Ziva is making me nuts! (long)

[ZivaDiva]

Her behavior has changed so much in the last week and I'm losing my mind. She seems to be coming out of her shell as she's getting used to being in our home and to us.

 

She's gone into attack mode and tries to bite me when I am near her. The problem is that she's out when I'm home and her cage is right next to my bed. (She is caged at night) I will be moving her to the dining room and making that the "bird room" this weekend.

 

I was home sick yesterday and in bed and she screamed the entire time. She doesn't care if I'm right there or not. She's happy and loves to scream. She does scream at my lovebird in the same room. She also screams to my cockatiels in the living room and to the wild bird outside. My entire apt. was screamland yesterday and it appears to be that way now during the day.

 

This is obviously not a new problem with her because while she was screaming, she was also yelling at herself in her former humans voice. "Shut up. You're being too loud. Talk pretty. Knock it off. You are so annoying. I'm going to cover you" and on and on.

 

I ignore the screaming and leave the room and give her lots of attention when she's talking nicely. When she's quiet or talking softly and I start to praise her and give her attention, she screams. I'm not sure how to handle that as then I'm just in and out of the room. I don't let her see that I'm upset and I don't say anything when she's screaming. I ignore it but at times I think about how I'd like to take a baseball to the side of her cage!

 

She flew off her cage yesterday and onto my back while I was in bed. The good thing was that once she was on my bed, it was unfamiliar territory and she scurried back to her cage. She's also flying off and going after my cat who is the nicest creature around. She keeps telling me, "Shut the door and keep the cat out!"

 

Ack, I am so frustrated between the screaming and attacking I am happy to be at work where I can find some peace and quiet.

 

One other thing - she is also immitating the sound of a siren. You know how the fire dept. and police change up the siren at an intersection. It has a distinct whoo whoo sound. (Not sure how to spell that) Well, I live directly across the street from an ER and it happens all day and night. She joins in each and every time (except when in bed) and now my other birds scream as if they are being killed while she does the siren sound.

 

I want to run away!!! Thanks for letting me vent.

[Lyric]

Oh wow, you've had quite a time of it! You are doing the right thing by ignoring her when she is screaming- it's really the only answer and you just have to be consistant and hang in there. Does she have toys to keep her busy while she is inside her cage? I think she is pretty new to you and still settling in. Give it some time and see if things don't calm down in a few weeks time. Until then, I suggest ear plugs! (if she hears sirens a lot, she is probably going to continue making this noise no matter what, unless she just gets bored with it and getting no reaction out of you) Good luck-- if you need to, go to a different room and take a few deep breaths and focus your thoughts before you interact with her again.

[ZivaDiva]

Thanks for the reply and support. I do believe the siren is here to stay. Hopefully having the birds in one room will knock down some noise since they won't need to scream at each other from 3 rooms away.

 

I had to leave yesterday and go to my mom's so I could take a nap since I was sick. I'm hoping ignoring the bad and praising the good will knock down some of the screaming. I hope my neighbors can wait that long. Our walls are really thin. I came home last weekend and found some items on the floor that didn't start there. That means they were slamming doors downstairs - probably in response to her screaming. She does that space ship raygun thingy over and over again.

 

She does have toys and is not really into them. She is starting to play with them a little. I'm thinking about trying more foraging toys but replies to my post before about her not playing with toys told me that older greys don't really like toys. I did buy her a bell but she's still afraid of it and it's not even on her cage yet.

[Eckobird]

Oh you poor thing! I am sorry to hear Ziva has gone mad. You are doing the right thing by ignoring it and walking away. There is nothing else you really could do. Lyric is right, earplugs will probally help a little. Good luck!

[cflanny]

I am having some of the same type of issues I just got done reading this story about distraction, this artical was written by Jane Hallander/avian behaviorlist. When her grey used to scream she would find a tactic to ditract, hers didnt like to waddle on the floor so when he would scream she would set him on the floor and run down the hall. her grey hated it so much that he quickly learned that screaming meant being put on the floor. Now I know this is not somthing all of us can do but I am trying to think of what I can do to inplement this type of thinking.

