Acappella

Sorry Sassy is getting on your last nerve today. It's funny. Greys are appealing to us because of their human-like characteristics. Unfortunately, this includes the tendancy to wake up in a bad mood. Is she getting enough sleep? Dorians grumpiest days usually happen after a less than optimal sleep.

Remind me how old is Alfie now?

Welcome to the forum. You've got plenty of time to read and ask questions before baby comes home so you're off to a good start. Just make sure the store doesn't try to send home the baby too soon. Ask them lots of questions about how they wean. Abundance weaning is the way to go. Make sure they allow the bird to fledge. Do they have a policy on wing clipping, or do they let the new parronts decide? Do they do DNA testing to determine gender, or do you have to request it? As for noise, I hope you like the sound of your Yorkies bark because the grey will mimick it. Like others have said, they aren't naturally screamers except during rough play or when they are in distress, but they will copy every annoying noise in your home, so educate yourself on how to extinguish those sounds. They will also be more prone to loud mis-behaviour if they aren't getting enough quiet, dark, sleep time, so it's important from the start to decide whether their cage will be in a place where you can provide this, or if you're going to use a sleep cage. The advantage with starting with a baby is that you can really set yourself up for a successful and rewarding relationship. Like in most things, it's a lot easier to prevent a problem than it is to try to solve it retroactively.

I think the key is that you have been doing it since she was a baby, when they are more accepting of things. It's not a method I could use around Dorian. Any fast movement startles him even today, although it doesn't usually prompt a panicked flight or fall to the bottom of the cage the way it did when I first re-homed him. I like your descripition of the different methods of command and how you've trained him to know the difference. It's important to their confidence and sense of autonomy to be able to have some choice over their activities, but it's also important that they obey a demand when they are in danger and moving them is imperative. I do the same thing. He know the difference in my voice between a question "Wanna come with mom?", and an order "Time for bed." That said, he knows the difference, but we're still working on the 100% compliance lol. BTW, I love your avatar. Does he wake up the moment you move?

She's a beautiful petite looking litttle lady. Welcome to the forum to both of you. Oh, and a little trick some members here have resorted to to keep their birds from flying up to a forbidden place. Find a stuffed animal or other object she is wary of and place it there.

