Warning: Controversal Thread: WILL BE WATCHED CLOSELY by ADMIN

[Talon]

This is going to be a very rough, controversial topic. It could turn badly very quickly. So I ask that all members use respect for the topic, and various feelings and opinions that will emerge from this subject.

 

For those of you that are aware, I have 3 parrots, 2 greys and a closely very bonded Amazon. Their ages are 7, 13 & 13. My kids are grown and all but 1 are out, on their own starting their lives. My birds are very close to me and I am the sole caregiver of their flock. I am at a point in my life where I need to plan for the day that I will no longer be on the earth. I really don't feel that my kids are an option for my parrots as they start their lives, my daughter possibly for my greys, who can predict what their lives will be like, I hate to saddle her with them and their needs.

 

I know of a few people who are in the same place I am and after much thought and soul searching, they have come to a decision. For me, the thought of my birds being given to another home, or who knows where, perhaps being locked in a cage, perhaps being abused, not understanding what happened to the freedom they had with me,and losing their home. Having to adjust to a whole new situation. The chance of them all getting a wonderful loving home is so slim.

I feel they don't deserve the chaos that will come of my demise. As it is now, I can't go away for 2 days as I have no one to care for them, or no one who can handle them. They know me and only me.

 

So back to this decision my friends have made and have it all set up in their wills......In the event of their deaths, there are instructions in their will, that their birds will be euthanized. As horrible as that sounds, after it settles in, it almost would be a comfort to know they aren't left behind with out the proper care if it's not available. I don't want my birds passed around, separated, and having to spend several years trying to adjust and adapt to a new life, a new routine, new homes, new faces, leaving their comforting routine, foods, treats, their whole life will be disrupted, and gone.

 

so I am just throwing this out there.....I have not made a decision. It is just something I feel strongly about considering as an option among many.

 

PLEASE keep it kind and respectful. I WILL lock this thread if flame wars begin. I'd rather not, a discussion, or opinions are fine, don't INSULT a others thoughts and feelings.

 

 

THANK YOU in advance for your kindness towards others.

[Talon]

One thing I always remember, my birds NEVER asked to be pets, never asked for this life in captivity that they have been dealt....they don't ask to live 40-80 years being passed around in our world, not the one they were meant for....they were meant to be free, but they were bred and dealt this hand. I want to make the time they have the best possible, with no suffering in any way shape or form. They don't deserve it

[Greywings]

I cannot disagree more, not trying to be difficult but reading this is breaking my heart. We are a loosely related family on here and I believe having a rehomed flock that I am not the only good safe place for these special birds. There are many organizations who go out of their way to place birds in the best circumstances possible and then follow up with site visits. Or there are some marvelous Sanctuaries like Oasis, Project Perry and Naples Bird Gardens that take amazing life time care in huge planted aviaries where our feathered friends can live out their lives with flock bonds. I personally could not condemn any of our non humans to death just because I could be facing death, having had cancer and chemo it is possible. Not attacking you it just sounds like you think you are the only capable person around, birds adapt very well if given a chance. Perhaps some of our members could formulate a way to pass our much loved birds to another Grey family member? From reading so many stories here we get a nice insight into the relationships formed with our birds, cats, dogs,families and each other.

[Talon]

Thank you for your insight. I am just sharing something I was told about many months ago. The thought of my healthy birds being put down, I cant even fathom.

 

I didn't mean to imply I am the only who can care for them, it's just I'm all there is is right now..

 

this is why I posted this, I want to hear others thoughts on the subject as hard as it us.....thanks again, I totally respect what you said and it gives me hope.

[Timbersmom]

I have to say that I was shocked to read that someone was considering having a healthy bird euthanized. I can't imagine any circumstance except a painful, terminal illness where I would consider this option for any living, sentient being. I've given some thought to where Timber would go when my husband and I "pass." All of my boys have expressed an interest in taking Timber, and I would trust any of them to do their very best for him. Greywings also pointed out some excellent options.

 

Since I am a rehomer, I know that adjustments are slow and often not easy. I'd like to think that many like myself and others on the forum do their very best to give their birds a loving, healthy home. I'd also like to think there are more of us in the world than the kind who see birds as a novelty. While it's a slow process, birds, like humans, can learn to love again and form a bond with their new caretaker. I am very pro-life when it comes to animals and people. I'd hate to think that the chance of a happy life would be taken away because of the fear of a bad life.

 

Just my thoughts..

