Acappella

Downright angelic! Dorian would have tossed that plate to the floor, food and all, in seconds. Welcome to the forum, and there are no stupid questions

Yep, eating in front of them is magic. We call it the bird diet here. Because they can only eat healthy food, you have to start to eat healthy, or hide in a closet when eating something they can't have!

Yay, another one. I also have a non-chewer. Dorians' first owner only supplied acrylic toys, never any wood or paper, and he came to me not knowing that greys were supposed to chew stuff. It took him three years before he destroyed his first toy, and even then, it was more the leather that held the toy together that he chewed than the wood. I was also worried about his beak, but he figured things out himself. He has a small concrete perch in his cage (took me weeks to get him to accept it, but that's another story). He never perches on it, as you could guess if you saw the state of my poor hands, but he will hang from the bars of his cage and 'file' his beak down. Also, as I got to know him I found out what HE loves, and now work around that to make toys more appealing. Dorian loves bells, paper, and bundles of Supreme cotton rope, so if I make a toy with these materials and add in a few pieces of soft wood, the wood sometimes gets a nibble. If your bird isn't used to toys, try making them in front of him, and playing with them in front of him. Make a big fuss about how much fun you're having (make sure there are no family members lurking around with video cameras!) Cheapest toy ever is a roll of adding machine paper tied to the side of the cage. On the plus side, a non-chewer is much cheaper to live with than a normal grey. Just think, no moaning about ruined door and window frames, no chewed furniture, perches last forever! Have fun teaching Chachi how to be a grey.

It's important you try not to take these changes personally. Think of a human baby. They also go through phases, all of a sudden only wanting one parent, suddenly shy, etc . . . If he won't come out of the cage for you, try what Dave suggested and try stepping him up once he's outside the cage. If you ask him for a step-up and he makes it clear he's going to bite, just tell him 'ok' and walk away. Then do something REALLY interesting in his view, like play with a toy, for a good while, at least a few minutes. Then go back to the cage and ask him again if he'd like to step-up. If you get the same reaction, again, don't show upset, just walk away and go on with whatevery you're doing. This really worked with my Dorian, but it took a while. Eventually his desire to be part of his flocks' activities got the better of him and he decided it was better to leave his cage and come with me than be left behind. It will get better, promise. <3

Great parronting. Glad he's feeling better.

Well, the good news is that you have a perfectly normal grey. Of course, the bad news is that you have a perfectly normal 2-year-old grey!

Thank you for re-homing Wallace. Any pre-owned bird is going to come with some baggage, but it sounds as if you're off to a good start. One thing I've found that really helps when it comes to 'shaping' my Dorians' behaviour is to keep in mind that he is a flock animal, with the mentality of a 3 - 5 year old human child. Example: The best way to interest him in a new food is to let him see me eating and enjoying it. Take a few bites, and make a fuss about how good it is, then offer a piece to him. If he doesn't take it right away, say 'ok' and pop it in your mouth. Do this a few times and odds are his curiousity will get the better of him. (really works if you offer it to another 'flock' member and he sees them eating it) Of course, this means you have to keep a portion of your plate bird friendly with no salt, sauces etc... on it. Also means it you're eating something he can't have, you may find yourself sneaking out of sight to indulge .

A rescue is a long slow road, but it's sooooooooo worth it, and there are many kind, knowledgeable and supportive people here to help you and your new flock member over the bumps in the road. I vote yes on the name change. When you're deciding on where to put the cage, put it somewhere he can watch the going's on of the household but not feel vulnerable. Against at least one wall is always a good idea. Also, somewhere he can get 10-12 hours of quiet and dark You won't want to be forcing a step-up to move him from one cage to a separate sleep cage. If you're going to be leaving him alone while you're at work, where will the dogs be? If he's not used to dogs you don't want them to do something that will make him scared of them i.e.barking loudly, while you're not there to reassure him. Leave some soothing music on playing quietly and let him have a few hours to look around and start to feel safe. I understand your eagerness to jump right into training so he can truly participate in your family life, but if you attempt to rush him you run the risk of making him feel like you are trying to impose your will on him the way his current owners do, even though your heart and motives are pure. How fast he progresses is basically down to how resilient his personality is. To give you an idea, my Dorian lived in a pet store for four years before he adopted me. Some birds do ok in that environment but not, traditionally greys, and especially not Dorian. He is way off on the fearful end of the personality scale and the contant coming and going in the store with people poking at him turned a bird who was fearful by nature into a huge chicken, extremely cage defensive and scared of everything, especially hands. It took months of me leaving the cage door open every day before he so much as poked his head outside the door. It took more than two years before he would step onto my hand and let me carry him to another room. Just in the last 6 months, after I'd had him 3 1/2 years, he's started sitting on a play stand in my room or wanting to come with me when I leave the room. I'm not saying this will be your story. I believe Dorian is an extremely cautious personality even for a grey. I've had my times of tears when I've been frustrated because all I was ever trying to do was make his life better. I'm sure you'll have those moments too. Whenever you do, just remember seeing him being hit, and know that even if it takes him a while to realize it, Mr. Grey has indeed hit the birdie jackpot.

