LisaM

Wow Rana - it sounds like you've been very busy and I'm sure all that helped keep your mind off of Koki's passing. It sounds like you've taken a lot of precautions with regards to something possibly being passed on to baby Koki. It's hard to say 100% without a necropsy being done. I know this is going to probably sound horrible, but maybe there's a chance you could still bring her in for one as it's been less than 24 hours and it's relatively cool there outside I think...the vet could probably advise you if it's possible or not and how to preserve her body. I'm very disappointed that the store where you got baby Koki didn't go through what/how she was eating there. It doesn't seem that they have the best interests of the birds they're selling in mind. I'm glad you found the forum here as there is such an enormous wealth of experience and wisdom available at almost any hour of the day or night. I'm glad you're taking her to the vet on Saturday. Is it the one in Dubai? I would definitely go to the best one you can find. I'm glad you have Faisal nearby as well. Keep asking questions and posting about her progress and how she's settling into your home. And pictures...we need pictures! Lisa

Hi JC - First and foremost - congrats on winning your custody battle! I have a few friends going through some nasty ones and it amazes me the hassle to go through and particularly for a father trying for sole custody. Second...congrats on your recent wedding! (Congrats to Amanda, too!) Now onto parrot issues: 1) I took a course, online actually, called Living and Learning with Parrots (http://www.behaviorworks.org/) and found it extremely helpful. It was all about reinforcing behaviors that you want and extinguishing those that you don't. (Now, I can't say that I have practiced it very well because I still have issues also, but not too bad). I did learn how I was unintentionally rewarding some behaviors that I didn't mean to! The class was free with a recommended small donation to The Gabriel Foundation. I don't know what the focus of the course is that you're going to take, but I hope it is as helpful as mine was. The teacher sounds like she has a lot of experience with a variety of parrots. 2) Bummer for Amanda. I don't think there's much you can do if you're the "chosen one". My Kenya will always choose to be with me if she can, but has gotten to the point where she will tolerate my husband but for shorter periods of time and she won't let him skritch her. 3) Screaming/squawking - maybe he recently heard a goose and thought it was cool? (Like your son picking up something from a friend at school). What I have found helpful is to try to identify what is triggering the scream and prevent it from starting in the first place. For my Max (male ekkie), it was that he was left in his cage too long after we got home without acknowledgement of his existence, and whenever I was cooking and didn't give him any. I found that if we just call out to the birds when we get home and whistle or something that keeps them quieter for awhile (they talk/whistle, and make other noises but not the loud obnoxious ones). I also keep fresh sprouted seeds/beans and will take them out of their cages and put them on their playstands before I start to make dinner. Then I give them some sprouts and maybe a bit of toast with peanut butter or applesauce or baby food on it. It almost always allows me to cook in relative peace. When we sit down to eat I'll usually drop a bit of veggie or something from what we're eating in their dish also. Every once in awhile I'll hold them or play with them first but I don't want to get into the routine so that if I don't do that they go nuts again. Just a few ideas. 4) I wouldn't worry about the talking. At only one, he's starting out just fine! 5) Biting...that's one I haven't had to deal with personally so hopefully someone else will come along with something better on this one. One thing that may help is holding a pot-holder or washcloth or something in your hand to get his attention on something else while you say "step up" and put your other hand in front of him. He may be distracted by the object and keep his focus on it vs. biting you. I read about this before and it seemed to work pretty well. As for biting while "cuddling"...if I stop skritching Kenya and she tries to give me a little peck (she's never bitten me hard), I'll immediately put her back in her cage...end of skritch time). The consequence is removed somewhat from the behavior (you're still giving the immediate attention of picking them up which may be rewarding somewhat in and of itself), but it has seemed to work. I also don't want her to start thinking that if she wants to go to her cage then all she has to do it bite me. Every time I put her in her cage I say "wanna go to bed" and now she'll say that when she wants to go there. 6) Patience. Things always seem to take longer than we'd hope or think they would. I think your little one might be coming out of "baby" stage and trying to push the boundaries and limits a bit. The best thing I can say is to be VERY consistent. Don't let him get away with something one day but not the next, etc. If it's bed time, keep at it and don't give him any chance to think that he can eek a few more minutes out of it by goofing around (my son does that also...maybe yours does too!). You're definitely right about trying to resolve this as soon as possible so it doesn't become a bad habit! It will be interesting to hear what others have to say on these issues... Keep posting on what you're trying and the results you're seeing. It might take some trial & error. One more thought...did anything change just before the screaming started (cage location, furniture, windows open/closed, new birdfeeder outside, new picture on the wall, new plant, etc.??? Yikes - I'm as long-winded as you! :silly: :blush: Lisa