Well, you've asked a bunch of questions, but I'm going to answer with a bunch for you to take back to the MSPCA with you to see if they can get the answers from the original owner. Actually, that's the first question - is the person who surrendered them the original owner? If so you should be able to find out their ages. What colour are their eyes? It's possible to make a rough guess of age up until the white of their eye turns a light yellow. Take a look around here for examples. Do they have proof of the genders? The only way the surrendering owner would know for sure is if there had been DNA sexing done. If those certificates exist make sure they come with the birds. When you say they are a bonded pair do you mean bonded as in buddies, or bonded as in 'hey, this is my mate so clean our cage, give us fresh food, but otherwise leave us alone, we're trying to make babies here' bonded? The first type could become companion parrots for you but it will take one on one work. The second type will not. Nothing is impossible of course, but a bonded breeding pair would have to be physically separated and would take months or years of re-hab to have any type of hands on relationship. If they are a breeding pair the MSPCA should be contacting established breeders about their adopting them - imho it's not a project for a novice. Just from your description I'm wondering if it's possible they were clutch mates adopted together. The research you've done on sleep issues is correct. They need 10-12 hours of undisturbed sleep a night. Now, by undisturbed ... If they have a big cage in your living area during the day and you have them in sleep cages in your bedroom at night and turn on a bedside table briefly when you climb into bed, they will wake for a moment and go back to sleep when you turn out the light - not a catastrophe. If they have to sleep in the living room and you like to stay up until 2:00 am watching movies with surround sound - not gonna work even if you cover their cage. Dorian (my grey) has his own room. Well, it's my office and music room as well, but I don't use it after he has gone to bed. I'm dealing with a grumpy feathers today because last night I fell asleep on the couch with him on his playstand and didn't wake up to put him to bed until 11:00pm (bad parronting). A schedule is important. It doesn't have to be written in stone, but your bird will be happier and healthier if there is some preditability in their life. Lots of members here work full time, which means they have to wake up their bird before first light to change water and supply food for the day. Those birds likely do go back to sleep for a bit before full light, but don't rely on their napping to make up for a chronic lack of dark and quiet sleep. Lots of people here have to leave their birds alone for the day while they work. As long as they have plenty of things to keep them occupied, like toys, foraging, a radio left on ... and you give them lots of attention and out-of cage time once you're home they'll adjust and be fine. As for wing clipping, lots of opinions and debate here and elsewhere on the issue. First you need to know if they are used to being allowed to fly. Example. My Dorian was clipped before he was even allowed to fledge. Then, for the first 4 years of his life the only time he was allowed out of his cage was to have his wings re-clipped. He was totally cage bound and terrified of hands when he came to me. It took months before he would venture out of his cage, years before he would step up onto my hand. Even though he has all of his feathers he doesn't really know he can fly. On occasions something scares him and he takes off, but he has no directional control and the landings are not good (although he has learned to slow down before he runs into walls, so the landings no longer make a sound that make my heart stop) These flights seem to scare him more than anything although he has on occasion, when I refuse to respond to his demands that I go to him, tried to seek me out with deliberate flight. Try to find out what they are used to. If they are flighted, can you live with that? It takes real discipline. You have to be conscious of where they are and whether they are caged every time you open a door or a window, and you have to enforce that same level of discipline with every visitor to your home. They will fly onto places you don't want them, or can't reach them, but that's where having a forum of people like us come in handy with ideas on coping with each challenge. There will be poop everywhere, and if they are chewers you may have to drape favourite possessions with layers of protection to save them from birdy destruction. Plus you'll have to deal with the attitudes of other people who can't understand why you would adjust your behaviour so drastically when you could just 'keep the bird in the cage'. But ... when I read here about birds joyfully following their owners from room to room under their own power, or flying through the house doing the grey pterodactyl scream during rambunctious playtime, my heart aches for my little guy and I wish I'd been his parront from day one so that he could be a flying pain in my butt. Lastly from me on feather trimming. Clipped birds can still fly and get away. Lots of stories on people with clipped birds who got startled by a loud noise or sudden movement and between adrenline and a stray breeze were never seen again, so don't make the mistake of thinking clippind a bird means you don't have to adjust your behaviour around the house re: open doors etc... Also, the most important thing when trying to establish a relationship with a new fid, especially a re-home, is to build trust. Before you work on training, or changing a diet, your first job is to work on gaining their trust. If they are used to flight and the first thing that happens to them with you is a clip . . . Beak and talons trims. No set rules. Lots of people here never need to trim talons because their bird will perch part of the time on a concrete or pumice perch that dulls the needle sharp tip of the talon. Beak trims, unless there is a growth defect that disturbs their ability to funtion normally, are not usuallly necesary IMHO. I wouldn't put my bird through anything like that if it's only for cosmetic reasons. I do get Dorian's talons trimmed when I have to. He won't use any of the many perches I've offered through the years, so when my hands begin to look like I've placed them in a blender I call for a home visit from the evil towel lady. I prefer to pay someone else to do it so that I can be the hero who 'rescues' him. You're right to be here researching and asking questions. The more information you have the better. Get every piece of info you can on this pair, ask all the questions here you want. Just know that however well prepared you are, they will still do something you never expected. At some point you have to take a leap of faith, but you have a great resource here of people who would love to see needy birds find their forever home.

Dan's right. If you've got Chico so that he likes misting, stick with it. Around here Dorian has to initiate the bath idea or it ain't happening. I can help him along though. They prefer cold water for bathing, so you can even try adding a couple ice cubes to the dish ideas Dan gave you. On days when I want to encourage Dorian to take the plunge, I just keep filling and refilling his water dish with ice cold water and he usually dives in himself. Then and only then will he allow me to help him with a spray bottle full of cold aloe juice.

