Estate Planning for My Parrots

[Talon]

Hi, I hope I get some responses & opinions.  I am doing estate planning for myself ( I am almost 63 & getting things in place early) 

I have very young parrots, 1 Amazon 12 years old & a BIG handful, (hates all women, except me)  2 African Greys, both will be 18 years old this year....I have NO ONE who can take them, or really wants them.....I dont want them to go to a rescue as there aren't any in my area.  It is troublesome for me.....the stress they will go thru, as they are pretty spoiled & set in their ways.......

I have a friend who rescues Mccaw's, they are true rescues & not rehome able..She has made arrangements that when she passes, they will be euthanized so as not to go thru the stress of what would become of them. Although I was SHOCKED at her choice when I first heard this.....as time goes on & I have given it alot of thought, it seems best for them. They will never know , they will just go to sleep. 

Being caged birds, it really is cruel to all parrots as they don't have the benefit of living a fulfilled life like a cat or dog.  They are our "slaves" so to speak, in their cages when we say so, out when we allow it.  My parrots get out as much as possible when I am not working, they are out, flying freely thru the house, perches EVERWHERE, my house looks like a giant bird cage.... BUT,will they have this if left to another person, ..being separated from each other, living in a new home, new rules, new environment, new routines, new everything, food, treats, new people who handle them in a way they don't know, possibly someone clipping their wings so they never fly again..imagine what all this would do to them physologically..... Yes, I know some parrots will adapt, but with 3,,,I feel they will definitely suffer trauma, quite possibly alot.

Then there is the issue of leaving enough funds to care for them..will it go to their care or will the new owners spend it on other things,  could another owner have the money needed?  All things I am quite concerned over. I owe it to my parrots to give them the best possible life as long as possible. I know I can't control their lives once I am gone..that's the problem, they don't deserve LESS than, & I don't want that for them. they deserve the best life possible as long as they are here, I OWE THEM THAT!

 

So  I guess my question is......what is crueler, putting your parrots to sleep upon your death..or the trauma they will go thru as they mourn the loss of their lives & us that love them unconditionable.....as they know it ? 

Pretty dark & deep, I know   

[Greytness]

I've been wrestling with the same thoughts. You can create a trust for your birds, but you will have to designate someone to oversee their care. That's the difficult part for me, as no one will feed and care for my birds the way I do. And I have 11!

[Timbersmom]

I'm blessed in that I have two children who would take Timber when the time comes. Will they feed him exactly like I do? Probably not. However, I know he is adaptable since I am his third home (at least) and he has bonded to me. Also, he already knows and accepts the kids, which is a good start.

In your situations, I understand it is more difficult. Just my opinion, but where there is life there is hope. While the person who takes your flock members when the time comes may not be ideal, there is no way of knowing if your birds would be "happy" or not, and my initial thought is give them a chance. I'll admit, as Talon implied, I often wonder how satisfying Timber's life is. However, it is all he's ever known. Being hatched in captivity, he's never flown free in the wild or lived a "normal" life. So, I need to believe he is at least content. And, I think he could be content in his next home too.

Have you thought about reaching out to some of the forum members (like SRSeedburners) who are younger and might be willing to take on more flock members? Or maybe your avian vet who may know other younger bird enthusiasts who might be willing? Just a thought.

It's a quandary I know, and like many other things, there is no perfect answer.

[Talon]

20 hours ago, Greytness said:

I've been wrestling with the same thoughts. You can create a trust for your birds, but you will have to designate someone to oversee their care. That's the difficult part for me, as no one will feed and care for my birds the way I do. And I have 11!

Yes, I don't have that kind of $$ for a trust..

11 is hard to plan for...do you have thoughts on their care?

[Talon]

43 minutes ago, Timbersmom said:

I'm blessed in that I have two children who would take Timber when the time comes. Will they feed him exactly like I do? Probably not. However, I know he is adaptable since I am his third home (at least) and he has bonded to me. Also, he already knows and accepts the kids, which is a good start.

In your situations, I understand it is more difficult. Just my opinion, but where there is life there is hope. While the person who takes your flock members when the time comes may not be ideal, there is no way of knowing if your birds would be "happy" or not, and my initial thought is give them a chance. I'll admit, as Talon implied, I often wonder how satisfying Timber's life is. However, it is all he's ever known. Being hatched in captivity, he's never flown free in the wild or lived a "normal" life. So, I need to believe he is at least content. And, I think he could be content in his next home too.

