LisaM

As for the Kaytee food - if there is artificial coloring, I would steer clear. If corn is listed as the first ingredient, that is supposedly not good. If it has more supplement type ingredients than "real foods", that is something else to watch out for (these are the things my vet told me to look out for). Many people on this board use Harrison's. It's more difficult to get (usually vets or parrot specialty stores, not the larger Petco/Petsmart stores), but it's what most vets recommend. There are other higher quality brands also. Unfortunately, you usually can't get them at the regular pet stores either. When it comes to the nutrition of our birds though, I tend to accept more inconvenience/cost if I believe it is a better product. That said, some birds will not eat Harrison's or some of the others. If that's the case with yours (and I'd keep trying!), it may be better to give them one of the other more easily found pellets out there than not give them any at all. As Baxtersmom said, the best thing to do is run your choices by your vet and see what he/she thinks. Lisa

Basically, you can buy the same types of beans your breeder gets and just make it yourself. I make a gigantic batch and then freeze it into individual snack-size ziploc baggies. Here is a recipe I have made before (I didn't use exactly these ingredients...left out the white potato, kelp and alfalfa powder, but added lentils, adzuki beans, mung beans...). It can give you some ideas on the types of foods to try. I vary the ingredients every time I make it based on what I can find, etc. There is a 16-bean mixture that I'll use vs. buying a bunch of different kinds separately. I'll also use the dried mango/papaya when I can't get fresh. You can add peppers, other veggies, whatever! It's fun to be creative and experiment! (This mixture, by the way, was made for eclectus parros so it's heavier in fruit items). ********************************* Mike's Manna Mash (Recipe by Mike Burton, Land of Vos website) 1/2 cup dry black-eyed peas 1/2 cup dry pinto beans 1/2 cup dry kidney beans 1/2 cup dry split peas - a mix of green and yellow 1/2 cup dry garbanzo beans (chickpeas) 1/2 cup dry black beans 1/2 cup dry soy beans 1 cup dry great northern white beans 1/2 cup dry wheat berry grain 1/2 cup dry pearl barley grain 1 cup dry wild rice 3 medium sweet potatoes 4 medium white potatoes 3 pounds frozen corn 3 pounds frozen peas 3 pounds frozen carrots 3 pounds frozen green beans 1/2 pound fresh parsley 3 medium zucchini 4 large tomatoes 1/2 pound mustard greens 6 large bananas 6 medium apples 4 peeled oranges 1/2 cup cranberries, fresh or frozen 1 mango, peeled and pitted 2 papayas, peeled but seeds left 1 1/2 pounds green grapes 1/4 cup dried pumpkin seeds 1/4 cup sesame seeds 1/4 cup dry powdered kelp 1/4 cup alfalfa powder Rinse the beans, grains and rice. Soak overnight (at least 8 hours) in a large pot. In the morning add or remove water as needed to cover beans with about one inch of water. Boil beans for 10 minutes. Reduce heat, cover and simmer for 20 minutes more. By this time there should just be enough water left to keep beans moist. Scrub, quarter and slice potatoes into 1/8 inch pieces. Steam lightly, stirring every few minutes, and add to cooked beans. Add corn, peas, carrots and green beans to bean and potato mixture. This helps cool the mixture and thaw the frozen vegetables. Hand chop or lightly food process the next 11 ingredients (parsley, zucchini, tomatoes, mustard greens, bananas, apples, oranges, cranberries, mango, papayas and grapes). Don't process too finely; birds prefer chunky food. Add the remaining ingredients and mix thoroughly. Freeze in sandwich bags in daily serving portions. Defrost servings in refrigerator for 24 hours. Warm food by placing the bag in warm water.

I did some research awhile back looking to get my cages recoated. For the places I found it was going to be about as much to have it powdercoated as to buy a new cage. I needed them to do all the sandblasting and everything though also so it may be cheaper than you. I just looked up "powdercoating" in the local phone book/dexonline and started calling around. Lisa

I mix mine in with whatever I cook for their evening meal, or spread a little on a small piece of toast (occassionally mixed in with a dab of peanut butter), or fortunately if I just put a bit (1/4 tsp) on the edge of their food dishes mine will all eat it up.

