Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Echo is 15 years old, I've had her since she was 5 months old. We have a great bond, have never had any issues, behaviour problems, etc. (OH, she's not perfect LOL, I've just been very lucky in that she's overall a great parrot). Once of my closest friends is also my dog walker. She has been fascinated by parrots for years, and is quite enamoured of Echo. Echo ... not so much. She'll MAYBE step up on her perch for her, but not always. Most times she just stares at her. I have told her 1000000 times NOT to go into her bird room, and have also told her that Echo DESPISES men, and I mean HATES them. She is a great person, but yesterday she made a very bad decision, and I'm absolutely livid, and have been since ... and Echo is suffering from it. Her husband came with her to pick up the dog (I know her husband he's also a great guy) for their walk and she decided to "show off" (Ok, maybe I'm being rude here, but I'm still very upset). She went into Echo's room, and her husband started taping the "session" with his phone. Echo freaked - she flat out flew after her (she's fully flighted), biting her, beating her wings on her head, screeching at her. She was on the ground on her hands and knees and crawled over to the table and Echo flew off, and as soon as she moved to get up, Echo went after her again. This happened four times before she was able to get out of the room. And to make matters worse (in my mind) she posted this on facebook, and everyone thought it was funny. I had NO idea about any of this while I was at work. I come home and walk into Echo's room and Echo launched herself at me - screeching, biting, flapping wings, the whole shebang. I was STUNNED to say the least. Went outside to walk the dog, checked my phone, saw the messages, watched the video, read the comments, saw red ... but then understood Echo's reaction. I spent over 3 hours last night trying to get into her room. I couldn't. I tried talking through the door, no luck, tossing pistachios, no luck. Nothing. I can't even get in there to change her food and water bowls. This morning, I was able to go in to her room because she was in her cage, and couldn't get out fast enough. (She has a sleep cage only). This meant I could change her food / water and change the newspapers. She screamed at me the whole time. (My poor dad WAS trying to sleep LOL) I have spoken to my parrot sitter, and we have this theory: Echo's space was completely violated by someone she doesn't trust - having a male around made it worse. She's in "defensive / aggressive" mode and a couple of days might help (or not???) We have a plan that if I can't get into the room tonight (which also has my computer and sewing machine in there!) then she would take Echo to her house for a couple of days to help her relax. Echo LOVES LOVES LOVES going to her place. While Echo is gone, I would rearrange the room so that it's "new" and she is coming back to a "safe" place. Does anyone have any thoughts / experiences on these kinds of situations? ANYTHING is welcome, and thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wow, wow WOW!!!! If that happened w/Phenix I would have lost my mind!! Yes to everything you're thinking. Except no to a couple of days recovery time. If you are very lucky, Echo will have come down some by then. But, I think there will be some very real long term repercussions to be dealt w/one day at a time. What are you going to do about the dog walker btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I absolutely believe letting her take Echo to her house is the next worst decision that can be made. I may have read that wrong but I read: you're going to let the dog sitter, who screwed this up in the first place, take the bird? Based on her reaction to thinking it was funny and posting it on FB leads me to believe this person needs to stick to dog walking. Your bird is now traumatized, I wouldn't screw with the situation any further. Let Echo sort herself out in her trusted place and she will come around. Also sounds like Echo may need a bit of socializing but I have no idea if it's too late for that. I have a best friend. If I told him not to do something more than once and he did it anyway traumatizing my baby like that he would find out real fast he's on my shit list. That's if I didn't punch him for it. edit: ok, you have a dog walker and a parrot sitter. I realized after I posted these are two different people. No idea on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I haven't decided. The thing is, she's not just "the dog walker" she's one of my closest friends - just did something really really stupid. You know when you tell people NOT to do something, and they're like yeah yeah yeah, and you KNOW they aren't really taking you seriously? That's exactly what this situation was ... the thing is, she is a FABULOUS dog behaviourist - she can take pretty much ANY aggressive dog and work with it. Her decision yesterday was so out of character from what I've known about her for the last couple of years. That's why I put "showing off" for her husband, because it's the ONLY thing I can think of. Thanks for your other thoughts ... Sterling - NO LMAO - Echo is not going to the dog walker's house LOL Socializing - Echo is fine with women, not with men. I'm not married, don't have a boyfriend, don't want one ... I have two parrot sitters if needed - they are both women, Echo likes