Breeding my greys Help

[RyannsGreys]

So the short of it is I purchased a proven pair of 8 year old congo greys. They are stunning! Thier history. They have been together as a pair for all of their young adult life as a breeding pair. They had no toys in their previous cage.... just basic neseaties. please don't misunderstand... they were cared for. So what i have done so far... Ok, My hubby made a make shift breeder box (while we wait for our custom built one to come in) and attached it to the cage with bunggi cords... they have one huge perch and 4 feeding stations... I threw a bit of the bedding that came with them in their airport carrier in to the "nestbox"... and .... Thats it. The gentlemen whom I purchased this pair said leave them alone. Well, that is easier said then done.... I keep going up stairs and sitting with them and just watching them... I love them. Why did I buy a breedig pair? Well i was looking for a baby... a weaned baby to start a new with... Given the price of these guys versus a baby... I thought well gee I want tons of babys... i'll just start my own small bird family and the thought of offering babys for sale never entered my head... of course now.. i'm like well why not share they joy these guys bring! So, I jumped on the wagon and flew them to their forever home with me! Now, my questins are.... I live in new york... Is breeding season over for these guys? Don't laugh but I picked them up from the airport friday... yea, I have had them a 3 days ... LOL Im so crazy... The went in the box an slept in their overnight... They go in and out... I have seen them feeding each other. so now what? Do I do as he said and leave them totally alone, only bothering them to feed and clean water? I probably have 100 ?'s.... god be with you if you reply...LOL (Please reply)

[BMustee]

First off, do you know how to hand feed? Do you have the time to hand feed 4 to 5 times a day?

 

If the answer is no to ether one you should think twice before breeding.

 

Lets say that your greys do breed and you get babies...if you do not know how to handfeed or are not able to feed every day at 6am, 11am, 4pm, and 10pm which is the usual time table for feeding 2 week old baby greys, then your babies will be worthless in the pet trade. I do not breed greys, but I do raise the baby birds at the pet store I work at. We get the baby birds in at 2 to 6 weeks old and it is a round the clock job. I might leave work at 8pm, but I have to take the baby birds home and feed them at 10pm and then wake up at 5:30am to get them fed first thing. Also, not every baby is going to make it. I lost a 2 week old CAG not long ago from a mix of bacterial infection and a type of Parvo virus. Will you be able to deal with the loss? While on the topic, will you be able to afford the vet bills for the baby birds, the adults, and necropsies for birds that die? I read through your post in the welcome room and it sounds like you are new to parrots, so I'm guessing you have never hand fed. You should NEVER just "wing it" because a baby just pulled from the nest does not know how to "help" with the feeding and if you don't know exactly what you are doing you can asperate it VERY easily and it will be dead in a matter of minutes. Even if you only get a little bit of formula in the lungs and it doesn't die right then and there it will die from pneumonia within a week. If you feed the formula too hot you will burn a hole in the crop, and they can burn to the point that there is a hole all the way through and anything that goes in will spill out the hole into the body cavity or out of the body. Fed too cold will cause sour crop (crop stasis, which is food rotting in the crop) and will cause all kinds of problems...and more than likely death with someone not experianced. If the formula is not mixed right it will damage the bird as well. If it is made too thin then the babies will suffer from malnutrition and will ether be a sickly bird for life or die, if it is made too thick the babies can suffer from dehydration, crop impaction, and slow crop (leading to sour crop). Even experianced hand feeders will come across health issues with baby birds, and can easily treat them, but to someone that does not know what to watch for very simple and common issues can and will be deadly.

 

Now, if you just don't have the time to feed you really don't have many options. You may be able to sell them to a breeder that has the time, but your not going to get very much for them...maybe $100, if that. Even with that option you may not be able to get someone to take them, and then you would end up having to let the parents feed the baby. No one will buy a baby parrot that was not hand fed so would you be able to keep ALL those birds?

 

Also, you said you had a box held on the cage with bungee cords...are you sure it's secure? I ask because boxes are normally secured with wire and hooks. The bungee's just don't sound secure to me.

