shanlung

Dont you think I have enough of greys after Tinkerbell and Riamfada? and you have read I did not even want Riamfada in the first place, hoping that lady will keep Riam in which case I would have given her all the help she needed. But it was fated Riam was given into my care, and I could not walk away. The only hookbill that I will take will be one that truly needed me and I cannot walk away from. That will exclude any normal birdie that others can and will take care of. That being said, Riam did suddenly pop into my life, so my predictions of future is not very good. I also have to say birds in my house will not be in a forever home. I am fated like the Flying Dutchman to roam about and not have a home port. I can only promise that during their times with me, my beasties and birdies will not lack for anything to live a fulfilling life when with me. And they will have the best of next homes. What is a forever home in these very troubled times we all are in? Jobs all that secured? and value of money remain that same? Health never failing? Heck! Our precious planet will not even remain the same as we have seen from the fiasco starting at Kyoto and continuing on to Durban. See my latest write up if you have not done that. Shanlung foraging for birdies // Jackie and clicker training // climate change http://shanlung.livejournal.com/134514.html Or on second thoughts, just enjoy the first two parts and not see the last part. Better to keep on the blinkers and rose tinted glasses to better live and enjoy life and smelling roses as if tomorrow will always be good.

Good for you and your bird. I am actually very neutral on clipping. Drawing the line only where the idea that clipping of wings meant the bird will never be able to fly away. As in the first letter here, that was how Riamfada came into my care. I have another reason to be very neutral on clipping. I might be in extreme circumstances where I might have no choice but to take away that ability to fly readily from a bird. It is very unlikely I will ever get a normal healthy grey again. If ever another grey enter my life, it probably be a rescued given to my care with no other hope left to that birdie. Should a grey be given to my care and is blind, I might have to clip the wings to take away flight. That would be after a long period in safe surroundings to see if flight can be allowed to him/her. If I feel it will not be safe for that grey to be fully flighted, then sadly, I will clip. I also bear in mind that blind people do walk, do run and even ride on bicycles. And I do know of many blind birds allowed full feathers and flying. But not all will be the same. So that scissors will remain very far away, but still there should I need them. I have read of a grey, under a truly world famed grey behavior lady whom I have loads of respect, but sadly that grey was psychotic and flew into rage on no provocations and doing flying lunges on everyone except her. Should such a case confront me, and after trying my best and assessing no other way to go, I will clip. With that in the back of my mind, I cannot but remain very neutral in this issue. Other than to stress clipping will not mean your birdie cannot fly away. And without knowledge of flight and with clipped wings, the chances of getting that birdie back alive, is very very slim. I have many friends, very good friends with clipped birdies. They gave a very good life to their birdies. They have kids and kid friends running in and out of the house all the time. Having fully flighted birdies have requirements which must be met. Circumstances were not right for them to live with a fully flighted bird. Perhaps that might change in the future and perhaps they might change their mind later. I do not look down on them, and neither do I look up at them. That we do things differently meant nothing to me other than we do things differently. Seeing the costs of suicide bombers of one kind and the other to press folks that they must do things their way, we all should agree that we can do things differently and still remain friends and appreciate the differentness in all of us. The world will be a boring place if the only flower is the rose. And I am happy you are different from me. I do not think I can stand another exactly like me.

Rest of you who enjoyed what I wrote and especially Mistyparrot who defended me, Thank you. Much of the attack on me was based on psuedo science.Making me to be something I never claimed as that I wrote scientifically and to be demonished as anecdoctal, and by implications everything he chose to say is scientifcally based. What he liked became facts, what he did not like, a ton of manure of his chosing will be dumped on top. And using of straw dogs. By claiming for me what I never claimed for myself, thereby setting up a straw dog, then go to beat and tear that straw dog he created to pieces, to prove he was so much more superior. Chinese knew of straw dogs 3 thousand years ago and that was written into the Taoist bible Tao Te Ching over 3 thousand years back. To see a westerner crafting that on me to use on me is laughable, and pathetic. As if I do not know of that kind of cheapest of cheap arguments. If he want to clip, just go and clip. No need for any kind of scientific rigmarole and clownish contortionistic exhibition of his own stupidity and his own confessing what I wrote was too long and too difficult to be understood. But with him safely in my ignore list, I never ever see whatever he will write. Back to what I rather want to talk about. luvparrot, you know taking my parrot out for regular neighbourhood walks had many motives. Here were some of those. 1. We all enjoyed those walks, without enjoyment, that could never be done on sustained basis. 2. To let the parrot see and know and be familiar with the entire neighbourhood, to know how to get back should Murphy called. 3. To fly the flag with neighbours, so they know Tinkerbell or Riamfada was mine and be very friendly with them all and especially their kids, also in case Murphy called. Luckily for above in free flights in neighbourhood for both Tinkerbell or Riamfada, goodwill of neighbours never had to be called on. But it will be good to know that that is there. I hear you loud and clear of the microchipping of bird which I agree is a good idea especially if as you said legal return is required in the States. I do not live in the States, and I think as the case of many other folks here. Greys can caused bond to be formed. By the time, a grey is taken to the vet, that bond might be so big that it might be very very difficult for the finder to want to seek the owner and return the bird. The finder might not even want the microchip to be searched for. Which was why I rather have that thingy tied to Riamfada's harness with my name and telephone in case of accidents. See how this came about in 'Reflections on Riamfada at edge of the Empty Quarter and some rants ' http://shanlung.livejournal.com/112576.html I think the chance of recovery will diminished exponentially with time, and the best time for that return should be immediately on finding of that bird. You relied on the law. I rather rely on getting the birdie back immediately before attachment and that bond has the time to form in the first place That route remained anecdotal, as with all my free flights with Riamfada, she always came back to me and therefore, not tested. I wrote on some of those free flights in detail. But I had done many many other free flights that were mentioned only in the passing or not even mentioned at all.

