katana600

It has been just seventeen months since we lost our second baby to PDD. They were working on a test for PDD at the time but did not have one definitive for PDD. We were diagnosed after the death by necropsy. They had a test for poop that had to be repeated three times and even then, it has a high failure rate. I have studied and studied this through our breeder, our babies original vet who is solely avian certified and they have studied this for more than four decades. I am not saying there is no blood test for PDD, but it doesn't sound right. I have tried not to think of it since we brought Gilbert home. My thoughts are this, since Stewart and Oliver have been together for so long in close quarters for so long, I wouldn't try to separate them at this time even though it does seem reasonable. You could have an entire flock exposed to PDD and nothing happens to all the healthy birds for ten years or more and then it can rear its ugly head again. Our breeder stopped breeding when our second one with PDD was confirmed. He was from the same clutch as our first. They have other ways to look for symptoms and signs of PDD and it makes sense to keep other birds from your two for now and keep them from having a secondary infection brought in while Oliver is sick. I have a cloud over me with my two and I don't go around anyone else with parrots and I don't segregate the two I have as neither of them show any signs of illness. I do keep weight charts and keep regular vet visits, but PDD is a mystery still after so many years. The one thing I am absolutely clear on, the time and attention you are giving Oliver makes a difference. It is painful and it is expensive, but when you look into his eyes, I know there is nothing you wouldn't do for him and he knows it. The one thing that has healed my heart from our experience with PDD is that I gave it everything I had, my boys knew they were wanted and loved and were given a loving and quiet place, good food and that makes a difference in their world and in Oliver and Stewart's. I won't say anything about the person with all these birds where you got yours or I wouldn't be able to breathe another breath. Don't waste your energy on them while you need to keep your spirits up, while your energy is needed for Oliver and Stewart. You have given them the information and it is likely to have fallen on deaf ears. Denial is a powerful emotion and you have to focus on those things you can change. For today, just breathe, give your heart to your two beautiful boys and tomorrow is another day. Cherish the moments and know you have strength to handle what comes when it comes. Today you have this beautiful boy and he knows he is loved.

Here we go Brownies, Here We Go! Hooo Hooo. Go Dawg Pound. My husband is a huge Cleveland Brown fan, looks for Browns backers here in Atlanta and would be so happy to hear you are in Cleveland. I think he only married me because I was born in Ohio. Already you are a parrot person. That you would leave your quaker in capable hands and then put his best interests before your own, plus being a veteran and so level headed to research first and find your grey all in good time, you are already ahead of the curve. Be prepared if you find a baby and keep your impulses in check if you are offered an unweaned baby. It takes a while before they are properly weaned and the waiting process will make even the most patient among us want to push the breeder to take a baby early. A good breeder will make you wait for the baby to wean in its own good time, that is what you want to hear. Well, it isn't at the moment when you have a cage and a plan and the cash paid, but it really is what you want to hear to know you have a good breeder. Good luck with your patience while your grey companion finds you. Thanks for joining us and for the great intro. You are already an asset to the community and our country and now an asset to our forum community. Welcome.

Don't despair just yet. It isn't going to be a waste of money if it is a bacterial infection that can be cured with an antibiotic and they won't know without seeing him and testing. An antibiotic could be all that he needs. Take him anyway because they are giving you a worse case scenario and preparing you for the cost because some people don't care enough to pay the vet bills when they get there. I'm still with you and giving you all my prayers. The most important result is you will have a vet who knows you and maybe you can get a phone number for emergencies and help you through the care of Twix. Don't jump to dire conclusions until you have a definitive diagnosis. Keep heart and love your little fellow and hold on until morning.

When we lived in Dubai, some friends said the nearest avian vet was in Abu Dhabi and they took their African Grey to a falconry. My heart is with you, I have been where you are with a sick bird. Do what you can to keep him warm. It is more serious if he goes to the bottom of his cage than if he is perching. Keeping him warm and finding a vet is the most important thing I think. Good luck. I love him and I am so far away and haven't held him in my arms as you have, your love is ten thousand times deeper. Stay calm and talk gently, he understands you already.