I'm the same as Judy. I have both rope perches and rope boings. I just keep an eye on them and if they start getting frayed I replace them. All of mine are on their boings a LOT. Only one of my three parrots (male ekkie) goes through boings and even then I only have to replace it about 2-3 times per year. I think if you have perches that help keep the nails from getting super sharp that might help also. I have one "Safety Pumice Perches" in each cage which are smooth on the top and have the pumice stuff only on the sides where the nails hit. I haven't had to trim/file their nails since getting them! (can Google them and find several places that sell them now). Lisa

To be honest, I think a better way to "jump in with both feet" would be to rehome an older Grey first. Get some personal experience with them as an adult and as a "pet quality" parrot so that you can be a good resource to your customers. And the effort that should go into ensuring your customers are prepared and "forever" homes needs to be considered. I was going to start breeding lizards (Rankin Dragons) at one time until I realized that it would be too difficult for me to trust that the homes I was allowing the babies to go to were good enough. And that was for lizards with relatively minimal care in comparison to Greys (or any parrot). And being available after they go to a new home to the new owners...that's where having experience with them as a "pet" is needed and would make you a better breeder. Maybe you have a good plan and have thought through all of these things. Just know that people on this board have talked through issues with so many people who are at wit's end and looking to get rid of their birds, or have just rehomed a bird with lots of baggage. We are all going to be very cautious with anyone wanting to breed if we don't feel due diligence was done beforehand. If you have done this, please provide us some more information. Right now, to be completely honest, it doesn't sound like you are prepared enough to take this on. Our first loyalty will always be to what we believe is best for current and future Greys so that's why you may get some "advice" or comments that you may take offense to. That said, I think we'd all rather someone come here and ask questions and keep us updated on what is going on than just get upset and write off this forum, continue with their ill-prepared plan and have their future customers come here because their breeder can't help them. Just my two cents... Lisa

Oh Dopple - I'm happy that Leo ate and seemed to perk up for awhile. I'm very concerned though that he brought it back up and all. I would call an emergency avian vet to see if there is anything you can do until tomorrow. They may give you some quick advice over the phone. If you don't have one in your area, here is a number to one in St. Paul, MN...651-293-1800. I will keep my fingers crossed for Leo today. Please be sure to let us know as soon as you can how the appt goes tomorrow!

If you do a search on the forum for "clip or not", you will find numerous threads relating to this topic. (some will show up at the top of this thread under "Related Forum Topics:" also!) Does your friend have reasons for thinking it's "BAD"? Does he/she understand the steps you have taken to minimize risk? Does he/she have birds themself? What does your vet recommend? Just a few things to think about... To sum up the "consensus" on this board...it's a personal choice and you need to make the decision for what's best for you and your CAG. MANY people do not clip and have taken steps to ensure minimal risk and I'm sure there are some cases it has saved the bird's life by being able to get away from something dangerous. There are others who clip them for many various reasons. I personally have my birds' wings clipped in the spring when the kids start going in and out of our sliding glass doors all the time. Sole reason is because at 10 and 7 years old, the kids do sometimes get wrapped up in what they're doing and forget to close the door or keep it open so several of them an come in/go out. It's 100% about me feeling the risk of them flying out the doors is that great because that is the room they are in almost all the time when we're home. Usually the one clip will last all summer but based on the feathers molting, sometimes they need a second. In the wintertime when there's snow on the ground, the kids use a different door so the risk is greatly reduced. That's just what has worked in our household for now. I will re-evaluate as the kids get older or the situation changes. The ideal situation for me is to not have to ever clip them. I'm just not comfortable right now doing that. Good luck with your decision making! Oh, and I will save Judy and others the effort (this time) and request that you visit the Welcome room, tell us a little more about you and your CAG, and post some pictures if you can! :-)

A: The Bald Eagle Q: Which bird did Benjamin Franklin believe would have been a better choice (for our national bird)?