carlsjr, Why not you do as you please and say that it is your decision. No one can fault you for that or say you do not have any right to do as you decide. Why do you have to make me out as an EXPERT when I made it very clear here and in many of my writings that I am but a student. If you need experts, you can find the experts of your choosing. Anything I wrote and not attributed to another by name is my opinion. Never have I tried to present that as scientific proof. It is you who decide, to your satisfaction, that I tried to present that as scientific proof. Or is it I cannot make any opinions at all? and only EXPERTS can make opinions? Experts are everywhere, and gurus as well , casting pearls before their fascinated followers. You showed clearly you found them. Then you need only to follow them. Why do you need to cast aspersions against anyone who say anything that contradict them? You must have the faith in the experts that you choose. Why do you even need to ask that original question that caused this thread to be formed? My apologies if you meant that only as a rhetorical question. To ensure I never ever will misunderstand you anymore, I placed you into my ignore list. I am just a student asking if the Emperor wear cloths in the first place. Perhaps that Emperor did to your heart's content. Then you should go and admire those cloths. Do not bother with my anecdotal statements as surely the test of time will show that clarity of truths and facts from those that you decide worth following and listening to. Even better still is that you do not pay the price. The cost of those truths and facts from your chosen experts will fall on the bird. Why ask me all those follow up questions? Just idle curioisity? If you are truly interested in the answers, go to that forum and read for yourself. Ask those other writers if you need more details. Why bother with me? Get them yourself from the horse mouth directly. I said enough on this thread. I think I rather go smell roses, play chess , be with my Jackie and many other gainful things.

Gwen, Thank you. aslterp59, What I write in this thread is just but the tip of the tip of the iceberg. A summary of my life with Tinkerbell until I had to leave her is here. And that can be a good guide to you if you want to think about living with the flighted grey, and how to go about that safely. URL to Summary of Tinkerbell and Guide to the training and harness details here If you like the photos, just go to my signature and click on that webpage. Every time you refresh, different photos will be shown to give an idea of my life with my birdies and beasties. What you have seen in the Livejournal is just a small tiny selection of photos from the Flickr folders normally embedded in that livejournal entry. My writings span about ten years and not four years. So if you have insomnia, you might be in luck. I don't know if I can agree with you that I do not have Tinkerbell even though she is not with me in the same country. For all I know, the time I spend with her yearly might be as much as many people really spend with their parrot even though they lived together. Many people do not barely give their birdies a glance and interactions consisted almost entirely of giving food and cleaning the cage. I was asked in my last visit to Tinkerbell how long had I been with her. I found I could not really answer them. I do not think any meaningful answer can be made. Tink was with me from 2002 to 2004. Since then, you all knew I made visits back ranging from a week to a month. I explained all that to them. From shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 -Being with her Part 1 // 30th June - 2 July 2011 shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 -Being with her Part 2 // 3 July -7 July 2011 I gave up Tinkerbell in 2004 after 3 glorious years with her from 2002-2004 recorded and archived in http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/indexbegin.html The record of my painful handover of Tink to Yu was Tinkerbell - The last day of this chapter http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/wtink12lastday.htm Tink remained in my heart and was visited by me in June 2005 in Tinkerbell Revisited http://shanlung.livejournal.com/2005/06/ In November 2006, I saw her again in Tinkerbell Interlude http://shanlung.livejournal.com/2006/11/ In Dec 2007, another visit to Tinkerbell with my wife where I thought I lost her in BanTienYen Lost & found - Bantienyen http://shanlung.livejournal.com/2008/01/ Then in April 2008, another visit to Tinkerbell with my wife Yingshiong & Tinkerbell - A good closure http://shanlung.livejournal.com/2008/04/ The last visit to Tink was made with my wife in Mar 2009 Tinkerbell - Rhapsody in Spring 2009 http://shanlung.livejournal.com/97545.html Reflections on Tinkerbell //Smelling roses on mountains // Attack on my wife http://shanlung.livejournal.com/97874.html That was over 2 years ago since I last saw her. I was now back in Chiayi alone as my wife started on her job a few months ago and not able to take leave as yet. I guessed that was about the strangest thing that they have heard. Elder Chan nodded and said nothing back when I asked him how to count how long I have known and been with Tinkerbell.