Shannon - Karma to you for taking the feedback so well even though it was probably not what you wanted to hear! And I'm really glad you asked the question because some people have had disastrous results attempting this. Particularly with two species with such strong personalities. Few Greys would share their cages harmoniously and I imagine the same applies to Amazons. As with everything, there are probably exceptions out there. They are exactly that though...exceptions. Can't wait to see pics... Lisa

Oh Rana...I don't know what to say. I am so very, very sorry for your loss of Koki. I know based on our discussions that you really did everything you could to help her. You must be feeling so much sorrow today. Please know that I'm sending a big {{{hug}}} your way. Lisa

Yes, they train us well! :laugh:

Yes, I believe the colored pellets are better than none at all. I think there's just a higher likelyhood of sensitivities to the colorant. I also heard you should try to find a pellet that doesn't have corn/wheat as it's first couple of ingredients. But if they're eating something, that's good. My Kenya was on the PB AG species specific pellet when I got her. It took a LLLOOOONNNNGGG time to get her to eat anything other than those and seeds. I started by soaking Harrison's in apple juice until it got soft and mushy and then going on from there... I think overall it sounds like you have her on a pretty healthy diet though so hopefully this will be her only one! I think the removal of the boxes will help...particularly during the hormonal/breeding seasons. Maybe she can have them at other times though? Yeah, I have bought a lot of foods to try that end up being wild bird/squirrel food as mine won't touch it...guess that's just another "day in the life" of having parrots in our lives!

Dave - I learn something more from every one of your posts. Now I know why I actually like the "feel" of Kenya's dander. It's kind of silky. Also explains why no matter how wet I get her skin/downy feathers, she looks dry when I get her out of the shower. Thanks.

Hey, you're talking to the Queen of Overreacting here so I may not be a good "sanity check". I call my vet about a lot of things (yeah, I'm one of "those" moms). Maybe you can fax the pictures to the vet and see if it's something he/she feels needs to be addressed now (vs at the next appt in 8 months or so).

That's great! What a graceful beauty!!! Fantastic picture. Guess she works hard so she deserves her downtime too...I'm glad she shares the hammock with you though. Sounds like just a great dog all-around. Maybe your wife can come up with some parrot-agility equipment and we can see Koigi going through the paces in a few years (I'm still working on trying to get mine to put a wiffle ball through a small hoop...she still just thinks it's more fun to toss it off the table).

When was your last vet visit? It doesn't look like it's seriously out of whack (I was expecting worse), but it's probably easier to get it corrected at this stage, particularly if you think it might be getting worse. It definitely doesn't look like some of the scissor-beak pictures I've seen. Dave (007) has probably seen the most birds so may have some more knowledge on if this is within the boundaries of "normal" or not.

Just checked out your flickr pics. I can't believe she doesn't want to spend as much time in that shower as possible! Heck, I want to come over and use it right now!!! Awesome dogs, cool tats and gorgeous daughter, too! Lisa

