JeffNOK

Hi and welcome. You have a beautiful bird! You mentioned getting Gandalf ready to go on a first visit to Mom's. Early socialization is really important, and I commend you for making it part of the big plan for Gandalf's life. I think I rushed the process a bit with my CAG Gracie. I remember that I brought her home on December 14th 2011, and took her on her first journey (In a Pak-O-Bird) to my parents' house for Christmas eve. It wasn't a disaster, but she was out of her element, flew and crashed into walls and perched on a high light fixture refusing to come down or step up for quite some time. I am not trying to say your TAG will have any problems, but if I had to do it over again, I would have people come to my place for socialization first before taking her out of her home. I will admit that Gracie my CAG took a while to warm up to me and acclimate to our home anyway, and her "grey time" may be longer than your TAG's. I had to back off and let her ease into things more slowly. What I thought would take days--took months. In the end she adjusted well, but I had to recalibrate my expectations and timetables. Now she loves to travel and meet people and visits "friends" several times a month. Just read her body language and assess her comfort level and proceed accordingly. Good luck and keep us all updated.

I tend to agree with Nancy. When I did early research about greys before I got Gracie, there was some debate about whistling. Some said it delayed or prevented talking, others disagreed. For me, before Gracie started talking we would whistle a lot--we still do. I found that whistling became a form of communication and attuned her ears to listen to me and respond accordingly--this eventually led to speech. I can only speak to my specific case with Gracie--but in no way did whistling affect her language use. I think it facilitated it because she listened to me--imitated my whistles and then extended that to listening to and imitating my words. Gracie prefers words because they contain meaning. She is able to get what she wants or express herself. She gets a concrete, tangible reaction when she uses words. Whistles are fun, but they don't get things done. 90% of Gracie's vocalizations are in English--but she still likes to whistle, and we have a great time harmonizing together. Maybe it depends on the bird. All I know is that when Gracie is happy and relaxed she talks rather than whistles. I don't know if there is any hard evidence to support the notion that whistling is bad--but perhaps the research hasn't been done, or I haven't run across it. I only have one bird to "study", and she may be the exception rather than the rule, so I am not trying to advise. For some greys whistling may impede language use--I don't know. I am just sharing one individual case.

Sometimes greys just like the sound of a word and redefine its meaning. Sophie probably knows what YOU mean by morning, but she has decided to expand its meaning. Maybe morning just means happiness or activity or whatever (maybe "breakfast"=food). Gracie uses most of her words in context, but certain words she persistently uses out of context. No matter how much I correct her--it never sticks. She has her own definitions and chooses to retain them despite my efforts to educate.

I am also quite interested in Vasa parrots. Like you said, everything owners say about them is positive. Their appearance is striking. Some might find them dark and in sharp contrast to the stereotype of a colorful parrot like a Macaw, Sun Conure, or Rainbow Lorikeet , but I see dignity in their features. I read somewhere that the Vasa is the most ancient parrot and may be the "link" in evolution between raptors and parrots. I don't know if that is true, but they are intriguing. They do seem to be pricey and difficult to find (like the Cape/Uncape/Grey Headed Parrot I mentioned in an earlier post.). Some say they are very good talkers and very intelligent. I have never seen one in real life--but I would love to. I will probably always be a one bird man--but in the "aviary of my dreams" I imagine a Vasa Parrot perched next to my Palm Cockatoo and Hyacinth Macaw.

Well I was asked what made the relationship "amazing" without physical affection, so I tried to share the wonderful things we share. I hope I didn't paint too glowing a picture of our relationship, however. Gracie, like any parrot, can be a stinker. She loves to dump her food bowl and throw food all over. During the time she perches on me for bonding time, she often poops on my shirt. When I take her to visit my parents she gets nippy and bites sometimes. She never bites at home--but somehow she gets bratty when traveling. Last Sunday I stayed at my parents' house with Gracie and she bit me pretty hard. When I got back from church later I showed her where her bite had broken the skin. She fluffed her feathers and said, "Ouchie! Gracie Bite!". No remorse. I think she felt proud of her handiwork. I also worry that I spent a lot of time describing her language and talking skills. I do have to admit that her verbal communication really has enhanced our bond. It gives me insight into her mind and personality. But, I realize not all greys talk as much--or at all. Odds are they will talk--but there are no guarantees, and I wouldn't want anyone to expect that. Even if Gracie didn't talk so much--I know she would probably communicate just as well in other ways and our relationship would be the same. I don't want to glorify talking or make it seem like the grey's best quality. It isn't. Anyway--thanks for the comment. I hope the original poster finds the right bird for him. He seems like the kind of person that would provide a good home for a feathered friend. Tonight Gracie melted my heart a bit. It has been a long cold winter and spring is just beginning to burst forth. Gracie and I haven't been to the park since early November on a warm Indian Summer day. Well, out of the blue Gracie said, "Gracie wanna go bye bye in car. Go to park. See birdies. See people. Sunshine." I think she knows the seasons have changed and park time is coming.. She hasn't mentioned the park in months. I'm ready to go!

