danmcq

Janfromboone wrote: Jan - It would be wonderful even if you just logged and shared your and Tobie's journey to accomplishing this. It is not been and easy or pleasant ath at times for either of you. But, the final outcome far outweighs the process to reach this first flight and Tobie becoming the ruler of the air he knows he should be. :-) It would serve as a great reference for all undergoing this process.

Very cute videos. I love Emma's swing. It is truly unique! Thanks for sharing this video. :-)

Yep, your baby is loosening up in the perfect "Ice Skate racing" position....looks like anyways. It's good to hear he is doing so well and you are so observant. Would love to see photos!! :-)

Lyn - Yep, he has never liked pellets. I throw them out, refill and once in a blue moon he eats 10 percent of A pellet then tosses it as if to say "Yep, still tastes like crap". I don't fret over it though. I know by feeding him the well rounded diet I provide along with the avian lighting and outdoors in the summer he is getting all the nutrients he needs for good health. :-)

Go Alfie Go! You only have one more Pellet to go to hit Dayos 3 year high of 3 pellets. I always have them in front of him though. :-)

Penny - I am glad we were able to make your day a little more special for you and show our appreciation for all you do in the background that is not evident to all the family members here. :-) All - Please understand, this thread is dedicated to Talon (Penny). It is NOT about Dayo. It is a Thank You from him to Penny. This forum is where I came before I actually decided to get a Grey and it is where I found a loving and experienced community that helped me raise Dayo and thus Dayo is lucky to have people like Penny in his life. :-) Please, give a shout to Penny about her continued commitment here for several years now!!! :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/30 18:09

How adorable. :-) I suspect at 40 + he is what one might consider and experienced and "Worldly" Parrot. He sure looks good for his age and seems sharp as a razor.

whg wrote: Since you keep referencing Carly lu's blog on free flight. She took over a year preparing for that first free flight. After many months of successful free flights. Her Grey decided it fancied a person and took off to them, much to Carly's horror. She was very fortunate in the fact, that the person her grey went to and interacted with realized this was a "Special" bird and he also had a conscience that told him there was an owner heartbroken looking for this special bird and took it to a vets office inquiring how to get the bird back to it's owner. Thus, Carly Lu got her bird back in a nutshell. So, if scary events that WILL frighten them and cause an instinctive "flee for your life" reaction will happen at some point. another factor is, they also have a brain, wants and desires and will pursue those. No matter how much you think they may love you or how well trained you think the bird is, they will fly off into the sunset. Professional trainers that free fly birds never make the mistake of becoming comfortable enough to assume a bird will not just fly off one day. They know it can and will happen in most cases. They are so in-tune with their birds, that they can just look at it and know, this is not a day to free fly. Their are articles on this as well and in Carly Lu's blog. Letting your bird become flighted is a huge step many parrot owners do not ever take. So you have already given the best gift of all to your bird, namely the ability to fly. You can further that by using a flight harness and placing extensions on it to allow semi free flight like Shanlung. This also ensures that as a responsible loving owner, you know your birds will not fly off under duress and face a very shortened life due to not having survival skills. You need to think about your birds safety and your responsibility to make the wise decisions for it. You are responsible for what you have tamed for life. Even professionals will not release a tamed critter to the wild. They know it will be a death sentence. I know your feelings very well. I have them myself on wanting my bird to have the freedom and life it was meant to have in the wild. But, I also know it depends on me for it's very life. So I give it the closest thing to a natural life I can, without putting it in danger it has no knowledge of. He was born in captivity and will remain in captivity for life until dieing of natural causes. He loves his life here, loves his flock and home. To him, this is his natural life. It is the only one he will know, as all other critters born in captivity. When you say if your bird flies off, then "oh well I gave it the freedom it deserves". I take exception to that. It deserves your looking after it's very life and just releasing it to perhaps have an exhilarating time of freedom it does not know it is missing and possibly sentencing it to a decades shortened life span, is not rational thinking, in my opinion. It took me not a short while to come to the conclusion myself.

Oh Jan that is such wonderful news!!! I have followed Tobie's updates since you started. Knowing the pain and suffering you and Tobie both went through, I can only say your devotion,love and Tobie's will to fly whether he had primaries or not got you both through it. I shed tears of joy reading of Tobie's flights. It such a wonderful life changing event, that I can not explain it. Now your going to worry every time he takes flight, just like you would a birth child taking their first steps. He was meant to fly, he knows it and he is a master of the air. He will learn quickly and rule the air as his heritage says he should and has the god given right to. Karma to you and please keep updates coming. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/30 00:33

Welcome whg!! It's GreYt having you here. I agree with you post completely and my birds have been flighted s well since bringing them home. I had entertained the thought of free flying my Grey as well and putting in the many months of training in large indoor enclosures etc. to do so safely. But, we live in an area with an enormous number of Hawks, so I decided to not try it. I do however take my Grey out on a harness, however, I must watch like a "Hawk" to ensure one has not come in the area, if so, we're gone! Looking forward to hearing more from you. Why don't you go introduce yourself in our welcome room so others will know we have a new member? :-)

That is terrible news. You have my condolences. I am sure you are just sick about it. Did they say what the cause was, like internal bleeding possibly?

