Need help in training Alex

[samansad]

Hi all,

I adopted Alex less than a month ago. He had a stressful life. But he is accepting his new home and start trusting me. He gives me kiss and never try to bite my lips. Anyway he still bite my hand and he bites so hard and so painful. I am trying to make him trust my hand and slowly teach him to Step Up. Well I cannot make enough progress since he bites. You can watch this video, it shows my first attempted to bring my hand close to him while he is out of cage. You can see how aggressively he bites. If you can please watch this video and give me advice and tell me what I am doing wrong. Also I am thinking to use gloves so when he bites I don't need to pull my hand away. I started using gloves yesterday. First few times he was scared of my hand in glove and he didn't like it. But I started feeding him while wearing gloves and he accepted my gloves. He bite but when I tell him No he stop biting. Is it ok to use gloves untill he learn not to bite?

 

FYI: Alex is 18 years old.

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[SRSeedBurners]

I do have one suggestion which I use around unknown birds or known biters:

 

When they are acting as Alex is in the video, I use the back of my wrist with my hand clenched and turned away from the bird. The idea is to not give them any loose skin to grab hold of and bite yet keep inside of their bubble. Once they tire of trying to get a hold on you and make you flinch, that's when I will start to use more vulnerable parts of my hand to work with them.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Alex is amazing and beautiful!Truly likes you. You missed a few opportunities with head down, waiting for a scratch on the neck. ( he probably still would have bit you though). I believe in NEVER being shorter than the cage. Get a step stool, and always be taller than the cage. Working off the door is excellent! Another thought is to read to him in front of his cage nightly. Sophie loved anything that rhymed. Shell Silverstein, Cat in the Hat... Thomas the Tank Engine... I can go on and on all of Sophie's favorite books. You are close.... Nancy

[neoow]

I'm sorry, I can't offer much advice with this one. But other members will be able to offer help and ideas. I just wanted to say well done for taking Alex in and being so keen to learn about him/how to handle and train him etc. I have no doubt that over time your relationship with Alex will grow and flourish and he will start to reward you in many different ways. You're doing all the right things by seeking advice and listening to the advice given.

[Echo's Mom]

I had a quaker many years ago and she was a feisty little thing ... she would bite / lunge / nail me every single chance she could. I brought her home with a badly healed broken wing and broken leg - she had been thrown against a wall.

 

I tried all kinds of things and the ONE thing that worked the best? I put some seeds in a tablespoon and offered them to her ... it took a couple hundred tablespoons of seeds going helter skelter before she got the idea that I wasn't trying to kill her LOL

 

Once I got her eating some seeds from the spoon, I was able to move the spoon around and have her come towards me.

 

Then I introduced a perch (for her it was a small dowel with some vet wrap on it) and worked on getting her up on the perch.

 

From the perch to my hand - the whole process took me about a month - and a lot of seeds that went flying LOL ... but once she got over her fear, she was amazing! I would come into the room and she would run / wobble / hobble over to me as fast as she could to come and see me!

 

Good luck, and patience will always help you succeed!

[Acappella]

I know you don't want to hear this but right now I'd respect his wishes. He's being very polite pushing your fingers away and only bit when you tried to put a hand behind him, which would get me bit by Dorian as well. What you have to do is to make him want to leave his cage. That means making the space around his cage look exciting and fun to explore. I spent lots of time sitting on the ground in front of Dorian's cage making/playing with toys, the cat, reading, watching tv, until he climbed down the front of his cage to investigate what I was doing. I remember how thrilled I was the first time his little head hung down under his cage and he stretched out as far as he could towards me to try to reach what I was doing. It took a while though. Mount a couple of perches on the outside of his cage and see if he will come down from the top of his cage to explore them. Maybe put toys on them. Once he's on a perch you can try putting your arm between Alex and the cage and then stepping him up with your other hand. If he doesn't want to, though, you may get bit. Try not to react with a yelp like you did on the video when you got bit. They can get addicted to the drama and actually like getting that reaction. A shake of the head, a sad face, and a "no bite" is a good way to react. I'm not a big fan of gloves. I'd rather avoid situations where I'm likely to get bit. You're doing great and so is Alex. Seriously. For the amount of time you've had him your interactions are great. Keep up the good work.

[samansad]

Thank you so so much for your advice. I know Alex is pretty awesome bird. He still has fear and sometimes I can see he is shaking. What I like is that, he comes and get his treats from me even if he is shaking out of fear. He has a better trust when he is in his cage behind the bars(I have to be outside the cage, not bringing hand inside the cage). He likes giving me kisses and he never even tried to bite my lips.

He is not going on the lower part of his cage even if I put toys for him. So I am not sure how long it will take for him to trust me enough to come down from his cage.

He didn't have a good life before and I am sure some his fears come from past. He is so afraid of other pets and I am happy that I don't have any other pet.