I got a very short clip of Gilbert with his paper tape play. You can see he is on the very top of his playtop and he is still quite timid and jittery. Now though, when I leave paper up there on the play top, he will get it and take it to the highest perch to tear it apart. This is big news because for the past year if he is offered any toy or paper, non-food item, he gets frightened and will sit on one perch huddled in a little ball. Today he was dropping the main piece of paper tape through the bars and then would climb back into his cage, climb to the bottom grate and retrieve it, then carry it all the way back up to the highest perch to play and shred it.

I am seeing evidence that he is pushing boundaries in other areas such as play as well as he is getting more brave about hopping down onto the floor, then wandering around. This weekend when he got on the floor, I stayed in the kitchen and he came out to me. He would go under a chair, wait until he worked up some nerve, then quickly quickly dash to the ottoman and hang out under there making his warning siren sounds trying to get me to come rescue him. I stayed put and he finally came right to my chair in the kitchen with much encouragement. He only covered about six feet of floor space that wasn't under furniture where he felt hidden. Also, he has been eliciting scratches from my husband, taking almonds from him and even has stepped up when asked. That is major that he is responding to someone other than me. At the same time, he is refusing me at times and discovering that nothing happens, I ask for a step up where he would generally comply and he does not want to step up so he turns his back to me. After he bit me when I was giving him an almond, for the next few days, I just offered him an almond in his dish rather than to set up a confrontation. I am certain that I misread some of his behavior but for the most part I give him room to feel safe. He was playing with me again this morning. I will post a video, you can see him flinch when I move, he is always wound up so tight and so nervous, but I see bits of change. It is very likely he could be getting hormonal with the spring season. If that is the case, I am applauding because it makes him braver to move into some new positive behavior as well. He ran to the bars this morning and continues to elicit a scratch when I get up or come into the room and he is talking and making contact calls to me when I am out of the room.

He looks so big and robust and healthy. What a beautiful boy. Great job with the new camera, I could use some lessons.

I have to admit, I was holding my breath when the dog's tender nose was so close to a sharp beak, but it was a tender moment of the two sharing, no pun intended.

As I prepared to go to bed last night, the last thing I do to wind down the night is to have a little snuggle time with Java, then her almond, a scratch for Gilbert and then his almond. He knows when it is his turn now and I don't even ask, he runs off the top of the cage, swings into his favorite perch for a scratch and when I gave him his almond at the end, he did the same fling of the almond and a lunge for a bite. I was quicker this time and escaped his bite. He bit the wires and had a full on tantrum. This time his almond went out of the cage through the open food door and I made a point of picking it up and showing it to him and putting it back in the almond container and told him no bite and he got no night night sweet bird with his snack time. As I awakened this morning, I had an insight. Both these incidents were preceded with a stressor for Gilbert. The first time it was a little while after we got home from my daughters and he had seen her cat for the first time. This time it was the storm and having the excitement of not only going to the basement for shelter which was out of his comfort zone, during a storm which gets him into a turmoil, but we also had company he had never met. They kept their distance and didn't interact with him, but the household was out of the quiet zone he usually finds soothing. When I expected him to be jumpier and out of sorts, he was much more calm and centered than I expected. It was the second quiet day when he had been predictable all day that he had his meltdown and trick bite. I wonder if it is somewhat like my own reaction in life when there is a crisis. During some real crises, I am calm, in an automatic almost trance like state where I make all the necessary motions to be competent and do what must be done. When my children have been sick or hurt would be an example. I may stay awake all night with a sick child trying to get a fever down. When my daughter had a seizure for instance, I would be all business, checking her airways, keeping calm for her. But after the visit to the emergency room and home again with her back to normal, is when I would suddenly start to tremble and feel out of control. Maybe during crisis Gilbert is doing all he can internally not to revert to the plucking and hysteria and it is a day or two later when he is showing me just how traumatic the events have been. This is a maybe, I am just thinking it through. It could be this is his temperment and he is asserting that he wants to be "first" and maybe I took too long to get to him with his almond and he didn't have the patience to wait his turn while he was more "torqued up" than normal. This morning he is singing my praises "good morning sweetheart" in more jolly tones and he stepped up and he let me scratch his head out of the cage. I have to say that with a bruise still evident on my fingernail and the near miss last night, I have a little more fear of a bite coming suddenly without any posturing or "tell" but I believe in feeling the fear and doing it anyway. Maybe I just feel more warmth and forgiveness because he missed last night. I appreciate having this forum so much because what I may not remember, there will be someone here helping me to put the pieces together with a little distance for emotional objectivity. Also by keeping a running "log" I can go back to look at time frames and find nuances that I would otherwise have forgotten.

