Alex, my rescued 18 years old African Grey

[samansad]

So I think I did something wrong last night.

I was playing with Alex's beak. He put my finger in his beak and at first he didn't bite. Then suddenly he started chewing my finger with all his power. I was quiet and act as if nothing happened. Till I started bleeding and I couldn't handle the pain anymore. so I stood up, look to his eyes with anger, and said No. He did not stop, and I kept repeating No, Alex No. After a while I got mad, turned my finger, and pulled it out of his beak. Then continued staring in his face with no voice, but with angry face. He started acting like a victorious proud bird and tried to bite my face, but he couldn't reach my face. So I told him, Alex No and he didn't stop till I got really mad, and made a big mistake.

There is this small dear's horn that I have, and Alex is so scared of it. I picked it up, and as soon as he saw that in my hand he got scared, and try to step back. I brought the horn close to him, he screamed, and started fighting with the horn. I continued till he gave up and moved to the side of his cage out of fear.

Then I closed his cage door and left to take care of my bleeding finger.

After I was ok, I came back to him, and started talking to him. I touched his beak again and he did not try to bite me.

 

I know what I did was wrong but I want to know, what could I have done to take advantage of this moment, and move one step closer towards building trust with him?

 

Before, with my other types of parrots, I used to hold their beaks in situation like this. When I hold their beaks, they stop biting, and stepped back. I am not sure if this is a good idea for Greys. I was also thinking maybe I should have brought my other hand towards his chest to make him step up, since his beak was busy biting my finger.

[SRSeedBurners]

Greycie will do this to me occasionally. She frequently holds a finger in her beak gently and that's usually a request to scratch with the other finger. I get stuck that way for a few minutes. But on occasion she will do just as you mentioned and turn on me. I don't put up with it for a second. Loud NOs and the other hand comes in for the rescue. I will not let her continue to gnaw clear to the bone which she will do.

 

When they do that they are communicating but it will take someone else here to tell you what they are communicating. My guess is 'stop whatever the hell you're doing - now'.

[samansad]

Loud NOs and the other hand comes in for the rescue. I will not let her continue to gnaw clear to the bone which she will do.

 

What do you mean that the other hand comes in for help? Do you hold her beak? Does she attack your other hand?

 

I heard from another person that he use to tap his Grey's beak to show him stop biting.

[SRSeedBurners]

What do you mean that the other hand comes in for help? Do you hold her beak? Does she attack your other hand?

 

I heard from another person that he use to tap his Grey's beak to show him stop biting.

 

 

Yes, I get a grip on her and remove her from hurting me any further. I don't put up with any non-sense but remember, mine is a handfed baby with only issues that I've created. We know each other unlike a bird from an unknown background. I have had two birds that we re-homed and I was quite different with them. I would allow them to clamp down with little to no reaction from me just to try and gain trust.

[samansad]

Great point for new birds.

 

Thank you

[neoow]

It's so difficult to know what to do in this kind of situation- especially as it is very painful and difficult to try and ride it out.

However, please don't beat yourself up about it. 'Mistakes' will be made and learned from. It is going to be much more difficult for you to know how to handle these situations because you don't know how much baggage Alex has brought along with him.

 

Other members will probably have more experience and better ideas than me on how to deal with this sort of thing. I can't recall a time when Alfie has properly clamped on to me when biting so I don't really know how I would react to this (probably not very well- I have no idea how you could just sit there calmly and take the bite for so long!)

[Greywings]

First of all it hurts, hurts you finger and even worse your feelings. Trust is maimed as badly as your fingers so I would back off and work on trust building again this time for you to be the one learning to trust again. Hard to know for certain what was going through his brain right then but it sounds like his reaction was excited and we do not want to reinforce any of the bitey behavior. If it was me he would be caged immediately and ignored for a span of time say 15 minutes or so. Remember carefully to notice any change in his body language just prior to the bite so you have any clues to help you avoid getting another good chomp. Distraction often helps I have found it a good tool when working with people, birds or dogs that are being difficult or overexcited.

[samansad]

Thank you all for your great notes.

 

I can agree with neoow. I do not know how much baggage he has. I am sure he is still scared of me. There are so many times that I go close to him and I can see him shaking, and being quiet. After I talk to him, and sometimes kissing him then he starts acting happily. I can feel that he was punished in his passed, life and he is scared of punishment.

But also there are times when he is so arrogant, and when I go to him he make a very loud sounds (not scream) and he puffs up to show that he is ready to fight. Mostly when he is resting. So, I should talk to him and maybe shake my head till he feels relax and start dancing with me.

