Tip!!! Warning!!!

[staceyj]

Hi Iv been reading a complete pet owners manual for a african grey and it says never feed your grey food from your mouth. do not let it play with your teeth. normal bacteria in parrots is primarily gram positive and it proposes no health threat to humans. however normal healthy flora in people, which is primarily gram negative, can make parrots sick! Do not even feed your parrot from the same spoon..... what do you all think xx

Edited May 28, 2012 by danmcq

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I'm not sure what manual you are reading, but normal flora in a birds mouth, is gram positive. So is it, in humans. Gram negative in humans, is in the colon. Feces contamination. It IS important, to keep birds out of your mouth, and not clean your teeth, as they like to do so. I also feel it is important to accept the regurg. They work hard to offer it to you. They are showing love. I wait all the time for Sophie's regurg. Sometimes it takes her 10 minutes to produce. I wait patiently. She offers me her regurg in my hand, I pretend to eat it, thank her like crazy. She is pleased.Regurg, is a form of affection, and I have NEVER dismissed it. It is a present to me, and I thank her everytime. You can train your bird to regurg in your hand. nancy

[Kimijean]

Never mind, I read it wrong, lol!! )

 

Kim

Edited May 28, 2012 by Kimijean

[Jayd]

Hi Iv been reading a complete pet owners manual for a african grey and it says never feed your grey food from your mouth. do not let it play with your teeth. normal bacteria in parrots is primarily gram positive and it proposes no health threat to humans. however normal healthy flora in people, which is primarily gram negative, can make parrots sick! Do not even feed your parrot from the same spoon..... what do you all think xx

 

Hi, here are some that can and can't be transmitted from Parrot to human, good thread, thanks....

Quote:Because our systems are gram opposite (one gram positive, one negative) most bacterial diseases and even most viruses can not pass from human to bird or vice versa. One exception that most everybody knows about is Salmonella, but it is very rare in birds. There are, as I found out to my chagrin, a few nasty bacteria that can “mutate” and cross from human to bird…I just happened to have a sinus infection with one of those and lost some birds to it. Un-Quote.http://www.quakerparrots.com/health/transmitted-diseases-parrots-humans/

To play it safe, "What happens in Your mouth, STAYS IN YOUR MOUTH" LOL

 

The first one is from The Center for Disease

 

http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/animals/birds.htm

http://www.quakerparrots.com/health/transmitted-diseases-parrots-humans/

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=desiease+parrots+can+give+to+humans&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

Edited May 28, 2012 by Jayd
SENIOR MOMENT

[Wingy]

Hi Iv been reading a complete pet owners manual for a african grey and it says never feed your grey food from your mouth. do not let it play with your teeth. normal bacteria in parrots is primarily gram positive and it proposes no health threat to humans. however normal healthy flora in people, which is primarily gram negative, can make parrots sick! Do not even feed your parrot from the same spoon..... what do you all think xx

 

My opinion is never kiss anyone but your husband/wife/intimate partner on the lips and even then both should brush their teeth first. I never offer my lips to a pet. I like them to much and don't want to get bit. I also do not believe in sharing utensils with our companion pets. Call me silly but I think its gross. Bird poops on the perch, steps in it, cleans its feet with its beak and is then going to eat off my spoon? YUCK! I have always just offered tid-bits of food either by hand, on a napkin or in a treat bowl. If its something soft like oatmeal I'll bring 2 spoons and 2 dishes, one for me and one for them.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

There IS no gram positive, verses gram negative! As a nurse, you can argue all you want! Understanding normal flora in different species, has been a serious interest of mine. It has always been an interest of mine, to understand " normal flora", between different species. My policy of " washing your hands", was created for a reason. Anyone that pretends to understand gram negative bacilli, truly knows nothing! Nancy

[Luvparrots]

Nancy, I am just starting to believe you like to fight with everyone who does not agree with YOU about things you THINK they need/want to know. Which really has nothing to do with what they asked or want to know. They are talking greys so are you an veterinarian assistance/nurse???? Just lighten up okay!! Be civil.

[danmcq]

Hi Iv been reading a complete pet owners manual for a african grey and it says never feed your grey food from your mouth. do not let it play with your teeth. normal bacteria in parrots is primarily gram positive and it proposes no health threat to humans. however normal healthy flora in people, which is primarily gram negative, can make parrots sick! Do not even feed your parrot from the same spoon..... what do you all think xx

 

I think the author of the book is spot-on. Did you have any other questions on weaning besides if the author was correct in their statements regarding to refrain from sharing items between human/parrot mouth/beak?

