To clip or not to clip?

[Birdnut]

Curtain ... beads ... what great ideas! I especially like the beads idea (since I'm an old hippy at heart).

[tarm]

Thanks. I did not think of the hanging beads. What I liked about the idea was it is quickly removable. It can be up most all the time and then can be taken down if you entertain. The way our house is the foyer is around the corner from the family room so it should not be to frightening as it woudl be out of site. We will see as I think I may try this out.

[Dave007]

Well, I agree with you and Birdnut. I had them in my first bachelor apt. They were multi colored. They were sorta nice to look at after coming home from a Led Zepplin concert. Even better were the colored lights I aimed at them. Birdnut, *Like, you know where I'm coming from?* Those were the days.

[Jayd]

Okay guys, one up on ya, Maggie was called "Sunshine Sky", I still have a long Beard and long Hair, [at least in the back] LOL...Our haunts were the "Golden Bear" in Huntington Beach Ca, and the "Prison of Societies" Newport Beach Ca, Maggie played 12 string and I played 6..Judy Collins, Bob Dylan were regulars. "Those were the days".

http://www.stockteam.com/hbpix18.html

Edited July 28, 2010 by Jayd

[Birdnut]

Dave, Jayd: LOL!

 

Here, it was the Armadillo.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armadillo_World_Headquarters

 

"The Armadillo caught on quickly with the hippie culture of Austin because admission was inexpensive and the hall tolerated marijuana use. Even though illicit drug use was flagrant, the Armadillo was never raided. Anecdotes suggest the police were worried about having to bust their fellow officers as well as local and state politicians."

[Jayd]

Lol...oh-yea....................................

[danmcq]

No comments on those days from me....... :confused::cool::cool::cool:

[Keywe]

Well I don't want to be the one that changes the hazy daze here...Just want to say that I guess I was a little bit on the defensive in the last posts... I appreciate all of the comments and one in particular came to mind about the children and "punting" or stepping on the birdie by accident...I had NEVER thought of that EVEN when I have almost done it myself. I've almost rolled over her with my office chair not knowing she was right under me. If she had been flighted, and I had come TOO close, she most likely would fly to safety. The biggest reason for her not being flighted now is because I do take her out a lot...I actually bought her the adventure cage but I haven't been able to get her warmed up to it yet. I'm thinking I may just get her used to it, and always use that when she's out... It's been about 6 months since I've had her clipped, and I may just see what happens and not do it... Thank you for all of your comments and posts...You all are a tight group of knowledgeable Parronts and I have learned so much on this forum...

[Jayd]

And we have learned a lot from you!!! Thank You...........................

[tarm]

I do not know much about your greys personality but is a aviator harness at all a possibility to work on getting her to accept? If that worked out then if you ever did choose to allow the flight feathers to grow out and not clip it could lead to allow outdoor flight time. I know all of this can be a bird to bird thing.

[Birdnut]

It seems there are always potential dangers, no matter what course you take. Just goes to show you can't afford to get careless and complacent, whether your bird is flighted or not. But it's important to allow them freedom of movement and opportunities to make choices as much as you can. It really is a balancing act!

[Lambert58]

Just adding my 2c: We don't clip. We have a very very large great room for them to fly in. When they're out of the cage we use a 2-door entry/exit through the garage religiously. I realize our situation is optimum, and not everyone can do that, so you have to balance your fid's safety into your decision, but if you can let them free-fly, that's, of course, the best option.

[Guest]

"On the brighter side, flighted parrots are more joyful and full of antics. I will definitely miss my Grey if I clip her wings. She will no longer a "real" Grey."

 

Sooooooo well said, dhorje! Reading the above sentence from your post gave me goosebumps.

[Guest]

Dave, Jayd: LOL!

 

Here, it was the Armadillo.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armadillo_World_Headquarters

 

"The Armadillo caught on quickly with the hippie culture of Austin because admission was inexpensive and the hall tolerated marijuana use. Even though illicit drug use was flagrant, the Armadillo was never raided. Anecdotes suggest the police were worried about having to bust their fellow officers as well as local and state politicians."

 

:::busts out laughing:::: I need glasses. I read this as "....Even though illicit drug use was FRAGRANT....." Jeez!

[Birdnut]

I imagine it was pretty "fragrant" as well ... lol!

 

If you ever see the "Austin City Limits" program on PBS, this was the nest from which it was hatched.

[venom]

just out of curiosity , how many owners on here own clipped birds ??

[Loki'sMinion]

just out of curiosity , how many owners on here own clipped birds ??

 

Most stay quiet about it Venom.

 

My indoor birds are clipped. My outdoor birds are fully flighted

[judygram]

just out of curiosity , how many owners on here own clipped birds ??

 

I used to clip Sunny, my sun conure but do not anymore, does that count!

[Luvparrots]

Both of my parrots were clipped when I got them. Neither are clipped now. The only problem I have is scheduling out-of-cage-time so my grey does not attack my canary who also loves his out-of-cage time.

[Jayd]

Except for Freddy, all our Fids are clipped.

[shanlung]

Much was said in an earlier thread in this forum on wing clipping

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?8152-Wing-clipping/page4

 

I thought I resurrect an old letter I wrote there in March 2007 as what I said then is valid even now

 

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

 

 

Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horozontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down.

Hi Dave,

 

In an ideal world, what you say above may be right.

 

The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me.

 

People clipped for a few key reasons.

 

1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts.

 

2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flyig grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days.

 

She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls.

 

Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develope their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there.

 

You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion.

 

If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall?

 

This is same as your choice for your bird.

 

3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away.

 

In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world.

But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line.

 

So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation?

 

Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time?

 

Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you?

 

People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did.

Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds.

