Dave007

You shouldn't worry about it though. Any cage that's SS is fine to use. You shouldn't have any problems with it. How about your knives and forks and spoons? Not the best SS but they last and last and they go through a lot more wear and tear than a bird cage and they have plenty of chemicals on them throughout their lifetime.

Depends upon the manufacterer. Different companies, different places. The literature that comes with a new SS cage should also have the grading printed on it.

Well, a few things here especially since he's getting older Toys-----many birds, when they're babies, will show lots of interest in new toys for short periods of time and they also get tired of some those toys quickly or temporally. You can't expect your bird to constantly play all the time. They mske up their own timeouts. Another thing about toys----this is more in line with parrots, especially greys. After a while, an owner finds that they've wasted lots of money on toys because a bird starts focusing in on certain things and avoids other things. Many people eventually see that the simpliest handmade, unattractive toys are what peaks their interest-example wood. So, the expensive toys are put away. Of course, those expensive toys can be left there and sometimes the bird is attracted to it. It's called variety. The same thing happens with kids. So, I wouldn't be so alarmed at him ignoring certain things. A very young bird can easily get frightened if something unnatural has happened such as an accident. falling off of things can cause that in a baby bird because it still hasn't gotten the total ability to deal with the unexpected. They can also get frightened if things like toys are moved around. You'll see this as time goes on although as they get older, those different things that go on concerning fright usually is replaced by ignoring the situation. Right now, you're doing the wrong thing by putting all of those new toys all around him. That can increase his nervousness. You look upon those things as toys. The pet shop calls those things toys but that doesn't mean the bird looks upon them as toys. Maybe it is something up there that he doesn't like or is a bit afraid of. You'll need to leave him alone and let him show curiousity in those things when he's ready to. ""I feel bad that he is on his cage 24/7 and now he won't even go on top of it. """ That's something that can happen naturally ( lack of interest) or a bit of fear which makes him wanna stay in a secure place, namely the cage, until he's ready to go back to the way it was. Wings----Molting and losing wings is two different things. Flight feathers and tail feathers die and fall out all year long with no regularity. The feather's blood supply dies and the feather is replaced. Molting is a process that happen once or twice a year and about 90% of the rest of the feathers fall off and are replaced by new ones . Usually, you can't see theose new ones except on the head and neck. As far as how long the flight feathers will come back, well, thet depends upon which wing feathers were closer to dying before being clipped. So, some will be visible when coming in while others will remain until they die and fall off. It's a very uneven process and for some birds it can take anywhere from 4 to 8 mts or more when all of the feathers are back evenly. Introducing new toys---very slowly and very few at a time. Next time, double think about clipping him and wherever there's a problem, you'll have to bird proof that area. Lots of people have to bird proof areas.

I you're thinking about getting the best quality SS, then that would be surgical grade ( type 304). Cages usually have the type that's used imprinted on it. Type 304 stainless steel and it's usued for the food and dairy industry, beverage industries, chemical processing equipment, heat exchangers, household appliances such as stoves, dishwashers, counter tops, sinks etc. Any rust that develops is usually from an external source and it only needs to be scrubbed off. Rust remover isn't necessary and it can't be used on bird cages anyway. As far as quality, well I really don't know if they use that extremely high quality SS but just think about all of the food/water bowls made of SS in pet stores. It's not the best quality but resists water, droppings etc. The droppings are about the most acidic item item in a bird cage and it doesn't affect any type of SS. Oh, I forgot, the high grade SS also used in construction when building homes.

Visit http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190393-broken-beak!!-Advice-please What happened to your bird is nothing serious. Vet visit is probably not necessary but if it makes you feel better, go.

I'm real happy that things are going well. Keep up the good work.

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"""That area has been like that for 4 days now and I don't see the other area starting to get like that."""" There is such a thing as a partial molt or partial dryness. You said nothing has changed for 4 days. I get the impression that that ragged area also hasn't changed but if he was plucking, that ragged area would be slowly spreading across the breast. A bird who temporarily pulls out feathers and then simply stops isn't a chronic plucker. He's an acute plucker. The difference is that a chronic plucker will pullthe feathers out constantly and for a long time everytime a new feather/feathers grow in. Sometimes it lasts for years. Sometimes, through out the bird's life. An acute plucker is a bird who will pull out feathers for a short period of time and then stop. What causes that bird to do it? Hard to answer. Some sort of fright. A bad disagreeable event in the house. Being high strung for a while. Or dry skin or lack of humidity. There's lots of things but they can't be pinned down. Keep an eye out. It looks like a bout of acute plucking. At least that's what I'm seeing and also going by what you say.

