Dave007

Like I said, it's up to you. If you feel better having deposits on 2 birds then do it. I wouldn't say that you were rash, just scared because you were frustrated and felt that you didn't know what to do. That's what this board is for. We try to help.

Nothing you've been talking about and describing doesn't fit **a special needs bird**

Yes, you should interact with him--see your picture of him being on your arm? Take that arm and put it right next to your body, put your other hand on his other side so that if he slips a bit , he;ll go against your chest or against your other hand. While he's on you, pet him gently on the head. Keep him close. Playstands are usually put into use after a bird comes home. When a bird comes home, he/she has to first get used to a new cage, new toys, new people, new environment, new visuals. It would be very easy to tell that person to let him get dexterity in her cage. I don't really see why she would give you a hard time. Past experiences----many birds are sold prematurely. Many things should be developed before the bird comes home. Most serious problems occur when sick birds are sold. As far as putting a deposit on another bird..that's not something I would comment on because you're the only one that has contact with the seller, with the bird. She has to give you a report on your bird. You also need to sit with her and discuss a deposit on another bird. It's a question that strangers shouldn't answer just because they've had a good or bad experience in the past. I know I won't answer that. To make you feel better, a 13 wk old grey is a very young grey and it does need some personal attention after being in with CAGs. Believe it or not, baby birds can be very aggressive with each other and all it takes is who gets to the food first.

I agree with just about everything the store owner said. Yes, bullying happens especially when CAGs and TAGs are mixed together. Just like weaning, many birds need to stay on formula for longer amounts of time. In your case, the bird needs a longer amount of time concerning dexterity and confidence. You can't expect things to instantly change because he's now in his own cage. It's only been 4 days. She said he climbed--good sign. He's prerching in the cage---good sign The only thing I disagree with is the playstand. A young bird who has dexterity problems, perching problems, clumsy shouldn't be put on a playstand. A very young bird develops much better in the confines of his own cage which he feels safe in.

Judy http://www.chacha.com/question/are-cashew-nuts-really-nuts

Zoom, for Kazoo you can buy the same almonds in the shell that are human grade. That may make a difference. If your other bird( Simon) likes unshelled almonds in general, he'll love human grade too. If you have any other birds, they'll love them too. My quakers like all types of nuts. With them, I have to shell the almonds because the almond shells are too big for them to hold on to and they don't have the power to crack such a strong shell.

All are good with almonds topping the list. Giving them unshelled is the best way to go and if the walnut won't crack properly, just put in a bowl and as you say, she'll find a way. Cashews aren't nuts. They're less nutritious then *nuts* so go easy with them.

The white poop is simply urination--it's white/sometimes clear, has very little green color if any and as a bird gets older it comes out consistently ( approx every 45 min to 1 hr) and throughout the day. Each amount is usually small. As far as him avoiding or tiring of certain foods, it's simply that he doesn't want them. Do you think that you can eat your favorite food --example steak, 7 days a week throughout the whole day? As far as diet---greys and other parrots tire of different food concoctions periodically. Actually the items you're feeding your bird consistently isn't necessary nor is it ideal. You need to go back to the history of greys---African greys are wild animals. Your grey is a wild animal and will remain so until it dies whether he's a pet or not. In the wild, greys and other parrots don't eat sweet potatoes, organic baby food (fruit), carrot juice, and spirulina, homemade with organic corn flour and oat flour, a little peanut butter. This is information that's been passed down from parrot owners througout the years over long periods of time. Luckily, a grey won't get sick from some of these things. Another fact that's been passed down concerns pellets. Pellets are artificial and for the past 3 yrs many studies have been done and it's been found that many chemicals in pellets aren't as good as a person may think. They're man made. Unfortuntly, many people take the most important vitamin enriched food that parrots eat and break them up and use it for training purposes. That item is nuts. Rumors have been handed down that too many nuts are harmful to a grey. Well, when a flock of greys fly off in the morning, the first place they go to is where all the palm nuts are. They eat everything in the nut including the oily substance that surrounds the nuts and they eat a lot of them. Ever see a flock of greys flying and looking for food? None of them ever start looking for a pellet tree because they don't exist. You should stop giving baby food and carrot juice. Peanut butter is alright but nuts should be given whole. Nuts are a natural food that's eaten in the wild. Veggies should be given whole/solid. Organic baby food (fruit) causes loose bowel movements. Any fruit does. So, very little should be given. Once a week at the most and they should be solid. Are all of these nuts harmful? Well, I have 3 greys--Every morning each get 3 almonds unshelled, 1 walnut split in half and if I have some hazelnuts, they get them too and none of these items are given for training purposes. I give them because of their healthy benefits.

