Acappella

Patience is so important with these guys. The second summer I had Dorian we'd experienced a couple of setbacks and I was getting upset because I wanted so much to enlarge his world but, although he clearly loved me, he was still a very timid guy. I had an animal behaviourist come in and she watched my behaviour as much as, if not more than, his. One piece of advice she gave me was to approach him as if he was already the bird I wanted him to be. What that meant was that I always approached him happy and relaxed with no 'agenda', and gratefully accepted whatever he was willing to give to me in that moment. That, and the advice I got here about ending every interaction on a positive note, made the difference for us. Let her chill and observe, and have faith in the basic curiosity of a grey, and their need to be social and part of a flock. Oh, and train the humans around her to give a little audible warning before entering her space. It will make her environment feel more predictable and safer. You're doing great, and we're all here to cheer you on.

I love my Shark portable steamer. I'll clean Dorian's playstand with it at night when he's in his cage, and visa-versa. The heat and the steam are great at liquifying dried on mess, and the force of the steam helps blow dirt and seed from tight crevaces. That, and the high heat is disinfecting at the same time.

You've gotten some great toy suggestions. I'm wondering, are you reinforcing her behaviour? When she is hanging upside down from your clothes, are you stopping everything and playing with her? Making big fun noises and a big fuss? It might be really hard, but you might have to train yourself not to reward her, but instead put her infront of a play gym like others have suggested with all the elements she's attracted to, and reward the HECK out of her there! Oh, and be prepared to do it 1,000 times

Thanks to to education I got here, I always tried to warn Dorian before a starting a loud noise, or carrying something into the room like a big box, since he was extremly high-stung and would startle off his perch and fly into something. Now he's much more confident and looks to me for assurance if something scares him. I think having a baby you'll have the opportunity of exposing her to a whole world of experiences and things while she's young. As for candles, I just removed them all. Get a few of the good quality LED faux candles (the cheap ones don't fool anyone). I don't use air fresheners at all, in any form, because I'm actually very sensitive to them. Just like the fumes from teflon pans, I figure if they're not good for our birds, they're not good for us. High marks for you because of the research you're doing before bringing your fid home. Sounds like you're going to be a great parront!

The others have given you great advice. Right now you can't force her to change her behaviour. You can only change the behaviour of the people around her. I brought home a totally cage-bound bird in the fall of 2007. Once I got him home and inside his familiar cage, I let him hang out for a couple of weeks before I even started leaving his cage door open at all, even a little bit. Just having the door open a few inches would make him shake, even if I wasn't approaching him. I set up a tv and a comfy chair beside his cage and we just hung out together for weeks. I actually remember the first time he got brave enough to stick his head out of the cage himself. I was sitting on the floor in front of his cage and he peeked out to see what I was doing. I didn't pounce on him and try to force a physical interation, I just made a big deal about how brave he was, and let him do his own thing. A couple of months later he started to come out and wander around on the outside of his cage. Then one day I was sitting on the floor again and he jumped down and walked over to me. Thanks to the great advice I got here, I knew I wanted him to feel like he was safe, so I asked him if he wanted to go back and he stepped up for me and I put him back inside. That was a key moment in our relationship because he seemed to figure out that I was letting him set the pace and not pushing him to do things he wasn't ready to do. After that he became increasingly curious about the world outside his cage. I tried to make sure I always returned him to his safe zone while being outside was still a positive experience. (You know the old saying "always leave them wanting more") It took almost two years before he would let me take him on my hand into another room. He only started stepping up for me from inside his cage in the last five months. It was sometimes hard logging on here and seeing other members playing with their birds and talking about having a bird on their shoulder while they moved around their house, but I kept reminding myself that a year, or two, or four, is no time at all when you're dealing with such a long-lived companion. Your little girl is so scared right now, she's like a child who has been locked in the dark all her life and is afraid of the light. It sounds like her life has taught her that humans are not to be trusted, and that she has no control over her days. Give her the time and space she needs to look around her and she'll start to see that now she's in a safe place. The trust you earn now is the foundation you'll need to build your relationship going forward. Coming from one who has walked the long and slow road with a grey I can tell you, it's sooo worth it. Remember, we're here to cheer you on.