 

Greywings: I think my trust for him is ok because my love for him is unconditional. So till now I am playing with him and still touching his beak, but just more focused on his body language to see if I should stop.

 

I also like to learn one action that he does. Sometimes he start dancing and shaking his head then slowly he starts hitting his cage, or his perch with hit beak. What does this mean? Is he frustrated or is he excited?

 

I had parrots before that didn't have baggage and it was way easier to read their mood. Unlike Alex is so complicated.

[samansad]

Hello all,

 

It has been a long time that I did not post anything here. I wish I could write good news and nice things but sadly, after more than a year Alex did not make any improvement. He is still so aggressive and bites to death. He even tried to bite my dad's eye, while he was refiling his food. Luckily my dad moved his head at the right moment. However, Alex left a big cut on my dad's eye brow. He does not step up and he does not allow us get close to him.

The biggest issue is that Alex screams too much. I had parrot before and I know they are noisy but Alex's scream, does not sound normal African Grey. Alex never growl! We have 4 other African Greys in our relatives and none of them scream like that. His scream sounds like out of stress and anger.

It is a type of scream that if you are in the same room with him you will get headache in few minutes.

I took a video of him screaming. You can check this:

 

 

Anyway as much as I love Alex, I am being forced by my family to find new home for him because of his screams. I don't know how to do it. I was wondering if any of you knows a good website that I can post about him and find new home for him (((((

 

Reminder: Alex is 19 years old and I got him last year.

 

Thank you

[Luvparrots]

Sorry to hear that you think your grey is "too" loud/noisey.

[samansad]

Well I don't think Alex is too noisy! But I am sure that type of scream is not normal.

[neoow]

Funnily enough, I was wondering how things were going with yourself and Alex the other day. I'm sorry to hear it's sad news.

 

I can't watch the video as I'm not at home at the moment- but I'll watch it later (out of earshot of Alfie!!).

 

I'm not sure what to suggest at this stage. It's very difficult when other family/house members aren't on board and put pressure on you. What are your thoughts? Given the choice (with no peer pressure) would you continue to work with Alex? Or are you at the end of your tether too?

[SRSeedBurners]

Well I don't think Alex is too noisy! But I am sure that type of scream is not normal.

 

 

Actually, if you're on Facebook, go to Project Perry's page and listen to some of their videos. Your bird is making wild African Grey noises. Perfectly normal for them. I wish you were stateside, I would direct you to them in placing him.

[samansad]

Thanks for understanding the pressure of other house members, rather than judging blindly.

Well if I can find a way to keep him, I never let go of Alex.

I was also thinking since summer is here, then maybe I can place Alex's cage outside in the deck. Is that a wrong idea? If I do that, then he will be alone till I get home and spend time with him.

 

Also if and only if Alex was not this wild and allow us to pet him or move him around the house then I could make a place for him to be there when I am not home then bring him in when I am home. Because Alex rarely screams if I am around, but as soon as I leave, even if I go to restroom he keeps on screaming. Alex does not allow anybody to get close to him and he bites and chew the skin and make my fingers bleeding badly.

 

I gave up on bringing my hand close to him or asking him to step up. I touch his belly when he is in the cage and he doesn't get angry. he still gives me kisses and if the cage door is closed he allows me to touch his beak from outside. But if the cage door is open he does his best to bite.

 

One other option is to change Alex's cage to a small cage so I can move him around using his cage. I am not sure if that is a good idea at all.

 

I also cannot blame other house holds. For last one year Alex did not show love to us even for a second. If his behavior was different then maybe they could accept him better too.

[samansad]

Thanks for the link. I consider that if I end up letting go of Alex. Also I am living in Nashville TN.

 

Anyway, I am not sure if your African Grey does the same scream, but as I said Alex is not the only one in our relatives. There are couple of more African Grey in our relatives. All other African Grey that I saw, growl and make the African grey scream but I never saw one that make his body big like Alex then scream like that. Alex's scream does not sound a joyful or relax or normal to me at all.

 

I had different type of parrot before and she was not screaming this way unless she was asking for help because she was scared to death. Usually she did that when she was scared of another pet.

[SRSeedBurners]

For some reason I thought you lived in the middle east. I'm getting my forum members confused! Since you live in TN, you might contact Project Perry and see if they have any advice. They usually take in birds permanently but I don't think yours has reached that point. Your bird just needs someone with some serious CAG know-how and TIME.

 

Also, I wouldn't put the bird out on the deck unsupervised during the day while you're at work. Something will eventually figure out how to prey on him.

