Think twice before feeding Soy Beans

[tarm]

I though many woudl find this article very informative. It just goes to show how things are forced on use even knowing for centuries the toxic effects. Something to consdier for both you and your birds.

 

Concerns Regarding Soybeans

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[Birdnut]

Thanks, Tim. Very interesting. I remember soy-based foods being touted as cancer preventative, particularly for women, and as an antidote for menopausal symptoms. I tried to eat them, but had to give up, as they caused severe gastric distress, exactly as this article mentions.

 

Also makes a very good case for sprouting ...

[Jayd]

Ouote: [Totally Organic's] SOY BEANS

There is more and more disturbing data found about soy beans and products. Soy beans in their natural state contain large quantities of natural toxins and there is data that soy is cumulatively toxic when fed to animals. For example, The PARROT SOCIETY NEW ZEALAND claims that soy products in bird food have caused such problems as immune system breakdown, failure of organs and multiplication of the birds' own benign bacteria. Unquote.

 

Jay

[danmcq]

Thanks for the article Tim!

 

One thing it certainly points out, are the dangers of feeding raw or undercooked soy beans to ourselves or our fids as damaging to health.

 

Please note that MANY raw beans - such as Anasazi, Black, Fava, Kidney, Lima, Navy, Pinto, and Soy - can cause toxicities when fed raw, causing digestive upsets for people and potentially for birds.

 

Some experts recommend that large beans should be cooked to make them safe and digestible. Others counter that soaking beans for 24 hours starts the germinating process and that soaking makes the beans safe and digestible.

 

For those who do not want to take any risks, it's best to cook large beans thoroughly before feeding to your birds. These beans are not recommended for general sprouting purposes. Certain uncooked dried beans contain enzyme inhibitors, are indigestible , and may cause visceral gout in birds. These enzyme inhibitors may prevent or decrease the utilization in the body of substances, such as trypsin and chymotrypsin, to produce nutritional deficiencies. enzyme

 

Beans that can interfere with proteolytic enzymes are lima, kidney and soybeans. Cooking these beans for at least 2 hours destroys these enzyme inhibitors. Other dried beans do not appear to contain these enzyme inhibitors or, if present, are in low concentrations. To be on the safe side, it's best to cook ALL varieties of beans.

 

There is a TON of information out there available for reading on this topic. It pays for all to read and heed all the data on each type.

[Birdnut]

I've noticed that just about every commercial bird pellet includes soybean meal as a primary ingredient, including some premium pellets like Harrisons, Zupreem Natural, etc. Do you think this is a problem in this form? I did note that the TOP (Totally Organic Pellets) pellets do not contain soybean meal.

[Jayd]

I've noticed that just about every commercial bird pellet includes soybean meal as a primary ingredient, including some premium pellets like Harrisons, Zupreem Natural, etc. Do you think this is a problem in this form? I did note that the TOP (Totally Organic Pellets) pellets do not contain soybean meal.

 

A loaded question!! Dan's reply reflects most all currant feelings, witch I also agree with, now why is this question loaded? There's no 100% scientific proof that it will harm our birds!!! Why, the time since this issue came up has been to short? No testing of parrots have been done? many reasons....Personal opinions is probably the largest, this is my reason I don't serve any of these beans to my fids, cooked or not, this doesn't mean I'm right...QUOTE: Dan,,It pays for all to read and heed all the data on each type. Unquote...

[tarm]

Consider how careful members here are about what they feed and give there FIDs. All the trouble and expense you go to ensuring your birds get the healthiest diet and best care. If I listed these kind of dangers as in the article or what I am typing below to some others food type such as an onion or garlic or "fill in the blank" I am sure no one would be even remotely thinking of feeding to there parrot. I see a number of foods not given and not recommended because they may be bad. If there is a chance of danger people tend to not give them to their parrots. Here you have a food that has tons of evidence on its dangers yet how many bird pellets contain large portions of it? At the very least should we not investigate exactly how soy beans are being processed as they go into our birds pellets. Is it ground up then soaked in a huge vat with all the other beans then heats and extruded? If so how long is the soak? How long and how high is the heat? Or you could simply not run the risk and make sure not to feed your bird soy. Why risk it? Do not forget soy beans are not indigenous plant to where any of our parrots come from. All I know after years of following the attempt at forcing soy down the throats of the population I nor any member of my family will ever knowingly eat any kind of soy product with exception of those fermintated. If they could they woudl be adding it to all food products but thankfully it has not been or will never likely be given GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) status. It actually needed that for its including in baby formula whihc it never received to this day from the FDA. Isn't it nice knowing that the major ingredient in what people are feeding some new borns is has not even been given a "generally recognized as safe" status There's a great one to run a Google search on that should tell you quite a bit about how much the FDA really looks out for the most helpless and pure among us ( our babies) Google Soy Baby Formula GRAS status