 

ZZero has gone thru series of awful noises that he would do constantly but then usually move on quickly from not getting attention for them but we have this "BEEP" that he will do constantly that is driving me outta my mind. so I gonna think of somthing for him to associate it with (cage does not work for us) and let you know how it goes.

 

Now we have a biting issue, most of the time ZZero is really sweet but if hes into somthing hes knows hes not supposed to be inot he snips when when I ask for a step up and seems to get really angry with me, I have to walk away I am wondering am I am doing the right thing or should I chase him all over and take the bites till I get my way ??

 

Sorry to put my problems in your post but the issues are alot alike

[Dusty1709]

 

Hi there, this post is so relevant to me at the moment.

Dusty who is only eight months old is going through a screaming noisy spell at the moment. Some noises are tolerable but some are not. I understand she is finding her feet but i do have to ignore...:sick:

 

I also have the added benefit:pinch: of a five year old hormonal female orange winged amazon who is also currently going through a moult. Gizmo doesnt speak but makes noises needless to say baby Dusty has picked some of these up and oh boy there is noise.

 

I stay in a flat/apartment but my neighbours have not complained and ive asked the one underneath me, she can hear the birds when her window is open.

 

Both birds live in the same room and one cant go somewhere without the other. The amazon has bonded with me and they both crave my attention. Its never ending....

 

Please be patient I like you sometimes feel as if i'm climbing up the wall........... :blink:

 

Butter wouldnt melt ............

 

 

<br><br>Post edited by: Dusty1709, at: 2009/05/05 23:12

[MrsB]

Dang girl, I feel for you! We had a UToo before, he would scream right infront of you so loud, I though my ear drums would burst. It is so terrible, I remember feeling like you, I didn't even want to be at home. hang in their, and lean on us here.

 

So, go here: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1795&aid=1517 this is a good page.

 

When Mesa gets too vocal, I tell her to shh, quitely, and say, "Mesa, be quite" if she keeps up, I go to her, say nothing and take her from her play tree and put her in her cage. Then I say it again "Shh, quite". And I don't go back for her until she quites. I wait five minutes and then go stand by the doorway where she cannot see me. As soon as she is quiet, even for a few seconds I go to her and praise her for being "quiet" and really heap it on, and then take her out and put her back to her tree. Surprisingly, she is catching on faster than I thought she would. It's not 100% though, we'll just keep working it! :blink:

 

We recently got my little man, A 5 year old Ekkie. He is pretty quite, but he will make an obnoxious noise, and then he'll say "Kramer! Stop it!" or "Kramer" in a rude, disgusted, tired voice. He'll make the noise again, and then tell himself off again, "STOP IT" or "shut up", or "Do it again..." like a warning. He must have heard it a lot. (I changed his name to Verde, so Kramer is his old name.)

 

I cannot for the life of me find where I read it, but this one lady said that she kept a small cage, like a sleeper cage, no toys and small in another room. She would "warn" her guy to quite and whisper to him. If he kept up she would quietly take him and put him by himself in this cage for 15 minutes. Then she would take him out and reward/praise him and put him back out in his regular area. She said it took a few months and it was tiring, but it eventually worked. Now she has to only mention quiet and he is. When we're talking 50-60-70 years of potential quiet, it's worth it.

 

And look at my post Foraging Foot Food in the Food Section, they are easy and they take the birds a lot of time to work at. Maybe that would distract her. Even if you only put one or two things inside of them so she could eat them/forage all day without getting too much nuts/seed etc. My birds and friend's birds cannot resist.