[Mistyparrot]

I think the author of the book is spot-on. Did you have any other questions on weaning besides if the author was correct in their statements regarding to refrain from sharing items between human/parrot mouth/beak?

 

Hi Dan. I think Stacyj made a typo in her title. I suspect she intended to write "Warning!!!"

 

Steve n Misty

[danmcq]

Thanks Steve!

 

OK, lets just put this to bed. Both humans and parrots mouth/beaks are Gram Positive in a completely sterile case. However, eating most anything can introduce gram negative bacteria. Rather than stating any of my own thoughts on this, I will post an article by a certified veterinarian doctor:

 

Bacterial Issues in Pet Parrots

This was a question from a client. I felt that I should address the subject of bacteria in pet parrots, as there is a lot of confusion on interpretation of cultures in parrots.

Question:

 

My quaker recently died from a cause that left me shocked. My avian vet informed me that the cause of death is the most common for all pet birds and is one that is easily avoidable. It is E. coli infection, from the same E. coli that is indigenous to the human digestive system. How do birds get this infection? By our kissing and cuddling them. My quaker, Mr. Tzip, used to say: "I love you" while giving me birdie kisses and would steal carrots from my mouth. I had no idea he would pick up a fatal infection from this. I know we all love our birds but I also know that none of us would want to do anything harmful to them. That is why I am writing this letter.

Answer:

 

Please let me offer my condolences about the loss of you pet quaker parakeet. Losing a dear feathered friend is always a tragedy, and if you feel somehow responsible, it seems to make it so much worse.

Let me teach you and my readers about bacterial infections in birds and Escherichia coli, aka E. coli., specifically. That may, in some way, assuage your guilt. So, what exactly is E. coli? We hear that name tossed around a lot these days, often in relation to food borne outbreaks from contaminated food products, such as hamburger meat, unpasteurized apple juice or cider, salad, salami or unpasteurized milk.

 

 

E. coli is a Gram negative bacterium in the Enterobacteriaceae family. There are many harmless or even beneficial strains of E. coli that occur widely in nature. E. coli is the predominant non-pathogenic (non-disease-causing) facultative anaerobic (can live and multiply with or without the presence of oxygen) member of the human intestinal microflora. Some strains can cause disease of the gastrointestinal tract, urinary tract and central nervous system in humans. Interestingly, the intestinal tracts of almost all birds (including some parrot species, especially cockatoos and Eclectus) and mammals, including non-human primates and horses are colonized by E. coli. Birds, especially psittacines, are less dependent on E. coli and rely more on Gram positive gut bacteria. However, softbills, including finches, songbirds and jays, pigeons and doves, poultry, waterfowl, raptors and ratites all have a high incidence of normal Gram negative bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract, including many strains of E. coli. These bacteria usually live quite benignly in the GI tract of these animals and birds, with no untoward consequences.

 

 

E. coli can comprise up to 30% of the bacterial flora in some psittacines, and other species, including cockatiels and budgerigars, still have some E. coli, just lesser amounts.

However, some strains of E. coli are among the most common bacterial pathogens responsible for diarrheal diseases in humans, especially children and those with less-than-optimal immune systems. Many cases of infant diarrhea in developing countries are caused by pathogenic strains of E. coli that cause toxin formation or that invade and destroy bowel mucosa. One very serious strain goes by the serotype: O157:H7, which causes diarrhea, copious bloody discharge and no fever. This strain produces a toxin that affects the kidneys, and can result in acute renal failure, especially in infants. In humans, this strain is often associated with the ingestion of inadequately cooked hamburger meat.

 

E. coli can certainly be responsible for causing all sorts of infections in psittacine birds, and can even penetrate through the pores in egg-shells, resulting in dead-in-shell embryos or death of recently hatched chicks. E. coli is identified as one of the most common causes of infection of the oviduct and reproductive tract in parrots.