 

The issue with soy compared to most all other popular beans is that it actually take more than just cooking even soak and long boil times. While it has certainty been shown that it does significantly decrease the amounts of toxins in them what most people do not understand is just how much is in them in relation to how much are considered toxic given their cumulative nature when you look at serving size versus kg bdy wght. I will have to go digging but there have been numerous independent studies done that show the soy bean is quiet unique compared to most other main stream beans. One has to only look at its nutritional profile to see that is true. I prefer, when making statements to be able to quote more then one source but for times sake will stick with the one I referenced above and try to add links as I go.

 

 

Goto the last paragraph page 1 continued onto page two You will see this full text of this quote:

These"anti-nutrients" are not completely deactivated during ordinary cooking and can produce serious gastric distress, reduced protein digestion and chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake.

 

The rest gets even worse and this is all from the study of what is considered proper cooking of beans and what is meant by "normal cooking methods" in the article. The other cooking method they reference to make soy less toxic to acceptable levels is in this quote and others also referencing it

Fortunately they are deactivated

during the process of fermentation.

 

China did not even consider it food quality until the use of fermentation.

 

The soybean did not serve as a food until the discovery of fermentation techniques, sometime during the Chou Dynasty. Thus the first soy foods were fermented products like tempeh, natto, miso and shogu (soy or tamari sauce). At a later date, possibly in the 2nd century B.C., Chinese scientists discovered that a puree of cooked soybeans could be precipitated with calcium sulfate or magnesium sulfate (plaster of Paris or Epsom salts) to make a smooth pale curd - tofu or bean curd. The use of fermented and precipitated soy products soon spread

to other parts of the Orient, notably Japan and Indonesia.

 

It was not until it sales had huge economic effect and a growing populous that needed to be fed that it started allowing its use in many other ways. Still today its main use for human consumption is in fermented and precipitated products. Fermintation is the only process that makes them truly safe over the long term to have in a diet. Even the precipitated forum allows toxins to remain as seen here

Thus fermented products such as tempeh and miso provide nourishment that is easily assimilated, but the nutritional value of tofu and bean curd, both high in phytates, is questionable

 

As can be seen here even long term high heat cooking fails to make this bean safe not to mention thru the process makes the protein of little use.

The pureed solution is then heated to about 115 degrees Centigrade in a pressure cooker. This method destroys most (but not all) of the anti-nutrients but has the unhappy side effect of so denaturing the proteins that they become very difficult to digest and much reduced in effectiveness. The phytate content remains in soy milk to block the uptake of essential minerals.

 

Besides given the toxic nature long term of these chemicals I certainly would not be trusting how some companies may or may not be cooking them to ensure they have had the maximum amount of toxins removed. If they actually did other than taste what woudl be the point of eating it as most all its value nutritional has been destroyed. Vitamins are mostly destroyed and the protein no has little bio availability. Considering how sensitive it seems out birds are comapred to us humans when it comes to toxins and chemicals I would be very concerned with feeding soy beans as part of a regular diet.

 

Here is a definitive statement for those looking for some hope in soybeans other than ones made from its fermination.

Only Fermented Soy Products Are Safe

3 paragraph page 6 as the lead statement. That is a very definitive statement IMO.

 

Also sprouting does not good either as the sprouts are toxic even when cooked.

 

 

Now doesn't it make you think a bit about all those supposed perfectly formulated pellets that we were told were made up by the Avian nutritionists gods.

This info is not some discrete thing its well known. Take a quick look at a Google search: Soybean dangers and you will get all you need.

 

Here is info parrot specific site Dangers of Soy

 

Here is some of the info on the issues in New Zealand that was refereed to. Entire site dedicated to it and soy issues as a whole. http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/01introduction.htm

 

Most people believe if its on the shelve in the store or part of that hot parrot food it must be OK. After all the FDA is there to protect us right!?!

