LisaM

Tari - you make me laugh! Karma to you. I feel that way about my THREE sometimes. Fortunately my daughter has taken a big interest in learning more and helping out...plus she's trying to prove responsibility to us! I don't know about the rest of you but I'm about ready to pack up and take a road trip to WI to MommaFawkes place! Can't wait for the "rest" of the pictures. I love them all so far!

This might get wordy (as do a lot of my posts...sorry!). I'll highlight my questions in bold so they don't get lost! So when I went to buy some stuff to sprout at a local Fresh and Natural Foods store, I saw this bread...it's called 7 Sprouted Grains and is made by a company called Food for Life. It is 100% flourless and certified organic grains. Ingredients: Sprouted what, filtered water, malted barley, sprouted rye, sprouted barley, sprouted oats, sprouted millet, sprouted corn, sprouted brown rice, fresh yeast, sea salt...that's it. I really like the fact that there are no preservatives that I can't pronounce! The bag has a statement that "our exclusive baking process preserves these valuable nutrients and retains the important natural fiber and bran" (which one of my questions was if baking would ruin the benefits of sprouted grains...which according to them it does not). None of my birds have shown a sensitivity to either wheat or corn but I'm aware allergies can develop. I was concerned about the sea salt but the sodium content of a slice of this bread is 80mg, which is less than half what the other one I was using had. Each bird gets only 1/3 piece of bread at a time mixed in with a bunch of other stuff and they don't consume the whole amount so they're probably getting about 10-15 mg sodium/day from this bread. Is this amount of sodium too much? Also, it has 4 grams of protein per slice and 3 grams of fiber. It does also have 1 gram of sugar though (which is similar to my other bread). Given the list of ingredients above, what would be supplying the sugar? I'm assuming it's a natural occurring sugar as there isn't anything implying it is added to the bread. Should I be looking for a sugar-free bread instead? Any other thoughts from folks about this bread? It is about twice as much as my other but if it's much better it's worth it. Thanks for any input.

Rae - Don't worry about your memory...i'm sure I post the same things over and over sometimes. Mine absolutely hate being sprayed with a sprayer and will try to attack it also (they haven't gone to the point of biting us though thankfully). So what I do is right at the end of their shower when they're soaking wet (or as wet as I can get them), I give them a "final rinse" with spraying the aloe. I do it from a distance of out of their beak reach. They don't seem to mind it though after their shower. I know it is now diluted a bit from the water that is on their feathers and skin, but I figured if it's the last thing I put on them it might sink in a bit. I agree with you on the biting...I wouldn't want to have that turn into habit either!

Not regularly, but periodically. Some things just aren't worth the hassle. If you had unlimited space and money, what bird would you want that you don't currently have in your family?

I love your posts! Don't go changin'...

The way I see it is it's right there on the wall. Assuming he left out of the front door he saw it on the way out so he gets to choose his poison, so to speak! He'll have no "ignorance of the law" defense! :-)

Judy - trust me that if I can figure it out, anyone can! It was actually really easy to do it. Rhonda - I actually didn't even get them into a photo program yet and put them together but I plan to. The computer I'm using right now doesn't have a photo program. I just put them into the photobucket to get the img code and then plugged them in separately into the signature block (which I did eventually find :blush: _ And yes, my posts tend to get a bit "wordy". I need to put "communicate clearly and concisely" on my personal development plan! Thanks again all!

LMG - isn't it an incredible feeling? I think it's even that much more than a dog (and I love dogs and have dogs so no offense to any dog-lovers!) and i think it's because you have to continuously and purposefully maintain the trusting relationship. It is way more special than I ever thought possible even after doing years of research before finally bringing one home (well, two and then three...)!

I'm guessing they get the same benefits from bathing as the rest of the parrots. He may not have preened right away. Mine always wait about an hour and then go to it. Also, as this was a new experience, it may not have registered with his natural instincts as it was so out of the norm for him. I would keep doing it and see if he picks it up in time.

Thanks Talon! I hadn't noticed it on the contest! :-) Meanwhile, I believe I have mastered the art of posting pictures so I should be able to do this in the future all by myself. Can't wait for the next contest now!

You said aloe wasn't the only thing in it...what else is in there? If it's not 100% aloe, I wouldn't probably use it.

Awesome Shamelessmuse - you have every right to be proud as heck of both of you! That is so great. Must be such a fantastic feeling! Yippee!

Ditto on the time and patience. Also, try just sitting right by the cage and reading or something quiet and keeping the door open..maybe having some treats in your lap visible to him for extra motivation. He may decide to come out of his cage to the position closest to you to come to you. That would be a huge step and don't expect it immediately or even the first few times...but it will likely eventually happen. If you have a comfortable chair that you can somehow get a way that he could actually leave the cage to go to you (one of those flexible rope perches might work), that might help also. Or, if he is on the floor, you could just lie on the floor with him (so you're not approaching from above like a predator) and see if he walks over to you to be "rescued" (some hate being on the floor). This would be a trust-building activity. Keep your approaches slow and I agree with Judy about not putting your fingers through the cage bars. Good luck and keep us posted. Let us know the things you're trying and I'm sure others will chime in with things that have worked (and haven't worked...we can learn as much from those as well!) for them.

