DavidH

HI Brett, Shanti is about the same age as Vince. I didn't care at first if he was M or F, but then we all got curious, especially when half the people were calling him "her" and half "him." There's something subconscious about knowing the gender that bonds you more to the bird, I think. We just psychologically process everyone with gender as a feature. Anyway, I'm glad we got him tested. The test only costs $20.

A tragedy struck a friend of the forum last week. In loving memory of a beautiful parrot: http://yamayogastudio.com/bio_ruben.html

Good ideas! I'm exploring how best to build one (or buy one) too. Thanks for sharing.

I got Shanti an expensive filing perch and put it in a prominent place, but he rarely gets on it and certainly doesn't use it to do his nails. I'm reluctant to clip them too.

What a character! Looks like lots of fun.

Beautiful! Thank you for your service to the parrot community.

>>I must say, that I DISAGREE with so much of what you say, but I won't debate it here with you. You are WRONG with many of your statements on your reply. Yes, there are some cases as you state in your blog, but it is not the "norm". >> That's fine, Talon. You're free to disagree all you want. But it doesn't really further the discussion just to type DISAGREE and WRONG in uppercase letters.

It could be an older bird, i.e, pre 1992 ban. OR, it could have slipped in under loopholes in the law ("ban" is too strong a word for the scope of the law), or -- more likely -- it could have been smuggled in. Parrot smuggling is a HUGE business (wildlife smuggling in general is the #3 smuggling problem after drugs and weapons). Most smuggled parrots now come from Latin America, but some Latin American countries are centers of the worldwide smuggling trade, so anything is possible.

Nice, Dan! Thanks.

Hi Dave, First of all, I just want to say that I appreciate very much all the time and wisdom you give to the forum, and I concede that you know infinitely more about Greys than I do. I don't dispute that for a moment. Where we disagree is on the ethics of raising, breeding, keeping parrots. Don't get me wrong there either. I love my parrot and am thrilled every day to live with him and care for him, but I am re-thinking the whole set of issues from the parrots' point of view, and probably the bottom line is that I think wild animals should live in the wild with their groups of conspecifics. I would say the same thing about chimpanzees or dolphins or elephants. None of these species should be owned or exploited by people or removed from their natural environments. I don't really see any villains in the breeding system, so I'm not blaming people -- just trying to develop a vision of how I'd like to see the future. I will go on to look at a couple of your specific comments. That's a good point and obviously true. But what I was saying is that a breeder can't possibly know what the future life of a bird is going to be like. No matter how well you screen a particular buyer (and no one among the breeders I spoke to and were ready to sell me a bird screened me for a nanosecond), you can't know what will happen five or ten years from now. For an animal with a 5-year lifespan you would have a better case, but we know that most birds will end up recycled down the road to unknowable owners. I HOPE my heirs will take good care of Shanti, but I honestly don't think that's terribly realistic. My daughters will marry, have families of their own, and --- s*** happens. If a parrot actually had rights, like a human being, to protection, it might be different. But, as you know, there are virtually no standards. Also true. Maybe we shouldn't have them as pets. Part of the way I justified getting one to myself is by saying, "He's already alive. If I don't buy him, someone else will. He might as well be with me where I will love him as long as I live than with the next random person who walks in the door with $1000 who will likely be a lot more clueless than I am." But that reasoning doesn't mean we should be breeding them in the first place. >> Your bird was taken away before his eyes were open? That's your responsibity to find out if that's proper and there's hundreds of guides telling you not to accept a bird that young.>> I think you misunderstood me here. I'm saying that the breeder took the bird from his parents basically at birth. He told me "his eyes were still closed" as a "feature" of good breeder technique, like "hand-feeding." I commend you for what you have done for Tee. I'm certainly not ready. Nor am I saying that people should take on that kind of commitment casually. I'm just saying that I think it's more ethical to take on a bird that already exists, as you did with Tee, than to bring a new one into the world. I think I failed in living up to this standard. I thought seriously about adopting, but at the end of the day, I took the easy route. I don't regret it because I love Shanti so much, but I think what you did with Tee or what others members here,( like Tycosmom and Bmustee )who have rescued birds, is better moral conduct than mine. ---------

Great pics of Tyco, Pat. Happy hatchday!

I'm no expert on diet or behavior, but I did want to thank you for adopting a 5-yr-old. Best of luck to you. You'll get a lot of great advice and wisdom from others with plenty of experience.