Have you thought about reaching out to some of the forum members (like SRSeedburners) who are younger and might be willing to take on more flock members? Or maybe your avian vet who may know other younger bird enthusiasts who might be willing? Just a thought.

It's a quandary I know, and like many other things, there is no perfect answer.

Thank you, all wonderful things to think about. My avian vet retired many years ago..there is no avian vet near me anymore.  My vet for my cat & dog doesnt know anyone..I hope & pray in the next 10 or 20 years ( I exoect to be here) God will help me find someone who will love them & do right by them.  I intended for my daughter to take them & find homes for them, but she has a rescue dog that attacks birds so they can't go to her for now...in 10 or 20 years, I pray things change..I know I can trust she will do right by them if that means they go to new homes..:/

[Greytness]

3 hours ago, Talon said:

Yes, I don't have that kind of $$ for a trust..

11 is hard to plan for...do you have thoughts on their care?

I'm still agonizing over what to do. I may end up adding on a trust for them. My flock is relatively young as well, and most will likely still be alive when my time comes. For now I'm working on writing out bios for each bird explaining their likes, idiosyncracies, food habits, routines etc. I also have a list of places my kids can look into to hopefully find good homes. 

Of my 11, I think my kids would keep 2 of the greys and possibly the 2 dusky conure clowns. My husband will care for them should I pass first, but he's not really a big bird person.

[LNCAG]

Thanks for posting this.  Planning is so crucial.  I am blessed to have a local sanctuary where 3 of my flock currently reside.  Mine are always happy when I visit, but they tend to fly away from me before I leave -- they have made parrot friends and have their own lives now.  They get emotional when I visit, seem so delighted to see me again, but as I mentioned, before I leave, they are already being distracted by their parrot friends who want them to go play, cuddle or what have.  Granted mine were well socialized and easily transitioned.  It was bittersweet -- I wanted them to be happy, but I suppose selfishly, I also wanted them to really miss me.  My sanctuary has many large designated enclosures (well, the place has macaws with other macaws, amazons with other amazons, etc..)  Eggs are taken -- no breeding allowed.  It's a forever home -- they never adopt out. 

I also wondered if euthanasia would be best.  I knew I didn't want my guys to go into private homes.  I couldn't trust someone else to give them the home I'd given them (I had my guys for 20 years).  I know people get bored with parrots and parrots are nearly always rehomed many times during their lives.  After the novelty wears off, many parrots never get time out of the cage or receive fresh chopped fruits/veggies, rice, noodles, "people food" etc..  Many are lucky if their water is changed regularly, many end up on all seed diets.  I just write all this out because it's all our fears, really.

I kept my grey though and he is still with me.  I only kept my Snickers, CAG, because he is an intense parrot and very attached to me -- had him almost 26 years now.  So I do get it.  But I admit, now having visited my guys at the sanctuary for 6 years, they also have an excellent grey set up there too (they have 2 huge grey enclosures so that greys who get along well are kept together in one or the other) and all their greys seem happy and active there.  Actually, there is a third enclosure (smaller) where a lone grey resides.  He was bullied so gets the benefit of being near other greys without having them pick on him,  No idea the full story there but he seemed happy (talking, curious, NOT doing repetitive crazy behaviors or feather picking or anything).        

When I die (or sooner, since I become more disabled by the day) my grey will also go to that sanctuary.  I say do your research, make sure it's a place with good back-ups in place, a board of directors, a place that gets lots of funding.  I had to pay big bucks to place mine.  

And if you decide to euthanize instead, well, I get that too.  And if you decide on a trust for them, knowing ahead of time who will take them -- I get that too.

I was lucky a sanctuary was created just 20 minutes from me.  I am in a rural area and so is the sanctuary.   The macaw run at mine is 60 feet long.  Not the same as free in the wild, but still, they do fly, have lots of fresh healthy stuff to feast on, friends to groom (and be groomed) and have lots of stuff to climb on.  The guy who opened mine had macaws and saw a need -- his were the first parrots in the sanctuary -- now it has a staff and 450+ parrots. 

Don't rule out sanctuaries if one isn't near you -- if you're dead, you wouldn't be able to visit anyway.  I am disabled, hence the blessing of placing 3 of my 4 before my death and getting to see them happy and settled.  My only goal is my parrots be happy and healthy.  But happy most of all.  

Sorry this is so long.  But I've been down this path, and Snickers will also go down this path. 