Well, first off you're talking about tiels. What tiels and most other parrots have in common as far as feeding is that the crop should be empty before the next feeding is given. Doing that guarantees that the bird is getting the same exact amount of formula as the previous feeding. With some birds, the crop stays fuller for a while. The next bird may swallow quickly. All are different. Personally, I think that interfering with the swallowing time isn't a good idea. It's very easy to see the difference between a empty and full crop. I can show you pictures of empty and full crops. ****After every feed (Which I try every 4 hours and only give her from 1-2ccs depending on how much her crop has gone down) we message her crop. Then every hour on the hour, more if we can, we message.**** I have no idea why you're doing that. Did someone tell you to massage the crop?? Doing that may cause a bird to choke. A bulge in the crop should stay just like that----a bulge that very slowly disappears. It needs no coaxing or pushing or massaging unless something drastic is happening. So far , you mention nothing that makes me think that something drastic is happening. A bird who's being fed will eventually refuse formula when it gets full. That's nature at work. Will you continue to eat after you're full?? My question is, how often should the crop empty??? I have heard 24 hours, I have heard 3 hours. Is it ok that it isnt emptying all the way, yet still empties some?**** There is no set time. The crop should be visually empty before the next feeding. If you're giving 4 feeding, the you need to stay at 4 feedings. You should be feeding just because the crop is empty. You need to follow a set pattern. Any baby bird will show that 's hungry by moving around a little. A bird who's been fed will go to sleep and eventually wake up and become restless and will move around a bit. That sleep time is the time the food in the crop is slowing going into the stomach. Concerning the amount of formula given at each meal---I don't know the amount of formula that a tiel gets. That's something you have to ask your vet about. He knows the age, size of , type of formula and the amount of feedings the bird should be receiving and how to feed the bird. He should also be telling you what to do and more importantly,what not to do. You should be questioning him and cover the whole thing with him. That's what he's being paid for. The info you've been hearing or reading is very general and even worse, contradictory. ***The vet told me that I didn't have her at the right temp and to just make sure the crop drains.....**** I'm sure he didn't tell you to push formula down it's throat after being fed. Formula that goes into the stomach takes time. 2 pictures below-- 1-----2 birds with empty crops 2-----2 of the same birds with full crops It took 2 to 3 hrs for the bird's crops to empty. I didn't push the food down their throats. Where's the third bird?? He was still sleeping and a bird who's been fed and is sleeping afterward shouldn't be disturbed. They were all fed at the same time. The birds are awake and are looking and waiting for their next feeding. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofCopyofCHRIS1-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/May22b-1.jpg

Judy, Talon, there's nothing wrong with your phones. I went to those sites and all I got was a white screen so I'm gonna assume that there's a glitch somewhere. But to the person who wants to trace the info on the band, go to this site and it'll give a long thorough explanation about leg bands. It's also gonna show you why you may be able or not be able to get info on the band that you want and that has to do with the loads of different information on the band. Many people put different things on the bands and it isn't against the law. Read it thoroughly. Good luck. http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww5eiii.htm

Different breeders put different lettering on their bands. Numbers/letters are accurate on closed bands which are put on a chick's leg before it's 10 days to 2 weeks. The problem is what's on the band so check out these links and see if you can get accurate info. Legband Information http://buddysfriends.com/registry.html http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text/lewis/bands.html http://www.afa.birds.org/fastnews/98/may.html http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww5eiii.htm http://www.redbirdproducts.com/ http://gnoexpo.com/band_registration/ http://members.aol.com/PacificASC/artpg932.htm

It'a very wise thing to go to the vet to have those tests done. Drastic calcium changes can cause seizures. Emergency clinics aren't necessary. More than likely she won't have anymore before monday *****Could the stress of the trip, even though she seemed to have enjoyed past trips, been enough to cause this?**** Possibly or it could have been that * it was her time*. Epileptics go through this all the time. Remission is difficult with epileptics. Your vet will probably do a thourgh exam. There may even be more tests necessary. Let the vet do whatever tests that he feels are necessary.

For greys, sexual maturity begins at age of 5 yrs and up but first time breeder greys usually aren't successful until they're about 6 yrs old. If you're having any iseas about breeding your pet bird, don't. Breeders don't have any bonds with their human owners only with the other mate. Most have never been pet birds. They make the best breeders and will normally have no bond with people. Putting a pet grey in with a breeder grey usually ends up with the breeder grey seriously maiming or even killing the pet bird. A pet grey has a human imprint on it and breeders know it.