 

I may sound negative in this post but breeding parrots is not just fun and games and should only be done by someone experienced in all aspects of avian care.<br><br>Post edited by: BMustee, at: 2008/09/09 07:53

[Toni]

She's right she' not being negative just being realistic.I researched like 5 years before wanting a parrot of my dreams and about to breed DYH Amazons and researched it for a year and still researching since breeding season will be in April, May. Do research even if it takes a year. Go to a local pet store watch how they do that.I watched and done Alcazar.

[danmcq]

Enjoy your new Greys and become even more impressed with them. Read, Read, Read, ask questions and you may be ready for breeding season when it starts in the spring. :-)

[RyannsGreys]

Bmustee- When my first daughter was born in 1995, I had NO clue what to do, how to feed burp and change her. I Just "winged" it. She is now 13, well adjusted and a very happy smart little individual. I read hundreds of "mom-to-be" articles and asked a gazillion questions. If I posted that I was a first time mom-to-be, would you reply the same? There is no difference here with my little baby greys to be. Time? Money? I have plenty of both. I'm not bragging, but you asked. This is kind of like an investment. I do not plan to run a huge parrot farm with 100 caged mistreated parrots. There are avaiaries out there like that. Just a small little Avaiary from my home. My intent is to bring happy healthy little greys to the "pet trade" industry locally. If that means I have help and good advise, so be it. You have offered no advise and no encouragement. Doesn't your profile say you breed a specific bird as a hobby? Isn't a hobby fun? I will breed my greys and I will have fun doing so. I will learn and make mistakes the whole way threw as I did with both my daughters. I only know what I have heard and read regarding hand feedng and temps.

Since your so knowlegable and have a career in a pet store hand feeing chicks, why not offer up some of that info instead of trying to find out what I don't know and what I can't handle. Having said this, Thanks for your interest in my post! ~*~ Cheers ~*~

[Kaedyn]

A lot of people who aren't up to the task buy a pair of birds with the intention of breeding them, and it doesn't go very well to say the least. But obviously, everyone who breeds birds has to start somewhere and I think BMustee was just trying to make you aware of the realities. In some ways, raising parrots can be more difficult than raising children. We aren't their natural parents, we can't effectively communicate with them, and subtle non-obvious issues in their very short adolescence can have long lasting effects. I think like everyone here, we're all just very concerned with the well being of all birds and on the topic of breeding, you just got the "scared straight" talk.

 

That said. If you are serious about breeding, do all the research, and invest in all that's necessary, then there is no reason why you shouldn't become a great breeder. Just go into it with all the right intentions and place the birds well being before everything else.

 

My recommendation would be to find a respected breeder in your area and see if you can shadow them for a while. Ask a lot of questions.

[RyannsGreys]

The "Scared straight talk" C'mon. There is nothing either of you said that made me say, "Oh, I never thought of that". I have thought of everything and have covered all my bases... Althought repetative, I appreciate the recommendations.

[Kaedyn]

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww33eiii.htm

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww34eiii.htm

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww35eiii.htm

[BMustee]

You bring up having a baby...although I do not have nor plan to have any human children they are NOTHING like breeding and raising a clutch of parrot chicks. Plus, billions of people have babies that are productive members of society, so it's not something to brag about. When a human baby crys there is a level of human instinct that tells you what to do. We are not parrots and can not read from instinct what one cry means and a certain behavior is telling you with baby parrots...it is learned and I'm telling you from experience you can not learn these things from a book or Google. A baby human knows how to suckle from a breast...there isn't really much you can do to screw that up because evolution has made it that way. A parrot chick does not know how to eat from a syringe, and it's not human instinct that tells someone how to do it. Feeding a baby bird is a learned skill and if not done to a T it WILL KILL A BABY BIRD!!! You could kill a whole seasons worth of chicks if you just "do some reading" and don't learn how to do it from a breeder with years of experience. I don't think I have ever heard of a new mom aspirating a baby with breast milk or a bottle...but it is SOOOOOO common with people that buy an unweaned baby birds. If you only knew how many baby birds die every year due to an owner that didn't know what they were doing you wouldn't think it was going to be such a walk in the park.