them both. I'm not a very social person at all ... I don't have people over at the house for visits - I come home from work, play with Echo, walk the dog / work the dog, quilt / go on the computer - which is in Echo's room ... In the nice weather - Echo comes outside in her cage by the pond, or when I'm working in the garden. I don't socialize, so it will be very hard for her to LOL Edited October 8, 2015 by Echo's Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Socializing - Echo is fine with women' date=' not with me. [/quote'] You meant men, I think?? Problem is, if she comes back into Echo's house, not just her roost/room/personal space, I think Echo's going to have real problems. Especially if you're not home. The very first thing I would think is not let her anywhere in the house w/o you, At least until Echo seems really stable whenever she's around. I hope I'm wrong. But that was a major meltdown & I think it's going to take some time. Honestly, I don't know how long it would take me to be really "over it", either. And I know Phenix would sense that under normal circumstances, let alone if he was on any kind of heightened alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, I meant men, thank you ... I fixed it! Echo's room is in the basement to the right, around the corner. To get to the dog - you go down the stairs and to the left, around the corner. So, she doesn't have to see Echo at all ... or even speak. She can stay out of sight. I can put up a curtain on the inside of Echo's room so it blocks the door, and I can lock the door. I'm pretty sure I don't need to lock the door though, after being attacked like she was, she's now terrified of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I totally agree with everyone has said. I only have one suggestion especially if your friend likes posting on FB because she thinks it's funny. I think you need to lie to her a little bit and tell her that when she breaks the rules, your bird is gonna go after you later on and try to bite your face and cheeks and eyes. I think you should tell her that your bird makes you bleed on a regular basis when this type of thing happens. I'm not sure whether you said that you bring the bird to her house but if you do, that should stop. Many people have bird sitters and a very common thing that people do is to ask the sitter to come over about 3 times a day, feed and water her and sit around her for a bit. The sitter should leave the bird alone. After all, she is only a sitter. You need to make drastic changes in order to maintain safety. A bird shouldn't have to be chased around in order to retrieve it because each time you do that the bird gets more frightened and bites even harder. She'll lose trust in you for a few days. She's gonna be pissed and she's gonna be more pissed at the sitter. If no men should be around then MAKE SURE THAT NO MEN AROUND!!!!!!! and hammer that into your friend's brain!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 When the hawks are outside in the yard, the the fids are skittish. I put my jacket on at the other end of the house & Phenix makes the zipping sound before I can pull on the second sleeve. And he can't see me mind you. So just in case, could you maybe set up an old smartphone or Nanny cam type arrangement to see if Echo's back to normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Dave - I THINK you are getting two people mixed up ... the dog walker (who is also one of my closest friends) is the one who freaked out Echo ... the bird sitter is someone Echo loves to bits and I would have her come and take Echo to her house for a couple of days to "settle" down and hopefully have some fun at her house. The sitter lives 1.5 hours away - one way, so not really feasible to do a couple of visits. They are two completely different people!!!! Also, I don't have a "sitter" that comes into the house for the bird / dog. If I go away, Echo goes to the sitter's house. My friend just comes to pick up the dog and take her for her run. She is a VERY good friend ... we spend a lot of time together ... that's why I'm so ticked off. The only man in the house is my dad, and he knows better! A nanny cam is a great idea ... IF Echo doesn't find it LOL ... then it's destroyed! Edited October 8, 2015 by Echo's Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dave - I THINK you are getting two people mixed up ... the dog walker (who is also one of my closest friends) is the one who freaked out Echo ... the bird sitter is someone Echo loves to bits and I would have her come and take Echo to her house for a couple of days to "settle" down and hopefully have some fun at her house. The sitter lives 1.5 hours away - one way' date=' so not really feasible to do a couple of visits. They are two completely different people!!!! Also, I don't have a "sitter" that comes into the house for the bird / dog. If I go away, Echo goes to the sitter's house. My friend just comes to pick up the dog and take her for her run. She is a VERY good friend ... we spend a lot of time together ... that's why I'm so ticked off. The only man in the house is my dad, and he knows better! A nanny cam is a great idea ... IF Echo doesn't find it LOL ... then it's destroyed![/quote'] OK, my mistake. Sorry about that. I was only looking after your safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 I appreciate that ... what I am hoping you will have some info on is my idea to help