When Dorian starts to regurg for me I just say "no thanks, I don't want your food" and walk away for a couple of secs. Right now it seems like everytime I approach him he's doing it. Can't even have our nite nite scratches right now.

I gotta ask. Is your daughter specifically into Firefly, or is she a Whedonite?

You're really lucky that they like each other. Love the pictures, especially the one of them touching beaks.

Sorry, I'm another person on the 'not a good idea' train. I just don't think most parrots do well in this type of setting, and i think greys are specifically not well suited for this type of environment. You would have to train every person in the office how to interact with the bird, and not all people are willing to adjust their behaviour for an animal. Because a bird is a flock animal it doesn't respond well to the 'dominace' type of animal training that most people who have had mostly dogs, or even cats, believe in. All it takes is one person who isn't on board with the program to create a nervous, distrustful bird. Then the bird is labelled a problem and is isolated, given no out of cage time, which in turn makes it behave (in the eyes of humans) worse. Did you know that greys, and other birds, produce a Huge amount of dust, in addition to feathers, that flies everywhere, and that many people are allergic to this dust the same way people are allergic to animal dander. What if someone at your job is bird phobic, or you want to hire someone who is? Having had many different people in and out of the house over the past few months, I have to warn you that mnay people have this fear. Also, would the company that clean your office agree not to use industrial cleaners in the birds environment? Some janitorial companies are starting to use more environmentally friendly cleaners, but most are still using the strong scented, noxious chemically based cleaners that can quickly cause breathing problems in a bird if inhaled, or other health issues if they 'beak' a surface or office item that still has chemical cleaner residue on it. Remember, there's a good reason they used canaries in mines to warn people the air was becoming toxic! Please don't think we're just a group of over-anxious hyper bird people here. These are very real concerns. After all, this is a place where many owners end up asking questions after things have gone wrong. We've seen it all! Really glad you'e taking the time out to research things. I think pets in the workplace can be a great idea, but maybe a policy allowing people to bring their own pets in, or an animal that is less high-maintenance would be the way to go.

Just like Thenabrd said, watch for stray threads because the dog toys are not made from bird-safe rope like supreme and tend to fray badly. Before Dorian was my bird, when he was still in the store, he got a talon caught in a swing that wasn't kept trimmed and he let out a cry that I hope I never hear again! Luckily I was there for the rescue.

That's a treat stick without a treat attached. No wonder birdey is upset

Glad to hear things went well. I agree that the key is how you are. If the people they trust and love in the flock are happy and calm, they will be. All Dorian needs when something startles him is to hear "it's ok luv" from me and he carries on with his day.

Yep, get a big bell, or two, or three, that you like the sound of, 'cause you'll be hearing it alot. Also, take a look in the homemade toys forum for some great cheap ideas. Put a bell on the bottom of a swinging perch like a birdy 'boing'. Do a search here on 'foraging'. Lots of ways to keep a busy bird out of your hair, literally!

I do sort of giggle when a new parront is here wondering why their bird isn't stepping up or letting them cuddle when the bird has only been theirs for a couple weeks or months. When I preach patience, you know I practice what I preach! And when I say It Is So Worth It!!!!!!