[Talon]

Timbersmom,

 

EXCELLANT thoughts and great points you made. I feel better already...it was a heart wrenching thread to start, but I really wanted others thoughts as I have some very disturbing feelings in thinking about doing something so difficult.. As I said, it was only 1 option that someone suggested. It is something that has been on my mind for almost a year....and I felt bringing it up here in this family would give a clearer insight.

[SRSeedBurners]

I've considered the same. I finally came to the conclusion that my daughter will be entrusted in their care if she proves worthy over the next few years. They will come with a large trust fund. If she doesn't pan out, then like others have said here, some sanctuary would probably be happy to have them. I know a lawyer in Maine that worked a water-tight trust fund for the owner's birds. Those adult kids tried everything they could to break it but never succeeded. Hoping to set up something similar.

[Elvenking]

I hear the argument compassionately, trust me. It has long been a concern of mine when I go, and when my best boy Isaac goes. I hope he is first...it is horrible to say, but somehow, I hope I outlive him. Otherwise, I'll try to have him get close to more than just me, or find a friend for him when the time seems close for me. Definitely leaving instructions for my baby in case I should go unexpectedly. All that said, I would say another option of some sort is warranted. In the wild, they bond and lose one another as well. I just don't think taking it into ones own hands or others is good. I have had to come to accept a lot of very, very tough things when it comes to Isaac. I never want to leave him alone. I love him to the very end and I will never renounce my commitment to him. That is one tough commitment let me tell you. LOL. I will find some way for him to carry on if he should outlast me.

 

The truth of the matter is, the commitment is immense. Bigger than anyone could have possibly imagined. Consider this. We have taken a wild parrot that lives normally in Africa, moved it to another part of the world, and we are recreating nature for them, while in my case trying satisfy a personal desire for a relationship with a parrot, of course we truly love birds. No matter what we do....it doesn't matter how much love...it is not the wild...and it is not natural. I sometimes think of how Isaac could be flying with a flock..it's hard when you love them so. We own that. I see that you own the outcome, and that you are serious in your commitment as well. I just suggest find the other way. Cheers.

[Giannine]

I understand your reasoning behind this. It's not because you believe you are the only capable person to handle them, but your fear of the unknown...the what if they are not taken care of or abused, or rehomed repeatedly. I get it. I think it would be very wise to look into a sanctuary they might be able to go to...something along those lines. That would be more inline with their natural habitat

Edited April 8, 2016 by Talon
Undo quote for space

[Talon]

I understand your reasoning behind this. It's not because you believe you are the only capable person to handle them, but your fear of the unknown...the what if they are not taken care of or abused, or rehomed repeatedly. I get it. I think it would be very wise to look into a sanctuary they might be able to go to...something along those lines. That would be more inline with their natural habitat

 

 

EXACTLY!!

 

Great input into this subject from everyone. There are anyother options. And since I am 55 and my grandmother is 103 in great health, and my great and great great grandmothers all lived to be 100.....I expect my birds will be with me well into their 40's.....so it may not be as big of an issue as I think...

[SRSeedBurners]

I'd wager most here worry more about their birds then their own kids. I do. 100%. My birdies can't take care of themselves in our world. Makes me sad thinking about it.

[neoow]

I think about this from time to time and I'm getting to the point where I should probably do something about it. Whilst I've only just turned 30- what would happen if I got hit by a bus tomorrow? Who would have Alfie? I am the only one in my family who can handle Alfie. They would not be happy to take him in if something were to happen to me. My housemate would not be willing to take him on full time (he would not handle him either). The best I could hope for is that my family would take him in temporarily in order to rehome him. They wouldn't be able to have him out of the cage or anything and would not want to keep him- so they would only keep him until they found him a home.

Similarly, it's possible, as Alfie is only 12 (13 next week!) that he could outlive me. So I will need to make arrangements for what happens to Alfie when I pass regardless.

 

However, personally, I could not begin to consider a scenario where I would have Alfie euthanised- or any healthy animal for that matter. I seriously need to consider what my options are and speak to my family about it to see what would happen and what they would be willing to do... but whatever happens, I could not consider that as an option for any of my pets.

I don't know of any/many bird sanctuaries here in the UK but it sounds like there are a few good projects going on stateside. Would it be possible to contact some of the sanctuaries and come to some form of agreement with one of them - that if/when the time comes, they would take in your birds and look after them or find them a good home? Maybe it would be a case of you having to make some form of donation for it to happen... but at least you could then assess and choose your preferred place? ... I've no idea if this is possible at all, I was thinking it may be an area worth investigating though.