Any topic brought up whether from outside or within a thread can be a thread. My apologies for mentioning you by name in this thread and that will not happen again, ever. In saying that I gave anecdotal evidence, then what is it that scientifically approved of by you? Do give me the scientific evidence that you have that made what I said to be only anecdotal. After all, as far as I know. folks that kept greys or parrots have only a few or even one parrot. If that made what they say to be anecdotal, then will the words from breeders of parrots with hundreds make what they say even more scientific? And then why not managers of poultry farms who might bred a few hundred thousands of birdies. Will then those managers of poultry farms be guru emeritus with impeccable scientific credentials to expound themselves? Then go to them by all means and ignore all that I say as merely anecdotal and not worthy of your time to read. If folks feel heart and mind is of no place in this modern scientific world, then obviously, my thoughts should be discarded as trying to prove heart and mind scientifcally, I leave that to those inclined on that path. I have seen enough of bird alerts, but I guess that's only anecdotal. People can even write to John Hayward of Parrots Lost and Found Register UK http://www.parrotmag.com/lost-and-found-register and hear his anecdotal views that more clipped birds than flighted birds are on his register. In that forum and that thread I was on in ,Wing-Clipping: a poll, please join in!, which I send my postings here from, that went to 224 postings on 12 pages. After my two postings above, some one decided to go through those 224 postings on their own anecdotal accounts and this was his summary on 8 Dec 2011. Results: Hi guys, I've tallied up the results from the start of the thread, it is fairly rough but the general idea is there. The results are actually quite interesting. Hope everyone agrees with the figures. Number of birds: Clipped: 58 Un-clipped: 255 (some are aviary birds) Injured whilst clipped: 15 (main reason, keel damage and broken legs) Injured whilst un-clipped: 16 (main reason, collision with windows and walls, a few chip pan and fire incidents) Escaped whilst clipped: 2 (1 injured, 1 killed by cat) Escaped whilst un-clipped: 8 (most recovered unharmed) Feather-pluck whilst clipped: 10 Feather-pluck whilst un-clipped: 10 Feather pluck seems to be more due to conditions kept and behavioural problems than clipping. Hope this helps! If any one wishes to try and get better results please feel free. Needless to say, an entity there decided clipping and not clipping gave the same results for feather plucking as she saw either way, 10 plucked giving rational and blessing to her already predetermined desire to clip. Yes, she later went on to say her maths is very good. I guess seeing 10 and 10 and recognising those numbers are identical made her maths to be good. She claimed to be accountant as well. I hoped she used a nick because if I happened to be the boss and see her mathematical skills, she will be doing accounting anywhere but in my company. It seemed those determined to clip will keep doing so based on the maths that they want to use or scientific evidence that they deemed more scientific then mere anecdotal conjectures. I then added. And not to forget, with flighted birdies very much the majority, 911 bird alerts consist largely of clipped birds. As reported in the survey summary, it seemed that flighted birds were recovered unharmed. Which meant that never went to the HELP! MY BIRD FLEW AWAY and consisted largely of clipped birds and likely never recovered . As I said before, clipped birds that flew flew away with a death warrant tied to their clipped wings. And yet, folks with clipped birds who dont know how to fly will keep urging others to clip their birds to prevent birds from flying off when it is their own clipped birds that flew off. I then I said enough on this. I have said before this must remain the choice of the individual. After all, why should we care for the choice of the birds themselves? What say have the birds on this matter? After all, whatever the bird say, that cannot be scientific enough.