He enjoys talking and whistling and he likes to play whistle game.

Again thanks for your advice.

[Timbersmom]

You and Alex are getting along great for this stage of your relationship. Greys are very slow to trust. There was lots of good advice given. As Accapella said, don't let your hand come at him from the back, it will freak him out every time. Also, unless you were dripping blood and had hanging skin, that was a warning, not a true bite. I say this from experience and have the scars to prove it. Give Alex more time. As some one else pointed out, he lowered his head a few times. When Timber does that he wants a head rub. Be careful though, he could still startle and nail you. Take at his pace, which is probably sloooow, and try some of the things mentioned.

 

This may not apply to Alex, but I'm going to throw it out there. Every time I would try to get Timber to step up on my hand he would bite. I also can't say "step-up." Not sure what happened in his past, but those are no-nos. I finally found out he will step up on my forearm, and I use "wanna go?" as the command. One of the hardest things about rehoming is not knowing their past and what makes them react like they do. It's a learn as you go thing.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Alex is a very healthy bird! Normal responses, and is going to do great! He needs time to get use to the door, as I am sure, he is not use to being outside of his cage much. Get him comfortable with his door, get a step stool and start working on stepup, step down off the door. Praise like crazy when he does it. ( no going anywhere!) Once Alex is comfortable with stepup and step down, go on a tour of your home. Return, when Alex is uncomfortable! We did this like crazy with Sophie. She LOVED her tour, and wanted more. Stepup and step down, are obsolete for us now. Her foot is always up and ready to go... that should always be the goal. Nancy

[Acappella]

Timbersmom is right, you never know what baggage they're bringing with them. I can't say 'step up' to Dorian either, I have to ask him if he wants to 'come with mom'. Like I said before, Alex is being very polite with you right now. Don't push things so hard that he feels he has to be more assertive with you - the biting that results could become a habit..

[samansad]

Thank you everybody for your wonderful advice. Alex is building more trust everyday.

Just to give you an update here is the video of Alex giving me a kiss while he is out of his cage. He start giving kisses while he was in his cage from second week but out of his cage he is so scared. Even when some body passes by, he run back to his cage. I am not sure what had happened to him in his past life but I am willing to be patient and work with him slowly.

Please feel free to give me any advice.

 

 

Thanks again

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

You are a natural! Alex is going to do well under your care. He is hesitant, but wants to trust you. Routine, routine, routine! Establish the trust. Watching the videos, Alex is a very healthy grey, both physically and emotionally. He is going to thrive! Work on stepup and step down off the door for several weeks. DON"T go anywhere. Stop with the kisses on the face. Greys need to learn wrist status only, for as long as it takes,until they trust you, then get shoulder status. Be taller than your grey, when educating...a difference of opinion on this site. Nancy

[samansad]

Ok, so after I learned not to make any reaction when Alex bites me, now I have new problem. I am trying to teach Alex to step up, but he run away from my hand. See the video and please give me advice on what I am doing wrong.

Thank you

 

[neoow]

This is interesting. He's obviously now realized that biting won't get him anywhere- that you're made of tougher stuff than he originally thought! So it worked- well done you!

 

You know when you showed him the treat and he was reaching for it but you were pulling it away? You might be able to use this to your advantage.

 

Show him the treat. Get him excited about the treat. Make him well aware that the treat is in your hand and that he can't reach it. Then, put your other hand between Alex and the treat. Move towards the cage slowly, showing him the treat and telling him that you have a tasty treat for him. Don't use the step up command just yet. Just focus on how tasty the treat is. There is a possibility that the command "step up" has negative connotations from him previous home. So don't use it just yet. Keep your arm in front of the treat so that if he REALLY wants the treat, he'll have to use you as a method of getting it. (Just like you started to do in the video). If he runs away, let him. Just show him the treat again and see if he comes back.

 

You might have to break it down a bit further if he's still not playing ball- let him have a treat if he comes over to you. Then see if he will take the treat when you have the other arm nearby. Just keep going. Just keep going until he realises that you're not a threat and that coming to you = treats and praise.

 

Keep training sessions short and simple though. 10-15 mins at a time should do it.

[JeffNOK]

I have enjoyed watching your videos. I think Alex does trust you and that you are working well with him. I especially liked the one where he gives you a kiss. In my opinion you need to slow down a bit with the step up. I think when he starts walking away from you, you should not pursue him and keep asking. When I have my grey step up, 99% of the time, it is an invitation-not a command. I ask her "Gracie, wanna step up?" If she says no, I just say "Ok maybe next time." Your tone seems slightly dominant--almost like you are asking a dog to sit. Greys tend to respond less well to that. Greys need to feel they have a choice in the matter and are not being told what to do. Dogs are different--they need to be told and respond well to being submissive to their owner. I like what neoow said about breaking it down in steps with treats. For Alex, stepping up needs to be a fun thing he wants to do rather than an obligation. Also, I notice the sound of a slight banging on the cage door. Is that a form of touch training? I haven't done touch training, so I am not sure the correct method, but the noise is a slightly loud and may intimidate Alex.

