Echo's Mom

Lots of questions ... Echo's never been "mistreated". I've had two relationships with her, and neither man was interested enough in parrots to want to develop a relationship with her. They were both indifferent to her. The cable guy scared the poop out of her once, but I'm pretty sure she scared him back just as fast. I didn't socialize Echo the way some people do. While I'm very "sociable" at work and when I need to be, I don't like having people in my space. So the reality is, she hasn't met a lot of people. Echo loves music, and it is always on for her. One of the first things I do when I come home is put the dog on the treadmill for an hour, and I clean up / check emails, etc. and the music is cranked. Echo's usually on my shoulder or my head and we are dancing and singing, whistling away. I'm sure the neighbours think we are nuts! We haven't got quite back to the same routine, but at least I can now pick her up, put her in her sleep cage, and get kisses. She won't sit on my shoulder right now, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. I use my iphone to take pics / videos, and I'm not really into creating accounts all over the place for "social media" I have facebook, and that's enough for me LOL

So a final update ... we have success! I wish I knew how to upload a video but I don't have any accounts anywhere, so it won't happen! Last night I actually got to get her to step up onto my hand, and she let me give her scratchies on her head. And then I asked for a kiss, and I got 3 in a row. I was even able to do it again with my filming it!!!!! This morning when I went in to her room, she flew over and landed on my shoulder and said HI MOMMY! Her first words since the incident!!!! So, I'm 99.99% sure all is forgiven and life continues in the world of the grey!

Kins2321 ... This pretty much sums it up! I've very little patience with most people in this world that I have to deal with face-to-face. I don't know if it's me, my age, or I'm just surrounded by thoughtless people LOL BUT ... as I mentioned she is a dear friend, and has bent over backwards to help me with my dog - she even took my dog for two weeks to work with her, and give me a break while I was trying to manage my dog and her then aggressive tendencies. The change she brought out in my dog was amazing. AND, she's one of the very few friends I have that I really truly like to spend time with.

Yes, jungle gym ... and lots of toys to destroy ... Echo's favourite - a roll of toilet paper!

I had a huge discussion (and a bit of yelling on my part) with my friend. I'm pretty sure she gets it, especially since Echo did actually hurt her. Generally speaking, yes, I would have dropped this person in a heartbeat and never spoken to them again. HOWEVER, she is absolutely phenomenal with dogs, and I do mean phenomenal. My dog who was seriously attacked by other dogs, and became extremely reactive and dangerous around other dogs. Within a month she had my dog at my side walking beside other dogs on leash. 6 weeks later, my dog was able to be off leash with other dogs (not at off-leash park, a supervised area). When I as finished yelling at her, she did explain that all she was trying to do was show her husband how "cool" Echo was. She didn't realize how terrified Echo was of men - she did have him waiting outside of her room on the other side of the glass door. She feels absolutely horrible, now that she understands just what her thoughtless actions has caused Echo to go through. I really don't want to lose her as a friend (as I don't have that many LOL) ... I think it has been a huge learning lesson for her ... just because you're awesome with dogs, doesn't mean it transfers to all animals. And it will be a very big lesson for me ... one in patience and forgiveness (two things that I know I lack a lot of when it comes to dealing with people) Yes, Echo is not the "typical" grey ... she's not a rescue / rehome, etc. She's a fabulous parrot who has led a very sheltered and protected life, and has just suffered a trauma. I can just hope and pray that the awesome bond we do share will transcend all of this over time. Thank you everyone for you support and kind words. And in reality, if she was "just" the dog walker, yes, she would have been out of there.

I'll chime in since I've had a variety of animals with Echo! Echo is 15 years old, and has been through 4 adult cats (that have since crossed the bridge), and is now on her 5th adult cat (I adopt adults, no kittens for me!) She has lived through one dog, and is now on her second. The first four adult cats and my first dog Abby and Echo got along famously. Seriously, I would read people's threads on how they had to keep their zoo separate and I couldn't even fathom the idea. I trained Abby in front of Echo, and smarty pants TAG copied those commands, so Abby was "controlled" by both me and the grey LOL It took her a while to figure out the differences! Abby was a mutt, but she was a spectacular dog and never once tried to eat the cats, the parrot, the ferrets, the mice and the degus that I also had at some time or another! Fast forward to four years ago. I got my current dog, Kyleigh, a long coat german shepherd, and my current cat, Raylan - a Siamese / himalayan mix. Between the two of them, if given the chance, they would eat Echo in a heart beat. It all depends on the animal, their prey drive, their personality, etc etc etc ...