 

Take a look at this info here for a collective of how it SOY is treated given its huge profits great rotation crop and potential. They are trying everything they can do to get USA citizens to accept soy in every product they can get it into as its the gold standard for a super cheap food. To bad its toxic and most of the beneficial claims are at worst bogus and at best misrepresented. How is it that Soy has somehow been able to attain drug like effect claims certified by the FDA. By railroading it thru and disregarding the rules.

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

The best thing I have found to do is swap out soybeans in avian recipes for Lentils which when cooked have the highest protein content of any bean other than soy. Also Kidney beans is another many like to remove as well. It is almost nutritional identical to pinto beans without the negatives associated with kidney beans. Lentils, White Beans, Garbanzo beans combo ( do not have the ratio handy at this moment) but it does take more in total volume make a very good combo to replace a Soybean Kidney bean combo found in a number of recipes. As Garbanzo are popular Fava beans can be used instead with the other two for a close match as well. In which case its .5 cup of each of the three to = .5 cup of both soy and kidney. Or a 1:1 ratio for each bean but a 2:3 ratio total beans

It take a good amount of work to find replacements for various foods but be done if you do not mind the time spent going thru a database and making comparative spreadsheets to figure and match it all up. Its even harder when you want to stay with in a specific group such as beans.

[Birdnut]

Thanks, Tim. All very useful information. As you say, why take a chance on feeding something questionable at best, when there are other options?

 

I've been using lentils a lot for some time and am glad to hear it confirmed that they have a good protein content. I have been cooking a grain and rice mix and adding lentils and split peas to the mix. This is the "base" I have used to add other cooked or fresh veggies and fruit to. The lentils and peas are really convenient to use, since they cook right along with the grain in my rice cooker.

 

I am definitely going to take this information into consideration in choosing pellets to offer the birds. I have some of the TOPs pellets on order, and we'll see what they think of those.

 

I was discussing this issue with the proprietor of the bird store we deal with the other day, and she commented that these questions are a very good reason to feed fresh foods.

[GoDiego]

This is a really interesting topic, I have never had or given my children Soya due to hearing a lot of negative things about it. The number 1 that put me off giving it to my 2 boys and husband is that I had heard it can cause cancer in men. On the basis of this, I kind of dismissed it as a food item to give to Diego purely because I would not give it to anyone in the family. It's great to read up on this as what I had heard before I suppose was just hearsay rather then anything concrete

[tarm]

Not just cancer in men but the way that is caused. Soy have super high estrogenic compounds. They have been definitively proven to act very mush like estrogen. In women it can lead to the same things that estrogen do. Early development etc.. In men gynocimastyia sp? Which is formation of breast tissue in men. Sterility, lower testosterone, loss of sex drive. Fat accumulation. Enlarged prostate. It is actually worse now then ever as there are some many chemical compounds used that have these proprieties. Basically especially in youth it makes boys/men more feminine. body and facial hair etc.. Its a really big issue. Go on any weight lifting bodybuilding site and you will see they run from anything soy. I could go very in depth about eh hows and whys but its off topic for birds and likely very boring to most. Safe to say I will NEVER knowingly allow ANY member of my family to consume a soy based product with the exception of fermented ones such as soy sauce. Much like a few other things if it was not such a huge cheap food source it would likely be considered toxic and not be sold for human consumption. It sure would not be in baby formula. In fact its use there is a violation of FDA regs. It must be given GRAS status to be used as such. They did apply for this status and it was not granted by the FDA. Now what does that tell you? While big money talks knowingly endorsing the poisoning of infants is another. Yet they still turn a blind eye to it. Funny how it has been given drug like claims approval whihc also violated FDA regs. Push to say how good it is for you yet at the same time will not say its "generally recognized as safe". Allowing things like just a small amount included in any food can now carry a label "proven to reduce bad cholesterol". It could have 10lbs of pig lard loaded with trans fats but as long as it includes some soy protein it legally is allowed to carry that label. Talk about complete BS. Everything that gets done to allow people to try to make sure there food is pure the food giants bribe the FDA to corrupt the laws.