Karen, my colleague got back to me with a name of a person who is a CPO-CD (Certified Personal Organizer-Chronic Disorganization) and has taken part in NSGCD (National Study Group Chronic Disorganization) studies. Her name is Sandra Lee Selden-Pawliszyn. Laureen suggested simply google-ing (pretty sure that's not a word) her name for more info, if you want to pass on the info. Marguerite

Hey, I was wondering if there was any update on this situation?

Glad you've decided to let Timmy have some control over his own life. Greys need it. The differences between a flock mentality and that of a pack animal like a dog are so huge. The other huge difference of course is life-span. If you told a dog owner that it could take 2 years to make progress on a certain behavioural issue in hand, they'd look at you like a crazy person, but with a bird that live for decades, 2 years is the blink of an eye. I'm going to post a long update about my Dorian soon, but just to give you an idea of our journey, it took two years of me sitting in his room watching a 10" tv, instead of my comfy living room, before I could take him from room to room, and another year before he would get on the play stand I had in the other room. It was finally his decision that he would rather venture outside of his comfort zone (he came to me TOTALLY cage-bound) and be with me, than have me leave him behind in his room as I worked around the house. Have fun getting to know your new flock-mate!

Is there a rescue you could volunteer at and get your Macaw fix? Maybe while there you would meet a personality that could fit in with your life with Rambo. One good thing about a rescue, their personality is established, so you'd know if it likes other birds, other people, etc...

One thing is virtually certain with a hoarder. If outside persons go in and clear out the space, without the persons' involvement, the hoarder will re-create the scenario as fast as he/she can. The loss of possesions and the re-gained open space actually creates anxiety in a hoarder, and because the anxiety feels unbearable they will do everything they can to fill up their space again. They are self-medicating, as surely as an alcoholic or drug addict is. We know now that just telling an alcoholic to stop drinking and taking away the booze won't cure alcoholism. Just removing the birds from this home won't cure this problem. Animal hoarders are even harder because they are actually able to tell themselves they're doing a good thing. With love and patience you have to gently and slowly show them the error in their thinking. Anything you do that creates anxiety will only cause the hoarder to hold on to their things tighter.

There are lots of other things you can do to make the whole space less noise conductive. You said the room your husband works in is two rooms away from where the cage is. Like you said, hang a good heavy door in the office, and in the other doorway hang some lined drapery panels. Also, an area rug, plants, cushions, any other soft furnishings, in the office will dampen sound. You can also hang drapes or a decorative quilt on the wall in the main room. Anything that will stop sound from bouncing around the room. If you decide to keep the office in the separate building you may be able to do it pretty cost-effectively. I know here in Canada there are huge incentives to insulate and make building more energy-efficient. If you turn that out-building into his full-time office, any improvements you make can be partially written-off against his income. The hardest thing to change is the mental part. He has decided that your little grey buddies' sound bothers him, so the sound bothers him. You love it, so it doesn't bother you. Example. A friend from the city recently came up here for the night. He lives in the middle of down-town Toronto, with sirens, streetcars, traffic, and all the sounds of a big city, and sleeps through it. What kept him awake here? Crickets! And here some people pay money for sleep machines or CD's with crickets sounds on them, because they've decided they find that sound soothing. Your birds isn't any louder to you than he is to your husband, (unless he has off-the-chart hearing). What makes the difference? Perception! As William Shakespeare said "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