Well, I've been popping in and out of forums for the past while, and thought it was time for a proper Dorian and his slave update. Just quickly for those who don't know, I've been missing because my dad was sent home to me as a palliative patient last spring and I was his 24/7 caregiver until his death on Oct. 8 2011. Unfortunately, my brother launched straight into an estate dispute (the funeral was on the 13th, and he was here on the 15th wanting to sell the house), but that's a story for the off-topic forum. Dorian has been a champ. Dad was on the main floor of the house, and Dorian and I usually hang out in the basement (it has lots of light, don't worry). Well, dad was calling me upstairs 4-5 times an hour, and my knees were starting to give way - upstairs to dad, downstairs to Dorian, upstairs to dad, repeat to infinity... :eek: So I built Dorian a fabulous, if I do say so myself, playstand and told him we were going to spend our days above ground. Now, the Dorian that I brought home in 2007 would have taken a year to get close to the playstand, but he's so much braver and more confident now, he just stepped right onto it. What I believe helped was that I built it from scratch right in front of him, and I built it out of materials he already has in and around his cage. Plus he has a top-o-the-line stainless steel bell on it, and I know he can't resist a big, noisy bell. When I first put it together upstairs dad was less than enthusiastic, first because it is huge, and second because Dorian was really fast figuring out how to hurl seeds and other rejected foodstuffs past the confines of the so-called tray at the base, but as long as I kept things clean, all of the bossy males in my home settled down (except Jac the cat, who still seems to hope one day he'll wake up and Dorian will have vanished:p). I attached a holder for big rolls of adding machine paper, and one of the first days I had the stand upstairs one of dads friends came to visit and told us when he pulled into the driveway he thought it was a big roll of toilet paper in the middle of the living room!!! When I went outside to take a look, that's exactly what it looked like! These days upstairs led to a big breakthrough with Dorian. He was so afraid of hands when I brought him home that it took almost two years before he first stepped onto my hand and let me move him to other rooms in the house. The first catch was this - I could NEVER say 'step-up'. He would immediately start shaking if he heard that phrase because in his previous home they would ask him for a step-up and if he didn't, they would force a step-up or towel him. Plus, the only time they brought him out of his cage was to clip his feathers every few months. Mr. D. and I agreed that the phrase "wanna come with mom?" was a good replacement. The second catch was that he would never, ever, step-up from inside his cage. Never. NEVER! He would let me know he was ready to come with me by climbing to a specific perch on the ouside of his cage, and then lifting his foot for me to come get him, his obedient slave. I never stopped asking him to come with me from inside his cage though. Of course, when dad would call for me I had to go right away. I couldn't wait for Dorian to climb around to his chosen launching point. I'd ask him politely if he wanted to "come upstairs with mom", he'd decline, and I'd tell him "ok, I'll be back in a few minutes". When I got back downstairs he'd be waiting on the outside perch for me to get him. Well, this went on for a couple of months, and then one day he just stepped-up from inside the cage!!!!!!!! I really didn't think we'd ever get to this point. It's just such a huge step for him. His trust and his desire to be near me means so much, especially because I know how nervous and dis-trustful he was when he first got here. Of course now when I'm doing something that means I can't carry him around, there he sits, waiving his little foot around in the air ever more impatiently, like a rain-soaked pedestrian trying to wave down the only taxi in town:D We're still working on other issues. He'll come into the shower with me onto his perch that attaches with suction cups, happily chatting and singing away, but continues to believe that if water actually touches him he'll melt away like the Wicked Witch of the West. He's still not a big fan of being outside, although he did have some fun a couple of times this summer barking back at our neighbours dog, a Westie named Dougal. This, btw, confuses the heck out of poor Dougal because Dorian sounds exactly like him. He runs up and down the fence looking for the 'doggie' thats mocking him. Dorian still doesn't know that, as an African Grey, he's supposed to chew and destroy toys. He happily shreds paper in any form, but any other toy he mostly just beats around. He stills tries like a champ to get a taste of Jacs' tail, which is why there are no low perches on the playstand, and why I never leave them together unsupervised. Mostly, though, he's a dream bird, sitting quietly when I need a nap, and making me laugh on days when I don't feel like I'll ever laugh again. And every once in a while when I'm on the computer and he's chatting away to himself, I hear my dad's voice asking him "whatcha doin bird? You're a good bird, eh?" And he really is. <3

This is a made up sentence that I think I've mentioned before, but "Gonna go get a drink of laundry" is still a favourite around here.

Yup, CAG. Woman in shop needs to join this forum for some friendly advice and education.

Energenic little angel isn't she? You know, they have these lovely soft cork floors now. I'm just sayin . . .

Not that you're counting

Or leave your name and # at every 4000 address in town.