Bird Talk really isn't the most accurate parrot magazine. 65% advertising--35% bird articles but sometimes they give out info that's good for newbies. They don't get into the specifics of each species of parrots. Very general info. As far as the cuddling during mating season---most parrots shouldn't be touched in certain parts of their bodies from the day they come home as babies until they pass away. No matter what the age, they'll get excited 1---at a very young age has to do with memories/ contact with hens that fed them. That's the regurgitating that happens. Huffing an puffing goes on. 2---as they get older, ( 1,2,3,4 yrs old) the bird becomes sexually aware. The bird is excited but can't do anything about it because he's no where near the breeding age. He simply knows that it feels good and may bite an owner if the owner decides to stop. It's not a good idea to do this to any parrot. 3---After the age of 5 the bird becomes sexually mature ---mating can happen but a person who has a pet parrot never does such a thing because of the loss of human to bird bonding. At that time, bad moods occur especially with females and males to a lesser degree. The female wants to be left alone and will/may seriously bite if interfered with. That's the time to leave the bird alone. As far as warm foods---warm foods are given all the time and their diet should remain the same. When hormonal changes happen during certain parts of the year, it doesn't matter what they're eating.

Yes, that's one way to do it. There's many ways to do it but the whole thing here is that your bird is telling you *enough, I'm a woman now*!!!!!. It sounds like her time is coming. It's great that she eats all other things too so the smaller amount or the lack of one complete formula feeding shouldn't be any big deal. As far as a bird taking or wanting some in the future, that's no big deal either. Loads of birds do it. Give some flavored instant oatmeal too. They love it.

Abundance feeding has no time limit. It could be 3 mt or 4 or 5 or 6 mts. The basic idea behind abundance feeding is to let the bird tell the owner when it doesn't want a feeding of formula. A bird who is still using formula may very well be eating just about anything else too. If your bird is spitting up the formula, that's a sign to cut down 1 feeding of formula. When the spitting up occurs again, the next feeding is cut down. I have no idea how old your bird is but in the case of abundance feeding, age makes no difference. Abundance feeding makes for a healthier, calmer bird in the future.

Deciding to purchase a parrot ( any parrot) because of a good relationship and long experiences with rats isn't the right thing to do here. Parrots depend on a person and if that's not done, a parrot will suffer and other people can correct the problem but the difference between parrots and rats is totally different. A rat or rats depend upon a person because that's where it gets it's food, bedding and possibly toys but if those rats escape from their confined areas, they would definitely go back to their natural ways and would proceed to slowly destroy things in your house and would breed easily and the new rats would never be seen. They can easily find substitutes for your food and water and there isn't anything that can be done because the rat/rats are doing things that they're born to do. The same type of behavior can be applied to people who hoard cats ( 15--20). The cats are loose, can find hiding spots, will easily breed and the new cats will stay feral and proceed to destroy things in a house because they can't be tracked down. They can even die and the owners of these cats won't even know it because the cats are in areas where they can't be seen and they have no desire to make human contact. They too will find things to eat. Those types of cats can eventually spread illness. Rats will do the same thing when they escape from their confined areas and then go back to their natural ways. ***They depend on you - whole their life is in your hands. Rats need people atention,**** That only applies to rats who are confined. The owner is the one that sets up that situation. That can apply to mice too. Rats don't need baths. It's the people who own them that are displeased with their odor. 98% of people who intend to get greys but know nothing about them are usually told to buy other parrots ( smaller ones) to learn about the world of parrots ****If they find something new - they use to run away with the new thing and hide it in some safe place (best - in the cage). And then - the thing is theirs. The parrots are the same, aren´t they?***** No they don't do things like that because a rat and a parrot are totally different species of animals. They have nothing in common with each other so spend time investigating birds and don't let any relationship with rats influence your decision. Start fresh and pretend that you've never had any rats and you;ll make a better decision.

With a macaw, there really isn't much you can do concerning the coating. Yes, bitter apple is safe but I should tell you that many birds aren't bothered by it especially after it dries. Bitter apple is more useful on items that can absorb it such as wood. If you aren't thinking about replacing the cage (another powder coated) then you'll need to watch the areas very carefully and don't let rust develop. Concerning replacing a cage--especially for a macaw---you can purchase a stainless steel cage but they cost a fortune. Stainless steel is rustproof and has no coating on it. It's chew proof. They're made to last forever.

More than likely, she's bored, doesn't like being in her cage all day and has a lot of time to focus on chewing or plucking feathers. Diet, although it isn't the best really doesn't cause chewing or plucking. Yes, it's a good idea to take your bird to a vet to check for infections or rashes that may have occured. Aggressive preener? I doubt it. Some greys are very high wire and over preen from nervousness. Bathing?--greys are well known for their extremely dry skin and not bathing often will inhance that dry skin and cause a grey to over preen or chew or pluck feathers. What you should do----right now, go to walmart or duifferent pharmacies and purchase 100% ALOE VERA JUICE . Use it as a spray. Use it full strength and try to soak as much of the skin as possible. Do it daily. Toys---change a few new toys. Different wood toys are a good idea. Try out some of these things and see if you see a difference. BTW--put ssome music or cartoons on the TV when you're gone for the day.