This is new behaviour since the dog walker incident .... On the plus side, things ARE going very well considering how bad she was on Wednesday when I came home from work. The negatives are quite easy to deal with, just heartbreaking that I am even having to deal with them in the first place. This is the first time in 15 years that she's had something like this happen, so I can just imagine what's going on in her head.

We just finished a long weekend - Canadian Thanksgiving - and the weather was gorgeous! Progress with Echo has moved along a bit more. Saturday and Sunday she was pretty much the same - I could go in and out of the room, and stay there as long as I didn't move too fast. I've tried talking to her to let her know what I am going to do, but admittedly I forgot a couple of times and she flew at me. She's not attacking any more, more of a dive bomb and then the brat is laughing at me when she lands back on her perch. Yesterday was GORGEOUS. 25 degrees in Ottawa, and I had a TON of work to do in the backyard. Echo LOVES being outside in the yard with me, so I was really hoping we could make some progress. When I went into her room yesterday morning she was in her sleep cage - YEAH - for the FIRST time since Wednesday last week. I closed the door before she had a chance to do anything and brought her upstairs. (She only has a sleep cage, otherwise, she has the whole room to herself). I was able to put food in her bowl through the cage and we shared breakfast together. My dog was VERY interested. She never comes in contact with Echo because she would likely eat her LOL and Echo is so not afraid of dogs because her and my last dog were best buds. Anyway, I brought Echo's cage outside and put it up on the patio table and proceeded to clean out the garage, and then move stuff into the shed. Living in Ottawa, I use my garage in the winter for my car - not for storage! I had brought out the radio and she was whistling along and life was good. I was able to move her to the front yard with no problems (she didn't try and attack me through the cage) and then proceeded to take down my little white picket fence that goes around the whole front yard. I think she was impressed with all the swear words she heard me saying because not only was she whistling, but she was laughing at me. After 5 hours of being outside, I brought her back in to her room, and took advantage to do a really good clean up. I let her out and she flew at me and landed on my head. I admit, I was tense, and I was waiting for her to bite me. BUT she didn't! She flew back up onto her perch and I was able to leave the room with no hassles. I was gone for the rest of the day, and when I came back I went into her room, and she just watched me. I asked her to go to bed (her cue to go to her cage) but she wouldn't. So I stayed in the room for about an hour, and then asked her again. NOPE. So off I went. This morning, she was sleeping in her cage again when I went into the room, but as soon as she saw me coming she hustled out of her cage so fast it was pretty funny. So things are coming around. She's making her usual noises, but won't talk to me ... SIGH ... time will tell.

Thanks Acappella ... it's so very hard to not run up to her and do the games we usually do! BUT, I have loads of patience when it comes to animals (just not people LOL) so as long as she doesn't get "more stressed" I think time will be the best solution. Happy Thanksgiving weekend to any Canadians out there!

Thank you birdhouse. I have not been able to make any more headway with her, other than being in the room. I was able to sew and be on the computer, but as soon as I moved too quickly, she came after me. I didn't leave, I just stopped moving, covered my head and waited it out. She didn't bite me or anything, was just flapping her wings and making noises. In the 15 years I've had Echo there has NEVER been an incident such as this. She has led a very "sheltered" life. She'll eat pistachios if I'm not in the room, but not in front of me (little brat LOL) And, big sigh, she won't talk to me. We used to have such great conversations, so I am crossing my fingers that in time she'll decide she is safe and will start talking again. I can't get her to step up, and she won't go in to her cage, but I was able to clean her room. This morning I was able to go into her room with no issues, and bring her breakfast to her. I usually get a "thank you" but this morning she just glared at me. When I walked by the room to leave I peaked in the door and she was eating away - food all over her beak. So I'm thinking that she is OK, physically, she's just seriously been rattled and will need lots of time. I'm not going to have the parrot sitter come and get her. That was only a last resort if I couldn't actually get into the room. Fingers crossed that nothing else crops up later. Thanks again everyone.

SterlingSL - thank you for the laugh! I'm only afraid she would eat them all! Alas, it didn't work, but the screaming, growling, and launching herself at me has stopped. I've walked in and out of the room a number of times, and she is now accepting of that. I'm so thankful that I've made this much progress in just one day. I have to check my anger at the door - it makes me glad that I've worked as a certified dog trainer, and have learned how to "check emotions" when working with an animal. I just have to hope that she doesn't revert back in a day or two, or start plucking - I would probably lose my sanity if she started plucking! Thanks all for the tips and understanding of my anger!

