Jane08

I also agree that you should feed him the formula and also the solid food. The screaming for food is a very distinctive scream and I don't agree that it should be left in the hope that it will pass. I also wouldn't worry about him becoming a begging bird if you give him the formula, I myself have never experienced this with our 2 and as I said we fed them formula until they were 1 year old. We also continued with the feeding to help with the bonding process. You should have set times when you give him the formula so he knows exactly when he will receive it. I know when we did this it stopped the screaming, but if were were a few hours late in giving the feeding then they would scream for it.

Just wondering if you are still feeding him the formula that he was on as an infant. I know with both of ours when we got them home that young we still continued to hand feed them once a day with the formula, even though they were weaned and eating solid food. They would also scream in the evenings for their formula until they got it. Must admit we continued with this one feeding in the evening until they were 1 and then suddenly they didn't want it at all anymore. If it doesn't get any better though a health check at the vet would also be a good idea.

I am the same as lovethatgrey I also try to avoid them feeling that they have to bite me. If they are biting then they are really saying to you that this is not comfortable for them and they want you to stop. They always give other body language to tell you this before the bite, but usually we don't listen so then they bite. There is no point of you being scared of being bitten and your bird feeling that she has to bite because you won't stop. Not fun for both parties. I also can't get the harness on our 2, only over the head and then I see they are uncomfotable and I stop straight away. I also use the positive reinforcement method and like lovethatgrey says it is really baby steps and takes alot of time and patience. You want this to be fun for both you and her. To be honest she sounds like my little Kea. Kea used to lunge at my hand and try and bite me. I backed off and didn't give her a chance to bite me. I then worked on training her with simple things like step up and fetch before I even tackled the harness. After she got this I then started with the harness training. Maybe you need to start small before you tackle the harness.

Haha was it one particular event that made your fiance finally come to that conclusion, or had your fiance suspected it for awhile and was just now ready to admit it. I wonder if in general people do realise this at about 2 years. Your fiance is not the only one, our 2 have definitely trained us as well. When I get home they are both yelling "come out, come out, come out". I then let them out of their cage and it starts again "food, food, food, food". Kea even starts on with "clean the cage, clean the cage". So I then clean the cage while I am also preparing dinner. Rangi this morning was yelling at me "water, water, water". I told him in a minute....big mistake he flew over and gave me a friendly peck to let me know that is not good enough. Of course he then got water straight away. Everytime I have something to eat as well Rangi looks at me and slowly comes over whilst saying to me "can I taste, can I taste".

Yeah they are really good at making up their own phrases I have also been surprised and they even have the words in the right contaxt so it makes sense. Rangi came out the other night with " I am not a bird"......must admit he is right I mean what bird eats human food, sits on the couch everynight to watch TV, gets cuddles every night. Rangi knew the word I am not in another context and he also knew the word bird and then he just combined them to make a phrase. Kea's pharse that made me laugh was "can I have a cat"....this was after her seeing the cat outside the window. I was like sure Kea you can have a cat that will be fun for you. So she knew can I have and she knew the word for cat and she also just made up the sentence using those words.

Good luck with the clicker training it really is fun. It was one way I used to get closer to Kea, she really loved training. One thing I got her to do was run across the table and pick up a plastic ring and then come back and drop it into my hand. This was huge for our relationship as before that she would just lunge and bite me and I did avoid her and didn't want to interact with her at all. I just used a small dog clicker with a strap so I could have it attached to my wrist and I would also have the treats in the same hand. With my other hand I gave her instructions on what I wanted her to do as well as using verbal instructions. Let us know how you get on.

I hate to say it but it could be months before the screaming stops. It was months before our Kea stopped screaming. She started to scream for attention after a few weeks of bringing her home. I was also at my wits end and was ready to strangle her. I kept telling myself it's only a few months you can do it, she will be with us for the rest of our life so overall the screaming is a very very short period of time. Patience is really the key it will get better but with alot of time.

If it makes you feel any better I am another one who is struggling with the harness...I have basically given up as soon as Rangi sees me coming with it his feathers go flat to his body and he looks at me like I don't think so lady. I can get it over his head and that is with a lot of treats in the process, but any further and he starts to realise that the treats just don't cut it for what he has to do. Kea is the same over the head and then you have to be joking me you want me to what lift my wings and put that on. I don't know how you pluck up the courage Xtreme I am too chicken of the bites to even attempt to struggle with them.

