Hello!

[A.K]

Hi!

Okay so my name is A.K (no, you’re not finding out my real one) and I’m thinking of buying an African Grey. Currently, I’m in Columbus, Ohio. If anyone reading this is also in the area, any good vets, breeders, bird stores, you know of? Also, is there some kind of criteria that an African Grey owner should meet? If so, what are they? I’d appreciate any help!

[neoow]

Hi A.K, welcome to the forums!

There is a wealth of information here so it's worth taking some time to read back through the archives.

I'm afraid I can't point you in the direction of any any vets/breeders/rescues etc in your area as I'm across the pond in the UK.

In terms of criteria for living with parrots and greys in particular I'd probably go with the following:
- You need to have lots of time. Parrots need lots of time and attention. They aren't just going to sit in the corner looking pretty. They want to be involved in the family (their flock) as much as possible. Someone once described parrots as being like toddlers with a can opener attached to their face. I can't agree with this more!
- You need to be patient. This is so important with greys. They do everything in their own time. You can't rush them. They can be extremely change adverse at times... new toys are scary! New perches will eat them! Sometimes even new hairstyles/clothes on their human's are worrisome too. You have to work at their pace, not yours.
- You need to be tolerant. Parrots are not domesticated animals like dogs and cats. They are smart, intelligent beings with a lot of their wild instincts left. They will quickly learn how to push your buttons. They can be noisy, they are messy, they can be destructive. They can be trained but positive reinforcement is key. Parrots will never react well to shouting or punishments.

Greys make for wonderful pets and companions. They will quickly take over your life and you'll never remember what it was like before you had one. And yes, they are a massive commitment - basically similar to having a child. But they are incredibly rewarding in their own very unique way.

[A.K]

Thanks Neoow! I have been reading through the archives a lot. How much time do you recommend with a CAG? I work (away from home) from 8 to 3, but I’m willing to wake up as early as it takes (5 am) and I can spend time with him/her from 3 - 8 pm. I know that they need a LOT of mental stimulation, so when I say ‘spend time,’ I mean ‘out of cage time,’  playing with toys, maybe going outside (in the cage, with me beside him/her) Basically playing. Is that okay? 

[Greytness]

Hi AK,

Welcome! I recognize you from another forum. As Neoow has said, everything you need is at your fingertips in the archives. Tremendous info that you won't find anywhere else!

[A.K]

Ha ha, yes! Avian Avenue! I’ve an account on that as well. I felt like I was annoying people with my endless questions (I’m just that kind of person, the people on AA are lovely) so, I thought why not ask here! I’ll be sure to go through the rest of the information in these forums… 

[SRSeedBurners]

Oh wow, I completely forgot about AA.   I may have to go back for a visit...or maybe I got the boot from there and can't go back 🤣

[SRSeedBurners]

I'm having a bout of stupid and cant seem to edit my previous post but since I'm not from Ohio I'll just throw my $.06 in (inflation, sorry) about their pros/cons.

 

I consider Greys at or near the top of the heap when it comes to intelligence levels of animals.    That comes with a lot of possible baggage.  If they are mistreated, abused etc they will remember and may suffer consequences.  Lots of FB posts about 'why is my bird plucking'.  No one really knows why, some find solutions, many never do.   My first Grey lives the over-pampered, meticulously cared for life and one day I went into their bird room only to see a pile of feathers on the ground and my precious Grey girl sitting there looking ragged as hell.  It broke my heart as I thought, here we go, never thought it would happen to me.   Thankfully she stopped after a few months and the only thing we can attribute it to was a hawk encounter.   She is prone to freaking out when she is not with me.  Yes they can become very co-dependent.   It worries me when I see someone with only one Grey.  I feel like they do need a companion for when you are not there.  That's sort of how we got Huey, our #2.