Wow, if you have a grey that truly likes getting wet you've won the birdy lottery. Most greys on this forum act as though getting wet will kill, or at least severely hurt, them. Important grey lesson here, they will almost never decide to say the things you would like them to, but if they hear something you'd rather they not repeat odds are they'll learn to say it right away. For example, I've said "good morning" to Dorian every morning for the past 5 years and he's never repeated it, but when I got a new toaster oven that had a really annoying beep he learned it in an hour and it was the new favourite sound for weeks. OK, I think you mean her beak, also known as the thing that she uses to bite you when she's not happy with you. Greys rub their beaks on surfaces like their perches all the time to groom them, clean food off them etc... If you do see her starting to hurt herself don't react dramatically, just calmly offer her something else to chew on, and make sure she always has access to toys that she can preen, pick at, and destroy instead. Go to the home made toys forum to see lots of cheap toy ideas. As for the best way to teach her not to bite, the same tip about not reacting with drama applies here too. When she is being gentle she isn't actually biting. She's just testing your hand/fingers to see if they are a stable perch. If she truly bites you DO NOT give her a big excited reaction. Greys love big reactions and big drama and you may actually teach her that biting you results in big time fun reaction! They can read our facial expressions, so just calmly shake your head, say 'no' in a sad voice, and make a sad face. If you can, set her down and walk away, or turn your back on her for a few seconds. If you keep a few things in mind it will help you figure out what to do to help her settle in and become a good companion bird. 1. They are flock animals. In a flock there is no dominant/submisive relationship like with dogs. What your bird wants more than anything is the security of being with her 'flock', and that's you. That's why turning your back, just for a few seconds, and ignoring bad behaviour is an effective training technique. Then you start your interaction with her again. They are very smart, and she will figure out what behaviour the rest of her flock expects. 2. Try asking yourself how would you expect a 3 year old child to react in a similar situation. Imagine if you went in one day to a strangers home and picked up their 3 year old child and moved her and all her things into your house. Now imagine that child speaks a different language than you do. Even if the home she was in before was a bad home, she doesn't really understand that because it's the only life she's known up to now. Would you expect that child to give you kisses, sit on your lap, tell you she loves you, right away? She might at first if you demand it because she's frightened and she doesn't know whats going on, but she'll soon start acting out and letting you know she's not happy. It's great that your new bird seems to be accepting you, but don't push too hard too fast. It takes different birds different lengths of time to feel safe and confident in a new home, but the time and patience you put in now will pay off big time in the years to come. 3. Learn a grey's body language. There are lots of good posts here about body language, just do a search at the top of the forums. If you get a bite, don't get mad at her. Chances are very good that she felt she had to bite you because you didn't pick up on the more subtle (and less painful) signals she was sending you. Punishment, like tapping her even gently on the beak or head, NEVER works in the long-term with a grey. All it will teach her is that you (or in this case your roommate) is not to be trusted, and without trust you'll never have a good relationship with her. Just do alot of reading here, and encourage your roomate to do the same. There are a whole group of people here who will help you and cheer you on as you make "bird" part of your family!

Ah, but the stainless ones make such a fun and exciting sound when they hit the floor. I got Dorian a couple of stainless steel perch cups for the play stand I made him. First thing he does is try to turn them off the stand. When he realized that wasn't going to happen (took too long-I think he has parrot ADD) he started trying to bend them off. I'm sitting here all smug thinking 'good luck bud, those are welded together' when the little monster actually did it. Bounce went the cup, and in went my order for plastic bowls. grrrrrr

You could have told him you were the human that's too poor to go to a 'real' spa because a fid takes up all the money! Also, Dorian has expanded on the laundry sayings. Today I heard "I LUUUUUUVVV you laundry". Guess someone has to.

I also have to be very careful about keeping things germ-free, not just for Dorian, but to protect my dad's health. First rule in this house is when you've been outside in the big bad world the first thing you do when you walk in the door is to wash your hands. Also, I have to say I Love Love Love my Shark Steamer for getting cages and playstands clean. The only downside is while you're busy cleaning one parrot hang-out, your bird is on another one messing it up! I also use the vinegar and water solution. On a surface like a computer keyboard, I'll use a Lysol wipe, but I always follow up with a cloth dampened with only water to make sure any toxins from the disinfectants are gone.