I went to the website to see what they were all about and noticed they don't list an "about us" or brick and mortar location but they are somewhere near us because my husband works in midtown Atlanta and they have the same area code in their phone number. The next time we have a bird fair, I will check the booth where I have seen these acrylic pieces and find out if all of them are unpleasant or if this is an employee issue. Something tells me this is something that comes from the top.

That is amazing, thanks for the information Ray. I found it so interesting, I went out to find links and then to look at hummingbirds for size comparisons. A hummingbird can weigh between 2 - 20 grams and one article compared that to a penny which weighs 2.5 grams. So one of the pygmy parrots weighs less than five pennies. Can you imagine how tiny they are when they hatch?

We have had a quick rebound from the storm, and then some. A few weeks ago, about the time the empty bottle was rejected, I also bought a couple of new toys. One is called "Almond Bread", it is thin wood in a bread shape which has corrugated cardboard layers with almonds layered in it. It has bright colored ropes and looked like something Gilbert and Java might like. It was firmly rejected and ejected from both cages. Then, I bought another acrylic based paper roll holder which uses adding machine tape as a refill. Java has had hers for years and we joke that she is a little accountant in there doing her "financials". Gilbert would have no part of it and it was outside the cage where he would climb to play. I didn't leave it there but tore off a short section for him. He wouldn't go near it. I held up a piece to him and he runs away. I showed him how Java will tear it up if I hold a piece for her, nothing doing. So, after the big storm and his whirlwind of momentary chest plucking he has been a little more touchy than usual, but thankfully, no more plucking. This morning he seemed to have an interest in tentatively punching a hole or two in the paper slip I handed him, so I wove it through the bars of his cage near the door. He would skirt around the scary looking thing on his way out the door but didn't play with it. I went over to take it off his cage as I was getting ready to give him his almond and night time scratches. When I started to take it away, he pulled to snatch it back from me. I thought it was just a reaction like trying to swipe me today when I was filling his food dish. I held the paper out and he started pulling off shreds and flinging them and grabbing it to do again. He was standing firmly on the cage top and had a good footing and he started grabbing it and shaking back and forth much like a puppy playing with a rope toy. It was hard to decide if he was upset or if he was playing. I haven't actually seen him play in a year that he has been with us. It was definitely play. He is playing! I let him make a pile of shreds on the living room floor and ripped off another ten inches or so of the paper. He has dragged it to the tip top of the cage top play stand. He is the king of the hill. He is climbing all over the cage top, up and down the curved ladders. It is a new day for Gilbert.

I was already well impressed at how well Lillie came right in and made herself at home that I never gave it a thought she was an older bird. I thought she was just a youngster. It is even more incredible that she is eight. Well done Lillie!

Aww, what a cutie. He looks relaxed and happy.

I think it is commendable to be honest that we all get frustrated from time to time. You are so right that they are all unique and individual and to keep looking for ways to enhance your relationship and make his experience and yours better by asking others with experience how to improve on what you already have in the relationship is a cause to celebrate. If Herbie is trying to get more interaction from you and you reward that behavior, it may be that you both are getting to a new place in your relationship and I would certainly applaud and encourage it.