 

I think a good Grey parront is
- patient (you'll need a lot of this)
- hard-working (they need good servants to clean up after themselves)
- a great cook (a varied diet is best)
- moderately wealthy (hey, they need toys and stuffs, vet care, cages, foods etc)
- always there (whatever plans you had, cancel them, Greybie wants you, Greybie needs you)

They are a HUGE commitment if you treat them as they should be treated.   Lots of people lock them up and throw away the key because they had absolutely no idea what they are getting into.  I see tons of rescue stories where I'd like to find the culprits and beat them.   When I was younger I wanted a monkey.  I thank God that I was too poor to ever go through on that stupid impulse.   I see videos of pet monkeys occasionally and can't fathom what it requires to care for one of those.   Greys aren't anywhere near that commitment but they are a time-sink.   

 

This says it all so beautifully....

Edited February 3, 2022 by SRSeedBurners

[Greytness]

Very well said, @SRSeedBurners.
 

[A.K]

18 hours ago, SRSeedBurners said:

I'm having a bout of stupid and cant seem to edit my previous post but since I'm not from Ohio I'll just throw my $.06 in (inflation, sorry) about their pros/cons.

 

I consider Greys at or near the top of the heap when it comes to intelligence levels of animals.    That comes with a lot of possible baggage.  If they are mistreated, abused etc they will remember and may suffer consequences.  Lots of FB posts about 'why is my bird plucking'.  No one really knows why, some find solutions, many never do.   My first Grey lives the over-pampered, meticulously cared for life and one day I went into their bird room only to see a pile of feathers on the ground and my precious Grey girl sitting there looking ragged as hell.  It broke my heart as I thought, here we go, never thought it would happen to me.   Thankfully she stopped after a few months and the only thing we can attribute it to was a hawk encounter.   She is prone to freaking out when she is not with me.  Yes they can become very co-dependent.   It worries me when I see someone with only one Grey.  I feel like they do need a companion for when you are not there.  That's sort of how we got Huey, our #2.

 

I think a good Grey parront is
- patient (you'll need a lot of this)
- hard-working (they need good servants to clean up after themselves)
- a great cook (a varied diet is best)
- moderately wealthy (hey, they need toys and stuffs, vet care, cages, foods etc)
- always there (whatever plans you had, cancel them, Greybie wants you, Greybie needs you)

They are a HUGE commitment if you treat them as they should be treated.   Lots of people lock them up and throw away the key because they had absolutely no idea what they are getting into.  I see tons of rescue stories where I'd like to find the culprits and beat them.   When I was younger I wanted a monkey.  I thank God that I was too poor to ever go through on that stupid impulse.   I see videos of pet monkeys occasionally and can't fathom what it requires to care for one of those.   Greys aren't anywhere near that commitment but they are a time-sink.   

 

This says it all so beautifully....

Yeah, beautiful quote there. Before I go one, I don’t mean to brag in any way;

- Patience - Yeah, I practically raised my rowdy younger brother, so, patience is not a problem

- Hard working - I am VERY hard working and stubborn. I don’t give up, even when I know I’m wrong. I’m prepared to vacuum multiple times a day, cuz these are real dusty birds, aren’t they?

- Cooking - Not a problem

- Money - Again, not to brag, but money’s not a problem. Thankfully, I’m never tight on money 

- Always there. Okay, so, I suffer from SAD, Social Anxiety Disorder, so I try to avoid meeting with people when I can, also I’m a real introvert. 

Huge commitment, yeah. I want an African Grey. Never would I ever lock up a poor bird like in those horrible rescue stories (not saying what you said was offence in any way) 

[neoow]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:32 PM, A.K said:

Thanks Neoow! I have been reading through the archives a lot. How much time do you recommend with a CAG? I work (away from home) from 8 to 3, but I’m willing to wake up as early as it takes (5 am) and I can spend time with him/her from 3 - 8 pm. I know that they need a LOT of mental stimulation, so when I say ‘spend time,’ I mean ‘out of cage time,’  playing with toys, maybe going outside (in the cage, with me beside him/her) Basically playing. Is that okay? 

They seem to like a routine and will fall in line with yours. They do benefit from getting a lot of sleep overnight in a dark/quiet space so you may have to consider this if you're getting a bird up early.