Thanks Grey wings ... can I use the same kind for humans? Or should I use the one for dogs - the one for humans has like 0.0005% alcohol and the one for dogs has none (I have the human one, not the dog one LOL) Also, two good things: 1 - she took the video down, so I'm very happy about that 2 - I'm in the same room as Echo right now ... she's completely ignoring me, but at least she's not screaming, attacking or anything, and I'm acting like she's not even there I have a pistachio sitting on the top of my head in hopes she'll give in to her first love (the nut) ... time will tell

I appreciate that ... what I am hoping you will have some info on is my idea to help Echo ... having her go to the sitter's - that she LOVES to do ... then rearrange her room, and then bring her back to a new "safe" home ...

Dave - I THINK you are getting two people mixed up ... the dog walker (who is also one of my closest friends) is the one who freaked out Echo ... the bird sitter is someone Echo loves to bits and I would have her come and take Echo to her house for a couple of days to "settle" down and hopefully have some fun at her house. The sitter lives 1.5 hours away - one way, so not really feasible to do a couple of visits. They are two completely different people!!!! Also, I don't have a "sitter" that comes into the house for the bird / dog. If I go away, Echo goes to the sitter's house. My friend just comes to pick up the dog and take her for her run. She is a VERY good friend ... we spend a lot of time together ... that's why I'm so ticked off. The only man in the house is my dad, and he knows better! A nanny cam is a great idea ... IF Echo doesn't find it LOL ... then it's destroyed!

Yes, I meant men, thank you ... I fixed it! Echo's room is in the basement to the right, around the corner. To get to the dog - you go down the stairs and to the left, around the corner. So, she doesn't have to see Echo at all ... or even speak. She can stay out of sight. I can put up a curtain on the inside of Echo's room so it blocks the door, and I can lock the door. I'm pretty sure I don't need to lock the door though, after being attacked like she was, she's now terrified of her.

I haven't decided. The thing is, she's not just "the dog walker" she's one of my closest friends - just did something really really stupid. You know when you tell people NOT to do something, and they're like yeah yeah yeah, and you KNOW they aren't really taking you seriously? That's exactly what this situation was ... the thing is, she is a FABULOUS dog behaviourist - she can take pretty much ANY aggressive dog and work with it. Her decision yesterday was so out of character from what I've known about her for the last couple of years. That's why I put "showing off" for her husband, because it's the ONLY thing I can think of. Thanks for your other thoughts ... Sterling - NO LMAO - Echo is not going to the dog walker's house LOL Socializing - Echo is fine with women, not with men. I'm not married, don't have a boyfriend, don't want one ... I have two parrot sitters if needed - they are both women, Echo likes them both. I'm not a very social person at all ... I don't have people over at the house for visits - I come home from work, play with Echo, walk the dog / work the dog, quilt / go on the computer - which is in Echo's room ... In the nice weather - Echo comes outside in her cage by the pond, or when I'm working in the garden. I don't socialize, so it will be very hard for her to LOL

Echo is 15 years old, I've had her since she was 5 months old. We have a great bond, have never had any issues, behaviour problems, etc. (OH, she's not perfect LOL, I've just been very lucky in that she's overall a great parrot). Once of my closest friends is also my dog walker. She has been fascinated by parrots for years, and is quite enamoured of Echo. Echo ... not so much. She'll MAYBE step up on her perch for her, but not always. Most times she just stares at her. I have told her 1000000 times NOT to go into her bird room, and have also told her that Echo DESPISES men, and I mean HATES them. She is a great person, but yesterday she made a very bad decision, and I'm absolutely livid, and have been since ... and Echo is suffering from it. Her husband came with her to pick up the dog (I know her husband he's also a great guy) for their walk and she decided to "show off" (Ok, maybe I'm being rude here, but I'm still very upset). She went into Echo's room, and her husband started taping the "session" with his phone. Echo freaked - she flat out flew after her (she's fully flighted), biting her, beating her wings on her head, screeching at her. She was on the ground on her hands and knees and crawled over to the table and Echo flew off, and as soon as she moved to get up, Echo went after her again. This happened four times before she was able to get out of the room. And to make matters worse (in my mind) she posted this on facebook, and everyone thought it was funny. I had NO idea about any of this while I was at work. I come home and walk into Echo's room and Echo launched herself at me - screeching, biting, flapping wings, the whole shebang. I was STUNNED to say the least. Went outside to walk the dog, checked my phone, saw the messages, watched the video, read the comments, saw red ... but then understood Echo's reaction. I spent over 3 hours last night trying to get into her room. I couldn't. I tried talking through the door, no luck, tossing pistachios, no luck. Nothing. I can't even get in there to change her food and water bowls. This morning, I was able to go in to her room because she was in her cage, and couldn't get out fast enough. (She has a sleep cage only). This meant I could change her food / water and change the newspapers. She screamed at me the whole time. (My poor dad WAS trying to sleep LOL) I have spoken to my parrot sitter, and we have this theory: Echo's space was completely violated by someone she doesn't trust - having a male around made it worse. She's in "defensive / aggressive" mode and a couple of days might help (or not???) We have a plan that if I can't get into the room tonight (which also has my computer and sewing machine in there!) then she would take Echo to her house for a couple of days to help her relax. Echo LOVES LOVES LOVES going to her place. While Echo is gone, I would rearrange the room so that it's "new" and she is coming back to a "safe" place. Does anyone have any thoughts / experiences on these kinds of situations? ANYTHING is welcome, and thanks in advance.