 

As Toni put it, she has done years of research into ownership and breeding, she has watched and learned how to feed and feels it is the right time to start herself. From your original post it sounds like you got a breeder pair on impulse when you were looking into getting your first bird. Breeding is not something you say "oh gee, I'll get tons of babies...I'll just jump on the wagon!" I myself do breed birds...exotic finches. Finches and parrots are NOTHING alike, in a nutshell I just make sure the conditions and health are perfect for the parents...they do the rest. Although, I did not just walk into a pet store and buy 2 grand worth of finches and hope for the best. I started with a pair of Zebra as pets and went from there, now with multiple pairs of Stars, Owls, and Gouldians I breed for the pet store I work at. It took over 5 years to get to the point I am at now with them.

 

From your response to what I said I know exactly what your all about. All you wanted to hear was "good for you and go for it". The truth is you can't just light a few scented candles, play some Barry Manilow and POW you got babies. You say how about I pick your brain to find out what you know...You let everyone know you have time, money, and kids but you did not say if you knew how to hand feed or what your experience with birds is, which tells me your not really looking to learn anything...or should I say your not looking to learn something from someone that isn't going to say one bad thing to you.<br><br>Post edited by: BMustee, at: 2008/09/10 03:52

[Toni]

Woahh wait, Berna is just showing you the art of constructive criticism which is good.She's being realisitc. Sorry to say this raising kids is NOTHING like raising fids. I have two healthy boys one in Penn State the other electrician.I have a daycare which some good money and none of this has anything to do with raising fids.Everything is different.Its out of our instinct. Even feeding them is different.I didnt have to nurse my kids from my left their right because the way their esophagus is on their right side. All that is being said is do research before jumping into it. Don't just read you need to physically do it to. On this note. Good luck and have fun with it.

[RyannsGreys]

First of all , having a healthy well adjusted child IS something to brag about and be proud of. How dare you minimize that. Your only 22 sweety. Give it time. Two, No I haven't ever handfed a baby bird. I will learn and learn to do it correctly to ensure chicks are healthy and ALIVE. I didn't get any info from google OR a book. If you care so much you would go to the other forum and read my responce about my exper. to another member. One doesn't need years of "research" to learn to breed birds. Its a prefferance. And yes I came here to learn and get info. My wagon statement was made in fun. Of course I didn't buy in impulse. I know what its gonna try to succesfully see this threw. You can say as many bad thing as you like to me. I have plenty of stamina. I didn't tell everyone about my time and money. I responded to YOUR post. You asked. My reply was too YOU. You have no idea what I'm about. Don't assume anything about me. I'll be sure to surprise you. I care nothing to hear you say good for you. Frankly, there is more to handfeeding when raising parrots. Do you know anything else? You said I didn't want to learn anything from you... well, I'm open... What do you know.. You haven't offered up anything thats worth anything! Just critisism and finger pointing. Tell you what whats the name of the pet store your work for? I travel alot for now... maybe I'll stop by and you can give me some pointers! lol Balls in your court hun!

[RyannsGreys]

Thanks Toni. I do know of the left to right feeding. Kinda weird BUT I do know about it and I will have some hands on in a few days. A good friend of mine has inviting me to help out with her "load"! Im really looking forward to it! Congrats on your children it IS something to brag about and be proud of. The whole raising children thing was just to make a point! We ALL have to learn somehow, someway, sometime about anything we want to do in life be it raising birds or fyling planes. Thanks

[RyannsGreys]

Kaedyn- Thank you for the links. I have been to those sites a while ago. But very good info as a refresher.

[Sallas]

This post should be locked. It looks like tempers are getting pretty high here.

 

And RyannsGreys, when you tell one person something on the internet you have to think you are telling EVERYONE in the world that statement.

 

I think that BMustee was just trying to inform you that breeding birds is a lot of work and there is a lot of knowledge needed for the birds safety.

 

One thing that I noticed about this forum is there are a lot of people that are brutally honest. They do not mean for things to seem harsh, but it comes across that way (I think it is because they love the breed so much)<br><br>Post edited by: Sallas, at: 2008/09/10 18:00

[Talon]

WELL, WELL, WELL!