[Greytness]

I appreciate your very insightful post, LNCAG. If only our local sanctuaries allowed their birds to remain flighted. That was the game changing reason why I won't consider them. You are very fortunate to have such a phenomenal one within your area.

May I ask where your sanctuary is located? If I was nearing my end and had not found any wonderful homes for my flock I would relocate them if it meant they'd be able to remain flighted and  kept on healthy fresh diets.

[LNCAG]

@Greytness I messaged you the location and name.   

Not sure what you mean by 'flighted' -- sorry.  My parrots' wings weren't clipped.  But they're not loose in the wild -- they are in enclosures -- some very large which allows flying around.  Some parrots can't even fly, so they just climb around.  Enclosure size depends on parrot size and quantity, I suppose.   Mine only recently built a larger macaw enclosure.  

They have a kitchen built on the premises, making such things as pasta and veg casseroles for the parrots.  Plus they do provide seed and pellet mixes, fresh fruit/veg and can't get enough nuts!!!

Mine receives a lot of donations.  When I could get around better, I would buy up and donate the bagged nut mixes the grocery stores have at xmas time -- the larger birds just dote on them.

 

The thing is, the guy who started this sanctuary was just like us.  He needed a place for his own parrots to be free -- to be outside, to fly -- mostly just to not be caged.  And now people from all over contact him with birds needing a forever home and sanctuary.  Some, like my parrots, were planned additions.  Some parrots are abused/neglected and rescued (by police, etc.) and end up there too.

[Greytness]

Thank you! My birds aren't clipped and are agile flyers, which is what I mean by their being flighted.

This sounds like a wonderful option. Will definitely take a look! Thank you again.

[Talon]

Greytness & LNCAG,  I can't thank you enough for your thoughtfulness on this topic & not "shaming" me for my thoughts as I go thru this difficult topic & decison.

  There are no sanctuary's remotely close to me. Also if I make the arrangements now, being 62, it could be (hopefully) quite some time before this need arises & whose to say the sanctuary would still be there?  Another worry....

LNCAGI love that you have made arrangements as the need arose... that would be my hope I could do the same.  I imagine my partner would keep my amazon, they really like each other, but not certain. He is 28 years younger & won't even discuss what happens "if" when I talk about it..not worth the argument even tho I try.  He J-just doesnt want to hear it, so I will make whatever arrangements need be so things are in place. 

My hope is he will take her, & my daughter would do what is best with the others. She would either try & find them a really nice home or do what is necessary if she can't. Haven't yet discussed it with her, but I will soon. I am meeting with an Elder lawyer for estate planning soon & we will have this discussion as well.  

I am so relieved that I am not the only one struggling with this topic.  As it so happened this was posted this week on my FB & it really hit home....

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fbfeatheredfriends/permalink/6752566988090152/

[LNCAG]

5 hours ago, Talon said:

>>>>>> Greytness & LNCAG,  I can't thank you enough for your thoughtfulness on this topic & not "shaming" me for my thoughts as I go thru this difficult topic & decison.<<<<<

Well, please don't shame me, but my grey is well over 35 years old, minimum.  Could be much older than I know.  And I confess, knowing I have to make the decision to place him (probably sooner than later) ... that I sometimes wish I'd wake up one morning and find he'd have died peacefully in the night.  Horrors, I know.    I love him so much and while I am sure he may be happy at the sanctuary... I do think of that poor grey I saw a few years ago in an enclosure by himself because he couldn't make friends there.  My greatest fear is that the sanctuary may be hit or miss with my grey. 

My favorite parrot was actually Sami -- my b&g macaw -- yet the parrot I kept was the one I thought needed me the most -- Snickers CAG.  And so weird that Sami made friends at the sanctuary, having other macaws to preen with and play with and all. She is happy. And I know, could she choose her own forever home, in spite of our closeness, bonding and cuddling of 20 years together,  I believe she might actually choose the sanctuary over having stayed with me.  I could never have given her the friends and freedom she has found.  And it hurts, a little.  But truly, her happiness is more important than mine. 

I'm 57, can barely walk, in chronic pain.  It's a struggle each day Snickers remains with me.  It exhausts me to care for him.  Just chopping some fruit and veg, removing soiled papers, carrying him from his cage to my sofa... well, you get it. It's a difficult and taxing effort.  Who knows, I should probably go on and place him in the sanctuary tomorrow and just concentrate on my own health. 