Well done Ray. Your timing is impecable. Spot on. Parrot lovers are always coming back for more. I have to say I tolerate more from these parrots than I would have ever dreamed to do for my kids and they remind me of that often. I tell them, "I have evolved", be happy that your future children will be more spoiled than you were. LOL.

It is very good for you to point it out, I didn't take offense, just assuring myself and others, this too shall pass and we will learn from it. It really was the first time I didn't have the mindset to love him through his unpredictable behavior and find a "reason" for it. It just is. It marks a changing point where he made me mad enough to react, then for the first time I felt apprehensive about approaching him in his best of times. We did have a setback when the storms came through. It is the first time in this house we had to seek shelter in the basement. We had guests and that was a little disconcerting already for Gilbert but he was happily making the best of it. He already has an enhanced fear of storms so the lightning and thunder were the worst we have seen here. As the tornadoes were approaching and we were in the danger zone, the sirens were sounding for the first time and Gilbert already has experience with sirens from living on the gulf coast. Our dogs were also exhibiting unusual behavior as the storms approached. Java was real quiet in her travel cage and Gilbert was inconsolable. I opened his cage and he got on my shoulder and growled and growled and put his head down for scratches and reassurance. He wanted to be near me but he went into a frenzy of plucking. It was only for a moment and he plucked his chest only, not any flight feathers, thank goodness. When the storms passed, he calmed down and even tried to fly back to his cage when I approached with him on my shoulder. I left the lights on for him and he seems okay and I don't see evidence of more plucking. I just don't know what to do for him, he gets so very frightened. He seems a little more "needy" and asks for more head scratches inside the cage but he will duck and assume the scratch invitation position and then pull away and look at me, then bow his head again and again. Last night when he finally calmed down enough to elicit a scratch he just pushed himself against me for a long long time. I can't help but feel that the storms are something separate and apart from his usual "pulling inside himself". The progress he was making with play has been somewhat interrupted. I have complete confidence he will resume when he has had time to calm himself from the storms.

I say things tongue in cheek about him being at the phase of a second rehome. He has had too many homes already and I am committed no matter what, no matter what. This isn't our first bird, but he is our first "second, third or maybe fourth" rehome and he came with a built-in reputation and serious baggage. I am so elated to report that he is changing, it has taken him a year to get to the place where he is having some tantrums. It is fearsome. He flings food, bites his bars and there just isn't a description of his angst. But, sure enough, he is beginning to interact in a different way. He has been skirting around the outside of the cage top to avoid a couple of toys that have been up there for a full year. In the past two days he has been moving things around a little and I found something so exciting when I cleaned his cage today. There is a small stainless steel bucket up there with foot toys. Every now and again, I pull them out and play with them and show them to him. He may touch them with his beak but he immediately rejects them or takes it tentatively and then flings it. Today I found two plastic beads. When I started looked to see where they came from, he had untied a leather lace on a foot toy. Tonight, he was startled and jumped off his cage and hid under an ottoman, as usual. Instead of coming to me for a rescue, he went to David this time. He has done that a few times, but this time, he offered David a "kiss". David looked very skeptical and asked what Gilbert expected. When he does that to me he will lean over and put the back of his beak on my lip and make a kiss sound. Considering the recent ornery streak, I was stunned when Gilbert leaned over, David held still and Gilbert kissed him as a thank you for taking him back to his safety zone.

That is so funny. I was on the phone to a friend who has much more bird experience and asked what does an Amazon smell like? She said it was "musky", I asked if it was musky like cat spray and she laughed, she said no, it is a sweet perfume musk that is sometimes referred to as a jungle flower. I think I am only on the rebound after Gilbert was being a snot last week and looking at Amazon's just to threaten him with sharing his roost.