Maybe he could move into the garage? Just kidding. I don't know about those particular air filters but I have heard a lot of people find them helpful. I don't think the steaming is going to help much unless you can tell that it dampens her quite a bit. Even then I think it would still just be getting the top level of feathers wet though. My CAG doesn't particularly like showers, but I give them to her anyway (she has developed a "tolerance" through the past 2.5 years). I make sure to get the water under the feathers (not easy as it wants to just roll right off). I use a hand-held on light spray (not sharp spray though) and actually hold it under her and it goes up and then falls more gently on her. Then I spray her back from various directions to try to move the feathers and get some water down to the downy feathers. Some others use a spray bottle with success. Also, spraying with 100% aloe juice might help. I know it helps their skin but I don't know if it does anything from a dust/dander perspective. The only time I find dust on my clothes is if I'm skritching her, otherwise she doesn't leave much dust in her path either. Boy, it sounds like you keep your house and her cage pretty clean (better than I do!) so I don't know if there's much else you can do there other than try the filter and the showers. Maybe others have allergies and some more ideas... Lisa

Thanks! I'm shocked that it's lasted as long as it has and keeps their attention as much as it does (none of my birds are big at playing with toys). It was about $3.50 at PetSmart.

She looks fantastic! I am still amazed by that lapdog of yours though :laugh: . I love that last picture. Her feathers look like their in great condition! You're clearly a great parrot daddy!

I think that's a good, well-informed decision David! I hope you find that you are able to provide a safe enough environment to not have to ever clip. Or maybe you'll have a bird that is better trained than ours (and humans, too ). Thanks again for the compliment on the room :blush: . And about ceiling fans...ours are NEVER on when the birds are out of their cages, flighted or not. Actually, we use them so rarely that we sometimes refer to them as our "ceiling art". :lol: Lisa

Does your vet recommend you give additional vitamins to your Grey? I know it's another one of those debatable topics (some do, some don't). My vet doesn't recommend them unless the bird will only eat certain things and doesn't get a variety of foods through it's regular diet. I'm sure there's disagreement among vets though also! Lisa

Hey a bonus for the AviClean...one of the reviews says it works great on red wine spills also! :woohoo:

Good morning Rana - If you happen to check this before heading out to work/vet (which I think is in about 30 minutes for you), please let us know how Koki is doing this morning. and most of all... Good Luck at the vet! Lisa

I have, and periodically use (for cooking primarily), apple cider vinegar ...but mine doesn't say Mother anywhere on it. It's Heinz brand though (the only one I found at my store). Maybe that is a specific brand. Or maybe it has something to do with being organic or not. Hmmm...something to investigate! :-)

Thanks guys. I make little mohawks on his head when he gets out. I try to get a picture before he shakes his head but I'm not quick enough. My female gets soaked like this also and her feathers, when wet, photograph green for some reason so she looks like a really oddly colored ekkie! It's amazing that I can have Kenya in the shower for 30 minutes with water on her the whole time and she still looks dry when I take her out! I've yet to see a really "wet" Grey! (Plus, she doesn't enjoy them nearly as much as the other two who fight over who gets to go first!).

Tinker Bell is sweet. And "Tink" is a cute nickname. Your granddaughter would probably think it a great idea also! Plus, you could hardly get upset with something named TinkerBell (like if she starts shredding the new curtains, lands in the middle of the french apple pie you made just for special guests, etc.). I think the name said in an angry voice would actually sound pretty funny and would probably diffuse the anger quite quickly!

Mine don't preen immediately after the shower, but about two hours later they do some pretty vigorous preening (more vigorous than normal). But they're not barbing the feathers or plucking them, just getting them in good order. I have a boy ekkie that barbs one side of some of his feathers but he doesn't do that as part of his post-shower preening. I think it can take at least a week to see a dietary change impact, but your vet can probably give you a better answer on that. I'm glad you're getting in on Thursday even if it's "just in case". Actually, it would kind of be nice if it is something physical that can be easily treated! These behavioral things are so hard to figure out, particularly if you can't narrow down the root of the issue. Good luck and keep us posted. Maybe others have better ideas who have dealt with more feather destructive behaviors.

It won't let me vote for #5 either? But I don't think it registered my vote on any of them? Lisa

I hear ya Caroline! My three are the same way. We have had to come up with our own version of parrot-juggling! (no, rest assured all this has nothing to do with tossing them in the air over each other!). And I think they know if anyone gets more mommy-time than anyone else. :-)

'Mother'?