 

I think it is safe to say that E. coli is a quite common bacterial organism, found in human mouths (25% of the time, anyway), it is found in dog and cat feces, manure used to fertilize produce and flowers, and it is found in the gastrointestinal tract of many animals we interact with on a daily basis. MOST of the time, it is harmless, and causes no problems whatsoever. However, a pathogenic strain may find its way into produce from the grocery store that has not been thoroughly rinsed, so when it is fed to a bird, it may result in serious, life-threatening or even fatal disease. A dangerous strain, such as O157:H7 would likely cause a human to become ill, but many healthy adult humans exposed may be able to mount an effective immune response. This strain won't be commonly found in a healthy human mouth.

 

 

Any time E. coli is found on a culture from other than the intestinal tract of a bird, it should be considered pathogenic. E. coli has the ability to proliferate uncontrollably outside of its normal home territory of the GI tract. But, some strains of E. coli can also cause gastrointestinal disease and diarrhea, often dangerous and potentially fatal, if not identified and treated in time.

How is E. coli diagnosed? Most commonly, it will be isolated and cultured from the bird, and then the lab will perform antibiotic sensitivity tests, to ascertain which antibiotics are most likely to succeed in treating this infection. Support care, including kaolin and pectin or bismuth subsalicylate, fluid therapy, supplemental heat and nutrition are all important to help care for the bird. Other tests, including a DNA PCR for identifying these bacteria, and sophisticated assays involving biochemical reactions, can also be performed. It may be possible to get a basic idea if E. coli could be the culprit in some isolates by assessing which antibiotics the organism is susceptible to. Blood tests to measure blood chemistries and also to check the complete blood count, including white blood cell count and differential are often helpful in determining if an infection caused by bacteria is present. Specific antibiotic therapy can successfully eliminate the bacteria from a bird's system, however, the organisms can survive in dried droppings and contaminated dander for quite a long time. So, clean up and disinfection of the bird's environment is mandatory.

 

 

Bacterial cultures in birds should never be used solely as a diagnostic method. These tests must also be evaluated in light of the physical examination, history, diet and other tests, most importantly the CBC, especially the white blood cell count (WBC). If the WBC is within the normal range and the differential (the percentages of the different white blood cells) is normal, then the bacteria may be "just passing through" and not the primary source of the problem. It is very important that avian vets learn the subtle differences between the differentials of the different parrots, as some have the heterophil as the primary white blood cell, others have the lymphocyte as the primary white blood cell, and yet others often have about equal numbers of hets and lymphocytes.

 

So, bottom line... do I think that your actions caused the death of your bird? No. However, I wasn't there, I didn't examine or treat your bird. And I never recommend allowing a bird to take food from a human's mouth, or share silverware, because we do harbor potentially dangerous bacteria for pet birds. But, it doesn't sound like you are responsible for your bird acquiring a fatal E. coli infection, if that is what it died from. Just because an organism is cultured from a bird's cloaca, that doesn't unequivocally mean that is what killed it. Many organisms harmlessly pass through the GI tract of pet birds every day, causing little or no problem. I just want you to understand that there can be many causes of death of a pet bird, not always what appears to be the most obvious.

Copyright © 2009 Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P.

All Rights Reserved

ExoticPetVet.net

www.exoticpetvet.net

Edited May 28, 2012 by danmcq

[danmcq]

I would also like to add one more warning to this discussion. Humans and parrots can get some nasty bacterial infections sometime causing death from unwashed vegetables and fruits. Please ensure when feedings raw vegetables or fruits to your parrot, that you thoroughly wash them in a vinegar/water solution to remove/destory all bacterial contamination and any residual pesticides. Also, as Nancy preaches, wash your hands, especially after handling any raw meats or vegetables.

[Life is Greyt]

What vinegar/water ratio do you recommend???

[danmcq]

I use 1 cup of apple cider vinegar to each gallon of water. I slosh them around for 2 minutes, then rinse them thoroughly with water afterwards.

[brianlinkles]

This is one of the first things that my breeder told me. They said never allow a bird to put its beak in or around your mouth. Sometimes Dorothy sticks her beak on my lips and I freak out that something will happen to her. Never allow them to eat from what you have eaten, or use your utensils.

[staceyj]

Thank you all for your replys, ive been reading loads of great post with loads of good advice and i never came across the dangers of bacteria in a humans month, so i dint no of it wo true or not, so i thought id start this post and see all the great advice come in, as most of us say tho, its better to be safe then sorry.... xx

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

luvparrots...I am sorry. My passion, got the best of me. I mean no disrespect. I am quite familiar with positive staphlococcus, vs gram negative baccili. It is actually part of my specialty. I apologize for any antagonism I caused. Nancy