 

Again, sorry you are going through it. We are all here for you to listen, sorry we can't come birdsit to get you a night out-LOL. :silly:

[Tycos_mom]

Thats agreat Idea most Greys don't like being on the floor so I would say something like that would work for alot of behavor problems of even putting the bird in the batroom with everything closed would be also goo or a travel cage with a blanket over it any kind of thing that the bird doesn't like would work I would imagine putting him in his own cage won't work because thats his home and shouldn't be used as punishment

[ZivaDiva]

Thanks everyone. Ziva has no problem with the floor. She flies down and walks around and then goes back up on her cage so that won't work but I will see if I can think of something else as a distraction.

 

RE: the time out method - I thought I read somewhere that punishment is not a good thing. I know there are different views on everything but am at the point of covering her cage up for a few minutes of quiet. I haven't done it but I've thought about it.

 

She isn't stick or finger trained and it's a pain in the behind. I'm trying but all she does is jump over and take off so even moving her to someplace else is chore. I have purchased 2 play gyms for her so she can be with me around the house but I can't get her on them unless I towel her. I've only done it once and she didn't seem to really mind but it seems like a mean way to relocate her.

 

She wasn't a biter before and now she's not only trying to bite but lunges and flies off her cage at me or the cat. She's clipped so she can't go far. She's always been clipped and came that way so that's not new to her.

 

My daughter went home sick from school today and she's trying to sleep but that's not happening with Ziva in the house. Poor kid.

[Raposa]

Wow, you have quite a situation on your hands. I can well imagine how difficult it must be to maintain your calm when Ziva is about to drive you crazy. Sometimes it feels like we do everything we can think of to accomodate the feathered members of our family, and ONCE in a while it would be nice if they would accomodate us - like be quiet when somebody is sick, for instance, or not lunge and bite! Have you looked into doing any clicker training with Ziva? There's a site out there . . . birdclick.com, I think . . . that gives a lot of good training advice (not that I have followed up on it myself, of course, but I've READ it all, does that count???)

 

I hope Ziva settles down soon and you and your daughter and your neighbors all get to have soothed eardrums and nerves . . .

[Char]

My vet reccomends that you do not use the bird's regular cage for timeout. Rather, use a small cage in another room or a pet carrier.

[Luvparrots]

Joann have you tried when Ziva starts screaming just talking to her quietly. Very quietly telling her no and very quietly just talking to her about your day or telling her quietly how irritating her behavior is. Ana Grey isn't a screamer but when I talk to her very quietly she turns her head and listens very intently to hear what I am saying. Perhaps Ziva's curiousity will get the better of her and Ziva will quiet down. If she should quiet down I would then tell her what a great girl she is and give her a treat, letting her quietly know what a good quiet girl she is. I wish you the best of luck with Ziva and I hope the right solution for quieting Ziva down comes soon.

[ZivaDiva]

Thanks againg to everyone. I'm trying to convince myself it's time to go home. I'd rather stay at work.

 

I have spoken softly to her and was trying it again yesterday and she just yelled back at me. It made me nuts but I was happy that she doesn't appear to be doing it because she's freaked out or scared. She was happy as hell and dancing. She was having fun while So Cal was going deaf.

 

Quick cute story - in the morning she woke up and was still covered. She started softly saying, "Good morning. Helllooooo. What 'cha doing? Are you sleeping? Are you beddie bye? Helllloooo." I didn't answer her as I don't get her up until 8am and it was 7am. She repeated the same things for a few minutes and when I didn't reply, she started yelling, "You son of a b!tch" over and over again. It was hard not to laugh out loud.

[Jane08]

I really feel for you and know what you are going through I thought our female grey was going to drive me to a mental home. I then sat down and realsied I was the problem and not her. Once I changed how I approached her and interacted with her it stopped.

 

It seems though that Ziva had been doing this for quite some time and has got attention for doing it, especially if she knows the words like shut up etc. So this has been reinforced with her before you got her and she thinks it's normal. You can't be upset for her screaming when this is what she has been taught, it's not her fault. When she screams have some compassion for her, look at her as though you love her and you will find that you will feel calmer and better able to deal with her. Maybe repeat to yourself that it is not her fault to remind yourself of this and be determined that you will teach her the right way to behave.