Judy I can't imagine being the exception because when we got Rangi we had never ever owned a parrot before so surely brand new owners to this wouldn't have such good success with both of them. I mean we did have our issues with them, but we worked really hard to do what was best for them. Here is the advice we followed from Jim Mckendry who is a parrot behaviourist. Provided that your two African Greys are compatible and that the enclosure adequately caters for two parrots in terms of enrichment and access to shared resources and perches. Compatibility can be determined through your observations of the interactions that they are obviously already having away from the cages. You need to reflect on the frequency of antagonistic behaviour between them, how they react towards each other in the presence of a shared food bowl or enrichment item, tolerance levels towards each other on the same perch and observable body language indicators that suggest a degree of comfort in close proximity to each other. It’s achievable but you must make sure that you cater for the transition with sensitivity to their observable level of comfort with each other and ensure that the shared enclosure is adequate in size to properly cater for two African Greys. That’s critical as there are pressures on each bird achieving spatial comfort within small indoor cages that are relieved in larger aviary type enclosures, thus potentially making it more of a challenge. Start with short durations of shared cage time when you are at home to observe the birds. As they become more familiar with the routine, and if it’s `happy families’, then the time can be extended. It’s also another tip to have a complete perch change and furnishing rearrangement if you are using an existing cage as the new, shared environment. This way you can introduce them both into a `new’ environment and give them time to explore it and establish their perching preferences without the variable of pre-existing favourites.<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/04/08 16:34

we also did the same when Rangi our male was nearly 8 months old, got another grey female companion for him. I am of the opinion that if they get on there is no problem with them living in the same cage if the cage is big enough. In our case we had them in their own cages for 3 months and one day I put Kea in her cage and she screamed and wouldn't stop until I put her in Rangi's cage with him. He was fine with this and we let her in there for an hour and then over the next week we increased that time. So now they live full time together. Yes they are bonded with each other, but have never excluded us from their affections. They are never aggressive towards us, we are able to play with them, train them and they love us giving them scratches and head rubs. I have found that having two is so much easier as they are great company for each other, they are able to do grey things together that us humans can't do with them, they have become social birds and the most important thing was that getting Kea changed Rangi's life for the better. Nothing can beat getting home and seeing Rangi and Kea huddled as close as they can get together on the same perch or some days they are facing each other all fluffed up with their beaks just about touching.<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/04/08 11:35

Here is the video from the meet with all the birds. About 4.50 in to it you will see Rangi's performance and see what I mean. LOL Jill, Rangi would also be after the butterflies thank god they take them out before they let the birds lose.<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/04/06 09:12

The bird society organises the meets here and there are no requirements to be a part of it, just a clean bill of helth for your bird. We have a park here with about 6 huge greenhouses where they have the butterflies and parrots as well. So they invite everyone to bring their birds twice a year. We went back today and it was alot better. Rangi again was the same but not so bad and he got a bit of a surprise when a macaw actually chased him, but he did hold his ground and didn't back down. The lady with the macaw said good on him as her macaw needs teaching a lesson as he was also a bit of a bully. Rangi was kind to all the kids and let them hold him and touch him on the back. Kea was the entertainer and was talking away. A guy who was writing a book on birds took loads of photos of Rangi and kea flying as we are able to have them fly on command. So they are both exhausted now and resting in their room after a big 2 days.

Well we have decided to take them back just for a couple of hours today, you are right Judy I am not going to let them make me feel like he is abnormal, he is Rangi and he has always been like this and I wouldn't change him for the world. Dan I did have a feeling that maybe he was protecting his flock and didn't want other birds near us or even flying past us. I was also scared he would get hurt by the macaws. I always watch to see where he is and then walk up to him and ask him to step up even if he is advancing on another bird with his fetahers raised. He always obeys and steps on my hand. Some people there said just leave it they will work it out, but to my mind this is not good advice with the size differences in the birds and I would rather avoid leaving them to maybe fight. How is it that even in the clutch they know that they macaws and conures are diffirent, that is so fascinating that they all huddle with their own kind.

Today we took our 2 to a bird meet in the butterfly house where they can fly around and it was also open to the public to come and meet the parrots. Kea was very calm and the other birds didn't bother her. Rangi was another story and I got told he is not a normal grey. He was fine with the greys, but as soon as another type of bird flew past he was off chasing it. He even chased the macaws and twice landed on their backs. I have no idea what he was thinking and everyone was watching this grey chasing the big birds. As you can imagine I was a bit embarrassed. It would have been ok if I didn't get the comments about him not being a normal grey, how mature he is for a 3 year old, what an attitude he has. You should have seen him if another bird landed on me, that was an absolute no no, he would fly over directly and tell the other bird to get off. We are meant to go back tomorrow as well but I am so unsure of taking him back if he is going to try and bully all the other birds. I mean these are all bird owners so should know what they can be like, but they all seen so surprised by Rangi.

We also do that and it really works. Everytime we have an item or do somehting we use a word or phrase to associate with it and ours really learn this way. For example, they will only say sorry when they have done something wrong, if they want water they ask for it. Now the only one I am having difficulties teaching them is thank you. When I give them something I always use it but they have never picked it up, ungrateful little so and so's.