There's really nothing going on that's unusual. There's a big difference between a 5mt old grey and an 11mt old grey. As far as agression towards items that are his---greys are well known for getting very aggressive with toys. They yell, scream, bite at their toys and other items in the cage. To someone who doesn't know about this, it can be very scary to see this. Actually, your bird is playing with his things and that's the way they like it. If there was a bell in the cage you'd see very aggressive behavior towards it and at the end of the day you'll see him cuddling next to the bell. As far as biting your GF and other family members, now is the time to socialize your bird with others in your house. A bird who stops at 6 PM isn't usually going after people all the time. They would stay aggressive way past 6 PM. Everyone needs to be involved with your bird so that it can understand that there are no enemies. If your bird only likes you, that's even more reason to get everyone involved. One other thing----as the bird gets older ( 11 mts and older) they wanna be left alone more so than a baby bird. It no longer will wanna cuddle as much. They become aloof, independent birds. It's one of the things that bother people because they don't know the personality changes that are going on and will continue to go on. This is simply a response to changes your bird is going through.

It's gonna be very difficult to do that. Greys don't like * going into* something to bathe. A normal type of area to put it in, most likely on the bottom of the cage, allows a grey or other medium to large sized parrot the ability to spread it's wings so the under side of the body gets wet. Most items used are fllat. Basically, they threash around, make a mess and afterward the bowl or other item is removed and it's cleanup time. That area is usually the floor of the cage. No matter where you set up water, there's a good chance that the water will probably get dirty without being used because most greys aren't very fond of bathing. The subject of bathing and what methods that can be used constantly comes up because people get frustrated. There's sickys in the Health room concerning bathing.

Thanks very much for the nice words. It's appreciated by all. One thing though, you forgot a guy named Jay who moderates the Amazon Board so if you see him, say hello.

Bonding can't be done when using a towel. As Dan said, a towel is used to do a specific thing such as putting a bird in a carrier to go some place such as a vet, doing nails, beaks. The time that the bird remains wrapped in a towel is very short and as Dan also said, it doesn't have to be thick. For trimming, the reason to use a towel is to expose the head and putting your fingers around the beak so he can't bite. Training, bonding will never happen by using anything that's wrapped around a bird, towel, cloth etc. Training, bonding have absolutely nothing to do with toweling. And yes, most people towel a bird when it's out of a cage. Using a towel in the cage is inperpeted by the bird as being attacked or captured. Basically, a towel is a restraint and should be taken off a bird as quickly as possible.The act of toweling will just make a bird more angry. ***There is a lot of contradicting, some confusing, and a lot of incomplete information about how to best go about this process.**** If this information that you saw was saying that training and bonding were somehow connected with using a towel, then the information was wrong.

Did someone actually tell you that diseases could be spread from dander? Dander is a protective powder that certain birds produce which protects and waterproofs their outer feathers. That's why it's difficult to soak down a bird to the skin which needs bathing more so than the outer feathers. It also causes dry skin if the bird isn't bathed periodically. It can cause areas in a bird room or other rooms to be constantly dusty. The 05 Avian Flu wasn't spread by feathers. The actual cause was extremely tainted and dirty food, unsanitary conditions and the spread of it was caused by different types of poultry stepping into the tainted food, eating it in the different poultry centers which contained thousands of different poultry animals. The Flu happened because those birds ate the food--then the poultry was shipped to many other countries, hence the spread of avian flu. There was one parrot that died. It lived indoors a large poutry center and wound up eating the tainted food and died. The different types of infected poultry didn't all die. They were destroyed because people ate the diseased poultry and got very sick or died. The disease didn't show itself until hundreds of people died or were seriously sick. Diseases don't spread because of dander. Dander is a protectant. The only ones that suffer from the dander are people who have serious allergic reactions to the dander ( COPD---Asthma--Chonic Bronctis) which is why people may need to sell/adopt out their birds. The same people can have the same reactions from dander which is present where cats live in the home. So, I doubt that mom is sending you anything that will hurt your bird even though she has ducks unless she has the AFLAC!!!!! duck. Then your insurance rates will go up.

Many greys don't like baths. Some will splash around in bowls and other won't. Some people use glass bake dishes. Some greys like it and others don't.Most greys like cooler water. If the water seems cool to you it's fine for your bird. Many like showers and others don't. If your room temperature is between 64 to 70 degrees, then it's fine for your bird. Drafts will do more harm to a bird so the drying area should be draft free. As far as what the birds do or don't do, well, it's an individual thing and eventually you'll see what he likes in general.