With Alfie I work 8-9 hours a day and whilst most of that is working from home these days previously I had to be on site all day, 5 days a week. So Alfie would come out of his cage to play in the evenings for 2-3 hours and longer at the weekends where possible. When I'm working from home I have a second cage upstairs in my office so he can come and join me and we keep each other company. On quieter days I'll let him out in the office so he can play on his tree and around the room. When I let him out of his bigger cage downstairs he has the whole downstairs of the house to play in. I also have two cats so he doesn't get the full run of the house, I have to keep them separated when Alfie is out and about. When I'm on site for work and Alfie is left in his cage he has plenty of toys to play with and foraging opportunities and I leave the radio on for him.

[A.K]

Okay… Yeah, I treasure my sleep, so looks like I’ll only spend like with him/her after work… I only said ‘wake up early,’ because I thought I wasn’t spending enough time after work. Would you recommend getting a female or male (I’m a female, if that helps)? Also, what age? I know they can start looking for mates during their 2s or 3s, but a baby would be easier to tame. 

[neoow]

I have no idea if there's much difference between males/females temperament wise. I call Alfie a male but actually have no idea if he's male or female. I was told he was a male but I've never had him DNA tested to confirm either way. Some people suggest males will bond better with female humans and females will bond better with male humans but I don't know how true that is. Alfie previously bonded to my male lodger and he also goes absolutely gooey for my mum. I've only ever had Alfie, so I have no other birds to compare him to on that point I'm afraid!

I got Alfie as a baby (approx 11 weeks old) and finished off his weaning process. If I was going to get a second bird, I'd check rescues first I think. There are lots of birds in need of homes. Several members here have rescued birds and have amazing relationships with them. 

[A.K]

Okay. Well, is it true that male AG will treat females as their mate, and be aggressive to other humans of the same gender? Rescues are a good idea, but I’ve never bought from them. I’ve only bought from private breeders, and my experience was great. I’ve encountered several scam sites though, but Jean Patterson seems like the best option for me. I don’t think I have the time, or experience to wean a baby bird, so I’m planning to getting an already weaned CAG.   

[SRSeedBurners]

With a weaned baby you have no idea what you are getting as they are not developed yet may or may not be important to you.   A rehomed older bird is already set in their ways and you can actually see if the bird even likes you, if so it will probably stay that way.   Babies can switch, some do, some don't.  My girl has always been my baby once she got over her stand-offish ways a few months down the road.  Huey our male is a rehome and he doesn't much care for me, even on day one, and will attack me on occasion.  I believe he sees me as competition for the love of his life, my wife and I'm fairly certain he was abused by a male early in his life as he will flinch when I make certain moves - sad.   Huey has pretty much stolen my wife with all his affections towards her.

 

Also, we have seven birds currently and have had 2-3 others that have passed on.   In every case, the males are attracted to my wife and and vice-versa with our female birds.  Our female hawkshead will go after my wife if given any little chance or will go around and around in her cage making threats non-stop.   Goofy girl.   This is a non-scientific, N=1 sample here but it's very peculiar that they have lined up like this.

[A.K]

That’s true, and my AG will be with me for a long time (hopefully) Is it true that the majority of birds are rehomed because of plucking issues, PBFD, cancer, or other diseases? Would the majority also be, like your Huey, abused? Is it true that in some cases, a AG will see you, and just love you, or hate you? I’ve heard of things like that happening… Thanks for the answers, this is such a lovely, caring community. I will definitely come back, most likely with more questions… 😂

[SRSeedBurners]

53 minutes ago, A.K said:

That’s true, and my AG will be with me for a long time (hopefully) Is it true that the majority of birds are rehomed because of plucking issues, PBFD, cancer, or other diseases? Would the majority also be, like your Huey, abused? Is it true that in some cases, a AG will see you, and just love you, or hate you? I’ve heard of things like that happening… Thanks for the answers, this is such a lovely, caring community. I will definitely come back, most likely with more questions… 😂

The majority of birds get rehomed due to people not realizing what they were getting into and tiring of their 'nuisance pet' that requires a lot of work to take care of.   My opinion only, but I think you have to be wired right to think of these birds as more than pets.  Around our house my human girls (wife and daughter) were in for a little shock when I got GreycieMae and they saw how I interacted with her.  I treat her like she's my feathered daughter - she gets spoiled completely rotten.   Created a little jealousy with my wife but she finally wrapped her head around it and now has bonded with our Grey Huey in the same way.  