[neoow]

Apologies, I totally forgot to come back and watch the video yesterday.

I just watched it, but without sound as I'm at work on lunch at the moment.

I don't think this is a fear reaction. From body language alone, Alex looks fairly relaxed. His foot is lifted and tucked up a couple of times, he has a good stretch. If he was angry/scared then he would be as puffed up to make himself as big and scary as possible. Every feather would be sticking up away from the body. Similar to the first picture on this page: https://www.beautyofbirds.com/understandingparrots.html

 

Greys (and other parrots) will learn loud noises. Obviously some of these sounds will be undesirable to us (such as the screams). But once a bird learns (and likes) these sounds, it can be difficult to encourage them not to keep doing it. Similarly, once a bird learns to bite out of fear/aggression then it is going to be very difficult to prevent that behaviour.

 

Alex has several years of experience outside of your home. He has only been with you a year. He is probably still adapting to the change of coming to your home, getting used to new people, learning routines etc. With a rescue bird there is so much additional baggage that comes with them and so much you don't know about the bird. How were they treated, what behaviours have been learned or enforced in their previous home(s). It can take years to unpick the behaviours, find out the triggers and eventually start to encourage the bird to adapt/change to their new life. Look up Miss Gilbert's thread by Katana on this forum and you'll see what I mean.

 

I think an important decision needs to be made- but in order to keep Alex everyone needs to be on board. If you want to keep Alex and keep working with him and give him the best home he will ever have, then you need agreement from everyone in the house. It will be a long hard road and it will probably test every last bit of patience that all of you possess. But there needs to be an understanding here. Alex will not willingly step up. Not now, not next week, not next month... heck, maybe not even next year. Alex will bite. It is obviously his go to reaction when someone is in his space. Clearly that behaviour has come from his previous home(s). Again, this behaviour will difficult to change. Alex will scream. He will make lots of loud obnoxious noises. These are the sounds he has learned so he will use them. So- the question here is- are you AND your family willing to accept him into your home and into your lives, as is, with no expectations that these behaviours will change any time soon? Are you ALL willing to pitch in and try and encourage Alex to adapt and learn at HIS PACE, not yours?

 

I can tell from your previous posts that you are very keen to get on with Alex and to care for him and help him- which is great. But unless your whole household is going to try and do the same, then you're going to have issues. They won't be happy, you won't be happy and more importantly, Alex won't be happy. It is a very big ask and it will be a monumental task to try and get Alex to adapt and change to fit in with the household.

 

I don't think leaving him outside for long periods of time will help. Especially if you won't be there to bring him in if the weather changes. Or protect him from predators or other things that may scare him. He is not going to learn to be social if he is outside on his own. He's not going to learn anything out there.

 

Similarly- a smaller cage is a no. Changing his cage at all is a no. Alex is unsettled. He's had a lot of upheaval in his life and the most important thing he needs is stability and routine. If he's being left in his cage whilst you're not there then a smaller cage is not an option. He needs his own space and space for fun toys to amuse himself with whilst you're not there.

 

You mention he screams when you leave the room. Well this could actually be him contact calling. You're a member of his flock. You're out of sight- he will call to you to find out where you are. If this is the case, maybe you can use this to your advantage. Whenever he makes a sound that is acceptable- answer back. Call him name, whistle... whatever. Do the same when you're in the room and also when you're away from the room. When he screams. Don't respond, don't react. Only respond when a desirable noise is made. It might not work straight away and it may take some time, but gradually Alex may learn what noises get a reaction and what noises don't. Any attention (positive or negative) is still attention in a grey's noise. So by not reacting, Alex doesn't get attention and therefore he learns that those noises aren't really worth making any more. (Well, unless he happens to like them regardless... then you're stuck) Your family/household need to do exactly the same.

 

Just remember- Alex is a wild animal. He is not domesticated like a dog or a cat are. He's not going to be that trainable. He's going to need time to adjust, adapt and learn. Nobody can say for sure how long this will take. But a year in a grey's life is not a long time. This whole process of Alex coming into your life and learning to socialise, step up, fit in to the household routine etc could take several years. It is important to embrace that and go at Alex's own pace, without trying to rush him into adapting to his new life before he is ready. Again, the Miss Gilbert rehoming thread is an exceptional example of this.

 

Apologies if some of this post comes across as harsh or rude, that is not my intention at all. I would much rather that you were able to come to an agreement with your family to keep Alex and work with him- but obviously this is not always possible, particularly if someone isn't an animal/bird person and doesn't want to understand the complex needs and requirements of a parrot. IF this is the case, and it pains me to say it, then perhaps the best thing for all would be for Alex to move to a different home.