 

On a different note Dave, I tried to log in to your old forum to let you and other friends there know about my last trip to be with Tink in Nov last year. If you did know, fine. If not, you might like to read this

 

Tinkerbell Interlude photoset and videos, and start of next chapter of life. Also as to why I am now here in Brisbane , down under.

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/65169.html

 

 

Shanlung

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

 

 

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It might be amusing to note that Riamfada who is with me now came to me as a rescue.

Her wing was clipped in the silliness that clipping her stopped her from flying away.

 

She obviously flew away from that previous owner, landed in a garden, found by this lady, who decided I was a far better caregiver to be given to.

 

This is Riamfada in some of her outings with me now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2010 by shanlung

[danmcq]

Hi Shanlung, it's great to see you post again!!!

 

I always enjoy reading your blogs, thoughts and viewing your photos. They are truly inspirational and based upon years worth of experience.

 

There are many new members here that I am sure have never read or viewed your massive libraries and seen your photos or watched you videos. I am certain this will be a real treat for them all.

[shanlung]

danmcq & friends,

 

Thank you.

 

For those who read above and had not known of me before, perhaps getting into my thread here might be interesting to you. I wrote of how you can live with a flighted parrot at home.

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?5189-Tinkerbell-love-of-a-flying-CAG-in-Taiwan

 

While my letter above is still current with this topic of clip or not clip, URLs talked of a different chapter of my life then in Brisbane.

 

I am now in Sultanate of Oman, even if that will end soon.

 

I thought I place here a reply I made a short while ago elsewhere in another forum for folks who had not known of me. I hope you find that entertaining, and with much more recent URLs.

 

 

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All that I do is to extend to them the courtesy and the dignity due to fellow sentients of equal standing, be they birds or beasts.

 

No sane person can go for walks with a parrot and followed by 2 cats around neighbourhood and in wadis.

 

Riamfada and kitties

 

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/100658.html

 

 

 

Including into the ocean.

 

Last time to beach for Dommie // Cats at home //3 days 2 nights at Turtle Beach Resort

 

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/104321.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

More of how that was done with the cats here

 

Last Footfall in Nepal// Sharon & kitty advice // Riamfada over weekend 18-19 March

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/113583.html

 

 

Greys are not the best candidate to take outdoors for free flights. For that matter, no parrots are good candidates to do any free flight with.

I strongly urged people here not to do free flights with any kind of parrot as

FREE FLIGHT IS LIFE AND DEATH PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF UNLESS YOU DO KNOW.

NEVER EVER FREE FLY WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AS THIS CAN LEAD TO LOSS AND DEATH OF YOUR BIRD.

 

Riamfada was a wild caught, and likely to be 4-5 years old when she came into my care in Oct 2008. She was very bitey , refused to step up and a frightened ball of grey.

She flew to me on cue within a couple of days. I never ever starve my birds and creatures or use that euphemism of 'weight management' as excuse.

 

Riamfada willingly do this for me, as an equal to another equal.

 

Idiot kitties // Riamfada free flights at home and outside villa

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/109794.html

 

 

 

Chile // Riamfada free flights at the edge of Rub Al Khali

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/112019.html

 

 

 

 

There are folks that advocate taking baby parrots from their parents with the idea of 'taming' them that way.

 

I MUST URGE THAT SHOULD NEVER BE DONE.

 

Who are we to deprived the fledglings of the time with their parents and deprived them of knowing that they are parrots?

To gain some imaginary advantage? To forcefully attempt that artificial imprinting into their mind at early stage?

 

Are we that weak in our self confidence that we must resort to forcefully taking parrot babies from their own parronts?

 

Because self styled 'experts' advise you to do so?

 

I am just an amateur with quaint moral values, and a student and will always remain a student.

 

When the buying stop, the selling of unweaned baby birds will stop too.

 

Yingshiong my shama above was wild caught at 3 years old and given to me at 5 years old.

Riamfada is a wildcaught as can be seen by her open quarantine ring.

 

I never trained them. Starting withTinkerbell, and then Yingshiong, and now Riamfada,

THEY WERE THE TRAINERS. I AM THEIR TRAINEE.

 

I hope you all will enjoy the photos, and the stories behind the photos.

 

DO NOT DO FREE FLIGHTS JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE THOSE PHOTOS, JUST AS YOU DO NOT DO SKY DIVING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU SEEN PHOTOS OF PEOPLE DOING THAT.

 

If you have cats , and your cats follow you into the ocean, then perhaps you can also do free flights with your parrots too.

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9

[Dave007]

Hi Shanlung

Nice to see you again. Boy oh boy, you are one traveling guy. I can't keep up with you. Maybe I'll buy another motorcycle and join you. Gotta get the passport first.:cool: Well, as you know, Smokey was a complete harness success and for the last 1 1/2 year I've been working with my TAG Tee and it's been coming along pretty well. He never stops. He never wants to come back in the house. I try to bring him in and he nips me constantly cause he wants to stay out with that harness. A friend of mine was thinking about that harness too. He got his wife to make him one.

Guess what? Concerning Tee, I finally got real brave and finally made a lighter weight harness because Tee is smaller than Smokey. I used the directions you originally sent me a couple of years ago for Smokey except I refined it and it worked out pretty well.

So anyway, make sure you take care of yourself because I look at your pics and I see some old age wrinkles creeping in. It's the wear and tear of world wide traveling.

By the way, Gary from the old board wanted to say hello if I spoke to you again.

Dave

Edited July 31, 2010 by Dave007

[Tweedle]

What extraordinary pictures, and an extraordinary individual. Thankyou so much for posting these wonderful pictures of your beautiful teacher, I'm very much looking forward to reading your pages.