First off, let's put some things to rest. Issac isn't phobic. That happens with older birds who've experienced many negative situations over a long period of time. Usually, the relationship with the owner had some serious ups and downs as the bird got much older. His bird is playing. No more, no less. With a very young bird, he's hasn't had the chance to develop phobias. What's happening with his bird happens to countless young parrots. Hundreds of people who have this happen with their birds immediately start searching their minds and start thinking abiut the wonderful things they did with their bird from the time they brought the bird home. Eventually, when people don't get common sense answers to the problem, they start blaming themselves. Many people don't like hearing that their cuddly little sweetheart is now showing signs of being a parrot which is many cases involves nipping. Then what happens is that the person has to learn all about the next stage of the bird growing up. Some people think it's dominnation. Listen, a bird flies around and finally it's time to land. Does the bird intentionally go to the floor and nibble on shoes and socks? No, it simply flies around until there's a good landing spot. What better item to land on which is familar, secure, safe, comfortable?---A shoulder. What better place is there to nip at? An area that has nice soft ear lobes, a neck, clothing, jewelry? --A shoulder. Spooking Issac? I doubt it.Not what he just did but unintentional reactions to what an owner just did. It's called natural reflex actions to something that just happened to the person. Spoiling the bird? Yes, Elvenking spoils the hell out of his bird. Is that bad? Absolutely not. A good parrot owner wants the best for his bird and goes overboard with the spoiling in treating and looking at his bird as the greatest invention since the lightbulb. Will Elvenking get nipped at in the future? Probably, but I guarantee you that he'll be much more aware of what the bird is doing now that he knows there was nothing personal on the bird's part that caused an attack. If he doesn't try to be more aware, I'll kick his ass. It's another part of the learning process between the owner and the bird. Will things that are done in the future to deter the bird from doing that have success instantly? I doubt it. It'll take a little time. Parrots are willful, especially young ones. Young birds find that learning how to be a parrot is much more alluring and attractive than worrying about deterence. I've received very bad reactions and attitudes from people when it's time to tell them that shoulders are off limits. Not their wonderful cuddly sweet little birds!!! But eventually they see that it's the only way to go because there's no way to train a bird to get rid of that habit simply because that habit has to do with instinct. There is one way to stop it though--violence. I'm sure good parrot people don't wanna be violent to their birds. So it's good to learn about things that are more logical and problems won't last as long as they were in the past.

That's about 60 degrees fahrenheit and you can get away with that but make sure the cage is completely covered at night with a thick item such as a blanket to prevent cold gusts from hitting her.

Just about every parrot owner has had this happen in one form or another to a lesser or greater degree. Your bird is simply acting his age. He's extremely young and as time goes on, you'll be seeing different new things about him. Things you'll find nice and not so nice. Right now, you're seeing that he manuevers very well, can land very well and can get nippy at times for no reason at all. He's basically playing with you. He's not dominating you. The word *domination* is used much too often for so many things in which it doesn't apply. This is one of them. If you're not watching your bird while he's flying around he will do things to his play partner( you) just like you did when you were a kid. You should try to intercept him by having him land on your arm but in order for that to happen, you've gotta be watching him. That's basic training. Don't allow him on your shoulders anymore because he's showing that he's the type of bird that will eventually nip at an ear, maybe jewelry, collars on clothing etc when he gets older. He's showing signs that he's a *no shoulder bird*. There's plenty of birds here that fall into that catagory. All of the great things you do with and for him has nothing to do with what he's periodically doing and there's nothing you can do in the future that will stop him from playing this game if he's the type of bird that's he's inclined to be. He'll need to be given time outs and put into his cage when he gets to a point of when he bugs you out. You're in that period of time where you need to be watchful when he's all over the place. """If he lands and nips at my hand..I will just fling him up and he flys away.""" That's not the right way to handle the situation. You're only acknowleging to him that he can fly. Instead of flinging him away, it's the time for a short stay in that cage. Any biting behavior needs to be addressed by breaking the bird's attention concerning what he's doing. This is something you'll need to work on immediately because what he's doing will only intensify as he ages and your frustration and anger may increase and as you well know, you can't actually *punish* a bird as you can with a domestic animal. You're new with greys so it would be a good idea the check out the thread concerning Body Language which your bird will show in the future. Some people say to put the bird in a cage and give him the evil eye and say NO!! Well, it works and at other times it doesn't. Eventually, your bird will slow down but nipping at a person but your bird won't do it as often as soon as he realizes that * the thrill is gone* for him. That comes with age. 1---I pay a ton of attention to him. Say tonight...I gave him treats...took good care of him..he was all happy.* 2---i do nothing but care for his every need None of what he's doing has anything to do with the above and it's always a big surprise to people who finally realize that no matter what fantastic things they do, a parrot will act like a parrot. It's part of owning a parrot. Just about everyone here has been bitten by their bird/birds at one time or another but it diminishes as a parrot ages unless there's specific underlying problems but right now, your very young, immature, playful bird is simply going through the process of feeling what it's like to be a parrot. It's necessary that you learn these things because as you say, you're unpredictible as far as what you may do or how you'll react. It's not a good idea to have a short fuse with a wild animal such as a parrot.