Awwww, cute girl and nice photo's displaying the carnage she created while foraging. :-)

WOW!!!! Absolutely stunning photos. :-) Thanks for sharing these and Karma to you.

GreYt photos you have been posting! :-) That "Snack" looks mmm mmm good! Rishi is obviously engrossed in trying out all that good tasting food. They do love to just walk right in, sit right down and dig in, don't they?

Glad to hear you decided on an Aviator Harness. :-) It comes with a very informative dvd on how to introduce it to your bird. Please follow the instructions completely and be very patient, to ensure you do not make your Grey uncomfortable in the sense of having a bad experience at any point. The reason I am saying this, is at 1 year old, your grey will not be nearly as accepting as a baby. Once a bad experience is encountered, it will be nearly impossible to ever get that harness on your bird again and take twice as long from then on. Like all critters. When they have a bad experience with any object, they run for the hills the next time it's brought out. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/29 14:50

I may have a little higher costs than others on food items. I buy in smaller quantities to ensure all foods are as fresh as possible and the least amount of nutrient loss is suffered. I do buy frozen veggie mixes in addition to fressh,which helps a lot just heating up a daily portion. These costs are only for my Grey, not conure. The costs listed are pretty much dead on. So: Fruits and Veggies: $15 weekly ( I throw out any left) Nuts: $6 weekly (Almonds and Walnuts) Harrisons Pellets: $16 month (95% waisted) Kaytee Fiesta Blend seed mix: $20 month Toys: $20 month (sometimes $40) Aloe Juice: $10 every 2 months Red Palm Oil: $8 every three months Annual Vet: $100 - $400 depending on tests

Oh boy, a lab puppy is big and as you know playful as hell. There could be internal damage from that kind of weight holding your grey to the floor.

When you grey was pinned to floor, how so? Moth against it, leg on it etc? How big is the dog? Does the leg appear normal, like no weird bends etc.? How is your grey acting? Are it's eyes pinned constantly? Does breathing seem labored? Being quite and not eating is normal. It is basically scared as hell.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/29 02:59

As the title say's it all, heres to you Penny (Talon)! Thanks for all you do here....You Rock!!! :-)

Very nice photo! What a cute baby grey. :-) Thanks for sharing hits.

I am glad you got a laugh or two out of Dayo's word and phrase experimentation. Watching him learn and evolve the speech process up to this point is very similar to a human child's. At 3 years old humans do the same thing in making up crazy sentences as they try and figure out which words to use properly in sentences and what the response is by others. Of course the most hilarious is when children do it on purpose because we laugh our butts off at them. Since Dayo is just a few months shy of being 3, I find it strikingly similar to human speech learning. It hit me in analyzing Dayos sentence structures and use of words like "In" versus "On" the computer for example. I realized that he sits on my shoulder and I say things like "Look Dayo, it's you dancing, singing. talking etc.". Thus, the sentence "Put me IN the computer" now makes perfect since to me. Now as for the Banana and Coconut in the computer...I write it off to him just being silly and liking to see me laugh. <br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/28 15:13

It's great to hear your methodology of dealing with the screaming is working. :-) The introduction of the new toy is interesting. She is probably playing with the older toys and watching to see if the new toy is going to react to it. Greys are very strange in their behavior when it comes to new toys, tree stands etc. in comparison to other parrots that will just jump right on them. I see this same behavior in Dayo.