 

I first would like to thank BMustee, Toni, Danmcq, and Kaedyn for their replies. You have all offered wonderful advice. And seeing as this forum was built to help those who ask, and offer advice and share our experiences, I am happy that they were here to help. It is all in the safety of every precious bird out there. We all know they are extremely delicate, especially as babies. Many of us older members with YEARS of experience in African Greys, wouldn't dare try and breed without lots and lots of previous experience. It is so easy to accidentally and unintentionally have a baby die from lack of practice in hand feeding. The time to gain experience and practice is not from a fresh clutch left solely in your care, or from reading a book and researching on the internet. It is from working with experienced breeders who can TEACH you how to properly feed and care for them under their careful watch. A lack of experience in not knowing what to look for in health issues that can arise will kill them.

 

RyannsGreys:

You came to this forum looking for help, did you not? Your post says: BREEDING MY GREYS HELP

Well, your getting advice, and you are taking it and using it as personal attacks on the members here who HAVE the knowledge to help you. Take their advice. They know what they are talking about.

I will be watching this thread very closely, and if I see any more attacks on the members here by anyone, I will LOCK this thread.

Becoming a member here requires that everyone be treated with dignity and respect. I am seeing you get defensive and making personal attacks on others who are only trying to give you the advice you asked for. They have not insulted you, or disrespected you in any way shape or form. When you ask for advice, you take it, you can pick and choose as you wish, but you don't come back at them by verbually trying to pick a fight because you don't like the advice they give. That kind of behavior will not be tolerated. If it continues, YOU WILL BE BANNED.

 

Sincerely,

Penny/aka Talon

 

SALLAS: Thank you for your reply and getting my attention on my Blackberry in Starbucks! Karma for you!! B)<br><br>Post edited by: Talon, at: 2008/09/10 19:55

[BMustee]

In just the past three months I have raised Congos, Timnehs, Blue Crown Conures, Sun Conures, Yellow Nape Amazons, Vosmaeri Eclectus, and White Bellied Caiques…all of them are sweet as pie and sell for top dollar. I can’t even begin to tell you about some of the birds that have come in from breeders (which are now black-balled) that were timid, nippy, with little to no feeding response because the breeder did not know how to REALLY care for them. One example is a little grey that came to us. He did not like to be handled, didn’t have a feeding response, and didn’t play…he just sat there. After we had him a week you would never have guessed he was the same bird. He loves to cuddle, eats really well, and attacks his toys with such gusto that you would only see in a bird that is truly happy. I may seem harsh when people talk about breeding, but it is because I have seen what happens to baby birds that did not get the treatment a good breeder gives them and if you cared about birds a fraction of the amount I do you would see that what I say isn't to just slam people, but for the welfare of the birds.

 

Penny - I could not agree with your post more. What you said hit the nail on the head.<br><br>Post edited by: BMustee, at: 2008/09/10 20:17

[RyannsGreys]

First of all I will not stay quiet and be afraid of being banned for responding. I was inslulted by Bmustee. The "help" I was looking for was what I should or shouldn't do for the parent greys. 8 people responded with hand feeding babies. None of which by the way offered ANY real helpful information. Just jabs at me for the way I responded to bmustee. So ban me if you wish. This isn't the end all.

[BMustee]

You never did reply about the bungee cords on the nest box...and you will never get birds to breed in 3 days. I don't know what you were looking for, but you can find yourself the door

[Talon]

RyannsGrey:

 

No one asked you to remain quiet, I only asked you to treat the members who are trying to help you by letting you know every aspect of hand raising and feeding baby greys with the respect that all of us human deserve.

 

When you ask for help on any forum, you will receive many replies, some you like, some you don't. You take the advice you like and find helpful, and hopefully learn from it. You take the advice you don't like or disagree with, with a grain of salt, and ignore it.

 

Life is too short to be arguing and making a big deal out of things with people from all over the world that you most likely will never meet in person.

 

There is much information here in various threads that I think you will find very helpful to you. Just do a search in the search bar, and I think you will be happy with the information that you find. B)<br><br>Post edited by: Talon, at: 2008/09/10 21:32

[tarnold]

Funny thing about reading emails, posts, text messages , and so on is that since you dont hear a voice or see a face, someone can very easily take things the wrong way.

[RyannsGreys]

Tarnold... EXACTLY. I have said that a million times in my ebay emails and store front!!

[Talon]

That's the danger of the internet....