I was wondering if some of it is just exuberant grey behaviour and he just doesn't know, or favour, any other sounds. They do have to be loud at least a couple of times a day. As I type, looney tunes in his cage behind me is battleing his bell, singing, whistling, and making lots of noise. Does he seem distressed all the time when he is screaming? Does he have his really vocal, hope the neighbours aren't trying to nap, times? I can't remember if you've answered this before, but does he have a big loud sturdy bell, one that he can attack and swing from? A bell not only helps during playful loud times, but Dorian also beats it up when he's frustrated. Continue with the sound extinguishing training. It is working. Just keep the earplugs around for regression days. I'm kind of feeling a bit of your pain right now. There's a yogurt commercial on right now where a woman does a really earpiercingly loud, two fingers in the mouth, whisle. Well, Dorian only had to hear that once and it's his new favourite sound. Yikes!

The cage in your link is a good size for a grey. I got a huge cage (43" W x 24"D) because of Dorian's personality. Even with the cage door open he chooses to spend most of his day inside, so I got a cage that could handle a good size swing, bell batttles, and a couple of decent shredding toys, and he still has room to spread his wings for birdy tai chi. If you know your bird is going to have to spend long stretches of time inside a cage, like fids whose people work a full time job outside the home, a big cage is really important so that they have plenty of room to play, forage, and exercise. If I could have afforded it I would have stuck to SS. I love my cage, but the powder coat on the bottom grate does have some chips, something you wouldn't have to deal with in SS. I love the food dish area. Great for pet sitters who are a little nervous of beaks, and it's protected from poops if your bird is playing above. One thing it doesn't show is if there are birdy proof locking mechanisms on the doors. You want to make sure there's a way to secure them from the outside just in case you end up with a little grey escape artist.

Are you looking to breed them? Is your male a pet?

So, he stopped for them. There's more than hope for you - you're more than halfway there. He knows what's up, he's just checking your resolve. The only way to stop Tango's screaming is for both of you to be 100% consistant. Anything less than that will confuse and frustrate him, and may actually lead to more problems. A frustrated bird acts out. So ... you have to find some way to get your boyfriend on board all the way. One funny thought though. I don't know how long you have been together or how old you are, but you could look at him and say "so, this is how you're going to be with kids? Giving in and making me the bad guy?!" lol

Thanks for the morning laugh. She's a cutie and a smartie pants. One thought though. When one of you puts her in a time out you should both ignore her, or you may inadvertently reinforce her liking one person over the other.

Wow, she choose a scratch over a peanut. That's a deal Dorian would never make!

This is a fantastic sign!!!!! I have no doubt that he's catching on. You and your boyfriend are doing a great job and setting up a future where you all can enjoy each others company, and Tango can learn to entertain himself. Keep up the fantastic work!

I'd make it very short. If he's quiet for 10 seconds re-appear and head towards his cage, or turn around, and quietly praise the heck out of him. Smiling, laughing, clapping, whatever your voice and body can do to show approval. I say quietly praise, as opposed to being loud and happy, because I don't think right now you want to raise the decibel level. It might confuse him. As you head towards the cage, smile, tell him what a good boy he is. If he starts screaming again make a dramatic change in body language, shake your head NO, sad face again and walk away/turn your back. The day you make it to the cage be sure to have a treat in your pocket to further re-inforce the quiet. I'll try to send a little strength and patience your way today. Don't back down or yesterday's suffering will have been for nothing. they can be stubborn little monsters, so you have to be more stubborn!

Another enthusiastic endorsement of my Shark steam cleaner here. No worries about fumes or residue, and in the winter cleaning a cage with one helps add some humidity to that dry winter air

If I have company over and we're talking, aka ignoring Dorian, he will start mumbling along under his breath to join in, but as soon as we notice and turn to him he clams up! Part of living with a grey.

Sleep could definitely be an issue. Do you have another room where a sleep cage could go? He really needs dark and quiet for 10-12 hours. On the few occasions where I've fallen asleep with Dorian in the living room with me and I've woken up past his bedtime I notice that he never truly goes into sleep mode. He may pull one foot up and even tuck his head behind his wing, but he wakes at the slightest noise. It's nowhere near the deep sleep he falls into at night in his cage. Then on the next day he's invariably cranky.