This is a long read, but Important if you are seriously wanting know about Red Palm oil and why it IS recommended for African Greys. I am going to add some "Clinical" data to the mix here on RPO. I feel we need to focus on studies and real life outcomes. Please note: African Greys are evolved to have a higher fat content in their diet than many other Parrots. Some vets may miss this and make comments in general due to other parrots that would die from a high fat diet! Snipet of Comments by Pamela Clark an African Breeder and expert in the field: Further, Vitamin A is a fat-soluble vitamin. Most parrots do not have an effective mechanism for fat storage the way that humans do; the necessity and ability to fly precludes this. Accordingly, even if adequate levels of vitamin A are present in the diet, it will not be able to be used most effectively in the body, unless the diet of Greys also contains adequate levels of fat. And this leads me to a fascinating observation. We have largely ignored a very important fact regarding the diet of wild African Greys. Greys naturally feed extensively on the fruits of the red oil palm. Numerous references to this can be found in avicultural literature. Joseph Forshaw, in Parrots of the World, mentions in a discussion of their natural diet, “They are particularly fond of fruits of the red oil palm (Elaeis guinensis).” According to aviculturist David Poole, these fruits contain 90% oil and are available throughout the year. We also see that, in captivity, African Greys appear to be better able to cope with slightly higher levels of fat in the diet than most parrots and in fact, such levels appear to be beneficial. There are numerous anecdotal reports that Greys who feather pick have been cured of the problem when extra fats were included in their diet. This was true of one of my own Greys, Sister Woman. Signs of fatty acid deficiency in humans include dry skin, cracked nails, dry lifeless hair; I believe that the Greys that we see with dry skin and feathers, or cracking and peeling beaks are exhibiting similar symptoms. This leads us to the question of whether we might wisely and intentionally include more fat in an African Grey’s diet, and if so…how? In answering that question, we must recognize that not all fats are “created equal.” A complete explanation of the differences between saturated and unsaturated fats, as well as a full definition of essential fatty acids, are not within the scope of this article. However, the following is pertinent to our discussion. Unsaturated and naturally occurring oils are rich in nutrients called “essential fatty acids,” specifically the omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. They are called “essential” fatty acids because they are essential for normal growth and development, and they can not be manufactured by the body, as other fats can. They must come from the diet. If we look at the role these EFAs have in the diet, we are astounded. They are involved in many, many biological processes. Essential fatty acids are critically important in maintaining brain function, a strong immune system, and good eyesight, among other things. What interests me most, however, is the fact that essential fatty acids are vital for the healthy functioning of the nervous system. The brain is largely made up of fat - not the kind that you store on your thighs, but “structural” fat, the kind that forms cell membranes and plays a vital role in how cells function. Neurons, the cells that transmit chemical messages are unusually rich in omega-3 fatty acids. The latter is an important fact, which the following will illustrate. One of the first animal studies demonstrating a link between fat and intelligence was published in 1975.[ii] In this experiment, one group of rats was raised on a safflower oil diet, which is very high in omega-6 fatty acids but has only trace amounts of omega-3 fatty acids. A second group of rats was raised on a diet that contained an appreciable amount of LNA (the omega-3 essential fat). When tested in a simple maze, the rats raised on safflower oil made the right choice only 60% of the time, compared with a 90% success rate for rats whose diets contained an adequate amount of omega-3 fatty acids. Other studies have shown similar results. Further, it has been shown that omega-3 fatty acids help humans learn and remember. Human breast milk contains DHA (an omega-3 fatty acid), but infant formulas do not. Studies have documented that breast-fed babies have better visual acuity and scored higher on many tests designed to measure learning.[iii] In short, there have been ample studies with both animals and humans that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that those provided with a good blend of essential fatty acids in the diet were capable of better learning and were happier with improved mental state. I must wonder if the behavioral problems encountered among African Greys, including phobia and feather picking, might not frequently be at least a partial result of inadequate fatty acid levels in the diet. Given this, coupled with the fact that Greys evolved to enjoy optimal health eating a diet high in palm oil, as well as native plants, in their native habitat, I do believe we should examine the wisdom of making sure that Greys get an adequate amount of fat, specifically essential fatty acids, in their captive diets. I believe it of no coincidence that the Greys I encounter who seem not to feel very well often are eating a 100% pelleted diet, usually a chemically-dyed, extruded pellet. According to Simopoulos, “If you foraged your food from the wild, it would be impossible to be deficient in this nutrient because it would be present in virtually everything you ate.”