I seem to have created a 'step up' conundrum!

[neoow]

So I think I have managed to create a bit of a 'problem' with Alfie and stepping up. It's not major- but am just looking to see if anyone has any advice.

Over the years Alfie has been known to lunge and bite if he didn't want to step up. We went through a time when our trust broke down a bit and I had to re-evaluate if I was the best owner/home for Alfie. Long story short, I was able to make some changes to my life and living arrangements to improve things for us both.

I am still sometimes a bit wary of Alfie lunging/biting. Although he doesn't normally break the skin it still hurts and I feel it sets us back. So I always try and read his cues and avoid the possibility of a bite. It's been working well.

One of the things I did during this time when we were rebuilding our trust was use a wooden dowel perch for him to step up on if I needed to transfer him somewhere else or get him back in his cage. That meant if I read it wrong and he decided to lunge, it would be the stick that would get the damage and not me. When I was more confident about things I would use my arm (he doesn't step up for a hand, only my wrist - always has). This was generally fine. Alfie gradually learned that he didn't need to lunge to tell me "no" - he could just turn away and I would respect that and back off.

I've now noticed though that more often than not, he will refuse to step up on my arm but will willingly step up for the perch. So I'll offer an arm and say 'step up' and he'll back off/turn away. I back off (because otherwise I know I'll get bitten). I go and fetch the wooden dowel and he hops straight on it before I've even said "step up"

Very occasionally he will step up on my arm and I will heavily praise this and offer a treat. When he steps up on the wooden dowel he gets a treat and a 'good boy'. 

It's not a major problem - but I would like to try and swing it back so he's more reliably stepping up on my arm- as this helps if we're visiting my parents or elsewhere where I don't have a wooden dowel handy. However, I know that if he refuses the arm and I go back and ask a second time, he's probably going to lunge... especially if I'm not confident in my movements and ask. (He seems to be able to read me SO well!) Any advice for trying to improve this?

[Talon]

Gosh, I dont know what to advise. If he likes the dowel, I would just use that until he is so comfortable with that & time goes on that he forgets about stepping up on you & biting.  can you take the dowel with you to your parents?  Als, my 2 greys & my 1 amazon will step up onto my arm, but really don't prefer it as there is nothing to really grab onto, and your skin can slide..grap your arm tight with your hand & twist it, your skin isn't firm & it's easier for them to lose balance & fall. they prefer something they can dig their claws into if need be. He might like the dowel because he can wrap his claws & hold on tight making him feel more secure.   I offer my hand in moments of being unsure about getting bit, but ALWAYS make a fist, if you have a tight fist, there really isn't much to bite or latch onto.  

I would contiune with the high praise & reward when he does what you like, but replace your arm with a sturdier item.  keep us posted & Good luck.  remember be patient as we live in their time which passes slowly vs our hurry up world!

[Greytness]

Have you tried offering him a favorite treat while positioning your arm or hand behind him so he'll be distracted while stepping back onto you? Whenever my greys put out a spicy mood vibe, I'll grab a snow pea pod, offer it and while they're taking a bite they'll automatically step back onto my waiting wrist.

[neoow]

I did wonder if it was balance related as obviously my arm isn't going to be as rigid/secure as the dowel- especially if I have long sleeves on. I have no problem continuing with the dowel but it would obviously be more convenient not to have to have one to hand just in case. Also there are times where I approach him expecting him to lunge/bite- which obviously makes me nervous... so that doesn't help. I find on the times where I approach feeling more confident, he is more likely to step up on the arm. So that's definitely something for me to work on and improve. The daftest thing is, he hasn't actually bitten me in a long long time because I've gotten much better at understanding his cues over the years.

I'm more planning ahead for this one because at the moment I have two indoor cats as well, so Alfie mostly spends time downstairs. But my cats are aging and not going to be around forever (as sad as that makes me) so I'm thinking more to when he has the run of the whole house and I may wish for him to step up somewhere else in the house. I don't necessarily want to have a dowel in every room or have to run and find where I last left one for him to step up. 🤣

I always offer a treat whenever I ask him to step up (or for any of his tricks/commands) but if the treat is too close he will just take it without stepping up. I've not managed to get him to step up from behind as he always spins round to face my hand/arm or the dowel. He always wants to step up going forwards, not backwards and he doesn't like being approached from the tail end, which is why he always turns.

It's by no means a serious problem or concern, just I'm out of ideas of how I can try and encourage him top step up for my arm more readily.