Another posting I did in a couple of forums a short while ago in line with clipping. I also have to add that I am actually very neutral as to clipping or not clipping. I only draw the line against that incredibly silly fantasy that clipping will keep you birdie safe as your birdie will then not fly away. Everything have its pros and cons. Nothing ever is infallible. Weigh and weigh and think and think from all angles. Then you decide, in the context of your life and the environment that you can reasonably provide, at least in the NOW that you are in. Then go and do the best for your birdie and by your birdie, regardless of what anyone else will say. After all, you , having weighed everything that you can, is the person that must decide the best for your situation and circumstances. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I thought I will post another old piece I wrote a few years back. Not to do with total free flight outside. Heck! In what I posted on how to do free flight outside, I hope that put the scare in those that read not to try that at all. Leave that to the slightly and/or greatly deranged idiots like yours truly here. But allowing them to fly at home is a different matter entirely. After all, it is not the flying that birdies get onto birdie911. Especially when the bulk of the birdie flyoffs in birdie 911 have their wings clipped in the first place. Makes me wonder why folks still hope to the belief that clipping of wings solved all their problems when in reality, many more clipped birdies fly away then fully flighted birdies. And as what I said in in the poll Do you have full flight birds, What chance have clipped birds got? Never knowing how to fly with control? Barely enough feathers to fly and no feathers for flight control? Clipped birds lost outdoors will in almost all likelihood escaped with a death warrant tied to their clipped wings. Do remember that whenever you reached for that scissors. And hopefully what I wrote might persuade them to return the gift of flight back to their birdies. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Written in about end March 2007 More thoughts on wing clipping shanlung: More thoughts on wing clipping The extract aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Dave wrote: Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horizontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down. Hi Dave, In an ideal world, what you say above may be right. The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me. People clipped for a few key reasons. 1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts. 2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flyig grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days. She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls. Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develop their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there but not that much. You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion. If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall? This is same as your choice for your bird. 3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away. In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world. But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line. So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation? Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time? Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you? People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did. Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I thought I copy into here a posting I did elsewhere in a poll on whether to clip or not clip aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa This is a most interesting thread. From the polls, the majority of the birdies are kept flighted. As also seen in similar polls in other birdie forums. Below is a letter I wrote in another forum just a few days ago which I think has its place in this thread, especially in the poll which started this thread. That was for a birdie Echo who flew away, and with a happy ending of being rescued. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa The strange part is that the BULK of escaping birdies were birdies with clipped wings , not fully flighted birdies. Even more strange is that more birdies are kept fully flighted now, at least from the polls I seen. Surely, shouldn't it be the other way? That more birdies that are fully flighted be lost instead of birdies that are clipped forming the bulk of lost birdies? It is not the scissors that prevent unwanted escapees. More often than not, that lead to undeserved complacency. Consider how my saga with Riamfada started. She was clipped, and assymetrically clipped on just one wing. A clipping designed to cause imbalance to birdie and about the worse of clipping. She flew away and landed in a garden with very high walls around it to be rescued by a lady. She looked and asked around the entire neighbourhood. She was a very determined lady walking about the neighbourhood to find whose grey it was. So it was likely Riamfada flew into her garden from a much further place. She then gave her to my care. So not only Riam flew far away with clipped wings, but flew high enough to get over a high wall. I guess as Riam was a wild caught, she retained enough of her flying knowledge to overcome those clipping done on her. And as birdies have clipped wings, that would make it almost impossible for them to fly down. Flying down is a lot lot lot more difficult than flying up. And as clipped birds probably had never been allowed to fly at all, they do not know how to turn and fly in any controlled way by them. Flying up is about all they can do. That is the reality. Not what most folks love to think. But strangely, folks who clipped birdies and never known of them flying seemed to know so much more about flighted birdies than I do. And so fond of asking one and all to reach for those scissors to crunch off those feathers on the wings. Their one infallible solution to any and all problems. It is ok for folks. But its the lost birdies that will pay the price. What chance have they got? Never knowing how to fly with control? Barely enough feathers to fly and no feathers for flight control? Clipped birds lost outdoors will in almost all likelihood escaped with a death warrant tied to their clipped wings. Do remember that whenever you reached for that scissors. If Echo was clipped, instead of having all her feathers, Echo would not have been back and likely to have died instead. Flighted birds, and birds knowing flight, lost outdoors will survive a lot better than birds clipped. It is the knowledge and care and attention to details that keep your birdie safe with you. Nothing else. Think about it. Go and clip and hope you beat the odds. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and a follow up letter from me which hopefully can help those with escaped birdies. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Needless to say, I am so happy you got Echo back! I will not, and never will, wish even the worse villian on Earth be him Hitler or Osama or my ex mother in law , that they lost a birdie, especially a grey. The pain and anguish is so incredible and impossible to bear that it defied words and description. Now that you got Echo back, can you ever recall the pain and depth of despair that you had when you first saw Echo winging off? Its just not possible now. That pain was too great and utterly impossible for you to replicate in your heart now with Echo's return. As for Echo on top of tree and not flying down to you, I believe that you missed what I wrote on getting a lost birdie back. If you had, you might have saved yourself quite a bit of pain and gotten Echo back earlier. It is too long and too detailed to copy and paste here. You should read it, as you never know if you ever need it again. After all, Murphy is everywhere. Search & recovery of your lost birdie shanlung: Angkor Wat & stuff// Wife to say hi to Domdom and Riamfada// Search & recovery of your lost birdie aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mike, the Daddie of Echo, agreed if he read that , and the 45 degree rule, he probably would have gotten Echo back a lot earlier instead of begging Echo directly under him on the branch. But I do understand folks with a birdie up on a tree find it more gratifying to grovel and beg directly under the birdie to fly back, not realising that only a birdie highly trained and experienced in flight can do a flight directly downwards.

I wrote of having lost my grey 3 times. Twice was Tinkerbell as you have read. The last was at BanTienYen at end 2007 Read what happened in Bantienyen in 2007/2008 Tinkerbell at BanTienYen The Agony http://shanlung.livejournal.com/71760.html Tinkerbell - Rescue at Bantienyen http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73198.html Tinkerbell - Bantienyen In Retrospect http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73232.html Once was Riamfada. Which should not have happened with hindsight. But you agree hindsight is useless together with the 'ifs' and the 'buts'. Beware that Murphy is always around. If not him himself, his minions are everywhere. Jebel Akhbar with Kat //Seifa Al Sheik - the Great Escape and recovery http://shanlung.livejournal.com/103005.html Replies & thoughts of Seifa Great Escape // Cyrus Oriole // An iftar meal http://shanlung.livejournal.com/103233.html Mash Batch 6 // Flying in Shangrila Muscat // Seifa Al Sheikh Revisited http://shanlung.livejournal.com/103613.html