Birds definitely do have their preferences about who they like and don't like, part of their higher intelligence baggage, just like us.   A lot of people recommend letting a bird pick you, I don't think that's really possible with a baby bird.  An adult for sure.

[LNCAG]

My grey is on his third home -- I've had him 25 years this year (adopted mine in 1997).  No regrets.  Mine was considered un-adoptable -- an aggressive biter I was warned.  But he became a real sweetheart for me -- with the right care, diet, attention, and a lot of love.   Mine had been returned to his breeder... twice.  First couple I think divorced and second home found him to be a real handful (biting, etc.).  The breeder only let me adopt him on trial, she seriously doubted I'd have any luck with him as he was returned to her quite aggressive.  

I often forget about his past -- he's been such a sweetie for me.  I suppose we gave each other a chance!  While mine has learned a lot of words and sentences here, he did arrive already knowing many words and phrases -- so by getting an adult I already knew I'd have a good talker (and whistler!).

There are certainly no guarantees with a re-homed parrot or a baby parrot. But I admit, I definitely encourage giving parrots a second chance - they so deserve it!

[Greytness]

One of my 3 greys, Sydney, was extremely neglected, living in a cage inside an outside shack for 8 years. Rats had chewed holes through the screen and would enter the shack every night to eat the seed. He was rescued on a day when the outside temperatures hit 116 degrees. All he had was a tiny fan on the top of his cage, and his water bowl was completely dry. It's a miracle he even survived! (see pics below)
When we got him, he would puff himself up like a porcupine whenever we'd approach his cage. With a heap of tenderness and patience and doing things in 'Grey time', I was able to get him to step up on the 6th week with us. To this day he loathes men, much the same way Huey seems to. He's my little bubba bird. To this day he has never bit me. (Now I'm knocking on wood!)

Even severely abused or neglected birds can become incredibly loving and bonded birds. But they ALWAYS choose who they prefer to bond with regardless of your efforts and desires.

[A.K]

18 hours ago, SRSeedBurners said:

The majority of birds get rehomed due to people not realizing what they were getting into and tiring of their 'nuisance pet' that requires a lot of work to take care of.   My opinion only, but I think you have to be wired right to think of these birds as more than pets.  Around our house my human girls (wife and daughter) were in for a little shock when I got GreycieMae and they saw how I interacted with her.  I treat her like she's my feathered daughter - she gets spoiled completely rotten.   Created a little jealousy with my wife but she finally wrapped her head around it and now has bonded with our Grey Huey in the same way.  

Birds definitely do have their preferences about who they like and don't like, part of their higher intelligence baggage, just like us.   A lot of people recommend letting a bird pick you, I don't think that's really possible with a baby bird.  An adult for sure.

Ah, okay. What age adult then? 2 - 3? I know they live for minimum 30 years…

[A.K]

11 hours ago, Greytness said:

One of my 3 greys, Sydney, was extremely neglected, living in a cage inside an outside shack for 8 years. Rats had chewed holes through the screen and would enter the shack every night to eat the seed. He was rescued on a day when the outside temperatures hit 116 degrees. All he had was a tiny fan on the top of his cage, and his water bowl was completely dry. It's a miracle he even survived! (see pics below)
When we got him, he would puff himself up like a porcupine whenever we'd approach his cage. With a heap of tenderness and patience and doing things in 'Grey time', I was able to get him to step up on the 6th week with us. To this day he loathes men, much the same way Huey seems to. He's my little bubba bird. To this day he has never bit me. (Now I'm knocking on wood!)

Even severely abused or neglected birds can become incredibly loving and bonded birds. But they ALWAYS choose who they prefer to bond with regardless of your efforts and desires.

Aw, it’s horrible how people buy birds and then abuse and neglect them. Glad to hear Sydney’s recovered, and is happy. People like his owner don’t deserve AGs. Good to hear that severely abused birds can become loving companions. 