 

You are doing everyting right, when she screams ignore her, when she makes a good sound reward her. By reward I mean give her a treat, or get excited and raise the pitch of your voice and exaggerate a verbal praise just like you would do if a child did somehting amazing and you were so proud. If you are praising her and she screams stop and turn away from her and ignore her.

 

You are also doing the right thing by leaving the room while she screams. She will be picking up on the tension that you feel when she screams which she will enjoy big time. You say you don't let her see that you are upset but believe me she will feel your emotions.

 

Try to talk to her more like luvparrots suggested in a calm voice ask her things that you know she knows the answer to, or tell her what you are doing, explain everything to her. She does want to be a part of your family but she doesn't know how and the last family taught her that screaming was the way, so she has just continued that.

 

 

 

Find toys that she finds interesting, especially foraging toys, show her how to play with them, get excited when you show her like it is the best thing ever. Do some training with her to stimulate her mind, this is very important they need stimulation. You could start to teach her to step up using treats.

 

Last but not least just remind yourself that problems that our greys have are nearly always our creation, or the owner before you as in your case. Try to remember it is not their fault.

 

Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2009/05/06 10:05<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2009/05/06 10:08

[Guest]

ZivaDiva, I am not a Grey owner and thus lack the personal experience but... (yes, that ever returning "but" ) I would -when she screams- approach her calmly and talk to her in a soothing voice - tell her softly and with inclination in my voice that resembles addressing a small child, that it isn't nice to scream, that she's sweet and lovely and very dear to you and things like that: but all in a very soft and calm voice. Maybe it's something to try out? It won't help immediately I am sure but repeating this will have result, I am sure

[casper]

I really feel for you and know what you are going through!

 

I have three greys which are in the same room and when they start, boy do I need earplugs!

 

Everyone has offered great advice, I really hope things work out for you, come on here anytime and vent your feelings, it sometimes helps just to get things of your chest.

 

Hope you are feeing better:)

[annmarie]

ZivaDiva

 

I also feel for you. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter. We do not have our grey home yet, so I can't offer advice from experience. To be honest, I never knew they screamed...my brother has a 12 y/o and some of our friends have greys as well and I haven't heard they scream. Here is a link to "Good Bird". If you go to books and video, you will see a book listed for 15.00 called A Guide to Solving Behavior Problems In Companion Parrots. This book really might be of help as it has the answers for what you are dealing with. There is also a link for a free news letter.

go to www.goodbirdinc.com Hope this may help.

 

Ann Marie

[doubletefarm]

Annmarie- Oh they do scream. They have a play scream so I've found out. (when attacking their toys they emit the strangest sounds)

[annmarie]

doubletefarm... just when I thought I had the greys pretty much down pat..lol! It really is funny being around my brothers, he is just so quiet..he talks, and talks but I have never heard him scream... I guess I need to buy ear plugs

[ZivaDiva]

I thought they didn't scream much and it's not the normal parrot squawk but damn, she's noisy. She does the spaceship ray gun and the PING! sound which vibrates my ear canals. And there's some other screeching sound I haven't figured out yet. They can all be deafening.

 

Annmarie, thanks for the link re: the books and dvd's. Friday is payday and I'll be ordering.

 

I'm not sure if I should try speaking softly to Ziva when she's screaming as I'm afraid that will only reinforce it. I'm just not sure. She does want to be around me all the time even if she wants to kill me. I do make sure to let her know where I am in the house and call to her. When I get her stick trained, I think things will be better as I can move her around the house with me and I could also put her in a time out cage if I go that route.