Jeffnok, Thank you. Perhaps you might enjoy this too. A combination of 2 in one. Not only you read of Tinkerbell (which is why this is here) , but also of another bird. Cutting and chopping what I chose to write in my Livejournal just for this forum is too much for me to handle as often I do not even know what I would be writting when I sit in front of each entry. Tinkerbell on motorbike // Jackie, the Greater Indian Hill Mynah and his treats http://shanlung.livejournal.com/134052.html

Joybird, Thank you. Malikah, Try to accept we live in the real world and not in the imaginary ideal world. More strange things happen in the real world. And where drama queens are concerned, logic and understanding do not play any part in their mind when they want to stand on a soapbox to declare to the world at large whatever they want to declare. I did not help very much as I write very raw. On stuff that happened, without thinking too much of people who might read. I wrote what happened, I do not write for audience. In that particular episode, I got many letters in private that they would not have dared to write that they smacked their doggie/kittie. If you read on, you knew peace was made with Sieben, and he is on the road to living with any birdie in my life the way you seen of all my kitties. Oberon - Plans are like wishes // Turning Sieben into a lap cat // I Should be sadistic to Ivan? http://shanlung.livejournal.com/131441.html Mirror mirror on the wall // Oberon - His future // Kitties Sieben & Ivan http://shanlung.livejournal.com/131631.html Just as before in talks of nutrition, a well knowned USA breeder of greys and Amazons wrote privately to me about 8 years ago he felt his success in breeding came from feeding them with advocados. He told me he dared not even breath of that in public as folks would drop a ton of bricks in him for his cruelty. And wild horses will not drag his name from me. I also do take stand, and sometimes on controversial issues. Such as recently on the campaign to totally ban wild caughts. Just last night I was going through a very depressing list of birds that went extinct and going extinct. The vast bulk of those extinction did not come from captures for pet trade. The ivory billed woodpecker and so many others that are extinct were never captured for pet trade.The vast bulk came destruction of their habitat, from the introduction of other beasties into their environment. From capture for food such as passenger pigeons and great auks. Extinction came from us. Kneejerk response did probably more harm then good. Read this. Would you have done differently from what I have done? And removed the plastic bags from the heads of those sunflower plants? If so , you are a much better person than I am. Bird born in captivity & 353 heads // Meet Jackie http://shanlung.livejournal.com/132671.html Which continued on to Wild caughts // Jackie and Jackie Mash // plug for Formosan Blue Magpies http://shanlung.livejournal.com/133308.html

I lost Tinkerbell twice. But for the grace of God, I would have been a shadow of a man if Tinkerbell had remain lost. Those that have not lost a bird cannot ever imagine the pain in the depth of your soul and heart. I cannot and will not wish that on anyone, be that person Hitler, Osama or my ex mother in law. If you have continue reading in the livejournal you quoted, you would have come across the entire episode written in real time to how that happened and how I got her back, together with the reason why I lost her as I realised later. I extract that part and higlight in bold where you might have missed. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa The first time she came out it was ok. It was ok still for a while. Then she spooked and flew. My mouth dropped as she flew and flew and flew, way way way beyond 3 miles. Thought you folks better be aware of that especially when you all seem to be mesmerised that 3 miles is still the limit, That was a nightmare that I do not wish on my worse enemy. I wrote of that experience so that if anyone want to try to free fly, they can get a taste of how that could be like. When I wrote those letters to the parrot mailing list on recovering Tinkerbell after two days and nights . I could not eat or sleep and did not know if I was alive or I was dead. If I had not recovered her, those letters would never be written. Since those letters were very long, I had to break that into 3 parts. My friends around the world had a shock of their lives as they all grew very attached to Tinkerbell. They thought that she was still lost at that time when I send of that first letter. They did not see that it was 1 of 3. You can read that experience and get a first hand taste of what it is like to be in the Overnighter's club below. You can also read my conclusion there and then. (Part 1 - The Early Period) Tinkerbell free flight report 1 of 3 http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/free2.html Tinkerbell free flight report 2 of 3 http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/free3.html Tinkerbell free flight report 3 of 3 http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/free4.html Tinkerbell free flight - In Retrospect http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/free5.html Ultimately, it was my deliberate targetting of kindergartens and junior schools with fliers and posters adding to my pool of eyes and ears with younger people more likely to see and talk among themselves that lead to final recovery. It was a kid that gave me the break I needed. Bear that in mind if you need to recover your parrot. Not that what I said help. I have seen so many recovery attempts here that did not seem to consider kids can be your most important assets as they are more honest and open. Our vision and our hearing is nothing like that of parrots with their much superior senses. What you deemed to be 'safe' may be very threatening to them. You cannot make assumptions on their behalf as to their surroundings. A few months after that incident, I came across an article in the local press that thousands of ducks in the farms around the area were dying. There was a military airbase in that area. To prevent accidents from birds striking the planes, the airbase used an ultrasonic device to scare away birds. That frightened the ducks leading to their death. It could just be that at that time when I took Tinkerbell for her truly free flight, that airbase might have activated the alarm scaring Tinkerbell and spooking her off. (Some time later, I found this letter I wrote "Playing music to ducks" in a parrot list archive and I posted that letter here) http://www.livejournal.com/users/shanlung/19127.html aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I hope you will take the time to read that and learn from the lesson in which I paid the price. The best safe guard to keeping your birdie safely is to know as much as you can, especially from lessons with price paid by other people. After you read above and think that was so painful and agonising, the next loss was even more agonising, beyond wildest imagination of anyone. Beyond all hope, I continued to search and lay the groundworks for her return. Never imagining I would ever see her again. I thought I was doing that more in atonement and in memory of Tinkerbell soul. That episode was also in the Livejournal, but in comments near the end. I extract that here.Read what happened in Bantienyen in 2007/2008 Tinkerbell at BanTienYen The Agony http://shanlung.livejournal.com/71760.html Tinkerbell - Rescue at Bantienyen http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73198.html Tinkerbell - Bantienyen In Retrospect http://shanlung.livejournal.com/73232.html

shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 - Before visitting her // Sieben // Formosan Blue Magpies & Molly shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 -Being with her Part 1 // 30th June - 2 July 2011 shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 -Being with her Part 2 // 3 July -7 July 2011 shanlung: Tinkerbell Summertime2011 Wuling Nong Chang & leaving Taiwan

I really do not know what to say. I have good friends here that I do missed. And it seems at least a new friend in Gwen that found value in what I have written. I paid a price, a very heavy price in doing what I have done, first with Tinkerbell and then Riamfada. When you open up your heart and soul to them. Which they knew, and gave back in kind to me and more. Without which we would not have done the things that we did. I did not dwell on the pain of farewells with them. But those who read of my happiness with them should be able to know. And it took months for those kind of pain to subside to bearable levels. So when a drama queen came along and wanted to tango with me, my mental frame was such that I did not care to tango. What for? When what I wanted was to max my happiness and min any aggro as I tried to let the scars in my heart scab over as best as possible after Riamfada. I got another birdie to join my life as part of that healing process. You all know I just could not get a grey. In fact, Riamfada was not sought. She came suddenly into my life as you all know. He was Libai, a Greater Greenleaf bird. A wild caught, about 3 years old and supposedly only a song bird. But he was not told that. And became my companion as I treated him the way I know, with respect courtesy and dignity due to another intelligent sentient Obviously, what Tinkerbell and Riamfada taught me went into all that you seen above and more. Libai graduated from his flight room as obvious from those photos above. He graduated to the entire apartment when he stepped up and flew to me on recall in that flight room. And obviously, even though I wrote of Libai, so much of my writings evoked lessons from Tinkerbell. Which was why I felt so uncomfortable when my request to continue on in that old Tinkerbell thread was turned down. Other forums that welcomed me to talk of anything and everything got Libai and more in real time as when it happened. Those interest in above can follow from the start in http://shanlung.livejournal.com/2011/03/ Perhaps as an Easterner and a Taoist, I saw too much into the interconnections of life. And for that, I cannot focus onto a single subject. You have seen that in my past writings, or even those at start of this thread. A few very different subject matters might crop up. I do not know as to what I am writing until I finished. But I know it is hardly just on one matter. Which was why I never considered offers publishers made to me to write. As I know I write on what is in my heart and which might be objectionable to other vested interests. Since I know my mindset is so different from most others with birds, i tried to walk a narrow path away to minimise even inadvertent conflicts. And to restraint myself only to just one thread if possibile so those who want to avoid me and easily avoid me rather than I writing onto several threads. And if conflicts with anyone want to intrude onto me, I will walk away. As I felt I had to do with another dysfunctional drama queen in yet another forum. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum // Building trust & understanding with Oberon In the process of just writing on Libai, I have questions that I tried to answer in full, such as on clicker training. Which needless to say, drew almost entire from Tinkerbell. So you can see how ludicrous it was to say I was to stop talking of Libai in Tinkerbell thread when events had been so interconnected. Read that here To Shanlung-Charlie and clicker training Charlie and clicker training - beyond touch target //LiBai on finger and in slow motion videos Since above is on clicker training, i guess this will be an appropriate place for above. So you can see how impossible it was. Was I to break my thread on Libai to suddenly go back into Tinkerbell thread when I talked of Tinkerbell? And then break Tinkerbell thread when I go back to Libai? Was I to write my Livejournal specifically for one or the other? when what I learned just interplayed and formed new connections? You will also find that old Tinkerbell thread here coming to life. I visited her in June/July 2001 in my Tinkerbell Summer2011. So those who loved Tinkerbell should go and follow her there in the grey lounge.

Amazingly, I am still a recognised member here. I was not too sure of that when I logged in again. But since I am here, folks might find this 2 to be interesting. To Shanlung - How to do Free Flight Outside http://shanlung.livejournal.com/129976.htm And with a certain school encouraging the use of unweaned birdies to train for free flight outdoor, I sure hate to rain on that parade, such as what I wrote below What prompted me to write mentality of grey // Imprinting of birds// A fairy in my life http://shanlung.livejournal.com/130187.html

I find it emotionally difficult to leave this thread as Tink is that first love and still my love. Talks of Yingshiong, Riamfada were all done here for that reason. I hear you that Libai is not a grey and not appropriate here. Sorry to hear of that.