It's good that you realize that your grey takes up alot of your time and attention which should tell you 1---don't get a macaw unless you can provide loads of attention and time and a massive space and cage for it and lots of freedom out of that cage. 2---don't get the largest parrot that exists which is a macaw. 3---don't get a macaw which can possibly cause trouble for you in your house and trouble for your grey and other members of the family. If you are new to parrots and are in the process trying to build up a very close relation with your grey, a macaw as well as other large parrots can upset your plan of action. Someone who has dealt with macaws for quite a while can deal with them. They'd be the first people to say a person who is a newbie in the parrot world should stay away from a macaw if a person hasn't a complete knowledge of parrots. A newbie person needs a lot of experience learning about parrots in general before taking on a macaw. 4---Don't get a macaw because you find that the beauty of the macaw is lovely to the eye because that'll become minor after you deal with it. 5---Don't get a macaw if you're new to the world of medium sized parrots because even medium sized parrots can be a handful. 6---Don't get a macaw if you can't tolerate an extremely loud bird. Macaws don't know what a low pitch is since they don't have one. They've been known to bother neighbors. 7---Don't get a macaw if you're very leery of getting bitten by that huge beak. They can break a finger and they know when you're leery of them. 8---Don't get a macaw if you have no idea of what kind of the personality each type has. Different macaws have totally different personalities which dictates which one an experienced person decides on. Different personalities also dictate which is a family bird and which isn't. One of the most aggressive yet one of the most stunningly beautiful macaws is the Scarlett macaw. They aren't a family bird. Greys, Amazons, Ekkies are considered medium sized birds. Cockatoos are considered medium to medium large sized parrots Macaws are considered large to largest sized parrots

Most greys can't crack open almonds or walnuts. Some are too hard or big or just not soft enough for the shell to be cracked. An easy way to accomplish that is simply take the almond and crack off the pointier end. As far a walnuts, simply crack the walnut in half and feed 1/2 ppiece at a time. Doing both nuts this way allows the bird to hold it and eat out the insides of either nut. It greatly lessens the chances of the bird dropping it.

I agree with Judy as far as the actual eating. I don't think I ever saw a bird eat newspaper but I have seen birds who put things in their mouth and after a while, it seems like they've swallowed it. One of my greys likes to take a feather, partially grey, partially fluffy white. He puts in his mouth and wets it up and starts to roll it in the upper beak. Sometimes I don;t see it for a long time. The only thing I see is the upper and lower beaks slightly moving and I see a tiny part of his tongue but no feather. Much later on, I see a very tiny ball at the tip of the beak and just like that it's gone. He's dropped it although I don't see him doing that. So just maybe, he didn't swallow it. Parrots rarely eat foreign objects with the intention of swallowing them. The only other possiblity is that he came across some very exciting news on that paper and simply didn't wanna let you in on it. Maybe concealing the evidence? Lottery numbers?

From now on, any specific instructions concerning hand feeding unweaned babies , formula ingredients, amounts and/or methods to use, amounts of time that passes until weaning is actually reached and or completed, should only be done person to person by Email or Personal Message . This is to deter other novice or potential bird buyers from thinking that buying unweaned chicks is a nice idea because they think that from what they read and/or seen, the period of hand feeding formula up until weaning is easy or attractive after reading public information from many people who may give many opinions or variations which does happen on public forums. This also has to do with the fact that all unweaned birds are different sizes, different ages, have specific needs and instructions which should be personalized between the person who gives instructions and the owners of unweaned chicks concerning information or specific problems that may arise. Any specific information concerning the hand feeding or hand feeding problems arising with an unweaned chick should be provided by either the information provider or the information receiver by private correspondence . More than likely, better and more accurate information will be shared. The reason for this change is because people will receive one set of directions only which will benefit the health and welfare of an unweaned chick. Concerning this subject of unweaned birds, there's too many cooks in the kitchen.

Feces of all types contain ingredients that will eat into the finish of any metal it lingers on. On some cages it causes eventual rust when the paint is very thin. That also applies to fecal matter that's gets on clothes, furniture. If feces isn't taken off of those items instantly, a permanent bleached out stain will remain for good. Birds excrete fecal matter all day long which is one of the reasons that a cover/catcher is needed. Other things also fall into the tray. Many things cause bacteria to develop. A bird who's splashing around in a bowl will soak the tray and there needs to be something there to partially absorb it. You can try something other than newspaper if that makes you feel better.