Thank you for this post. Heartbreak and loss can be senseless--but you have decided to turn your sadness into blessing for many others. That takes strength and character and I respect you and your future work. Bless you.

I don't have any suggestions but I will you and Pearl in my prayers.

I had to laugh when you mentioned "an older spoiled" Pomeranian. Lol--is there any Pomeranian that isn't spoiled!? Beautiful dogs--but they thrive like no other when spoiled. I am so glad that you are helping your friends in this decision. I will pray for continued healing through this process.

My grey refuses pellets. Won't touch them. I feed her a mix of vegetables (broccoli, peas, corn, carrots, potato, sweet potato, cauliflower, peppers, green beans) legumes, pasta, oatmeal, egg white, various greens, spouts, seeds, nuts, rice, dried fruits. etc . She typically wastes 50% or more of whatever I give her--but she is happy and healthy and strong--so it seems to be working.

My CAG Gracie shows affection in many ways. Sometimes she will fly over and perch on my hand and chill with me. She will nibble at the buttons on my shirt or preen my chest hair for a bit. I don't get to pet her--but she is close. This only happens about 20-30 minutes a day, however. Also, Gracie is a real talker and we interact very meaningfully through "conversation". We have chats--literally--about our daily activities and our wants and moods. I teach her songs and we sing them together. Sometimes she takes the lyrics and changes them. I taught her the song "Jesus Loves Me" and she changed the lyrics to "Yes, Jesus Wants Some Cheese--Yes Jesus Wants Some Cheese"--in perfect tune. I taught her "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" and one day when I left the room she changed the words from "Bring Back My Bonnie to Me" and it became "Bring Back--Bring Back--Bring Back my Daddy to me--to me!" Now this is one of her contact calls. It is funny and heartwarming and meaningful and bonding. We also whistle back and forth inventing new tunes and trying to imitate each other. Often, I sit by her cage and ask her, "Gracie whatcha doing?" She will look at me then do something (like grab one of her toys) and reply--"Gracie on cage. Gracie likes toy." Then she will ask me, "Daddy whatcha doing?" and I do something and tell her about it (something she knows the words for). She will then repeat what I am doing. (-well some of the time). We go visit family or friends and Gracie perches in the middle of us all chatting and playing and engaging us sometimes with jokes or mischief. If she feels ignored she may fly over everyone's head touching each person with her feet and saying "Gracie Gracie Gracie" with great delight. She especially likes to irritate my friend Pam by intentionally calling her the wrong name (The name of a person Gracie knows Pam dislikes.) It is intentional and calculated to get a reaction--which it does. It's hilarious. "Don't call me that! I'm Pammy!" Gracie just eyes her and repeats the name of her nemesis. These little glimpses of her humor and mind gives insight into her personality and allows me to know and appreciate her. We go to the park and sit in the sun and talk about the people we see and the birds that fly by and the dogs walking the trails. Gracie comments on everything. "Gracie see birdies." "Gracie likes sunshine" "Doggy--woof woof." When an insect enters her travel cage at the park, she says "Ah! Ah! No!" she hates bugs. Sometimes we just sit quietly and let the sun warm us and let the breeze wash over us. It is very intimate. When I get Gracie's meals ready she flies into the kitchen to supervise and make sure I'm doing it "correctly." She reminds me that she wants "Peas and corn and carrots." If I forget something she lets me know. She often also asks for "Dorito"--but she rarely gets those since they're not healthy, but she is ever hopeful. Gracie has great empathy. She understands my moods and tries to cheer me up if I am down. When I served on jury duty a few months ago it was very difficult emotionally. It was a terrible murder trial that was quite depressing. When I came home Gracie would fly to me and say, "Whatsa matter? Don't worry be happy. Gracie loves Daddy." Then she would just sit quietly on my hand. Gracie will call me over to her cage and say "Wanna see Daddy." "Wanna touch shoulder." I go over and offer her my shoulder. She tenderly reaches out her beak and gently touches my shoulder. Sometimes she then takes a chomp out of my shirt and tries to chew a hole in it-but not always. These are just some examples of how we are close and share life together and show love for one another. Greys are so smart that you begin to feel truly understood by them. It is like a friendship more than a pet situation. It may not be very "hands on", but it goes to the heart.