One thing I did think of earlier today is putting my hand/arm nearby but not asking for the step up. And just getting him (and me) used to having my hand/arm near him but not necessarily needing him to do anything with it. Almost to get myself more confident that he's not going to lunge/bite and him to realise that he doesn't need to resort to a lunge/bite. He can turn a bit aggressive if I am doing things near him, so I tend to keep my hands out of reach and redirect him away from whatever it is I might be doing- e.g typing, wiping a surface down, eating etc etc. So maybe that's something to try and work on first- with me rewarding him for being near my hands and not lunging or biting.

Sometimes it's difficult to know exactly what's going on inside their feathery heads! 

[Talon]

I totally get this!  He has communicated to you he doesn't like things from behind & it is great you underatnd that & respect it.  There is no nail polish or a ring he might not like on your hand or wrist?   When you ask him to step up onto your hand, what part of your hand are you using & where do you place your hand?  Also, he will feel your hesitation, so always be confident & if you do get bit, don't react, they love to get emotion out of you & that will quickly reinforce his biting behavior when stepping up.  

Sometimes when I expect a bite, I will lay my hand flat & strong, palm down. I always place it at the belly just above their feet, placement can be everything.  Let us know

[Timbersmom]

I think there is a lot to the "unsteadiness" of an arm. Timber has a hand thing so hands are out. It has to be my forearm. I've noticed when he's on my arm he's adjusting to keep balance and fight slipping. I usually grab the bottom of my sleeve and make sure the surface he steps on is tight, which really helps. I can see that being at least a part of it.

[Talon]

51 minutes ago, Timbersmom said:

I think there is a lot to the "unsteadiness" of an arm. Timber has a hand thing so hands are out. It has to be my forearm. I've noticed when he's on my arm he's adjusting to keep balance and fight slipping. I usually grab the bottom of my sleeve and make sure the surface he steps on is tight, which really helps. I can see that being at least a part of it.

Totally 100% agree with you!  If they aren't fully trusting you, that is an issue for sure. They need to feel secure when they are perched.

[neoow]

No rings or nail polish as I don't wear either. 

He won't ever step up on my fingers/hand so I offer with the wrist closest to him. He'll step up for a wrist and will normaly stay there or a little further up the forearm. He's a "no shoulder" bird because he won't come off a shoulder easily and will usually try and find an ear to munch so I can't trust him there. So when we move around he'll stay on my forearm.

I have tried to encourage him to stay on my hands instead in the last but he always shimmies up to my forearm. I read something about putting a thumb up so he can't get up the arm so I tried that during recall training once. He landed on my hand, bit the thumb and then when I moved it he went straight on to my wrist. 🤣 So he knows what he wants and he is not easily fooled!

I typically keep my hands in a fist as well so that if he does decide to lunge then it's harder to get a finger or much of a grip. 

This evening he was on the dinner table when it was time to go to bed so I walked over with the dowel and held it about a foot away from him. He came straight over and stepped up. By comparison if I had done the same with my arm he would have walked the other way, despite treats being on offer. 

I think it's just an accidental habit/routine we've managed to form over the years. I'll keep working on it with him and see how it goes.

[Talon]

Well, it seems he has decided what he likes & what makes him feel most comfortable. Maybe just continue to let him dictate his step up comfort level & don't try & do anything different. In time you most likely will find that he decided to change things up once he feels totally secure & trusting that you will always do the same thing each time. It can be frustrating for you, but he is probably frustrated that he never knows how your gonna try & get him to step up. when he is ready, he will let you know by doing something different. I think patience is the key...:)

[neoow]

Just a slight update on this one. I found and purchased a smaller handheld perch as I figured that would be much easier to carry around to different places with me. It came with a plastic 'guard' that I don't think I can detach (although haven't tried to yet in case I break it). I've had it for a good few weeks and have been slowly introducing it to Alfie. He wasn't keen at first because it was something different. So I took it slow and just got him used to touching it with his beak and rewarding him with treats when he did.

He hasn't stepped up on it and usually runs away if I ask him to step up on it. I haven't forced the issue. But tonight, he decided now was the time that he would step up and let me walk him round the room. Lots of praise ensued so he knew it was a good thing. So here he is, on his new portable perch!

(I just noticed I had it the wrong way round with the plastic guard pointing in the wrong direction haha)

[Timbersmom]

I can't see the pics, drat! Glad you found a solution though. Those picky, picky, picky birds. Timber has decided he only wants to step up if I'm wearing a certain navy hoodie, so it permanently resides on my snack bar stool.

[neoow]

Hmm. I wonder if it's because I did it on my phone... can you see them now?

[Timbersmom]

Yes! Look at him standing proud on there. Timber won't step up on anything but my arm (and only in the hoodie). Good for you!

[Talon]

Love the pics!  He's adorable!