No shaming from me in this thread.  I get this more than, possibly, anyone else here.   

[I am very angry sometimes at the careless breeding of captive parrots -- without a thought to their long lifespans -- to the fact they have to end up somewhere in the end.  Most outlive us.  Please don't judge me too harshly for my honesty.]

 

[Greytness]

Many of us have been agonizing over the same thing. 

I brought home my first bird at the age of 54. At first I wasn't going to, knowing they'd outlive me. But then my friend said it doesn't matter how long they spend with  you. It matters what kind of life you are able to provide them for as long as you are able.  <3

[LNCAG]

I was 30 when I adopted my first 'parrot' - a cockatiel.  I'd had zebra finches for years but not quite the same thing.  Next year got my b&g macaw.  I had a husband, and I don't guess I really thought much about who'd take care of the parrots when I died.  Or if I got really disabled (I was disabled then, but got about pretty well).  I just figured it would all work out somehow. 

Time flies!  And needed threads like this come up! 

I'm enjoying learning how others approach this dilemma.

[neoow]

I got Alfie when I was 17 (20 years ago!) and I still worry that he could potentially outlive me. I don't currently have anyone that would willingly take him on. My sister has always been terrified of him. I hoped my nephew might take an interest and therefore be a candidate when he's older (and no longer living at home!) but I'm not sure he's particularly interested in animals. He's only 9 atm so that may change I guess. I'd much prefer to know where Alfie was going to end up- e.g with someone I know and trust. But I may have to rely on a sanctuary or a rescue and trust that they can do right by him instead.

Euthanasia isn't on my radar as an option for Alfie. I understand why others may consider it so there's no judgement there. 

[LNCAG]

@neoowThe euthanasia option probably does seem extreme; I get it because the thought of your dear parrot living but being unhappy is horrific.  I am realizing now how extremely blessed I am that I have a nearby sanctuary I trust.  I truly had no idea how rare such places really were.    I was typing if I had a magic wand I'd wish everyone had a good sanctuary nearby (but I backspaced),  realizing I'd instead I'd use that wand to make everyone here healthy forever instead so they could keep their parrots!

I called the guy there at my sanctuary and have set it up for my Snickers to go in mid-April.  So I am fairly sad at the moment.  Yet hopeful for my Snickers.

I have serious PAD in my right leg -- my leg is dying.  I've got other serious health concerns, but my mobility is my main concern.  I can barely walk these days, and I need to see my boy settled and happy.  Happy most of all for Snickers, though perhaps not happy for me.  I will miss and grieve for Snickers.   Without the sanctuary. euthanasia would be a serious consideration otherwise.  I just don't want my guy to be unhappy.  I owe him a good life after me.  

  

[Talon]

LNCAG, 

Thank you for sharing.  I appreciate the concern & respect you shared.  MY heart breaks for you, knowing in your heart you are doing the best for Snickers..try & find some comfort in that.  I pray for you & Snickers.  ❤️

 

I have met with an Elder Lawyer. I want to avoid any will and probate, so most everything is in a trust. I have a verbal agreement with my daughter as to how she will handle my 3 if they outlive me and are still here . I have complete trust in her and I know she will honor my wishes and do what is best for them at that time.  

[LNCAG]

Awww, thanks for some support.

Overall, I feel good about my decision.  It's sort of less about concerns re: Snicker's happiness - I truly believe he will get a good life there.  And he can fly -- I don't clip him.   So, um, yay for freedom!

It's really more about selfish me missing him.  If for whatever reason his sanctuary placement doesn't work out -- he will be cared for and at least be around other greys even if in an enclosure on his own.  But I have a feeling he will probably fit in well though, and gain many friends (or perhaps even a girlfriend) there.   The owner of the sanctuary once took in a severely self-plucked parrot he ended up having to keep in his own home -- no parrot there gets poor treatment regardless of their ability to adapt at the sanctuary.  This guy (Ces) is a big-time parrot lover.  Very empathetic and sensitive to parrot needs. 

There will be super hot days and super cold days when I will question my decision to place my guys (and worry for them) -- but I have to make my decision based on the norm days, when he will have friends and eat well.

I didn't really mean to come off "I've been through this and know the deal more than you guys" but I have been through it before, and am needing to go through it again with Snickers.  That's all I meant, no offense to anyone.  I just ended up with poor health earlier in life, and had to reach this point sooner than many.  Thankful this is years away for most of you.  Love, huggs, good wishes to others here.  And PM me if you want to know location and more details about my local sanctuary. 