I know it is a matter of time, but I am still digging in my heels. Surrrrreee I am, what am I doing poring over the Amazon Room then? I was NOT looking when a parrot snuck right up on me and I swear I just woke up and she had moved in. I will have to start finding homes with Amazon's so I can sniff. Each of my birds does have a different scent. Gilbert smells like fresh linen just off the clothesline. Java smells similar with a fruity top note. LOL. I love the zest of a playful Amazon. I am going to watch all your videos, read your posts and love your birds virtually in the cyberworld. I made a looooong list of why a third bird is not a good idea. I turned it over to write all the positive aspects... then I forgot what I was doing and tossed my notes. LOL, an omen maybe? If I start doodling around writing parrot names, I'm a goner.

Thanks for your input and concern. If it were just one new toy and his reaction to it, I would probably be more likely to ditch it completely. I did remove it for a few days and he got interested in seeing the one the dogs have and the one Java has in her cage. Inside his cage he has only the familiar toys he either brought with him or accepted from the beginning. He is easily disturbed by small changes so I put anything new and some of his foot toys on the cage play top. He has to specifically go up there on the outside of his cage and he goes around the outside but seldom ventures to touch any of those toys. Just after I finished the last post, he was posturing and banging things around a little and I stepped up to talk to him and he bowed his head for a scratch. He almost never does this from the outside of his cage, he always wants a little safety zone. I was a little concerned that he was luring me in for a bite, but instead he let me give him a scratch and then offered me a step up. He hasn't done that in more than a week. He came over to the back of the sofa for head scratches and was completely relaxed and gentle like I seldom see. Then he asked to go back and he is gingerly walking the perimeter of the outside of his cage and play top and poking at things he has never taken an interest in. There is some kind of change taking place with him and it isn't a fear of one new toy but that did seem to be his original change catalyst for some grumpy behavior, but that may have just been a coincidence. I am not leaving the bottle on his cage all the time. I offer it to him with an almond balanced on the wide mouth opening and runs right over to get his almond that way lately. I really think he is turning a corner and getting comfortable and feeling safe enough to have an occasional outburst and my greatest hope is that his new development is related to feather regrowth that might, just maybe, hopefully lead to regaining his flight.

Yes, I am following up with firearms training, self defense and good ole common sense. My kids are joking about me being dangerous with a firearm, they actually think I am dangerous enough without one. We are still laughing daily about my husband's end of the fracas. He was telling me today that sometimes at that hour a woman comes through flinging the advertisement paper into the lawns. He said she is crazy going from one side of the street to the other haphazardly, so he stops and waits for her to pass. He said he was just about to initiate his run when he saw headlights, stepped back from the curb to let her pass when it was the policeman getting out and ordering him to stop and put his arms up. He said "can you imagine if I had started running?" Six patrol cars and dogs all worked up over a home invasion call, he said he has seen "COPS" and he would have been thrown to the ground and tasered. LOL. Then he said how glad he is that the man was in Will's house because they had a good look at him to release my husband. If it were just a peeper, he was standing there all in black and even wearing gloves. He said he was sure he was going to see the inside of a jail cell. In the house, my first line of defense is a can of hornet spray. It is easy to keep in every room, shoots 25 feet and will temporarily blind someone and if I were confronted and cornered, it is easier to go for the can than to get to "traditional" weapon.

Your description sounds like regurgitating. When we were new at this, our vet explained that the up and down pumping motions like when they are formula feeding is commonly associated with regurgitation while a side to side, head swinging motion is associated with vomiting.