[danmcq]

In men gynocimastyia sp? Which is formation of breast tissue in men. Sterility, lower testosterone, loss of sex drive. Fat accumulation. Enlarged prostate.

 

Well, that one did it for me.

 

I appreciate all the information and comments you have made on this topic Tim.

 

I think the most important question you asked, as well as others is "If there is a doubt, why feed it to your parrot or family?".

 

Considering all of this information and weighing it against the pro's of Soy Beans and separated products produced. It is better to leave this out of all diets, as there are plenty of healthy beans and other vegetables etc. that we know has no risk what so ever and only benefits.

 

With that said, no more soy beans will be cooked or offered here. Altough it has been in very seldom and small quantities, which I believe causes no harm in my scenarion. Again, there is no reason to provide or use this bean at all. I will also strip Kidney beans from the list as well. They do require longer cooking times than the other beans we mix together and cook.

 

Again, thanks for starting and all that have contributed to this topic.

[georgi]

I noticed it says 'soya' in my pellets - is that the same as 'soy'?

[Jayd]

I noticed it says 'soya' in my pellets - is that the same as 'soy'?

 

Welcome and greetings.... Yes, same thing.......

[georgi]

Good to know - thanks!

[shanlung]

I almost feel embarrased in entering this thread.

 

By all the accounts posted such as,

 

Originally Posted by tarm

In men gynocimastyia sp? Which is formation of breast tissue in men. Sterility, lower testosterone, loss of sex drive. Fat accumulation. Enlarged prostate.

 

I should not have existed to write a reply.

 

Considering soy has been in the diet of Chinese over the last 3 thousand years, the cumulative impact on Chinese and other people such as Koreans and Japanese, we all should have faded away and dwindled to nothingness.

 

Yet, there might be 1200 millions of Chinese in the world. There might have been more, but Beijing restricted their Chinese to just one child. 130 million Japanese do exist too. And 75 million Koreas. Or 1400 million tofu and soya bean eaters in the world

 

Those researchers who wrote all those stuff must have a hard time explaining that.

 

I saw they all decided it must be because Chinese ferment tofu and abacabra! the Chinese saved themselves from extinction!

 

Fermented tofu and byproduct do exist. Largely as soya sauce. Soya sauce is just a sauce. Miso paste is a kind of 'condensed' soya sauce.

 

But those ferment soya is such a tiny part of the diet. But perhaps miracles do exist where those tiny amount of fermented soya went on to save the Chinese and other East Asiatic race from extinction and fading away.

 

Fermented soya also exist as fermented tofu. The other name for fermented tofu is 'Smelly tofu' or 'Stinking tofu'

 

Eating Smelly tofu is an acquired taste. I love eating Smell tofu as it is so delicious. The tofu is fermented to make it delicious and not because Chinese realised soya bean is poisonous and fermenting it takes away the poison.

 

The vast majority of Chinese hate smelly tofu with a vengence. They eat the regular unfermented tofu.

 

Westerners might like cheese. How many Westerners can stand blue cheese?

Blue cheese smell like roses in comparison to the Stinking tofu.

 

And why are there so few chinese who love Smelly tofu?

 

Surely, those who love poisonous unfermented tofu should have lost their sex drive and have lot less offsprings than those who ate the fermented smelly tofu?

 

Surely, the current Chinese race should be loving the smelly tofu if only smelly tofu allows them and their forefathers to procreate? Isnt that standard Darwin principle?

Or I gotten that wrong?

 

Its long known that unprocessed soy beans is poisonous.

 

The standard way is to soak and wash , soak and wash repeatedly soy beans before cooking.

 

This is what I have been urging since 2003 when I wrote on Tinkerbell Mash.

 

I do believe enough photos of Tinkerbell, Yingshiong , and Riamfada are available to see their state of health after all the years on Tinkerbell Mash.

 

 

I do not believe any commercial parrot pellets that use soy beans would do what I have done. A 3 days and 3 nights of soaking and washing of the soy before the cooking.

 

Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/109957.html

 

But what do commercial parrot pellets makers care?

 

Didnt they use stuff like Ethoxyquin , originally used to preserve rubber , BHT/BHA , petroleum products , Propylene Glycol, de-icing fluid for airplanes to enable long shelf life for their pellets?

 

So excuse me for writing.

