birds fly from flockmates - Humans are only surrogate flockmates - we have no clue what it means to potentially be lunch, and our cross species communications lack the nuance bird to bird communcation provides. So if a bird suddenly perceives it is in danger - Martha has gone to an alert state because there was a mosquito on the chandelier; the mosquito hadn't been there the last time she was in the room, so it was a new and unknown thing which might eat her regardless of how silly the idea of a mosquito eating a grey might appear to you or I - the synapses for flight are going to fire, and spook flight can best be described as flying anywhere else but where the bird is. It appears to be a "get out of Dodge, get out of Dodge now, and don't look back until you're well out of Dodge" sequence. There's probably some internal perception of what "out of Dodge" means, and once this happens, I think the bird starts deciding where to land to rest. After landing, normal bird brain processing resumes. This observation is based on an n of 1, so feel free to correct it, but that seems to be the pattern. And, because humans are only surrogate flockmates, we've done nothing to communicate to the bird that after a spook state it should fly to some safe state. It's the logic behind putting an escaped bird's cage out on the lawn, in the hopes that it will recognize the safe place. Unfortunately, because the cage is now out on the lawn, it's not the safe place anymore to the bird (this is conjecture, but I haven't heard a lot of success with this approach, nor did I have it when I used it). Right now, when Martha spooks in the house, I stand about a fifty percent chance of having her fly to my shoulder rather than her cage. One of my goals is to get that percentage in the high nineties, since I believe it's completely impossible to make an environment "spook-free". Birds just have way better vision than humans (they see a wider bandwidth, and I think I remember reading that they have more cones than rods, unlike humans, which means their eyes can pick up movement better than ours), and slightly better hearing (I think they hear a wider range than the 20-20k bandwidth). But unless spooking can be understood and mitigated, birds are going to fly away. This is only my theory on why birds fly, so please correct this if I'm flying in the face of known data (pun unintentional but left in place). re: free flight and the hazards involved - the base question here really should have its own forum; what is one's philosophy of grey ownership? I use the word "ownership" even though I know it's a loaded term because that mindset represents one end of the spectrum (regardless of the bird being referred to as a companion bird). I don't have this outlook. I think the pact (and the resultant bond) between Martha and I is one of mutual consent. And as part of that pact, I promise to give her the best life she can live, not the best life I think she should live. And that includes flight capabilities and the opportunity to exercise them. She's comfortable flying in the house and not yet bored, but I can see boredom setting in once I've run out of new places to let her fly (she's just starting on the second floor, and learning how to navigate a staircase). She's too smart. That's one consideration. A second is birthright. I did not let her regain her flight capability - it came back naturally and I did nothing to stop it. And she was fortunate enough to have been fledged well enough to take advantage of it without injury thus far (key words, "thus far"). Finally, there is a gratification that outweighs every fear I have. It is the sense of awe introduced to a household by a bird which can fly. Just as my cats provide my house with its soul and my dogs make my house a home, Martha, and to a lesser degree the other birds, gives the house a sense of wonder, a sense that "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Given these reasons, how could I not at least attempt to fulfill my part of the bargain, regardless of the effort involved, or potential hazards to be surmounted? And so I will continue to research and read in an effort to understand all of the variable involved in flying a bird in the outdoors, but mostly I'll continue to closely observe my bird so I'll know if she's ever ready to take that step. And as stupid as this sounds, should outside flight become a possibility, I'll discuss it with the bird before we do anything to try to convey the stakes to her. I already know them. I hope these are reasonable explanations to the questions asked. There is no implied guarantee that they are accurate - I am working from a very small sample size. Should anyone else have reinforcing information, please post it. Likewise, if anyone has contradicting information, please post it. One of my goals in signing on to this board was to acquire a wider sample set to see if my hypotheses hold water. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld "I don't know what I don't know". So please, feel free to reply, either here or personally.

I wish I knew how to do that... train something to survive in the wild. But I'm not even sure I know how to do that myself, let alone training another. No, all I can do is reduce the quamtity of variables, and hope like hell that it all works out. It's going to be a while, but I have faith in Martha's intellect, and to a lesser degree, my preparation. However, there has been a path trodden by others, so I'm sure the path exists (Thany you, Shanlung, for providing guideposts).

Shanlung, you are completely correct. My presence in the tree was a result of lack of recognition that the bird had flight capability at the level she manifested (unfortunately, she had not learned how to fly down, or the visit outside probably would've been over in two or three hours, as opposed to the 24 it was), since at that point I did not know what I had. Once that discovery took place, my subsequent efforts have been focused on understanding and reducing spooking incidents (this is hard), ensuring bonding stays high (I would've never had the opportunity to retrieve her in the tree if she had not already been bonded to me to some degree - this is easy), and establishing recall (This works indoors, but I have no faith that it would work outside with all of the distractions that would exist). Post-recovery was also when I discovered your journal through Carly Liu's flight blog. For those who feel that flying outside is an unsafe endeavor, I have to agree with them as well. The number of variables in the equation means that it cannot be guaranteed that all will go as planned, regardless of the preparation. That being said, I will try to make this happen. It's a matter of what I feel I owe to the bird, and while safety is very high on the list, it is not as high as allowing the bird to feel her birthright, to feel complete. Will this happen tomorrow? Not a chance - it's 30 degrees in Memphis right now, and she's not even close to ready - she needs to develop comfort with a harness first, and get re-accustomed to being outside on my shoulder (she did this regularly prior to my discovery) before this even becomes a possibility. And there will be interim steps - batting cages, and maybe a local gymnasium. But barring any illnesses or injuries to either of us, we have time to make this happen. It just takes both of us having some patience, and not trying to do the things for which we're not ready.

This is my first post to any kind of board ever, so I apologize for any transgressions I may inadvertently commit at the start of this. As my profile says, I am flockmeister for five birds - one is literally mine; the others belong to wife or stepdaughter, both of whom are not as involved in the lives of the birds as they once were. The reason I posted here is because of the discussion on free-flight. All five birds have the ability to fly freely. The CAG is the most comfortable as she hasn't had her wings clipped since her original clip by the breeder. When I got her I made the decision to let the flight feathers grow and while it has provided some VERY memorable moments (picture a large man wedged in the crook of a tree approximately forty feet off the ground trying to coax a very contented African Grey (she had everything she wanted <g>) across the six feet of separation by crinkling a plastic bag (Plastic bags contain shredded cheese)), I would not go revisit this decision for anything. I could write a forever post on the gracefulness exhibited by a bird flying and landing, the awe that I sometimes feel when one of them flies directly at me and lands on my chest (I had to learn to keep my eyes open to witness this - reflex is to shut them), and the sense of fairness I have in letting them fly. Yes, there are risks. But I'm not one to curtail an activity because there might be risks associated with it. I ride a motorcycle (primary vehicle), so what right do I have to tell my birds they can't fly? At some point in life I will attempt outdoors free flight. I have time, as Martha is only three years old. And should something bad happen, I'll accept it as a consequence of both of our decisions, mine to let Ms. Martha fly outdoors, and hers to take me up on it. But I'll never regret it as I will know in my heart that she lived as completely as she could. And isn't that what we're supposed to be striving for with our birds? 'nuff said.