[samansad]

Thank you for all your input guys. I still don't know what to do. If being outside is not an option then I might end up finding new home for him

[katana600]

We are far from home, staying in Houston with the birth of our first grandchild. Miss Gilbert is with us and I really feel for you and Alex. Miss Gilbert has not been on her best behavior. She too has been loudly "hooting", whistling and screeching. Her life has changed and she wants to go home. My family would like for me to put her outside but other than taking her in the sunshine while I am there beside her, I wouldn't leave her out alone. Will check back with you in a week or two when we return to Atlanta.

[birdhouse]

When I first read your post, I wanted to swoop in w/all the behavioral remedies I could think up because I really feel your pain. Because I know what it's like to hit the wall & run out of steam & ideas & patience. Lots of times, all you really need is a place to vent & people to give you enough e-hugs to get you going again. And that's something we can do.

 

I think you deserve tons of respect for everything you've done to try to make this work. But it really sounds like this may have come down to an unwinnable contest between your existing flock/housemates/family & this little being who only knows how to react to it's surroundings, based on it's own instincts & experiences. It's a bad situation that isn't fair to anyone. Part of the reason why rescue is not something everyone can do is because sometimes adoptions don't work out in spite of all the best intentions & efforts. As unquestionably heart breaking as it is to love & lose a fid, it's so much worse even for such a sensitive & intelligent creature to spend its very long life in a bad match.

 

If you make that decision, you could post in the classified forum here. You can link w/whichever of your posts you think will help anyone who wants to adopt Alex know about him & his issues. You can also post to ask all the members what they think about people who respond or what they think you might want to find out to help find the best possible new home.

 

You can post on Craig's List. But that's a scary place to get around sometimes. There are awesome people out there. But there are awful people, too. Sometimes is hard to tell them apart.

 

This is a list of (supposed) parrot rescues in the vicinity. I think these are your best bet for a lot of reasons. First, it's what they do all day long ...finding great homes for lost little fids. Second, they might be able to get you in touch w/some people who can actually work with you in person. Unlike us, who have to depend on what you write & how we read it. Someone might be able to see you live & watch what's working or not & be able to help get you hooked up w/real answers, not just blind suggestions. Contacting a rescue group might just give you another chance to work things out.

 

http://bird.rescueshelter.com/Tennessee

 

And if you'll forgive me for saying, don't trust them w/o checking them out first, either. Like everything else, there's good & bad out there.

[neoow]

Thank you for all your input guys. I still don't know what to do. If being outside is not an option then I might end up finding new home for him

 

Try not to be rushed into a decision by others.

 

A few years back I was trying to decide whether or not to rehome Alfie because I didn't feel I was providing the best environment for him. It took me months to come to my final decision. I know if I had rushed into a decision I would have made the wrong one and regretted it.

 

I appreciate you have more to contend with than I did though, as other members of your household are also a factor in the decision making process. I didn't have that. At worst I only had to deal with a housemate who (thankfully) kept out of it, even though he doesn't necessarily like the idea of birds (or Alfie) asv a pet. When I made my decision I was able to say "Alfie is staying put regardless of your opinion" as it was my house. Very different scenario when you aren't the sole owner of the house!

(As an added bonus, my housemate and Alfie have built up a little bit of mutual tolerance/respect over the last couple of years!)

[samansad]

Dear all,

 

Just to give you an update, I have been out of country for couple weeks. I came back two weeks ago and I found out that my family moved Alex outside of the house. I got so mad and started arguing to bring him back inside. However, in last 2 weeks I was not successful and something made me to stop arguing.

I can see Alex is way more happier now compare to the time that he was inside. Alex allows us to touch him, he doesn't bite anymore and he is playing well. (I did not try to bring him out and ask him to step up yet).

Today while playing with Alex I saw new behavior from Alex. I recorded his video. Two things are new, first the sound that Alex is making, and second, Alex throw up food intentionally and leave it on my finger!

What do you think that sound means and why he is leaving food on my finger?

 

 

Thank you,

[neoow]

He is regurgitating. He loves you! It's a mating behaviour I believe.

[samansad]

Just to share a really good news. This is the video of Alex stepping up for very first time. I feel so happy and my relationship with Alex is so good now. He loves to hang out on my shoulder.

 

I just have a question. What is the best way to play with Alex? Like when the two of us are together how can I make his time to be more fun for him?

[Luvparrots]

Congrats!!!! Great video.