 

Yesterday she started something new. She starts to "talk pretty" as she says and then throws in the ping or raygun sound. "Good morning -PING!" Instead of saying "I'll be right back", she now says, "I'll be right PING!" Or she'll throw the ray gun sound in at the end or the middle of what she's saying. I'm finding it difficult to figure out when to praise her for not screaming. If she starts to speak quietly and I start talking to her and making a fuss, she right away goes into a PING! or ray gun. I'm getting dizzy turning and walking out of the room. The funny thing is that each time I turn to leave the room, she says, "I'll be right PING!" I normally tell her I'll be right back when I leave the room but now she's telling me AND making noise.

 

I think I hate that a parrot is smarter than I am.

[cflanny]

Did you change the cage location??

[annmarie]

ZivaDiva

 

Do you think you can keep her in the family area where she can see you most of the time and be part of what is going on? I do feel for you and I can imagine how tiring it must be. A parrot that has behavior problems is not easy to live with I'm sure. I hope the book with give you some insight to all this and be a help to you. Please keep me posted..hope you get some rest!

Ann Marie

[ZivaDiva]

Ziva update - She's still in my bedroom, which is where I spend most of my time. I was planning on moving her this weekend but it's hot and I have a/c in the bedroom. I want to make the dining room the bird room and then move them into the bedroom when they need a/c but since she's not stick trained yet, it makes things difficult.

 

She has quieted down considerably and I don't know why. One thing I have done is to keep the blinds closed. I feel kind of mean as she loves looking outside and yelling at everyone and everything out there. I open them when I am home and she looks out then but is also happy to just hang out with me. She is still noisier than she was originally but not has bad as earlier this week.

 

I'm still ignoring the bad and praising the good. I wish she had a special treat she liked so I could distract her with that, but she just doesn't. Her new fav thing is to hang upside down like a bat from the top of her cage because it makes me laugh. She looks like she's standing upside down. Then she lifts herself through her legs as if she's doing a somersault. So, we are playing and having a good time.

 

She's screaming more at sunset than before but only for a few minutes and that's natural and fine with me. It's the screaming for hours on end that makes me nuts.

 

She seems to have calmed down and now my lovebird has taken over in the screaming dept. but he's not as loud.

 

Please keep your fingers crossed.

[she]

This is an old trick of mine when I need quiet time,I give Charlie a phone book or an old paper back book to chew up,it keeps him busy for ages.He is not a screamer but like all parrots he has his moments. I also find that if I am quiet and calm so is he. I also find that playing a game that uses some of his energey up,he likes swinging from a perch I hold in my hand and doing sumersalts on it,that also helps.Ziva may well quiet down a bit in your family room where she can interact with you and the other birds rather than hearing them and calling back.Carry on ignoring bad behaviour completely and go over the top praising good habbits.They are all different and you will find out what works for you.My advise at the moment is keep her busy with the phone books and move her to your family room.

[harmonicaman68]

I was reading your posts and feeling for you and your situation. Has your Ziva's behavior changed over the months? As I was reading your posts, the overall impression I got was that your Ziva was going through a communications crisis. Her previous owner had probably said certain things in response to the words that Ziva vocalizes. You don't know those responses and when you can't give them back ... it's like you are speaking different languages (even though you know the words). Similar to someone who is from England asking for a spanner and someone from the U.S. not responding because we would not recognize "spanner" as asking for a wrench even though we knew many common words. Poor Ziva has to build a new language that will get her positive responses. As you give positive responses to acceptable words and sounds, Ziva will learn which sounds are getting a response and will speak them more. (by the way, in absence of positive responses, any response will do ... as with the zapper sound). At the time of your post, Ziva was just trying to get responses, positive or negative. She really prefers positive if available. Similar to what you are doing in her play time. She hangs off the cage because she sees it is pleasing to you. She obviously (from your posts) wants to know you and connect. I'm hoping in the months you have had together that more positive connections were developed and the negative were left behind as Ziva learned from you ignoring unacceptable behavior (or putting her in "time-out"), not to do it. The advice that was given has been a boost to me too. We're all trying to find out what works.