[LNCAG]

2 hours ago, A.K said:

Ah, okay. What age adult then? 2 - 3? I know they live for minimum 30 years…

I would guess my Snickers was 12 - 15 years old when I got him. 

[A.K]

Isn’t that kind of old? I mean, 15 is half their life… Do most people get them at that age?

[neoow]

I've seen birds of all ages up for adoption, younger birds as well as older birds. People rehome for many reasons - some people don't do their research and realise how much time birds need or how messy and noisy they can be. Some people start a family and can't cope with managing the pets as well as the new baby. Some people have a change of circumstances- they might have to move where they can't have pets, they lose their job and can't afford it etc etc. Maybe their jobs change and they are working so many hours they can't provide what the bird needs any more. Some people sadly pass away and their friends and relatives don't know the first thing about bird care and aren't interested to learn. Some people get ill and can no longer look after the birds.
Personally, I would prefer someone rehomed an animal if they weren't able to provide the care it needed instead of holding on to it and making it's life a misery- like in Sydney's example above.

I've been in the situation where I had to seriously think about rehoming Alfie. The idea crushed me but I wasn't giving him what he needed at the time. My work/life balance was non-existent (all work), I was trying to study in the free time I did have, I had some personal issues going on, I shared a house with people who had no interest in Alfie (and one was terrified of him) so it was difficult to manage his out of cage time. I decided to make a determined effort to make the changes needed to make it work for Alfie. And if I couldn't do it, then I would have rehomed him in the hopes that someone else could. It took me a while to turn it around but we're in a really good place now and I wouldn't be without him. I'm fortunate enough that I was able to make the changes needed at the time. Otherwise Alfie would have been yet another bird in a rescue centre and there was no guarantee that he would have found his forever home.

Apologies for the essay and for derailing the conversation somewhat. 😕

[LNCAG]

4 hours ago, A.K said:

Isn’t that kind of old? I mean, 15 is half their life… Do most people get them at that age?

I think they live 60 years on average in captivity.

But yeah, I often wonder if I'll have him another 20 years or lose him soon.  He's healthy, active -- seems quite happy.  I do know, given his past, that I hope to outlive my guy.  I have it set up if I go first, he will go to our neighborhood parrot sanctuary -- it's an amazing place where parrots can fly semi-free and he'd be with other greys.  But I really hope to outlive him, because I believe he is happiest here with me.  I'd really hate for him to have to adjust, again, to yet another placement.  3 homes is enough!   

[edited to change 'he's' to 'he'd' -- yeah, I'm like that -- lol]

Edited February 6, 2022 by LNCAG

[A.K]

Hi,

So, thanks a lot for answering my questions. I’ve another question, though. My friend, let’s call her Jennifer, because I’m not sure she’d want her name here. So, Jennifer’s daughter, let’s call Stacey. Stacey is 13 years old, she’s a brilliant girl, unlike any teenager. She’s neat and tidy, has a lot of money saved up, get’s top grades in every class, and wants an African Grey. I’m not sure what to tell her. She’s done TONS of research, I mean, she can tell you the dimensions of the perfect cage, the width between the cage bars, percentages of it’s diet, wing clipping, several brands of pellets, how to prepare chop, the best avian vets in her area, and a lot more. She seems like someone who can take care of a bird, but they are high maintenance. I told her this, and this is kinda what happened:

Me: You know, you have to vacuum a lot, I mean, they are very dusty birds

Stacey: Yes! I know, I can vacuum 3 times a day!

Me: What about school?

Stacey: I’ll play with him/her after school. While I’m at school, I’ll give him/her plenty of toys in his/her’s cage. I mean, that’s what all owners who work do

Me: What about money? Avian Vets are expensive, and the cage, and all the toys, and the food, not to mention the $6000 you have to spend on the bird itself!

Stacey: Eh. Mom said she’d pay for the bird, cage, vets, play stand and food. I’ve $550 saved up for toys. 

Me: Okay

See, she’s thought of everything! Help me please! I really don’t want to crush this girl’s dream. Do you think she can actually take care of one of these birds? 

 

Edit: I’d just like to say, I am not Stacey - I get how people can make that connection.

Edited February 7, 2022 by A.K