If I were you I would be thankful for this and not consider it a "problem". There is another thread from someone who can't get their Grey to stay on the cage when she wants him to. Maybe the natural caution on the floor has to do with the ground being a more dangerous place for them to be in the wild. Only small numbers of them will go to the ground to feed at a time while the majority stay in the trees, feeding there and watching out for predators. I don't think they spend much other time on the ground in the wild. Plus, there are many hazards near floor-level in our homes (cords, vents, woodwork, etc.) so it's best if they learn to stay on their cages/playstands, only coming down for supervised playtime when you're with them. If he doesn't like the floor even then, you can have playtime on your table or bed. So that's my two cents...I'm sure you'll hear from many others (including a plea to introduce yourself in the welcome room...with pictures if possible! Lisa

A: To grind and digest food. Q: What is the natural habitat of African Greys?

Thanks for understanding! I was trying to think of a way to cut mine into strips about 2" wide but lack the tools to do that and don't even know if it would work. I know my way around a cordless drill though so I'm going to give that a shot in the morning! Lisa

Hello Louise and Casper! I agree with the idea of opening the cage door and seeing if he'll come out on his own. I would put a comfy chair next to the cage and spend some time just sitting there reading something out loud in a nice, soft voice. You can periodically stop and talk to him, not looking directly at him but kind of turn your head a little to the side and look at him with soft eyes (kind of like flirting :laugh: ), and do some slow blinking, keeping your eyes closed for a second or two...that's supposed to be calming and a "trust building" behavior and I find it works well with all of mine if they're revved up about something. I wouldn't push him too fast though. As Miss Sandra wisely says, Parrot Time is Endless...things almost always take longer than we'd like. She also gave some great advice to another poster...to start a journal of your time so you can note and appreciate the small things as you progress in the relationship. good luck to you. And it will be well worth your time and patience! Keep posting and coming here to read through others' questions as you go! Lisa

Can you give a little more information like how long you've had him and what is happening just prior to him biting you?

I think having him stay at your mothers is a terrific idea! And you will have great peace-of-mind and be able to fully relax on vacation!

I would love to be able to get a harness on mine so I could bring them outside. They were all adults when I got them and have always politely declined the use of a harness...okay, not so politely. And again, I'm not sure if all birds would adapt to the whole clipped/not-clipped/clipped/not-clipped cycle. It's just what has been working for us for now. I like the fact that they're still getting some wing exercise periodically through the year though. Good luck to you. I'm sure your little one will be avoiding the walls soon! lisa

I'm so glad that Kim was able to come home today so he had someone he could trust 100% around to start his healing. What a scary incident. It's good to get the education on their response, but I'm sorry it had to happen the hard way! My heart goes out to little Dayo tonight. I wish him AND Kim get well soon! Lisa

That's great reassurance, isn't it! Congratulations! I, too, find this forum to be the best help with every-day questions and concerns. Nice job! :woohoo:

Firstly, I hope my comment on your "self-proclaiming" didn't come off as I doubted you...it wasn't that at all. It was more because you said "detail freak" instead of "extremely detail-oriented" or something else, which I found funny because I call myself that for some things. No offense intended for sure! :-) Secondly, I'm sorry to hear you are facing health issues personally that are to the point of having to modify your living space. That must be very difficult on top of all the other just normal daily pressures of life. I wish you the best and hope that it's something that can get better with your changes. Thirdly, back to your loose-droppings issue - how long ago did you stop feeding the new food that may have triggered the change in droppings? It may just take awhile to get whatever was in there out of his/her system? As for lighting...I have had a full-spectrum Ott-Lite on my birds for approx. 4 hours/day. When I was at the vet last week, she told me I should only have it on for 2 hours/day. The 4 hours was based on my other avian vet so I've changed it to 3 (split the difference) until my other vet comes back into town and then I'll verify with her. Here is one site that gives some more detailed information on lighting for birds (some of it very technical and WAY above my head): http://http://users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/index2.html. It's just one site with one viewpoint. I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure about the humidity question either. We have multiple aquariums in the home and have to have an air exchanger to keep condensation from forming on the windows in the wintertime (in MN). It's part of our furnace system though. I have no idea how it really works. . We have a higher humidity level in our house than most I think. I know they come from areas with mild temps and relatively high humidity, so if it's too dry it could cause issues. Does yours get frequent showers/misting or similar? If so, I don't know if the room humidity is of significance. Okay, so probably not that helpful, but it may give you some starting points. And again, please keep us updated on him/her! Lisa