Thanks for the support. Gilbert has continued down the path to grumpyville. This is the first time he has had such a sustained campaign of .... mmm, can't explain it. He has been trying to bite me through the bars and acts every bit like the little scoundrel. When I have been trying to feed him, the same as we always do, he tries to bite me while I am putting the food dishes into the rings. Since he can't reach me through the open food doors, he bites the bars, throws things at me and then when I give him the food he throws that too. It isn't like he seems threatened or scared, he is intentionally trying to intimidate me. This morning I just set the stainless steel cup of pellets on the top of the cage because he was too defensive for me to give it to him. I was planning to wait for him to climp to the top so I could more discretely just put the dish in the holder without the confrontation. He outwaited me and then had a sustained attack from the top of his cage, flinging pellets and having a general tantrum. He was wicked scary. I reached my hand inside his cage and pushed a foot toy towards him. In the heat of the moment he forgot to be petrified of his toys. He played tug of war with the leather knots. I held it from inside, he attempted to snatch it away. I suspect he was just trying to get me close enough to bite me through the bars, but he was engaging physically for the first time since he came here! I rolled the plastic bottle toward him with the almonds inside. He grabbed that and knocked out an almond and our play war was over, he took the spoils of his battle and calmed himself. I don't know what is happening here, but I am willing to go with it, protect my fingers and see where this takes us. He seems to have wanted an adversary to spar with. He seems quite satisfied with himself up there on his castle. I am a bit in awe of his newfound aggression. It is better than being curled into a ball, shivering with fear. He goes over and rolls the bottle, then turns to look to see if he is getting my attention. We may be at the very onset of his "play". I have never seen him play. He may ring a bell or chew a leather lace but this new thing seems a lot like play. Fearsome play, but a new arena for Gilbert.

Gilbert has been through some changes over the years that from what I can tell were not abusive, but change is really hard for him. I wonder what makes him pull himself in tight and withdraw from time to time. He is happy and chatty but doesn't want to get far from his cage. In the best of times we say "what would he be like if he had been with us from the beginning?' and in hard times we wonder what he is thinking. Sarah told us it was heartbreaking the way he calls out for Jim. I thought he may have just picked up from someone else the name of a person in the house, but he really does get quiet and comfortable then turns his head and mournfully asks "Jiiiiimmmm?" Those moments are far outweighed by his jokes, his cheerful sweet little voice saying "good morning sweetheart" and "night night, sweet dreams" or "bye bye, see ya later, come back soon". His language tells me he was treated kindly and spoken to gently. After a year of steady progress, he will still shake when he is outside the cage and any of us who know him best approach. He feels safest inside the cage. If we tell him night night, he dives right in and goes to his favorite spot for an almond. For the past few days, I have combined his empty bottle with some almonds. I shake an almond and lay it in the open bottle and offer it to him. I would like to say it was to get him more accustomed to seeing the bottle in the hopes he would progress to a place he is no longer afraid and maybe will play with it at some point. The truth is, this was the first nasty bite that didn't have a "tell" or a "reason". So I have given him a little distance at treat time so he can't get me again. We have still had our sweet moments, head scratches and treat almonds, just at bedtime is when I let him take it from the clear bottleneck. Then I leave the bottle open, with two or three almonds hoping to entice him to approach it. He has been occupying the cage top with the bottle near, but walks a wide berth around it and doesn't try to get the almonds even though he loves them and even though they are within easy reach. I see just a little improvement every day as he gets over whatever upset his apple cart. All I can say is that he has been grumpy but not scared. He has been Jeckyl and Hyde throughout the day. There are times when he rushes in to the back perch and rings his bell. That is a general alarm and signal something is troubling him. If I come through the room, or if I am sitting and I stand up, he runs to the bars, grasps them with a talon and begs for a scratch. He is sweet and allows long minutes of scratching his head and talking to him, but he only has wanted scratches if he has the bars between us, kind of a safety net. If he is on the cage door, the door is open, he will not let me scratch him directly, but if I get on the other side of the bars he will beg for scratches. He will sit on my knee or my shoulder for hours as long as I don't look directly at him or approach him. I do see him opening up some and he loves talking to everyone in the house and slowly he will become the bird he has the potential to be. I will love him with all my heart whether he becomes more relaxed and interactive or if he puts up a wall and stays to himself.