 

I should not have existed together with the hundred generation of my ancestors because of the evil poisonous soya bean we have been eating over the last 2000 years and more.

 

Neither do 1,200 million chinese could have existed. Especially when most of them hate the Smelly Tofu.

 

I have not known of a single Japanese who love Smelly tofu.

 

Do continue on this worthy discussion as if I never came here to write.

 

 

Warmest regards

 

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9

Edited August 8, 2010 by shanlung

[Birdnut]

@Shanlung: Your post cracked me up. Thanks for sharing this alternative viewpoint. Certainly no one can say that your birds have not been in excellent health.

 

It sounds like you do agree that it is probably best to avoid the commercial products with soy, as surely they do not have the knowledge and have not taken the care to prepare the beans properly as you describe.

[shanlung]

@Shanlung: Your post cracked me up. Thanks for sharing this alternative viewpoint. Certainly no one can say that your birds have not been in excellent health.

 

It sounds like you do agree that it is probably best to avoid the commercial products with soy, as surely they do not have the knowledge and have not taken the care to prepare the beans properly as you describe.

 

 

But why do you need to worry about the commercial parrot food lack of preparation of their soya beans ?

 

Should not one be even more worried of the icky stuff that they used to have long shelf life?

Ethoxyquin , originally used to preserve rubber ?

Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) ?

Butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT)?

Propylene Glycol, de-icing fluid for airplanes?

 

While unprepared soya beans are bad, I am a lot more paranoid on the above!

 

Go make your own mash aka Tinkerbell Mash and you have no need for all the worries.

You then have more time to smell roses instead.

[Birdnut]

Go make your own mash aka Tinkerbell Mash and you have no need for all the worries.

You then have more time to smell roses instead.

 

Yes. I have started making and serving a similar mash. I would like to move away from feeding commercial foods and focus on fresh fruits and veggies, and home-prepared mash, with a few seeds and nuts as treats. So far, Moussa has been very willing to try whatever I offer him.

 

I think this is good advice for feeding people, as well!

 

(leaves and goes outside to smell roses.....)

[shanlung]

There was a recent attempt by a group in Hongkong to ban the sale of Stinking tofu.

That ban failed. Stinking tofu fans may not be that many, but all converts are die hard converts.

 

Just that you know, you need to bring blue cheese near your nose before you can smell the blue chess.

You can smell stinking tofu stall from across the road!

Never mind how many lanes that road is (6 lanes in Taipei if you want to ask but dare not ask)

 

Unkind wicked people of un-elevated taste swear stinking tofu can be smelled upwind of the stall.

 

Those writers of 'fermented' tofu have never been anywhere near a stinking tofu (fermented tofu) stall in China, or Hongkong or Taiwan.

Or even talked to any Chinese and if they eat fermented tofu before they wrote of fermented tofu/soya bean saving the chinese race.

[shanlung]

Folks here might think I exaggerate on how bad fermented tofu smelled like.

I love this dish with all my heart and I found I was mild in that description as knowing how delicious fermented tofu is the smell, at least in my nostril, is wonderful as the precursor of enjoying that in my mouth and soul.

 

I checked on the web and was fascinated by the description by others

 

http://www.sfweekly.com/2001-07-18/dining/the-sweet-stench-of-success/

 

How stinky could it be?

 

As it turned out, pretty stinky. It was a stink that could make other stinks recoil in horror, a stink so mean it could beat a man senseless, drink his whiskey, then run a marathon through manure in his best suit. It was so dense we could almost see it hovering over our table during the brief period we spent acquainting ourselves with stinking tofu.

 

 

and

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/faqs/stinkytofu.html

Stinky tofu (also known by its Chinese name, Chou Dofu), a fermented tofu dish which has a very strong acrid odor, is sometimes politely called "fragrant tofu". Its smell has been described as "baby poo," "hellacious" and "sharply foul". Tourists in Taiwan or Hong Kong who follow their nose have no trouble locating a stinky tofu stand � street hawkers who sell it have been fined for breaking air pollution laws. .

.

.

Like the most fermented European cheeses, stinky tofu makes an unforgettable impression; non-native eaters find it either exotically tasty or unbearably repugnant. Twice-fermented stinky tofu, chou doufu ru, makes even stinky tofu smell good. Even many native eaters can't stand the smell.