Take care. Beaded curtains only slow down and not stop birdie getting through. Even double layer of beaded curtains. Read this and be scared, very scared. Hanging beaded curtains not entirely safe http://shanlung.livejournal.com/86456.html Better to be scared then broken hearted.

This must be cultural. Tink loves sushi, and must be the freshest of sushi. Taste test by adoring sushi chefs always had her going for the best (and costliest) sushi each time. Sushi stored in freezer by me and then thawed and given to Tink would see her flying in huff with that sushi to drop that offending piece in front of Halftail the kitty. Who ate it up immediately. I get to eat her leftovers.

Bon appetite! If you all read my batches of TInkerbell Mash from 1 to 8, you would have read of the initial resistance of Riamfada for the first couple of days to the mash. Riam had to be coaxed into acceptance. It was only Batch 9 that she dug into that from the first day. Groundnuts = peanuts with skin still on and shells off. Batch 2 Tinkerbell Kitty mash made from Ivan who is happily munching into it. Just like kitty mash recipe except I used 120 grams of groundnuts instead of mix of almond/brazil nuts. I mixed in 400 grams of minced beef, 200 grams of minced chicken and 150 grams of dried anchovies (for the calcium in fish bones) , all liquidized with the beans. Batch 2 was cooked and frozen a couple days ago. And that will also be the insectivore mash that I be given to my insectivore green leaf bird coming to me tomorrow.

luvparrots is largely correct. I had to run off to do a bit of work. I was also a bit weary of attacks on me for stuff of little importance and detract from the main message that I tried to send. So I went off into kitty forums where no one but no one ever think of alphaing or dominance over cats. After all, I did write a lot on kitties that I found out were a lot more appreciated in those kitty forums. I was also in another birdie grey forum, until I gave up in the futility as DOMINANCE and Alphahood was so enshrined in stone there that it pained me. But back to birdie. And this is one of my favourite photo of Tink on motorbike. Where the 3 of us were in that same photo when most of the time, it was me with Tink or Tink alone. In Taiwan, at holiday places, scooters were rented saving folks a long ride or drive as they can just pick a scooter then and there. I carried with me coils of sisal ropes to quickly rig up a perch as can be seen in photo. From http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/wtink08chipeng.htm I found an old entry I made in http://shanlung.livejournal.com/19987.html and extracted below. It is interesting to see how I stood away from the mainstream of thoughts even then. How I resisted the requirement to dominate the birdies. How even at that earlier stage, Tinkerbell was accepted as the prime trainer and I the trainee. That I refuse to use food or hunger as their main motivation. I nearly gave in when Tink flew away. But you all realised I never did even then. Of which I am most glad as only by treating them with courtesy and respect and consideration as fellow equal sentients would they all then do for me more than what I could dream of. And that will be the road that I will be taking with my greenleaf bird that I will be getting tomorrow. Although I do not know if I write of that here. As after all, his color will be green and not grey, and his bill will be straight. 888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 More old letters of Tink - Clicker training and bonding and freeflight When I set up the webpage, I must have wanted to put in a lot more than I actually did. I went and updated the "Some thoughts on Clicker training". Then I checked again and found a bunch of other letters I should have included into "clicker training and bonding" The first letter is here, and followed by others as well. So for friends of Tinkerbell, here they are . .... SADLY THE FORUM COMPLAINED The text that you have entered is too long (21991 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long. so you just have to click on that link Shanlung - More old letters of Tink - Clicker training and bonding and freeflight

Morana, Do try to enjoy life and smell roses too. That can best be done if you lighten up and laugh. Try to recognise when I write tongue in cheek if not foot in mouth. That I poke a lot more fun at myself then at anyone else, be they humanoids or beastie or birdie. And when it comes to bad things, I probably flagellate myself more effectively than any others here can on me. Sadly no birdie with me now. I think I get my Ivan , the cat from Hongkong days, to have that beer with me instead. My free period is likely to end soon and I disappear from here altogether. Until then, let us enjoy the forum and fun and learn to disagree and laugh at each other differences without being too righteous on anything. We need more tolerance in a world where we all are running out of time.

Among the useless things that I have done and you should discard totally will be free flights with both Tinkerbell (towards the end of that first period with her) and Riamfada. All the stuff must be oriented towards to good life for the birdie. Free flights in the open and outdoors add so little to their physical and mental and emotional health, and the dangers are so great. IT IS JUST NOT WORTH IT NEVER EVER DO FREE FLIGHTS. FREE FLIGHT IS LIFE AND DEATH PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF UNLESS YOU DO KNOW. NEVER EVER FREE FLY WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AS THIS CAN LEAD TO LOSS AND DEATH OF YOUR BIRD.