If your cage has a grating, it's best to use it in the cage. Many birds will go to the tray and eat many different things, some good, some bad such as food that's stuck to feces. If the newspaper was in the cage above the grating area, then the newspaper should be removed.

25% vinegar mixed with 75% water is great for cleaning cages. Many people use it and whatever odor is left by the solution disappears quickly. Works just as good if not better than commercial cage cleaners. It's a great cleaner and takes away general odors from a cage but *deodorizing Paco's cage*? Deodorizers usually just mask the smell so it may be important to find out where the smell is actually coming from. Percent of vinegar can vary.

You should spray your bird will cool water all over the breast area and keep an eye on that area and the rest of the breast area for a few days. If the other area that still has feathers remains the same and doesn't start looking raggy like whats in the the picture, then your bird is plucking, more than likely from very itchy or dry skin but if that area starts to look messy and raggy within a few days, your bird is molting.

You can always try it out but even though the second pair was friendlier doesn't make them better pets than the first pair. ""If a pair had extensive human interaction in the past, before becoming a breeding pair, would that make a significant difference in their behavior later on? Would they be pet friendly? """ That's very hard to answer but I doubt that there would be a drastic difference. Those breeder birds are happiest with each other, in their own cage. You need to know that the birds may have been more friendly when they were younger but they did convert. Each had to have a breeding instinct. Another thing here---this particular pair seems friendlier than the other pair but no matter what any of her bird's personalities are, you need to realize that they had those personalities in HER home. What will happen when they're rehomed? Very hard to answer that and I wouldn't wanna aim you in the wrong direction or produce guesswork. I'm just trying to give an all around picture of the things you actually spoke about. Honestly, maybe think twice about getting them or get them but just realize that they'll need other requirements unlike pet greys. You sais it perfectly in your original post """"I do understand that breeder birds are not for household use, as in they are not ment to be handeled like your normal pet African Grey. """"" To try to give you an idea of pet and breeder greys---hypothetical, --it's possible that if a person owns a pet grey ( lets say a male) and that person brought home a breeder grey ( lets say a female) and the person put them together, there's a chance that the female breeder would seriously maim or even try to kill the pet grey. Same species but a world of difference between the two. PS---I'm not saying you're gonna do this. Just wanted to show personalities.

Breeder greys are totally different than pet greys. Most can't be *tamed*. For a long time, each developed bond with each other. People weren't involved. Those are the best types of birds to have if breeding is involved. Both breeder CAGs and TAGs are the same. Even if you were to take one pair and separate the birds, whatever attitude and personality they presently have will remain the same. More than likely each bird will become more aggressive. I'm gonna assume that the woman was successful with her breeding pairs of birds which means they're adult birds now and have developed that bond over a long period of time and have excluded people. If you're getting them for breeding purposes, you'll need to have money, good equipment, a connection to an excellent vet and having them will change things for you drastically. Anyone whos taking on a pair of breeder greys should know that the pair won't act like pets because of their long bond with each other. It's good that you are familar with dealing with other types of parrots but dealing with breeders is a totally different and sometimes it is a disappointing experience if what you're looking to do is try to convert them into pets.

Putting any type of material that's actually used or stimulates a bird to build nests of any type is a bad idea. Hay of any brand is ideal to a bird. That pertains to young and adult birds. Birds who are pets and breeding birds who aren't pets will react the same way with nesting material around them. Many people have problems with their birds in the future concerning nesting behavior and those people haven't ever used any nesting material throughout the bird's life. Birds can latch on to many things to go through nesting behavior. It can possibly stimulate infertile egg production, aggressive behavior when trying to remove it. That happens with adult birds. It may be cute right now but doing that is messing around in possibly unknown territory.

Quite a lot of parrots enjoy formula way past the time owners think the bird should be finished with it. Formula can't hurt and if it's good formula, it can actually benefit the bird in physical and psycholical ways. The big problem is not enough formula in the beginning, not too much and body function will never be affected. After a certain amount of time has passed and he's still taking it, look upon it as you would feel about oatmeal. Many love oatmeal and it's harmless. So, you really shouldn't worry about it in the future.

Hard to say. Maybe right now, your bird may be just acting curious. As he gets older he may become aggressive with it, or hang out with it or hemay lose interest but it's something that you need to keep an eye on. If he's banging his beak on it lightly, as time goes on he may just increase the power of the banging into the mirror and cause beak injuries or nare injuries.