Echo ... having her go to the sitter's - that she LOVES to do ... then rearrange her room, and then bring her back to a new "safe" home ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Suggesting Rescue Remedy in her water for a few days it has proven helpful when birds have had a shock like that. Time will heal her mental outlook and yes your friend was wrong all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thanks Grey wings ... can I use the same kind for humans? Or should I use the one for dogs - the one for humans has like 0.0005% alcohol and the one for dogs has none (I have the human one, not the dog one LOL) Also, two good things: 1 - she took the video down, so I'm very happy about that 2 - I'm in the same room as Echo right now ... she's completely ignoring me, but at least she's not screaming, attacking or anything, and I'm acting like she's not even there I have a pistachio sitting on the top of my head in hopes she'll give in to her first love (the nut) ... time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ignoring you is part of your punishment. Sitting with a pistachio on your head is good but you should show some real penance and sit on a pile of pistachio shells - and beg for forgiveness, all while still being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 How terrible! I sure feel for you. It sounds like things are "normalizing" a bit already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 SterlingSL - thank you for the laugh! I'm only afraid she would eat them all! Alas, it didn't work, but the screaming, growling, and launching herself at me has stopped. I've walked in and out of the room a number of times, and she is now accepting of that. I'm so thankful that I've made this much progress in just one day. I have to check my anger at the door - it makes me glad that I've worked as a certified dog trainer, and have learned how to "check emotions" when working with an animal. I just have to hope that she doesn't revert back in a day or two, or start plucking - I would probably lose my sanity if she started plucking! Thanks all for the tips and understanding of my anger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 You've got a tremendous relationship w/your fid & I think should be applauded big time. I know this way outside the norm. But is she usually so forgiving? Today has been very encouraging even if she is that kind of girl, though. So given all that, do you still think she needs time w/the sitter & a whole new room design? Or do you think you might just be able to limp along now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thank you birdhouse. I have not been able to make any more headway with her, other than being in the room. I was able to sew and be on the computer, but as soon as I moved too quickly, she came after me. I didn't leave, I just stopped moving, covered my head and waited it out. She didn't bite me or anything, was just flapping her wings and making noises. In the 15 years I've had Echo there has NEVER been an incident such as this. She has led a very "sheltered" life. She'll eat pistachios if I'm not in the room, but not in front of me (little brat LOL) And, big sigh, she won't talk to me. We used to have such great conversations, so I am crossing my fingers that in time she'll decide she is safe and will start talking again. I can't get her to step up, and she won't go in to her cage, but I was able to clean her room. This morning I was able to go into her room with no issues, and bring her breakfast to her. I usually get a "thank you" but this morning she just glared at me. When I walked by the room to leave I peaked in the door and she was eating away - food all over her beak. So I'm thinking that she is OK, physically, she's just seriously been rattled and will need lots of time. I'm not going to have the parrot sitter come and get her. That was only a last resort if I couldn't actually get into the room. Fingers crossed that nothing else crops up later. Thanks again everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm so sorry you and Echo had this experience. I hope every day brings you a little closer to 'normal'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks Acappella ... it's so very hard to not run up to her and do the games we usually do! BUT, I have loads of patience when it comes to animals (just not people LOL) so as long as she doesn't get "more stressed" I think time will be the best solution. Happy Thanksgiving weekend to any Canadians out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoow Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Wow. Just wow. I'm glad things are improving slowly with Echo. It is difficult to know what they are thinking about situations when they act out. Hopefully with time Echo will come round and your relationship will be just like it used to be. Have you spoken to your friend at all since this happened? Has she apologised? I think I would be having a very serious conversation with her- highlighting how she has broken your trust in her and that it will take a while for you to stop being angry about it. Hopefully she'll think twice before doing anything so stupid and reckless in the future. I have to hold my tongue when my housemate's sister in law comes round. She seems to think she is the queen of cats and will go marching up to our two cats thinking they will love and adore her. My cats are super friendly- but they have to