I write so much because my mind is spinning and thinking about Snicker's placement 24/7.  And about how much I will miss him. 

[Greytness]

I wondered about what they do for the birds whenever it gets super hot or cold there. The aviaries didn't appear to have any places where they could find shade or warmth as needed. 

[LNCAG]

@Greytness Yup.  Parrot freedom has its costs.

Ours has enclosures where a large corner (picture a 15-20 foot triangle with that clear greenhouse-style roofing material) is affixed on top and sides with extra perches beneath it.  Gets them out of the sun, wind, rain, etc..  That said, while they may prefer to sleep in that corner together at night -- they actually prefer (daytimes) being out in the open even in rain, wind (even snow - which is rare here, but it happens every few years).  They just acclimate like the outdoor birds.  Hence they accept no new parrots in hot summer or winter -- parrots must arrive in spring or fall to acclimate.  That's why Snickers will go mid-April.  Though overall, it's a mild climate here. 

Late/early placements often end up indoors until temps are good.  We had crazy unusual cold temps here a week after I placed my first parrots there in April 2017 -- Ces ended up removing them from the sanctuary and taking them inside for a week (he actually took them into his own home).  There is also an indoor garage area in a true emergency (hurricanes (sort of rare here) or such) but it is a HUGE deal to move all the parrots indoors -- must be a true emergency to do so.  I used to have a cool picture of the hundreds of cages in that garage one year when we got a hurricane (which thankfully turned out to be no big deal).  But what a chore they had to move all these guys indoors for it.  

[neoow]

I have no doubt how hard that decision must have been but I'm glad you have such an amazing sanctuary that you know and trust for him to go to.

Years ago I was trying to make the decision about whether or not I was the right human for Alfie. Life had taken over and my free time was limited so I wasn't giving Alfie all of the time and attention he deserved. I agonised over the options of whether to rehome or not and it was awful to have gotten to that point in the first place. Thankfully it all worked out- I made changes and dropped some commitments plus I moved house and had a better space that worked for the both of us. I'm also very lucky in that Alfie is a resilient little guy and has been pretty quick to adapt to changes over the years. We all just want to do what's best for our birds at the end of the day and sometimes that comes with some heart-breaking decisions!

I'm sure Snickers will adapt to his new environment and at least you know exactly where he's going and what level of care he will receive. It'll obviously take time for you to get used tot he idea of him going there and adapting to not having him around and I really feel for you for having to make that decision/change.

[LNCAG]

@neoow I remember you posting about wanting the best for Alfie and considering what to do.  You love your guy as I do mine -- you get wanting your guy to be happy.  It's one of the reasons I've loved this forum - like minded people.  People who continue to love and treasure their parrots.  For us, parrots aren't just a novelty -- they are a lifetime commitment!

[Talon]

LNCAG, what state are you in if you don't mind.  I am sure you have told us, but I need a refresher!

I have an outdoor bird (screened) room on part of my deck, it has an enclosed roof, so sadly no sunshine comes in. Out of my 3 it is my Amazon that LOVES it out there, my 2 greys wont have any part of it unless I go out in it and they stay on my shoulder for a bit...quickly wanting to go back inside if I DARE to try & leave then there. It is attached to my living room where there is a window I can open so its easy to go back in when they desire..which for my Amazon rarely..but my greys are NOW!!  

[LNCAG]

@Talon  I missed your question and am just now seeing it -- I am in eastern NC -- about 55 miles from the coast.  

My sanctuary is called Cape Fear Parrot Sanctuary located in Pink Hill, NC -- some 20 minutes or so away from me.

They have a website but also a youtube channel named Cape Fear Parrot which doesn't have many videos but there are a few showing the sanctuary where my guys live now.  They keep improving the sanctuary, so they have more enclosures (and larger enclosures) as time goes by -- esp big deal is the 60 foot long macaw enclosure!  They also have a facebook page you can follow.  Ces Erdman is the guy who started the sanctuary and spends most his days there. 

It'd be so cool if others were inspired to open their own parrot sanctuary.  They started with rented land, then raised funds to purchase the land -- have added buildings like a kitchen, gift shop, etc.  Started small and grew.  They have gotten grants as well as private donations. 

 

[Timbersmom]

You are blessed to have something nice so close. There is nothing like that in my area.