I adore my Grey and getting him was one of the best things I ever did in my long life. But here are a few of the facts we all should probably think about. I posted this blog entry today: "Top 10 Reasons for Never Buying a Parrot I’ve written a lot about the many joys of life with Shanti. Here, however, are a few of the hard truths—-the top ten—=that people should know before acquiring a parrot. 1. You don’t own a tropical rain forest. You can no more simulate a parrot’s native habitat in your home than you could simulate a European vacation by putting a human being in a dungeon on the moon and giving her a plastic replica of Big Ben and the Eiffel Tower. 2. You don’t socialize with hundreds of other parrots. A parrot in the wild spends its entire life in flock. It is a highly social animal and is never alone. Let me say that again, slowly: ne-ver. 3. Although the importation of wild parrots to the US and Europe is outlawed (a good thing), domestic breeding of parrots is widespread and millions of parrots are raised for sale as pets. Breeders profit from producing and distributing parrots even though they know the birds will inevitably end up in inadequate—if not horrific and abusive—conditions. 4. Breeder parrots have a horrible existence. They are confined for life, in isolation, often in darkness, with only one other bird. The pair is coerced into copulating and mass-producing as many offspring as possible. If they fail to perform optimally as baby-parrot factories, they are killed. 5. Any parrot you buy in the US or Europe will have been stolen at birth from its parents, who are devastated by the loss. 6. Any parrot you buy from a breeder will have been deprived of even minimal parental care and nurturing. Mine was taken from his parents before he opened his eyes. This practice is promoted to the public as “hand-feeding,” a technique that is supposed to produce happier, better-adjusted, less aggressive parrots. 7. Parrots don’t like living being locked-down indoors, dependent on the schedule, moods, whims, health and stability (or lack thereof) of their human companions. They like living in a cage about as much as you and I would. 8. The essence of a bird’s life is flight. Even if you refrain from clipping your bird’s wings and build her a beautiful aviary, you can never re-create the freedom of flight in her natural habitat. 9. Your captive parrot will never do what s/he was designed to do: find a lover, mate and raise babies. S/he will be celibate and alone from birth to death, which might be fifty years or more. No love, no sex, no parenting, no descendants. 10. In its fifty-year lifespan, your parrot is almost certain to pass through several human hands. Your best-laid plans for his/her welfare are nonenforceable by law and likely to be blithely violated by future “owners” of your parrot. Your parrot has no rights, no legal protection and will have to be extremely lucky to avoid abuse and abandonment. If you must get a parrot, take the high and hard road. Adopt one that already been abused, abandoned or rescued. If you’re like me and found out the truth too late, or knew it and went ahead anyway, love and cherish your parrot forever. "

Alex could do math up to sum of six. That's not merely memorizing numbers in order, it's actual math. For example, when Alex was shown a random set of triangles, squares, circles, etc. and asked "How many are circles?" he would get the right answer 80% of the time. Or he might be asked to count the red objects in a set of several colors. Sounds like Nicky may understand that paper with marks on it = BOOK. That's already an amazing level of abstraction. It might actually be MORE impressive if he DOESN'T understand what reading is. For example, you might expect him to get "food" as a concept because he's generalizing about all the things he eats when hungry. But "book" is not at all relevant to his psychology or physiology, so figuring anything out about it is much harder.

Congrats! Can't wait to see the pics.

>>You have to give Shanti a male name.>> We are keeping the name Shanti, thank you very much Shanti is one of those names that both boys and girls have. We wanted to name him in honor of peace and had thought previously of Shalom, Salaam and Paz (which is a girl's name in Spanish).

Congratulations to LuvParrots and to everyone joining in the fun. I have raised two daughters and was raised by a single mom, a grandmother and an older sister -- so having a male in the family will be different. On a serious note, I'm glad I got him sexed. I had no preference on male or female, but knowing one way or the other opens up his mysterious world just a little more -- gives you a little more insight into his or her being.

Shanti's DNA sexing results are in, and here they are: Congo African Grey -- Shanti ---Male Amazingly, in defiance of probability theory, you Grey Forum psychics voted MALE to the tune of 80%. The Forum winners are: Judygram, Char, Luvparrots, She, Sallas, Lyric, Tycos_Mom. Other winners include the Breeder (who said there was "no doubt" he was male), my wife, and one of my daughters (who also risked her psychic reputation on the guess). I also could throw in the vet, who was inclined to agree with the breeder because ("they can tell sometimes, by the shape and size"). So, to celebrate I am offering a $15 donation to the charity of your choice to the first person among the above winners to claim the prize in a reply to this message. As a bonus, I will raise it to $20 if you pick a bird charity. If you want the donation done in your real name with confirmation from the charity, send me a private message. Thanks for participating. This was fun!

Really good advise from both posters. I especially appreciated this line: "whenever you feel frustrated or nervous stop the session and try it another time." One of the things I LOVE about interacting with a parrot is that what works best is just walking away and dropping the emotional baggage instantly. In human-human relationships we're used to carrying the anger/resentment/bad vibes/frustration longer, but with a parrot you can (and must, if you want things to work well) drop all that right away. End on the high note, no matter what. It's quite liberating, really.

I got Shanti a new perch a couple of weeks ago -- one of those that supposedly helps them file their nails. The instructions said to put it higher than the old perch, which I did. Shanti wouldn't go near it for days. Then when I lowered it he was all over it.

>>I do hope you keep Mika but if it turns out you rehome him then please just make sure he is going to a loving home and that the people know how to properly care of a grey. >> Good point. I just heard a story about a family who found an abandoned Grey. It sounded like a great rescue. The bird was near starving and they brought him back to health. Problem was that once he turned out to be "difficult," they sold him to the highest bidder, no questions asked.

I just got "Of Parrots and People" by Mira Tweti. I'll post a thumbnail review of it here after I read it.

P.S. to everyone: I called the lab today and they received the sample this morning. Results --- ta da!!!! -- will be in tomorrow around 3 or 4 p.m. EST/USA. I will be posting here ASAP and the first winner who posts "I told you so, I'm psychic," wins the prize. So far 78% of voters (7 of 9) say male.

I've been thinking male, but that's probably because the breeder assured me -- no doubt about it! -- that he was male. That sort of programmed the whole family to address him as a male and talk about him as "he." We'll see.

Ok, you may be angry at me for this response, but I'll just throw it out there in the hope it might be useful to you: Consider for a moment -- you don't have to agree, just consider -- that it's not about the bird. I'm not a shrink, but a psychologist might suspect you are projecting a lot of your anxieties about your relationship with your husband ("he will hate me forever") and the totally life-transforming event that will be the birth of your child onto Mika. If I were you, I'd go with my husband for a couple of counseling sessions with a good marriage and family therapist. It's a good way to get all the issues on the table, whatever you decide: to keep the bird, rehome the bird, sell the bird, etc.