 

As a really radical thought... could this be something that could be set up through the forums? Are there members who would be willing to take in birds for rehome if another member trusted them to? We are all like-minded people on here- could there be some form of 'buddy system' formed between members...? If something happened- they would be willing to be a temporary or permanent carer for the birds? The logistics of this would be something that would need to be worked out privately between the members of course.. but it's another option worth a thought maybe?

[katana600]

It is very courageous to consider this topic. The only thing I am sure about is the only thing constant is change. Something I was absolutely certain about a year ago has changed and we never really know what is around the next corner. I have a deep and abiding sense that around the corner, hidden from my view is something wonderful that today I could not even contemplate because it is outside my vast array of life experience. For the most part our forum is made up of a family with like-minded views of living with a companion parrot or flock. There are too many to mention but as a whole those of us who took in a rescue parrot have a view that it is a frustrating, uncertain an amazingly rewarding experience. I can only imagine how many good people are in a happy life right now giving no thought that parrots in other homes even exist. Then one day they notice a parrot, maybe they think about it for a while. Those people have a spark of kinship with a feathered soul. One day their life may change and somebody who knows somebody will say "I know of this parrot looking for a home and you might be interested." Not everything can be planned. Sometimes we are directed to opportunity that changes our lives and our minds.

 

For me, I could not imagine making a decision to leave word to euthanize my beloved companions. Could we even make certain there would be someone who could agree to carry out our plan? It opens my mind to questions I would otherwise never have thought to ask. I do spend time going round and round in my head trying to find a plan to do right by these wonderful parrots who have been taken from nature for our entertainment and companionship. If we had a time machine to go back and change the world so the first person never took home a baby parrot would that really be the best thing? Those of us who know this love of discovery that our parrot is a sentient being with innate cleverness and the ability to share our language. We all have a different world view of the environment and all creatures great and small.

 

For me personally, I have learned more from Miss Gilbert in five years than all the other life relationships in my years. Being on this forum has changed many human relationship ideas I may have been unaware of otherwise. We have something in common yet all of us are beautifully unique... Just like our parrots. For my own peace of mind, I have someone who loves me and tolerates my parrot. I know I can trust him to make decisions he knows would please me. He doesn't have to promise to live with my parrot.... Only to promise to find her a home that he can look in on her, provide for her financial needs if necessary and to live with his conscience that he is doing what he believes I would do in those decisions.

 

Thanks for being the forum family where we can be safe to share these thoughts with others who care about their extended flock as part of our own. We don't need to reinvent the wheel but together we are much greater than the sum of our parts. That synergy with the discussion of this topic may change our world for the better.

[Luvparrots]

Great and important subject..... I have thought about this problem as I am now getting into my 70's. My Father died at 93 but my Mother at 39.... My youngest, Sheila (Sheshe) wants to care for Sterling Gris. Sterling Gris talks to her and has a couple of sentences Sheshe taught him "Sheshe loves diamonds." and "Sheshe wants a cocktail." As for Ana Grey my oldest, Donna, has found a couple of medical friends who would love to have a parrot. My neighbors have first choice if they would like a grey. My Greys love the 25 year old son, Jordan, who is 6' 4" and Sterling Gris loves to ride on his high up shoulder. I have also asked my daughter to come on GreyForums to see if anyone would like Ana Grey or Sterling Gris as you all know them so well. Tough topics but oh so necessary.

 

Euthanasia..... don't be ridiculous!!!! My parrots deserve to enjoy their lives and if for some reason my family cannot care for my babies then my Donna has others in mind. This is something that is very important to me.... these are my feathered family.

Edited January 16, 2017 by luvparrots

[Talon]

My heart is just overflowig with the love and compassion from the posts on this thread. It is a difficult subject, no doubt. But it shows the deep bond and love we have for our birds that no one else could ever understand. I LOVE the idea of having a family here to turn to in the event one of our family flock member needs a home. We here know each other's parrots better than anyone, we know each other's struggles, frustrations, and all the happy times, treats, tricks and just the love that is shared with our precious babies.

[Peachaburra]

I'm only a teenager, but I do worry about what would happen to my babies is something were to happen to me. I plan on filling a binder with information about all of them. Their likes, dislikes, habits, favorite foods, favorite toys, things they are afraid of, things they can't have, ect, ect.... I would also love to find a God Parent for each one, and let them get to know their God Parent in advance. I know where my cockatoo would go if something were to happen, but not the others.