Yep, another case of parront training needed. Tango is only doing what works. He screams, he gets attention. Remember, even negative attention is a reward for them. They're flock animals, so what they want most is attention from the other members of their flock. The only thing you can to do is to ignore the screaming 100% of the time. If you're in the room and can't leave when he screams, make a sad face, say 'no', and keep your back to him. Keep your body language sad. Do not reward him with any attention until he quiets or makes a more acceptable noise. If he does make a better noise try to immediately give him positive feedback. You and everyone else in the household has to be 100% consistent during this training time. Remember, if you respond after he's screamed for 1/2 an hour, you've just taught him that he NEEDS to scream for 1/2 an hour. Buy some of those foam earplugs that let in noise but take the edge off the loudest ones, and hunker down for a few very crappy days. He's almost guaranteed to ramp up the negative behaviour before he finally gets the message. This is the only effective way of dealing with this behaviour and estinguishing annoying or excessively loud noises. You have to invest the time and patience now in order to have a positive and pleasant relationship with Tango going further. You can come on here to vent if you need to during the process. Lots of us have walked this path more that once. I promise it works. You can do it. (hugs)

Just wondering how things are going?

Set backs do happen, don't beat yourselves up about it, just keep moving forward. Don't put any pressure on Charlie. If he's feeling like he want to withdraw a little let him. You can guarantee the one thing that won't stop is his thinking. If you are consistant and loving he'll take it all in and make decisions about his safety in his new home. If his former situation was bad seeing his old owner may have scared him into thinking he was going back there. When Dorian and I were having troubles with trust I had an animal behaviourist over. Her biggest advise was to treat him like he was already the bird I wanted him to be. To me that meant making a conscious choice to approach him with positive body language and a happy disposition. Remarkably, when I relaxed, so did he. That was the beginning of big progress with Mr. D and I, and it shows how tuned in they are to us and the signals we send. I met him where he was and we walked the path together, instead of me being ahead of him and trying to drag him along. I have a feeling Charlie needs that same kind of approach.

I love my steam cleaner. It liquifies poops and makes them easy to wipe away. The concentrated nozzel blasts seeds out of crevices.The biggest pain is, of course, your bird can't be anywhere near it because of the heat, but there are no worries about fumes, well, other than the smell of cooked poop! lol I don't have a steam mop but I use the steam cleaner and brush to clean up floors when Dorian manages to avoid the papers I put down. I'd recommend a steam cleaner to any bird owner.

Patience patience patience. Your main job right now is to establish trust. If he is fearful and screaming he is no where near ready to leave his cage. You have to let him have his cage as his safe zone while he looks around and evaluates his new home. If you let him out and have to manhandle him to get him back in it will destroy any sense of safety he has. He could become cage defensive. I know it's hard, but you have to take the advice of the people here who know greys, especially those of us who have re-homed birds that came with lots of negative baggage. Watch his body language. Sit by his cage and let him approach you from inside the cage. Ideally, you would have a long perch that runs from one side of the cage to the other. Sit at one end and let him decide how close to you he wants to come. If he does get close to you watch his body language for signs of aggression or fear (Theres a thread in the Training forum room all about body language). There's a saying, you only get one chance at a first impression. Right now your bird is forming his first impression of you and his new home. You want him to feel safe, protected, respected, even a little curious. You want him to feel like he has a little bit of control in how his day goes. Just chill and don't get jealous of others here who are able to get close to their birds. For many, like me and Dorian, it took literally years to get there. You're doing a good thing giving this guy a new home, but he doesn't know it yet. Oh, and I would NEVER allow a bird that you barely know and who is showing signs of fear and aggression any where near your shoulder. Even well loved companion parrots who have been with their owners since babyhood have to earn that priviledge. I love my guy but he is far too skittish to ever be on my shoulder, ever ever ever. ever

So once again, parrot training has turned into parront training. Lol Hopefully it won't take long to train him!

Like Timbersmom said, the rebound usually doesn't take as long. Your ex may have strongly reminded Woodstock of someone from his past that he had bad experiences with. Dorian had such a hatred for his former owners husband that she told me I'd never be able to date a tall grey-haired man lol! Just take a deep breath, or ten, and start over. He may snap out of it as fast as he has seemed to regress. Just give him lots of reassurance and consistency.