Before I got my grey I really believed that affectionate touch with my grey was paramount and of great importance. Having had dogs and cats, I was used to cuddle time, and wanted that with my grey. Of course I would still love that, but I know her personality and that is not likely to happen. I never say never, though . In spite of that, I don't feel like I am missing out on anything. I have a warm and close relationship with my grey and, to my surprise, I do not really miss the physical affection. That is just my case, and some greys are cuddly--but in general adult greys tend to only tolerate head scritches from time to time--on their terms--usually when they are sleepy and getting ready for bed. If physical affection is extremely important or a deal breaker for you, you might want to think long and hard about whether a grey is the right bird for you. I don't want you be disappointed if your grey doesn't appreciate that kind of relating. A Greenwing Macaw is known to be pretty affectionate and cuddly (blue and golds, too). But as you said, Macaws are rarely suitable for apartments. I have met some very affectionate Caiques, but they can also be loud. Conures are also cuddly--but loud too and smaller than what you are looking for. I don't know if you have ever researched the Cape Parrot (Also called Uncape Parrot). They are about the size of a Timneh grey but look bigger because of their huge beaks. They are the largest of the Poicephalus genus and are known to be very smart and also cuddly and quiet. I think they very attractive, yet comical looking too. The downside is that they are very expensive. Maybe twice the cost of a grey and difficult to find. I am not trying to talk you out of getting a grey. I have no doubt you would be wonderful with your bird. It just seems like maybe you are looking for a slightly different personality. I don't want you to be frustrated or disappointed.

Hi and welcome. I wanted to address two of your questions concerning fear when you enter the room carrying a large or unfamiliar object, and issues with being touched or being nervous when hands go behind her. Most greys tend to dislike foreign objects and the sudden appearance of something large and unfamiliar can be startling and scary. When I have to carry something new into the room I always tell Gracie (my CAG) that I am coming. I always give a sort of warning. I often say, "Don't be scared it's ok" before I enter--then she knows something new is coming through and that it isn't something to fear. I also recommend placing your body between the bird and the new object. As much as possible--hide the object behind you--away from the bird. That really helps. Never just enter the room holding the object out in front of you leading the way. As far as comfort with touch and having hands behind her...This is more difficult. Not all greys want to be touched or handled much and we need to respect that. My grey is not cuddly and does not like to be scritched or touched a lot. That is just her preference and has nothing to do with the depth of our bond. Also, as prey animals approaching a grey from behind is scary. I doubt many greys are comfortable with hands going behind them. That is how a predator would approach--from above or behind. It is just instinct that they will be nervous about that. I always approach my grey face on and at eye level or below.

Hi and welcome! It is great that you are here and I think you will find that most people here sincerely want to help. I came here as a complete parrot newbie and this forum has been a lifeline. As Timbersmom said, many on the forum work typical 9-5 jobs and are away during the day. I am a teacher and luckily get home a bit earlier, but your schedule is not prohibitive as long as you have a lot of enrichment for your grey while you are away and that you really devote your home time to relating and spending special time with your grey. From your post you seem more than willing to do that. Four good hours out of the cage is a good goal. One thing I might suggest is that you socialize your bird with friends and family as well that might be able to spend some time with your grey during your busy tax season. I recently had a month of jury duty where I was away from home many evenings quite late. I had friends and family stop by on a rotating basis who she knows and loves. It made my absence easier to handle. That may not be possible in your situation, but it is something to consider. I live in a one bedroom condo with neighbors all around. My grey is vocal, but she is not loud and no neighbors have ever complained about noise. As far as the temperament of your grey, much of that is unique to the individual grey. If you spend a lot of time with your bird and bond closely, I am sure that you will have a wonderful relationship. My grey is not very cuddly, but she loves me and lives for our time together--as I do. Good luck and keep us posted on how things progress with you on this journey. As far as your concerns about plucking or phobic or neurotic behavior, I believe most of that can be avoided as long as you provide for your grey's physical, mental, and emotional needs.

Nancy, you have every right to decide what you will do in the future, but from what I know about you from this forum, any of God's creatures would be blessed to have you as a mom. One of my favorite movies is "Shadowlands" where CS Lewis faces the loss of his only love and she looks at him and says "With love--pain is part of the deal." We only grieve when have loved. Sometimes the pain seems unbearable, but if you ever decide to open your heart and home to another dog, bird...cat...horse...whatever--I have no doubt it would be wonderful.