[iv] The author is referring to the plant-based form of omega-3 fatty acids – LNA. The omega-3 fatty acids are easily destroyed by light, air, and heat. Pellets therefore are exceptionally poor sources of these nutrients. If we look at the need to insure that the diet of domestic Greys contains adequate levels of some sort of fat or oil, we have to go back to the assertion that all fats are not created equal. I have had it suggested to me that we should use palm oil for this purpose of supplementation, since it is closest to what Greys eat in the wild. However, I remain unconvinced, although I think that occasional supplementation with this product could be beneficial due to its high vitamin A content. However, palm oil is largely saturated fat, as are most vegetable fats grown near equatorial regions. Wild parrots that are engaged in strenuous daily flying exercise would easily metabolize this type of saturated fat. However, in looking at ways to supplement our domestic Greys, we must recognize the very different, sedentary lifestyle they now have. Perhaps our own species can serve as an example here. Whereas man once ate the saturated fat of the animals he killed without adverse effect on his health because of the physically challenging existence he led, he now flirts with the probability of death from heart disease if eating a diet high in saturated fat. Thus, for the moment, I prefer to supplement my Greys with unsaturated fats high in essential fatty acids. Seeds are a natural source of oils and essential fatty acids, but should be limited to about 10% of the diet I think, because of the poor calcium/phosphorus ratio they contain, as well as the lack of other important nutrients. I think the best solution lies with the provision of abundant fresh vegetables, some nuts and seeds, and very small amounts of a high quality oil blend, the sort sold as a nutritional supplement in health food stores. Found in the refrigerator section of the health food store, these products usually contain some blend of oils such as flax seed oil, borage oil, pumpkin seed oil, evening primrose oil, etc. Commonly found brands include Udo’s Perfected Oil Blend, Spectrum Essentials, and Arrowhead Mills. An appropriate “dose” for supplementation with such an oil blend would be between two and six drops per day. This can be put on a piece of toast or other absorbent bread or treat. The data comes from Holistic Birds: The Study - These are the results of an approximately two-month study done on seven African Greys. The study was not performed over a long enough period or with enough birds of various species to be treated as authoritative, but it does present some interesting findings. However, what may be applicable to high-fat consuming species like the African grey would not necessarily be applicable to a species that is sensitive to excess lipids. Use this information with caution with other species. The Parrots - Four of the Greys were Congos, and three were Timnehs. All were in good health at the time the study commenced and weighed between 250 and 450 grams. All of the birds were on healthy, varied diets including various combinations of pellets, seeds, nuts, and fresh foods. None showed any nutritional deficiencies or feather abnormalities during the study, although one had previously presented with a calcium deficiency. The average age of the birds was 4.36 years, with the youngest bird being 1.5 years and the oldest being 10 years. Five of the birds lived in multi-bird households. Out of the seven birds that were offered the oil, five took to it readily, one would only take it in oatmeal, and the last (the youngest participating bird) would only take it occasionally and from a syringe. All four Congos took to it readily, with the reluctant birds being bothTimnehs, ages 1.5 and 6 years. The most successful method of administration, used by all six who were able to consistently feed the oil, was mixed in soft foods like mash, veggies, and bread. The average dosage, from limited feedback on this topic, was ¼ teaspoon every other day. All six birds that were given the oil on a regular basis showed physical improvement at the conclusion of the trial period (two months for four and 1 year for the remaining two). These numbers overlap considerably. * Five birds showed smoother beaks/feet. * Five birds showed improved color. * Four of the birds showed less dry/softer skin. * Three of the birds were less dusty, and * One showed less scratching. These things could simply result from the higher fat content in the diet, or they could be a reflection of the high level of carotenes, Vitamin E, and co-enzyme Q10 present in the oil. All owners involved in the study said that they would continue to use the oil in the future. Red Palm Oil has many valuable uses for the bird in need of a diet that is higher in fat or improved feather quality. It may have some interesting applications for pluckers. Ryker timneh pretty boy jo For more information on the study, you may join the Yahoo! eGroup entitled Red_Palm_Oil to speak directly with the people involved with the study or you may e-mail me at Jawzmyster@msn.com with specific questions or to request a complete copy of the results. If you would like more information on Red Palm Oil, I would be happy to respond to questions sent to the above e-mail address to the best of my knowledge or I can provide some helpful links. Addendum Just after the above article was submitted, I received some fairly dramatic results from the only cockatoo to participate in our study. This bird was an 11 year old Moluccan and a confirmed plucker and screamer. He took the oil as well as the greys, also usually in oatmeal. He began the Red Palm Oil at the same time as he began taking a course of oral antibiotics and wearing an Elizabethan collar. In two months, his feather quality and the condition of his beak have improved, and he has regained most of the feathers on his chest. The regrowth of feathers may be due mostly to the collar, but his owner feels that the former improvements are most likely the result of the palm oil. She will continue to use it, adjusting his diet to compensate for the additional fat (at the advice of her veterinarian).

Wonderful news Caroline!! I am so happy for you and Tully. :-) Looking forward to hearing all the updates on how he is progressing.

Thanks Sheila! Thats what I suspected at that age. So this dispels the "Myth" by producers of pellets that if your bird is NOT on them, they will die younger due to lack of proper nutrition. :-) It is also why I do not try to force an unnatural pelleted diet on my birds. Nothing is better than what nature provides. However, the key is the owners must provide a well rounded diet to ensure they are naturally receiving all the vitamins, minerals and oils they need for good health. It's too bad most owners of old parrots are themselves aged and not active on the internet. They could provide very valuable insight and data to all Parrot owners.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/01/28 14:06