Another thing you can do with the screaming which helped us is everytime Kea made another likeable noise we would immediately praise her, give her a treat and make a big fuss over her, she got our full attention. Everytime she made the scream that was her contact call I would totally ignore her and walk off out of the room. After doing this consistently for some time she finally realised that she got attention for particular noises which she started to do more for the attention. She then forgot all about the screaming call because this didn't get her attention. It's now got to the point where she uses our names when she wants attention or to know where we are and we just call back hello Kea and she is happy.

Ours are not keen on taking a bath and I just go with what they want. I try once a week and if they get in they get in and if they don't they don't. Rangi usually hops in, but Kea doesn't she will only bath when she feels it's time for her to take a bath. I just leave her to it and don't force her. I guess my thought is she knows when she needs it and when she needs it she gets in no problem.

Oh he is gorgeous I love the flying pictures. They are amazing when they fly with the tail spread apart, huge wings and the eyes wide. I also like your cage set up he is one lucky bird.

Those feathers are annoying and it does take a long time for them to take care of it. Kea had one the other week and it was also hanging down and she couldn't fly with it, so I had to carry her everywhere for a week. It was hell having to take her everywhere, I was up and down like a yoyo because she wanted to go somewhere.

This is really a myth about dominance that us humans have made up to label something. Humans are very domineering and we have taken this and interpreted it on to our birds. There is no struggle for rank and height has nothing to do with it. This myth has grown with no scientific research to back it up. The research that has been done has shown that there is no alpha parrots or hierarchies in the parrot world. There is no need to lower anything and having your bird on your shoulder is a personal thing, not a dominance issue. Yes you have to be careful when they are on your shoulder but this has nothing to do with rank. With Rangi and Kea I make their tree perches as high as I can, they love sitting up there looking out over everything. Their cage is a lot taller than me and I never have problems with them and height. It's how you train them and teach them that is the key. Here is some of the scientific research wich shows it is a myth: May, Diana, Graduate student, University of Arizona, African Gray research in Africa Brice, Ann, Ph.D., University of California, Davis, Yellow-naped Amazon parrot research in Guatemala<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/03/22 21:02

It is very true, exactly what we did when Kea joined the family. We even took Rangi when we went to visit Kea and then when we picked her up so he felt like he was part of it all. Kea changed Rangi's life in such an amazing way, they are so incredible together.

Oh I feel for you we went through this with both of our greys. Just when the first one got over it the second one started as she is younger...I thought I would die. The key is to stay calm....yes I know hard to do but show even a slight bit of stress or annoyance and they become even more stubborn. I try to talk to them softly and calmly and tell them exactly what is going to happen and why I need them to go in. I also picture in my head an imagine of them going in the cage which helps me feel calm. I also try to project all these feelings of love towards them. I know this sounds a bit like some hippy way of doing things but it really worked for me. I did this for months and months and it really paid off as now when I do this they both step up and come in the cage no problem. Rangi even sits there and says "going to work, must go in the cage" so I know he actually knows what that means. For me I wasn't going to take the bites it hurts so much and I am such a wuss. I know you say treats don't work, but I would spend ages just finding the right treat for that day to lure them in. I would be digging everything out of the cupboard just to see if it interested them, it might just be some bag that made a noise that they wanted, a sweet paper that was red and Rangi like it. Believe me I would try even the most unusual things. Really the good news is that it will get better and pass just hang in there and get creative.

Our also don't get the full amount of sleep at night, but I don't worry as they do sleep during the day while I am at work. I get them up at 6am and they probably go to bed at 2130 or 2200. I also don't leave food in their room at night and they are uncovered sleeping on a spiral perch that hangs from the roof. We are lucky in that they have their own room. Sometimes if Rangi gets tired he will fly down to the 1st level of the house and then fly into his bedroom and go to sleep<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/03/05 15:19

Our 2 don't like being caged either and would prefer to hang out with the human flock. Kea loves nothing more than sitting on my BF chest right in front of his face and doing her normal resting and preening. Rangi loves to perch just behind me on the couch. They have just a few months ago negotiated night time out of the cage which is going very well.

I usually use foraging toys or I make my own and put them in then it gives them something to do. Of course I also give them a treat for going in the cage, at the moment their favourite treat is a bit of sausage. I sometimes make holes in a bell pepper and then place lots of food treats inside it and hang it in the cage and they love ripping it open. I use palm nuts, wrap them in paper and hide them in the cage. I also do this with grapes. Just now I put fresh chillis on the birdie kebab stick and hung them in the cage as I know Kea adores them. She looks as soon as she gets in the cage to see what is there for her and races over to the chilli and sits for ages chewing on it. The joy I get out of seeing how happy she is with her chilli makes me forget about the guilt of leaving. I take the core out of an apple and shove sunflower seeds in the outside of the apple all the way around and hang it in the cage. Takes them ages to take all the seeds out and then destroy the apple. So really you have to find stuff that they think is fun and will keep the attention away from the fact that you are leaving.<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2010/02/27 09:54