Have you tried telling him that it's not nice to bite? Now that you've quit laughing at me (hahahaha!) I am quite serious! They understand so very much that we don't appreciate! When you're bitten you feel hurt but also frustrated ... he's probably latching on to the frustration more than the hurt. Also, you mention that after a couple of minutes ... you could stop petting him after 30 seconds and then walk away ... make him BEG for your attention. Then if he does bite (or when LOL) say WOW, that's not nice at all and walk away. Flat out ignore him. Then about 10 minutes later go back into the room, with a treat of course, and read a book out loud ... he'll naturally come over to see what's going on ... pet him (if he invites it), but stop after 30 seconds or so, give him and treat say what a good bird and then go back to reading. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. It sounds more like learned behaviour than anything else! Good luck!

I have full spectrum lights in Echo's room ... There are two light bulbs from the ceiling, and two other lights that shine around the room. It's very bright, and acts just like sunlight. The bulbs are a tad expensive, but they last a LONG time. I've had the same bulbs for 5 years and they are on from 6 am to 9 pm. I live in Ottawa, ON and in the winter months she would get absolutely NO natural sunlight so I put those lights in when she was just a baby. It also helps me! Keeps me healthy, alert and happy during our blah long dreary 6 months of icky weather!

That's hilarious ... at least you don't have a terrified grey! There are so many of those! The only other option I can think of? Get a new light LOL

Nancy, There's got to be SOMETHING she doesn't like! For Echo - she doesn't like cat flirt poles, so I leave one draped across my computer monitor (I have a touch screen LOL) Tinsel, a boa, a big stuffed snake, something has to work! LOL ... And when you find it, let us know!!!!

I did not know they could have shrimp I will definitely be trying that I would echo this weekend

I always love when Dave answers!

Thanks Greywings ... I've pretty much done all of those! I had no idea Siamese (mix or not) were so difficult ... all my other cats were just that ... CATS LOL ... and they loved loved loved anything I fed them!

This is a tough one. Echo is 15 and has only been clipped twice in her life. Once when I brought her home (for whatever reason the breeder decided she needed to be clipped). The second time was about 8 years ago. I was living with a friend of mine for about a year and a half. There were four large dogs in the house and two cats and Echo. There were no worries about anyone eating anyone, so life was good. UNTIL Echo decided she was going to dive bomb the dogs while they were sleeping on the floor. Four dogs (a bernese, a lab, a husky and a shepherd mix) sound asleep on the kitchen floor and Echo would dive bomb them screaming WOOOWWWW as she went about 2 inches over their heads. The first time she did it, I took her off the top of the door frame gave her a talking to and put her back on her cage. She did it two more times (thankfully nothing happened, except the dogs got the crap scared out of them). I told her on the second time - if you dive bomb the dogs again I will clip your wings. Did the talking to, put her in her cage and reminded her what would happen. 10 minutes later she did it again. I picked her up, put her upside down in my hand and did a VERY MILD clip - like an inch off three feathers. She was ticked - don't get me wrong. She pouted on her cage like there was no tomorrow. But she never did it again! (And trust me, she could still fly). I know this is contrary to everything you are hearing / reading from other people, but I just wanted to present another option (of a very very mild clip) that could perhaps help you with your situation. I don't know anything about you or your parrot ... just putting out MY experience with Echo, and the outcome I had. Good luck on whatever you go with. Marion