come to you on their terms. I explain this every time but she won't listen and instead goes bowling over trying to pick them up and cuddle them. Both of them hate being picked up (one more so than the other)... especially by strangers or near-strangers. They REALLY hate being cuddled. So it's no surprise when they freak out and she gets an accidental scratch as they fight to get away from her. I really struggle to keep my cool when that happens. So I can only imagine how furious I would be if I was in your situation right now. Anyway, sorry... went on a bit of a tangent there...! Just keep doing what you're doing with Echo. It's difficult to know how long it will take. She might wake up tomorrow and decide that you've had enough punishment or she may drag it out for a while. Do keep us updated with it all. If nothing else, at least you can use this space to vent your feelings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 We just finished a long weekend - Canadian Thanksgiving - and the weather was gorgeous! Progress with Echo has moved along a bit more. Saturday and Sunday she was pretty much the same - I could go in and out of the room, and stay there as long as I didn't move too fast. I've tried talking to her to let her know what I am going to do, but admittedly I forgot a couple of times and she flew at me. She's not attacking any more, more of a dive bomb and then the brat is laughing at me when she lands back on her perch. Yesterday was GORGEOUS. 25 degrees in Ottawa, and I had a TON of work to do in the backyard. Echo LOVES being outside in the yard with me, so I was really hoping we could make some progress. When I went into her room yesterday morning she was in her sleep cage - YEAH - for the FIRST time since Wednesday last week. I closed the door before she had a chance to do anything and brought her upstairs. (She only has a sleep cage, otherwise, she has the whole room to herself). I was able to put food in her bowl through the cage and we shared breakfast together. My dog was VERY interested. She never comes in contact with Echo because she would likely eat her LOL and Echo is so not afraid of dogs because her and my last dog were best buds. Anyway, I brought Echo's cage outside and put it up on the patio table and proceeded to clean out the garage, and then move stuff into the shed. Living in Ottawa, I use my garage in the winter for my car - not for storage! I had brought out the radio and she was whistling along and life was good. I was able to move her to the front yard with no problems (she didn't try and attack me through the cage) and then proceeded to take down my little white picket fence that goes around the whole front yard. I think she was impressed with all the swear words she heard me saying because not only was she whistling, but she was laughing at me. After 5 hours of being outside, I brought her back in to her room, and took advantage to do a really good clean up. I let her out and she flew at me and landed on my head. I admit, I was tense, and I was waiting for her to bite me. BUT she didn't! She flew back up onto her perch and I was able to leave the room with no hassles. I was gone for the rest of the day, and when I came back I went into her room, and she just watched me. I asked her to go to bed (her cue to go to her cage) but she wouldn't. So I stayed in the room for about an hour, and then asked her again. NOPE. So off I went. This morning, she was sleeping in her cage again when I went into the room, but as soon as she saw me coming she hustled out of her cage so fast it was pretty funny. So things are coming around. She's making her usual noises, but won't talk to me ... SIGH ... time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Has she acted like this before the incident with the dog walker or is this new behavior since that incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo's Mom Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 This is new behaviour since the dog walker incident .... On the plus side, things ARE going very well considering how bad she was on Wednesday when I came home from work. The negatives are quite easy to deal with, just heartbreaking that I am even having to deal with them in the first place. This is the first time in 15 years that she's had something like this happen, so I can just imagine what's going on in her head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If this was a rescue, it would all be different ...starting w/the time table. Very glad to see Echo's not so fragile & has come such a very long way in such a short time. It would seem she's basically a pretty stable girl from a good & loving home who will bounce back from this trauma mostly unscathed. Now that the dust has settled some & speaking as someone who is no friend of the dog walker- She is very lucky. This could have been so much worse!! I literally can't imagine any one of my friends who would put either my critters or me thru anything remotely like that, just from a pain perspective. But also because they would respect my judgement too much when it comes to what my critters can tolerate &/or what things might put someone in harm's way. I don't know what I would do if someone pulled a stunt like this. But one thing for sure. This would be a "one & done" from the perspective that I could never fully trust them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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