I work as a professional organizer here in Ontario, and one of my colleagues has the specialized training to deal with hoarders. I'll ask her if she has any contacts near Reno. I know birds often are classified as exotics, with much looser regulations than have gotten passed for cats and dogs. The best way to approach it may be by looking at the overall health picture for the human involved, looking at the air quality etc... Due to tv shows, more people are now aware that hoarding is a mental disorder that is very resistant to treatment. The person has to want to get help. With animal hoarders it's even harder because they are, usually, very kind hearted persons who genuinely feel they are helping the animals they hoard, even when it is obvious to those of us outside the disorder that the animals are suffering. First, I would say don't try to take this on yourself, you will quickly become exhausted and angry at the hoarder. When they are approached with anger and judgement they will shut down and retreat. The best approach would be to appeal to her love of the animals. Get some publicity for the situation, asking people to help her however they can to care for her animals. All publicity should be from the angle of helping a kind-hearted person who is overwhelmed. Maybe start a fund for vet care, ask for cage donations, food donations, even voluteers who could come into her home during the week to clean cages and give some out-of-cage time for the birds (much like human parents who have multiples often have volunteers coming into their home to help with laundry, feeding, cleaning etc...) Do Not threaten her, shame her, threaten to take them away. Things will only change once she trusts the people who are intervening. This will take a lot of deep calming breathing on the part of everyone because more than likely you'll want to scream "how can you do this, can't you see they're suffering". Remember this, she really really truly can't. If you can prove to her that the living conditions are the cause of health problems, both for her and the birds (it will carry more weight if you can prove the birds are sick - most hoarders are indifferent about their own hoarding-related health issues), that may motivate her to get some of them to better living conditions. Maybe take her to a place where birds are being cared for in ideal conditions, and let her see the contrast between that and the conditions her birds are living in, but again, not with a spirit of judgement. She has to open her own eyes, no one can do it for her. See if you can get some help from the avian rescue you mentioned. They may be able to help organize a campaign amoung their supporters to improve the living conditions for these poor birds. This kind of story makes my heart hurt, not only for the animals, but for the hoarder, because she is trapped in her own mind just as surely as these birds are trapped in their cages.

The title of your thread just made me so happy. I've wondered how your Dorian was doing. Good work figuring out what he was trying to tell you. My Dorian says 'hi'.

OK, for a Canadian, I guess I'm just culturally confused. I hear Football, I think Soccer. My first thought? 14 - 0 , someone just got their butts handed to them. Lilly, and the pups, are cute, and obviously spoiled, as they should be.

Yeah, it's a spray-on coating done in the factory, I forget what it's called. Actually alot like the finish coat on a car - you'll never copy it exactly. If it really bothers you, it looks like a standard door. You could always buy a replacement at a home improvement store. Watch that Babalu doesn't make a habit of it, the paint finish can't be good for him.

Quick, a broom, some fine sandpaper and some white paint, and he'll never notice! lol

Hey, what's with the 'eh', eh? Are you a secret Canadian? lol Opps, I think I just hijacked a thread!

Keep the good news coming. Kiss kiss kisses baby boy.

I'm also really lucky with Dorian. He seems to know the mornings when I'm feeling really rough, and has always let me sleep in when I need to, as long as I go to him as soon as I wake up. He'll even let me nap during the day without making a sound, even if he's on a playstand right beside me. I always make sure to thank him and give him a 'good boy' treat when I'm up and around.

Msg to Kate : You're Awesome!!!!! Seriously, many people would have 'washed their hands' of your little grey stinker. Major points for realizing that with these birds it's a marathon, not a sprint. We're always here to lend support and advice.

You also have an air cleaner going don't you? From your descriptions I think you're a Very neat guy. Some people have become real germaphobes, with the obsession with anti-bacterial everything. We need some exposure to stay healthy with healthy immume systems. IMO, it's your friend who has a problem (although telling him this probably wouldn't help the situation) I guess he's now an 'outside the house' friend! <3

You can really tell how much you interact with your fids, and that you identify objects and actions while you're using them. Thats a smart little boy you have.