Have you added Red Palm Oil to the diet? The poster of this thread is no longer a part of this forum, but it did appear for a time that it may have been helping: http://www.greyforums.net/forums/african-grey/47821-feather-plucking-and-red-palm-oil.html Also, the following is from a customer review on Amazon after buying some there: I bought this oil because I have a parrot with a feather plucking problem. I've been adding about half a teaspoonful daily to her soft food for about 3 months and the results are terrific. She's almost back to full feather and has not plucked a single pinfeather since we began adding it. This is a logical solution. Palm nuts are a part of most parrot's natural diet. It only makes sense that red palm oil contains nutrients that are otherwise missing in a caged bird's diet. Your mileage may vary since feather plucking is a complex mystery, but in my case it's been a miracle cure for our cantankerous eclectus. You mentioned sprays and you mentioned aloe...did that mean you've done the aloe juice spray? If so, I'm curious as to the frequency? Unfortunately (well, fortunately I guess), I don't have any personal experience with feather plucking. We may be taking in a parrotlet who plucks his chest bare though so I'm trying to learn everything I can as well about it!

What I found to help with the tearing up the newspaper on the floor of the playtop that was supposed to be catching droppings is to tear chunks of newspaper and crumple it into several balls and put them on the cage where they're doing the shredding. They went for the balls and left the "floor" pretty much intact. This worked for one of my birds. On the other hand, another one just chucked all the little balls of newspaper off the cage and then still proceeded to shred the "floor". :-) It's all good birdie fun. I think they need things to shred to be happy so maybe if you provide alternatives they may go for those also. Another idea is to not put newspaper on the top and just clean it periodically through the day. Or try paper towels instead (may be less likely to shred?). I would only do these options if indeed they have other things to shred though. Time will get your grey back trusting you. You might want to spend time just sitting and reading or something nearby the cage, keeping the door open and letting him come to you instead of you going to get him. Patience definitely pays off with these guys! Pushing things faster than they're ready can have longer-lasting detrimental effects. Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress.

That's awesome Imme! Can't wait to see the pictures. Do you have a name picked out yet? This is an amazing forum. I bought several books prior to becoming a "parront". To be honest though, I haven't cracked even one open since finding this site! The great thing about here is that books are written as though they are the expert and some of them just aren't. Also, they don't account for the fact that birds are such individuals and what works for some doesn't necessarily work for others. The books are great for basics though. This site is great for getting real-life feedback and varying opinions (which there are a few of here! :-)) and ideas. I like a variety of sources of info. I do still get Parrot Talk and Good Bird, Inc. monthly magazines and Companion Parrot Quarterly. Two decent all-parrot books are Companion Parrot Handbook and The Beak Book - both by Sally Blanchard. There is a thread in one of the forums here that lists peoples' recommended books on African Grey's in particular. Again, Congratulations! I hope the 6 weeks goes by quickly for you!

That is a very interesting article and point of view. It makes complete sense to me. It certainly makes me wonder if the breeders kept them longer and under the learning of an adult Grey if there would really be a reduction in the number of issues people have with their CAGs. Also, it would be good to learn some strategies that we human parronts could possibly use to help teach those things that may be missing. I have no idea how we would go about identifying what those things are and how to "teach" them, but it could change some of the things people do when they bring home just-weaned babies. Maybe even a study comparing how people raised their babies (variety of environmental aspects, communication frequency/style, physical handling frequency/style, feeding, etc.). Maybe even attempting some basic "trick" training early on would help establish the human as a "teacher" for the new baby and get that type of connection going. I guess part of the magic of parrots is that we don't know everything...but when it comes to ensuring that we are doing everything we can to make them happy and healthy it would be nice if we did! Thanks again for the article link. It gives some good "food for thought". Speaking of food, I'm surprised the family hasn't been complaining about dinner yet...it's almost 7pm here! Better get something whipped up...(after a few more posts...he he he).

"...with some even liking each other enough to preen and snuggle with each other." Only in my wildest fantasies in my house! LOL :-) Actually, that's okay with me because I have a male and female of the same species with the intention NOT to breed so if they don't want to be within a few feet of eachother that is fine by me...less work on my part! All of mine can be on separate playstands that are about 5 feet apart or in their cages that are all in the same room. I have one who feels she should have free reign of the house when her flight feathers come in (which seems to happen much faster than with the other two or she just is strong enough to compensage earlier). She will start to fly to another playstand and the bird on that stand will then fly down to the ground. Same for the cages. They don't fight but they puff up if they get too close. We never have them on the table or the counter at the same time. I don't expect mine will ever be sitting on the same playstand. We can hold them at the same time but don't as they tense up and it's clear they're keeping a watch on the other and are not comfortable with it. If you take your time it might be possible as many people have done it successfully, but then again it may not ever be the case that they can be that close together. I think like different people have different "comfort zones", so do different birds. Trying too hard to desensitize them may indeed stress some birds. I've always been more apt to just let them take it at their own pace. Good luck to you whichever road you choose!

Red-Tailed Amazon? Looks smaller maybe but that's my best guess.

Thanks for the link Tari! Some of these sound pretty good (and easy to make...bonus!). Our oven doesn't work right now either. I want a new one. Ours gave it a good try for almost 46 years (1962). (I'll bet the ovens they make these days won't last that long!)

Great idea...thanks LMG!

Great pics LMG! You can clearly see how they all adore you!

I'm with the others...the last one is a killer photo. You do fantastic work! Can't wait to see more.

Hey, a woman's gotta have options, right? This was great!

Wow...what a sad story. I'm so happy that Marley found a new home with you! I ran through the list of your non-human companions with my husband as he always claims we have a "zoo" of our own...your menagerie put that thought out of his head! I'm glad you are at home all day with them...I can't imagine how much time it takes to just keep them clean. I often don't feel like I can keep up with the ones I have! I'm sure you have it down to a system that runs like well-oiled machinery now though! Can't wait to see the pics! As you can tell we are huge picture buffs here! We love everyone's birds everywhere!