 

One other thing, when you ask Alex to step up, I would be sure that your hand is right up against his stomach/almost touching. Much of the the time your hand is too far away and in a poor position for him to steo up. He would have to walk toward you, position himself, and then step up. If your hand is right there almost touching his belly, all he has to do is step up.

Edited June 22, 2015 by JeffNOK

[samansad]

Thank you Neoow and JeffNOK for your great advice.

[samansad]

Also, I notice the sound of a slight banging on the cage door. Is that a form of touch training? I haven't done touch training, so I am not sure the correct method, but the noise is a slightly loud and may intimidate Alex.

 

Thank you so much for your encouragement and great advice. I am not sure which sound you are talking about but if you mean the sound on 00:27 part of the video. It is Alex by himself. When he doesn't like me being close to him or when his food bowl is empty or when he doesn't like what I am doing (like cleaning his cage) he make that sound. He bites his cage and try to make that sound to tell me he is not happy with something. I think here he meant leave me alone!

[JeffNOK]

Ah ok. My grey also pecks at a toy or part of her cage when she wants people to back off. Yes, Alex is communicating with you. When Alex does that, listen to him. When he sees that you respect his wishes, he will be less fearful and more open. It does take time, and you may feel you will never get there. I am sure many people here have talked about "Grey Time". It is a real thing, and it is completely up to them. To be frank, right now I think you should focus mainly only bonding with him and earning trust. I got a baby grey rather than a rescue, and even with her, it took several months to really establish trust.

[samansad]

Yup I am willing to wait for him even if it takes years.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

[Dave007]

Ok, so after I learned not to make any reaction when Alex bites me, now I have new problem. I am trying to teach Alex to step up, but he run away from my hand. See the video and please give me advice on what I am doing wrong.

Thank you

 

 

I wrote this a long time ago but now a days I paste it because your situation is exactly like your and I don't feel like retying it over and over again. I put a few things that aimed just for you.If it's an adult that's been owned by others, the bird's attitude probably started then. There's plenty of things that the bird has to get used to in his new home---household habits---new people----other pets----new environment----general hustle and bustle of the house etc etc. That usually takes months, not weeks. The bird has to first feel assured and comfortable in it's new house. Lots of talking to the bird, having the bird in the middle of everything that goes on in the house on a daily basis. The bird has to learn your habits, the husband's habits. Immediate intense physical handling is not a good idea right now. At this time, it's not a good idea to have lots of strangers constantly hanging around your bird. There's a couple of 'classification' names that apply to all pre owned adult parrots that're adopted. One is 'the bird has a past history' and the other is 'the bird has some baggage attached'. Most of the time, history and baggage can't be gotten rid of. It can be modified though as soon as your new bird realizes that many things are now different.

Handling your bird is an individual thing because your bird has it's own personality unlike any other bird even though it might be the same species. The best thing to do right now is to say to yourself that "I shouldn't be disappointed if everything I hope will happen doesn't happen". Having that attitude allows you to see the many other great features of your new bird and will help you to enjoy and appreciate them. I have some pre owned parrots and none of them are 'ideal'. They're simply great birds and I'm glad they're happy. Some of them were serious biters. My wife and I, working with them for quite a while, have succeeded in lessening the bites BUT they still bite. It doesn't completely go away.

===================================================================

 

3 weeks, 4 weeks, 5 weeks, 6 weeks, 7 weeks or even longer is a very short time. If the bird is an adult, that is insufficient time for the "getting to know you" period.Often parrots chose a human (for reasons unrelated to gender) because they are able to "feel" the attitude that emanates from a particular human. Persons of either gender who are calm and don't exhibit jerky or fast movements, who exude compassion for a parrot's utterly dependent and relatively helpless captive state, are more likely to be accepted.

 

Fear biting can quickly become learned or habitual biting. By putting yourself in a situation where the bird will bite, he is being taught that biting will get him what he wants - to be free of your attention.

 

I would recommend that you position a chair at a comfortable distance from the cage (you can determine what the bird's comfort level is by his reaction to the position of the chair), sit quietly and read the newspaper or magazine aloud and incorporate the bird's name into the narrative. Have a quantity of very small treats handy. When/if the bird comes down the side of the cage (he is locked in his cage), offer the small treat. He may accept it; he may throw it on the floor. If you don't wanna do this, fid a similar method.