 

I can't imagine euthanizing an animal for any reason other then if they were physically suffering. Especially my babies. They deserve to live long, happy lives. I trust that there are others out there who can take just as good of a job caring for them as I can.

[smokeydamage]

Just like a family who doesn't have their own children reach out to adopt children who have no parents or had abusive parents, there are SCORES of loving bird owners, many like the ones on this board, who would ADORE and love your babies, much like yourself, even if they will never BE you... you just need to look in right places.... don't punish the babies you love so very much by prematurely ending their life because you are no longer there to be the sole person to care for them...

[VStar Mama]

Sensitive Subject.......

 

I understand where you are coming from. I myself have wrestled with this question in an ongoing way with my dogs. In my case, a divorce and subsequent lifestyle change (= much less $ to go around) brought me to this point. When weighing the options and considering all the factors, my dogs have many cons working against them to be rehomed. Lab mix - senior, large, black, dog aggressive, one-person (me) dog, food aggressive, congenital birth defect in rear leg - the effect of which are now manifesting in progressively worsening arthritis in hips. Boxer - senior, not fixed, genetic diseases including overgrowing gums, BCM, high prey drive for small furry critters, and terminal cancer. Although the lab is aggressive to other dogs, she is a bit lost without her pack sister and without me would be best off remaining with the Boxer. I know that if I was not able to care for them or find myself in a situation where I can't take them with me (upcoming relocation) taking them to a shelter is a death sentence anyway. I have decided that at this point, if they can't stay with me, then I will make the final vet call. I would rather my dogs pass on in my arms than at the mercy of some total stranger/institution; no matter how nice and kind they actually are.

 

I know that this decision is for me more than it is for them. I won't have to live with the uncertainty of wondering what happened to them for the rest of MY life. I will know that they passed on peacefully and with their family, loved and cared for and belonging until the end. I've had these dogs since they were puppies; the lab is 10 and the Boxer 9.

 

This brings me to one of the biggest differences. When you have passed on, you likely won't know what happens afterwards. None of us really knows what happens after death. Any decision you make is for your emotional well-being while still alive. So whatever the final decision, make it to ensure your peace of mind now and for the future. Many many things can change between now and then and none of us know what our futures hold. The Sanctuary that we leave our birds to may lose funding, or lease, or shut its doors, or all the birds could be infected with some weird virus mutation, or a fire causes a mass escape. Greedy relatives may find a loophole or sympathetic judge and the bird loses its trust fund.....Point is - the future is unknowable and anything or nothing can happen.

Maybe your children grow into the idea of taking on your birds. They may come to value to sense of continuity that is represented by a feathered legacy. A little bit of ourselves goes to our fids (finned, furred, and feathered and probably scaled) and parrots imbued with the quirks of Mother may turn out to be the greatest ad perpetuam rei memoriam.

 

Healthy birds get euthanized all the time. Although it is a horrifying prospect to entertain, I think that you show incredible courage in allowing yourself to explore ALL options, no matter how distasteful, in order to make the most informed decision possible.

 

Good Luck!

[AbductedByGreys]

just wanted to make a quick comment in here after reading the original post. With a website dedicated to greys, surely there is someone here with a proven background that can fullfill the homing needs for those birds in your passing. Birds deserve to live their lives to the fullest just as you, if you feel they deserve a good home, then spend your remaining time finding it for them, having them put down is just the easy way out of doing that. As a last resort, on youtube there's a few bird trainers on there with lots of birds, they do tricks, free flights, ect. While it wouldn't be the perfect 'home' per say, it would be a far cry from ending up locked away all day somewhere else.

 

anyways i came here kind of because i have the exact opposite problem which i will be making a thread about here shortly, i have a baby CAG and he lives outside his cage lol.....a bit more to it than that but thats the short story.

 

goodluck

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I havent been on this site in a few weeks, as my dog has been ill, and my focus has been on him. In the event of his death, my kids know, Sophie needs a social enviroment. Ryan has decided to take her. We have discussed this past few weeks if I can't save Ollie. I am doing all I can to get him healthy again. I would NEVER euthanize Sophie. She has soooo much to offer! I like the idea of members adopting birds from members that can no longer care, or death Nancy

[Inara]

Very tough and poignant but important subject. Thank you for bringing it up. Both my Joe and I consider this a lot. HRH Inara, like all of our feathered forum family members is unique and so deeply bonded with us, that my heart shatters at even entertaining the thought that she might ever have to be rehomed. She knows and understands, "I will be back." or "Joe will be back." Joe often travels for work, and so when he is leaving just to go to work for the day, or I am leaving for my volunteer job, we will say --"Going to work. Love you, I will be back later." When Joe will be gone for several days, he will say, "I am going bye-bye for a long time. I will be back."