I'm so sorry Nancy. Bless you for all the love and support you gave Zoey--and received in return.

I know how heartbroken you must be. I can only thank you and Cocoa for sharing with us all these years. I was always very happy to see you and your birds out in beautiful nature enjoying life. I'm so sorry you had to say goodbye too soon. Bless you.

I'm glad Zoey seems to be taking a turn for the better. Keep us posted--prayers continuing.

Oh wow...I can't say I will be downloading much of Hatebeak's music, but I am glad Greys are getting some fame from singing. Gracie loves to sing--but we stick to old standards like "Jesus loves me.", "Respect", "My Bonny Lies Over the Ocean" and "You Are My Sunshine." Gracie is an old fashioned Oklahoma girl-not a metal "chick". I've noticed she makes up her own songs with lyrics from her daily life and melodies she creates on her own. Song topics include veggies, toys, going bye bye in car, my parents' dog, and both kissing and biting Daddy (me). Her "Corn and Peas Yum Yum" song could be a classic with a little work and back-up singers!

14 months is pretty young. My CAG had a vocabulary of about 7 phrases until about 14 months, and then she started to really pick things up and use them clearly from that point. I agree with Inara that lots of meaningful talk with your bird helps. Once your grey realizes his words have meaning and effects, he will be more likely to use them. Take every opportunity to narrate your life. Talk about whatever you are doing in simple consistent ways. Talk about whatever Perry is doing in the same way. Responding to any utterance Perry makes is also very important. Even if you aren't quite sure what he is saying--responding consistently shows Perry that language is reciprocal and meaningful and a bonding experience. Also watch Perry's body language. I can always tell when Gracie is about to learn some new phrase because when she hears me say it, she stops, cocks her head, and focuses intently. Look for those signs and capitalize on them. This shows that your bird likes what he is hearing and has his senses heightened to learn it and use it. Gracie is now 2 1/2 years old with a vocabulary of 350+ words. Most of the time when Gracie talks, she is expressing her feelings, desires, and observations. She knows what she is saying and has purpose to it.

I love reading about Miss Gilbert. It is heartwarming to share the experience with you and see how Gilbert is growing in her relationship with your family. Just little moments of daily life together can mean so much.

Congratulations on your new foster. I have no experience with Meyers, but I did a lot of research on different parrot species before I decided on a Grey, and I seriously considered getting one of the POIs. Meyers have a really good reputation as companion birds, and I'm sure you will enjoy the experience. Best wishes on the new leg if the journey.

Gracie now demands at least 30 minutes a day of physical contact. No "cuddles" per se--but she wants to be "on" me. I'm very happy about this new development,

I have to say that my 2 1/2year old CAG Gracie has a wicked sense humor--but it tends to be at the expense of others. I have a friend, Pam, who Gracie knows well. Pam dislikes another friend of mine--Lorne--and Gracie KNOWS that. Whenever Gracie talks about Lorne, Pam says=="No, Lorne is bad!" Well--when I was treated to a birthday party this past weekend, several friends and family members were there. Gracie knows all their names and greets them accordingly. Pam was there (Lorne wasn't). Pam came over to greet Gracie--Gracie looked at her and said, "Gracie wanna see Lorne!" Later Gracie called out. "Where's Pam?" Pam rushed over to Gracie, and Gracie said, "Gracie wanna talk to Lorne!" She loves the reaction she gets when Pam fumes. It is very calculated. She also plays a game with my mother. She calls to my mother, and then when my Mom engages her, Gracie says "What do YOU want?" and tries to nip at her. Gracie says it with such withering distain, like my mom is a bad smell in her beak. She really does love my mother--but she especially loves the reaction she gets when she eyes my mom and says "What do YOU want? My mom takes it all in stride (unlike Pam). Another thing that puts me in stitches is when Gracie scolds me for disturbing her sleep. Sometimes late at night ,after I have put Gracie to bed, I make unintentional noise. Last week I bumped a lamp passing by her cage at 1 AM. After the noise, I heard an irritated voice: "AH! Ah! . Bad! Gracie Go Nights Nights! Sleepy Time!". She makes me laugh--even when she is pissed off. It is really something.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, our family Labrador had the same dire prognosis and recovered completely. I have faith this will happen again.

You will both remain in my prayers. God Bless you. Hoping for a turn around. Anything is possible.