1) Doesn't sweet corn have large amount of sugar? Isn't that harmful for the birds? Fruits that you give your birdie such as apples, strawberries, etc etc have sugar in it. When the sweetcorn is a tiny fraction of the overall mash, I do not think we have to be concerned 2) I don't know if we have in our stores frozen sweet corn (I never saw any). Can I buy fresh and then freeze it? Is there a process which I need to follow or I can just put it in the fridge? why does it need to be frozen in the first place? If you do not have sweet corn, use dry corn. In which case use 50 grams of dry corn, or 100 grams if the corn is not dry. I used frozen sweet corn as that was what I bought. 3) I newer saw a sweet potato so I don't think we have any. Can I use something else instead? I think sweet potato will be better . If you cannot get that, use potatoes. Google for photos of sweet potatoes 4) When I saw pictures of kidney beans I thought it was red bean, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)? Kidney beans are big looking red beans 5) When I saw pictures of lima beans and Great Northern white beans I thought they are the same, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)? Lima beans are big looking white beans. 6) If I except something from the recipe, do I need to compensate with something else? You do not need to. Or you can compensate by more of similar type. If you cannot get glutinous rice, use double portion of regular rice If no great northen white beans , use more black eyed beans. Or no need to substitute even. 7) What are green beans? This: http://www.ifood.tv/blog/four-tasty-...of-green-beans ? Or does it has to do with peas? Grren beans above below the peas and next to the red beans Look into the flickr folder with many more photos Preparing Tinkerbell Mash 7 8) There are peas in the picture but I haven't seen in the recipe that it says peas .. So how much peas? Or you want peas in a bean and that would then be answer to question number 7? So what do I do with the bean? throw it away? Thank you. I forgot to add the peas into the recipe even though it was clear my photos included that. I since changed the Livejournal and credited you for that discovery 9) Brown crushed barley? I think I know what barley is? But brown? Are there some other kind? I think I eat that for breakfast:-) Brown cereals are more healthy than refined cereals. Use brown where you can. 10) I don't know the difference between brown glutinious rice and brown rice? Glutinous means sticky, right? How can rice be sticky? Glutinous rice is common in Asia. Double the rice quantity or use more oats/wheat/barley 11) I know what oat is, but what is brown rolled oat? Use breakfast oats from the can and brown in color. 12) Have no idea what are brown rolled wheat berries. Picture? brown rolled oats, wheat and barley 13) Do i "peel" the shell of a Brazilian nut, right?-and how am I gonna do that? I saw them in a seed mix but don't know where can I buy just them. Any suggestions? No need for brazilian nuts if not available. 14) Now question about making TM. This is what I understood but I need exact time frame: In the morning I soak all the beans/peas for 8-10hours. Then I wash them/rinse and drain them. That is in the evening of the same day. I leave them like them in separate containers. Next morning, lunch time, dinner, for ten minutes I soak them again and then wash them/rinse and drain them. How many days do I need to repeat that process three times a day? Continuous soaking of beans can make them rot. So make sure you drain them after the soaking. I repeat this for 3 days from when I started adding water to when I cook them all together. Then I don't know when do I need to put peas and black beans in the fridge. How long do I need to keep them there? If the roots start to appear and about ¼ to ½ inch long, you put them into the fridge to slow the germinating process until the time of the cooking. Also, I don't know when do I need to take a third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Am I right to think that I pour boiling water over that? You remove 1/3 to ¼ just before the time of cooking and liquidizing them. I have some whole green beans peas etc etc to give texture. These are safe beans unlike kidney, lima etc which must be thoroughly cooked. Now I put all the beans/peas in a pot and I keep it boiling for 5minutes. Remove icky scum while cooking. Then I cool it down. I blend all that was cooking and put it back in the pot and add water if it is too thick. Now I add that third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Do I add millet now? Yes. Add the wheat germ now too if you like. I let it boil again and cook it for 10 more minutes. Do I continue to cook when I add grated sweet potatoes and grated carrots? Yes. You then add the cereals with the pot still on the fire. Keep stirring. It will be fast to add the grated carrots and sweet potatoes. When the pot is boiling , you can take it off the stove. Now I add wheat germ. At this time is pot still boiling? Is it all together ten minutes or this last two steps prolong the cooking period? Don't we kill all the vitamins with cooking? Beause of the liquidizing of the beans, the cooking time is reduced to 10 minutes. If not, those beans must be cooked for an hour which will kill all the vitamins. I removed the pot and wrap towels around the pot. Leave it overnight. When did I start to cook all this? The pot continued to cook in its own heat. By next morning, it will be cool enough for packaging. I serve with veggies and fruit which I put in the mash? Vary the veggies as you like and as to season, together with fruits. I prefer to put fruits and veggies in foraging points. You can mix them all up with mash. If I wanted to add Brazilian nuts and almonds I would do that when liquidizing, right? Yes. But not necessary for brazil nuts and almonds. If I make the next batch of mash, I will use groundnuts, human grade, and parboiled for that 5 minutes with rest of beans before liquidizing.

Parroty jokes are not for the faint hearted. Even if not done on me, I seen enough of fierce lunges by Riam on my wife which turned out to be jokes at me and my wife expense.

I did not even know I got messages and not just from you. I answered all of them. Your questions on the mash are good. If you can repeat that in that thread Tinkerbell Mash, I can answer all that for the record and encourage yet others as well who might face the same problems.