I'm very happy that Kim is home and will keep my fingers crossed that everything "comes out" okay. (sorry, couldn't resist...). I'm not on this forum nearly as often as many of you but it quickly becomes very clear how much love there is here for both you and Kim (and Dayo, of course). I'm so glad to hear it was an "almost" incident with Dayo and look forward to reading about it.<br><br>Post edited by: LisaM, at: 2009/01/11 01:13

Oops - sorry HK. Forgot about the "once per 6 hours" Karma rule. :blush: I'll have to give yours later!

HK - that's great that she tore into the phone book already. Great idea! I was thinking of doing something similar but couldn't figure out how to hook it in there. Zipties...excellent solution. MJames - that rope is awesome! I spent a lot more than that on a rope just to not figure out how to get my birds to use it. So now it's just a really expensive stuffed animal holder in my daughter's room! If I build an outdoor aviary for summertime use I may end up taking it back and doing something with it in there. She'll probably be grown up and out of the house by the time I figure out how to do that and muster up the energy to actually get it done though! :-) Kudos to both of you (and some Karma to go with it!). Lisa

Hmmm...I don't know about the cage skirt. He may just learn to fly down, not climb down. Maybe others will have had experience with that. I know what you mean about it being hard to get upset with them...particularly when you know it's just because they want to be with you! :-) A more elaborate playstand may work, but if you're already taking him into whichever room you're in to be with you (on the t-stand), it may not solve the problem. Ours hardly ever play with the toys that are on their stands and almost always just sit on the top perch anyway (like a t-stand). I sometimes consider taking the other perches off because all they do is get pooped on anyway:S . They just want to be in the room with us and get some "ambient" attention (we talk to them, play the "blinking game", whistle to them, have them just sit on our arm/leg for a few minutes, etc.). hopefully some others will chime in with other ideas...good luck to you! Lisa

I hate the idea because I love to see my birds fly around the house. HOWEVER, I do have them clipped (equally on both wings, like Dave mentioned) in the summertime. A lighter clip that allows them to not crash land. The reason I have them clipped is because I have kids that are 10 and 7 and in the summertime they are in and out of the sliding glass doors all day long and I can't bear the thought of them flying out and away if the kids leave one open accidentally (or for too long). I do tend to let them grow their wings in more in the wintertime, and they do get into pretty good flight-mode before I get around to getting them clipped...usually just in the springtime. So, it's a very personal choice and for me it is all about their safety. In some houses, particularly if you don't have kids around who leave doors open, there is much less risk than in mine. As the kids get older, this may change. As for the question of them flying into walls...my female ekkie came to me not having flown in years (though she learned before her first clip, which is of utmost importance). It was only a matter of a couple of weeks when her flight feathers came in the first time that she was able to fly from her cage in our front room through the dining room, family room, our bedroom, the walk-thru closet and into the master bathroom to start pounding on the shower door with her beak one morning. So they become very agile fliers pretty quickly with practice. Good luck! Lisa P.S. My birds adapt to being flighted/non-flighted at different times of the year pretty easily. I don't know if that would be the case with every one.

Wow, what a story! That is my biggest fear, one shared by many here I'm sure. I tend to keep mine clipped at least in the summertime when we're going in and out of the sliding doors in the family room. And I know even a clipped parrot who is scared can get some air and distance so it's always on the mind. I'm so glad your story had a happy ending (and that I'm not the only one who would probably take 20 minutes to find a spade in my garage! :lol: Lisa