[judygram]

Well I love this discussion on soy and soy products and I really laughed at Shanlung's post about the "stinky tofu" no that will never pass my lips for I don't even like blue cheese but I find that soybeans are one of the main ingredients in Harrison's pellets and Josey has been eating them since she was just 4 months old. I will continue to give her the pellets for she seems to like them and I guess you have to take all this information with a grain of salt and make a decision but she does not get any other foods with soy products in them.

Thanks Tim and Shanlung for the information on soy and tofu, you learn something new every day.

[Jayd]

Shanlung, As a person I respect with aw, thank you for your always wonderful Threads and post, I read all that I can by you.. Forgive me, I do not favor Soy, and 99% of the packaged pet food's, my personal opinion only, with no disrespect to you. Please, never stop being you.....Jayd

[tarm]

Most Chinese and other mainland eastern countries at least what I know from long time friends actually eat very little soy that is not either fermented or precipitated processed. In fact looking at the actual figures that I went and found its something like 87% precipitated and 7-9% fermentation products that are consumed in China of soybeans and its products. Tofu and other precipitated products while still having some toxins (phytic acid mostly) have the second lowest amounts with fermented products having insignificant amounts at best. SO very little other soy products are consumed % wise. Many of the soy products are actually American creations trying to get soy into the main stream USA food market which it will never be. Soy burger, soy hot dogs, bacon etc . Given this there is no reason why Chinese or similar cultures would see horrible bad health of the mass populous specifically from soybean consumption. This is not some conspiracy theory type junk there is literally 1000s up on 1000s and paper written on the subject. Population growth can not be used as a indicator as very few people or nations reprodcu3e at rates they are capable of but as a conscious choice. and control. More that effects population growth is social economic conditions and specific cultures. Can you imagine the world if everyone treated reproduction say the way other animal species do? That woudl mean babies every 15-24 months from 14-35 age women. Now that the world has become so much more transient and mixed there is a considerable data that has shows people from countries that consume far less meat traditionally but receive the large majority of there protein from soy bean precipitated products and also consume other soy products that then immigrate to countries that have a mainly meat egg dairy source for there protein off direct offspring tend to be taller with more muscle etc.. While there is way to many variables its is know to be dietary and it is being thought to have to do with actual protein absorption versus amount consumed and better absorption of various vitamins and minerals. If you carefully look at the common diseases and health issue of various countries and cultures and remove effect medical care effects it comes done mostly to the effects of diet and lifestyle. Over all Chinese have been more health becasue of many other reasons. Some of it has to do with diet but more in not eating super highly processed foods such as fast foods etc... They tend to get many times the physical exercise as well. Things have been slowly changing though. But if you look back at what the major health issues were you can see a direct correlation between lower levels of some yet other levels of others comapred to western cultures. Do not forget that not until China discovered fermentation processes and precipitation processes soy beans were considered unfit for human consumption. If all it took was to boil them a bit longer do you not think they would have been used significantly given food shortages at different pints in history. THe reason for this is the fact that soybean has the highest phytate levels of any grain or legume that has been studied, and of the phytates in soy are highly resistant to normal phytate-reducing techniques such as long, slow cooking. As I said before there is tons of very technical data and I have to admit plenty of it goes over my head but I am not trying to debate or make anyone change there minds I am only offering up the info and facts on something I felt was specific to our group.

 

One other thing to consider: Currently 90% of all soybeans crops are genetically modified and even higher total % use chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

Edited August 10, 2010 by tarm

[shanlung]

judygram

 

 

Jayd,

 

I remain very good friends with folks that regularly clipped their birdies. It is not necessary to do the same thing and think the same way to be friends. That will be a boring world.

 

We will remain friends even if you run screaming and gagging away should we approach a fragrant tofu stall. During the time I was in Taiwan and Hongkong, never once could I get any of my expat friends to pop one piece into their mouth or even getting near one of those stall. They cross the road to walk on the other side.

 

I find it sad they never will experience one of the most tasty and yummy dish in the world.

 

Do resist the urge to run away and try just one tiny little piece should you come across those stalls. You will be a die hard convert after you experience that gastronomical delight.

 

Tarm,

 

I do not know of USA and the fetish there for soya burger or soya hotdogs . I guess thats part of Vegan mythology. I am a carnivore and love meat and to sink my teeth into those succulent meat dripping with juice. That said, one close friend of mine is a Jain where Vegans are considered as closer to being a carnivore.