 

Two weeks ago we had to put our beautiful 10 year old dog to sleep due to cancer. We had a vet come to our home so that she could die peacefully and without fear in our arms. We of course put Inara in another room before anyone arrived, and until Joe and I could pull ourselves together. She has flock called a few times for Dezi perhaps thinking that she is outside and just not coming in like a "good girl." However, we feel certain that Inara knew that Dezi was very ill, as instead of her usual telling Dezi to "go lie down," she during Dezi's last few days would look at her and softly say, "Good girl. You are a good girl." :( The next week, Joe had to go on a business trip. After he was gone for two days, that night Inara called, "Big bird (she calls him that)..... Joe -oh." Then said, "Joe back! Joe will be back!" In a distressed voice. So I assured her that Joe would be back. Perhaps she was worried that he too, was not coming back.

 

I relate the above, because my mind goes to a time when one or both of us won't "be back." I tear up at that thought of her not knowing and wondering where we went, and why we are not back. It crushes me. I have had friends who have left their long time companion birds to a son or daughter (very responsible ones) who later gave the birds up because hanging out with them at their mom's house was one thing, living with them with full responsibility for 24/7 eventually was beyond them.

 

There is no perfect solution. No matter what, there will be confusion and stress and even sadness on the part of our companion left behind. I agree that one of the reasons I love this forum so much is that there are many, many caring responsible Grey lovers who may at some point consider opening room in their flock for one of our beloveds who is in danger of being left behind. I know that I personally would consider opening our heart and home in the future if someone in need was in our area.

 

Love to you all.

[Talon]

Inara,

 

You our completely wrote my feelings. Thank you for understanding.....

[Inara]

It really does bring home that *now* is the time to make plans. Our own thoughts are that we would love to find birdie "god parronts" who can spend the next several years getting to know HRH and learning how to physically handle her, interact with her, etc. and who have birds of their own so know what it takes and where she can visit for overnights, etc. That way they would be familiar to her and she to them.

 

On the flipside --- when Inara came to live with us, we were complete strangers and she never looked back. Not once. But I think some of that was developmental stage timing. She was only 2 years old when we got her, and so would have been naturally wanting to start separating from her parents and joining the rest of the flock. Another bird may have mourned and had a long adjustment period.

 

Both of my waybackinthepast birds, who were horribly abused, neglected and wild caught, learned to love and trust and we had long and wonderful relationships. So there really is no predicting how another creature will respond.

 

Again, there is no perfect solution. For us, ending the life of a healthy, happy creature who could learn to adjust to a new loving home is not an option we would consider, but I can understand how the thoughts can come up as to what is most humane, especially given all we know about our beloved companions. I think doing a lot of footwork now, loooong before a solution is needed is of the utmost importance. Life is unpredictable.

 

I used to be pretty judgmental and snarky about the number of birds put up on Craigslist and other sales due to "lack of time" "new baby" etc., and then something that Dr. Flock (aka Dave007) said made me stop and think about things on a deeper level. Regardless of the reason given for surrendering a bird or other non human companion, it is better that they go to a new home than be stuck in one where they are not wanted (not that that is the case in this topic). I guess it brings to mind, that in the event of severe illness or impending death on my part, I would in the long run rather risk HRH going to a new and carefully chosen home and being confused and/or sad for a period of time, than have her life ended prematurely because of my own sense of sadness at what I think she "might" feel/experience.

 

Such a complex topic, again with no easy answer!!!

Edited May 12, 2016 by Inara
just clarifying

[Talon]

Thank you Inara, very thought provoking and helpful.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Ryan was going to take Sophie, if Ollie passed on ( my dog). After Ollies surgery with teeth extraction, and his difficult recovery, Ollie is doing fine! The plan was for Ryan to take Sophie, as she is so social and would be depressed with my long work hours, if Ollie didn't make it. I think Ryan missed the part " if Ollie didn't make it!" He called today telling me he was coming next week to get Sophie... I told him Ollie is doing well( I have texted everyday his progress!) Sophie doesnt need to go anywhere! I feel bad...he thought Sophie was ready to go live with him. I am happy though, that Sophie has a home when, and if needed. Nancy