 

One thing about that video-----you're trying to coax him onto your hand. You're offering it and then taking your hand back. You're teasing and making the bird leery of you. its obvious to me that he doesn't wanna stretch out to get it. Just doing that is enough for a bird to bite you when you get closer. Offer the treat in such a way that he is unable to bite your fingers. I suggest holding a tiny bit of the treat between your thumb and first finger. Most of the treat will be sticking out and it should be easy to determine if the bird is going for your fingers or for the treat. If he takes the treat, all well and good. If he goes for your fingers, ostentatiously drop the treat into his bowl inside the cage from the outside of the cage and return to your seat. If you can't do this, then don't do it.

The treat must be one that he wants. Many birds like pine nuts, pecans, almonds, crushed bits of Nutriberries, a quarter piece of grape, etc. Experiment to determine what treat the bird likes best and use this treat at no other time except when you are offering it, whether the bird is in his cage or on the playstand or cage, etc. Stop coaxing him to step up on your hand because if you keep doing that , he's gonna give you a serious bite. When training a pre owned bird, expect to get bitten.

 

So slow down. Be patient. Stop giving the bird an opportunity to bite you. Pay attention to his body language. A Grey, who is fluffed with his head down, will bite you if you don't respect his wishes. Many will slightly turn the head so they are looking at you with one eye. If the pupils are dilating in this position, back off or you will be bitten. As well, a Grey whose feathers are tight and he is leaning back will bite you if you persist.

 

Biting can become the first response instead of a last resort for a bird to rid himself of the insistence to do something he doesn't want to do or to remove the presence of the one who is trying to make him do something he doesn't want to you.

 

As caretakers, it is up to us to find a way to help a bird do what we want him to do. Insistence in the face of opposition, commanding tones and body language, pushing your hand into his stomach to make him step up will not inspire confidence that you are a loving gentle human who the bird can trust and love. It takes time for a bird to transfer his affections to a stranger. It will happen but you be the one to make the concessions.

 

Dave

[samansad]

Dave007 these are great advice and thank you for your help.

 

Well Alex never bites unless I bring my empty hand closed to him when he is out of cage. When he sees the treat he never tries to bite. He comes towards me and get his treat and eat it in front of me. Usually when he wants a treat and I am not offering anything he goes for a kiss, because he knows I will give him a treat after kisses. Even when I play with his beak he doesn't bite and he stay calm and allow me to touch his beak.

What amazed me is that yesterday he allowed my brother who does not play much with him, and not taking care of him, to touch his head. That was a sign for me that I was pushing too much since he trusted my brother more than me.

Also I see this strange reaction from him when I am giving him water or food. Sometime he doesn't like me changing his water or food, and he fluffs. But I give him a treat and he calm down then he allows me to change his bowl.

 

Again thanks for all your info and helps.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

So much advice, and all so different. Follow your heart and instinct. For me... I focused on stepup and step down, always being taller, but followed their lead. The one time I followed the advice that being taller, didn't matter, I got bit...We can all only advice, but in the end, you have to follow Alex's choices.If you don't like his choices, its up to you to give the alternative.

Always remember, you are the parent, and that is the goal for Alex to comprehend. That means.... I am here for you, you can trust me as long as it takes! I will always keep you safe, feed you, and provide you with the social enviroment for you to thrive...I've done that for Sophie. When thinking of a new pup or bird, I always think " how will it effect Sophie?" All my decisions are focused on her. I think my choices and decisions have helped Sophie to be the most amazing Grey I know Nancy

[samansad]

Being their parents sounds good. Indeed Greys feel being loved and they show love. Thank you

[reptoman]

I am brand new to birds in general and have had a grey only a month but I started early with target training. This involves a small stick and a clicker. I first introduced the clicker with simply a click and give a treat. Just an entire day of only that so our grey got to the point of looking for a treat when she heard the clicker. After the clicker is working by itself to get her looking for a treat, I present the small stick and say "target" and click when she touches her beak to the stick. Then present a treat. From this seemingly simple exercise you can then lead your bird with the target stick onto another perch, onto your hand, anywhere you want really. The stick takes focus off of your fingers and seems to be the simplest way to get your point across. Ours really appears to enjoy our training sessions too. Plenty of praise with each new milestone no matter how small and they love it. Thought I would throw this out there.

[samansad]

Thanks for your advice. Anyway Alex freaks out if you bring stick, or even peace of wood close to him or even if you hold it and go close to him. I don't know what happened in past to him, and I need to be so careful with things that scares him. I am working on building trust with him. He trusts my face and give kisses! He doesn't run away if I go close to him and tell him I want a kiss.

Alex last owner was not able to bring Alex on her hand! She said Alex walk on her laps but never trusted her hand. This sounds like Alex has a huge fear of hands and I need to build trust with him.

I had ringneck from a baby till it grow up, and seriously having a baby is so different from having a rescued bird that is 18 years old. 18 years means so much memory.