 

Yet we are friends.

 

I am a carnivore as I have this aversion to hearing the tomatoes scream with pain when the knife cut into them or peas squealing for mercy when forked into the mouth.

 

 

Soaking, germinating, washing and soaking and washing and soaking removed much of the phytate.

 

I had been advocating this, and have been doing this in Tinkerbell Mash since I started in 2002 and not just on the soya beans.

 

Fermentation to soya was done to change and improve the taste. 2000 years ago, no one would have known what is a phytate even if that came marching down the street with a huge brass band.

 

As for that evil phytate, a lot of food stuff contains phytate, and not as if soy bean is the only evil one.

 

I am no expert. There are enough experts plaguing us with their thousands of papers.

 

In the early days when I stood almost alone in the parrot world publicly flying Tinkerbell, experts of all sizes and shapes came running along to declare what travesty of parrot caregiver I was to allow Tink to fly. That they are 'experts' were enough argument for them.

 

Even more 'experts' came to tar and feather me when I advocate taking your parrot out on harness and leash in the early days.

 

Allowing birdie to fly and to take them out safely in harness and leash is so routine nowadays.

 

The world financial meltdown were brought about by another bunch of 'experts' with even more PhDs and affiliations.

 

We the laymen all over the world are good for nothing and good only to bail them out.

 

I am a student but I do like to think I am a well informed student.

 

Extract From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid

 

Phytic acid (known as inositol hexakisphosphate (IP6), or phytate when in salt form)

 

Food................... [% minimum dry] [% maximum dry]

Sesame seeds flour .....5.36 .................5.36

Brazilnuts ................. 1.97 .................6.34

Almonds ................... 1.35 ................ 3.22

Tofu ........................ 1.46 ................ 2.90

Linseed...................... 2.15................ 2.78

Oat Meal .................... 0.89............... 2.40

Beans, pinto................ 2.38 ................2.38

Soy protein concentrate 1.24 ............... 2.17

Soybeans ....................1.00 ................2.22

Corn ...........................0.75 ................2.22

Peanuts ......................1.05 .................1.76

Wheat flour ................. 0.25 ................. 1.37

Wheat ........................ 0.39.................. 1.35

Soy beverage............... 1.24................... 1.24

Oat ........................... 0.42 ...................1.16

 

Do notice the tofu , or precipitated soya bean that those experts said removing the phytates have more of that then the beans.

 

Luckily I love the fermented stinky tofu.

 

I and all who feed our birdies with brazil & almond nuts have even more phytates that soya. Why is there a campaign against the phytates in soya beans and not a campaign against feeding of brazil and almond nuts?

 

Do we have to cook the brazil and almond nuts before we eat them or give them to the birdie?

 

Note food stables like corn and wheat. The phytate in them are just marginally less than in soya. But folks do eat hell of a lot more of corn and wheat than soya in burger or soya hotdog. Is the phytate in corn and wheat different from soya ?

 

 

I was thinking of taking a photo of my chest to show my breast look very normal. But I think the mods here would scream and kick me out for doing that.

 

I thought also my fondness for stinky tofu disqualifed my breasts to be shown either.

 

I know you wrote in good faith doing the best that you think you can for your birdies and for all other birdies.

 

I am doing the same too.

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

Edited August 10, 2010 by shanlung

[tarm]

Shanlung, '

 

 

What are you going around posting listed references for that go against what I am saying. Do you not know that's makes more work for me. HaHaHa. I will double check and look up numbers from some other sources. I use wiki to but there is also a ton of inaccurate info on there as well as anyone can post info. What you say in regards to tofu is directly contrary to what I have read. It lowers it significantly and far more than traditional long boiling of the beans. The specific issues with Phytic acid in soybeans is that they are not effected by traditional cooking nearly as much as all those other beans. Only thing I can think of is that maybe its after cooking that they are speaking of the highest amounts of phytic acid if the wiki ref is accurate. Not sure about the tofu and need to check that number specifically. When people write things very suttle changes in the way they word them can make you think one thing but in fact the meaning is a bit different. No matter either way I will post what I find in support or refute of your findings.

 

Thanks for pulling up that info.