he's/she's got E. Coli >:(

[GorgASS]

so i just got a call from the vet...all my little guys lab work came back, and he's totally ok except for the ract that he's got e. coli!! he's on 2 diff. medications for it, and the vet was very confident it will clear it up but i'm just pissed he even has it in the first place! so now i have to try and get some money back from the breeder (10 day health gaurentee) which i'm sure isn't going to be easy...wish me luck...i just needed somewhere to vent...thanks!

[Luvparrots]

I'm sorry GorgASS for your little grey's health problem but I have great confidence that you will do whatever is needed to see that your baby comes out of this ordeal healthy as can be. Good luck with the breeder and best of luck on a full recovery for your sweet baby grey!!!

[Azzie]

Now I know E. coli is a bacteria that usually lives in the gut of humans. How on earth does a parrot end up with this nasty bug?

[lovethatgrey]

What a real bummer:( Lot's of luck with the breeder but if they are reasonable they will foot the vet bill as well as the medication bill. I wonder if he got it while mucking around in his feces somehow. Baby parrots tend to do that alot especially if they are grouped with other babies and cross contamination occurs too during feedings. It's a wonder that it wasn't detected earlier. E-coli bacteria is really not fun to have and can even be fatal.

 

Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/04/04 02:25<br><br>Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/04/04 02:42

[CarolandFamily]

I would be totally PISSED TOO! {Emotions-00020076} did you call them???? Girl get on that phone and see what they are going to be doing as far as him being sick!

[lovethatgrey]

If he has it.. the other babies in his clutch may have it too. The breeder needs to be informed for sure to notify the other parronts.

[GorgASS]

i emailed the breeder saying my baby has e. coli and saying she might want to get her birds checked or at least be aware and watch for signs. i didn't say anything about her paying for anything because after looking at her website (which had both a 3 day and a 10 day health gaurentee in diff. spots) and looking at the paper work she gave me when i bought him it was unclear who would be responsible for the bills, so i thought i'd just tell her what was going on and see what she said. she wrote me this...

 

He came from my hand feeders house the night before I got him to show you him, and the grey baby was the last baby he had in the brooder and of course the only baby in my brooder as you saw.

 

so I just have to clean out the brooder before the next babies come.

 

THANK YOU

 

and another one before i even noticed the first one...

 

my vet says I would have noticed diareah from her if she had e coli, as I have never had e coli here. and it takes 7 days to show from first comeing in contact... and its been that... and I havent heard any thing from you about the baby having bloody stool from e coli.....

 

 

hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

so i replied...

 

he doesn't have bloody stool or diarrhea. his stool is normal looking, but it does have a foul odor, which it's had ever since i got him. in fact when the vet called me today to give me the results of wednesday's cultures she said she was very surprised at the results because he looked so heathly. i wasn't emailing you trying to get you to pay for the vet bills or for the meds he's on. my intentions were simply to make you aware of the fact that he has e. coli so if any of your birds (or apparently any of the person who was doing the hand feeding birds if they have any) were to get sick, you would know that they could have been exposed to e. coli. you said in your email that e. coli doesn't show up until 7 days after being exposed. i took the bird to the vet on wednesday, and that's when the cultures were done. on wednesday i had the bird 4 days, so the bird had to have come in contact with e. coli sometime before wednesday march 25, if the 7 day thing is in fact true, which would mean he had it when i got him from you. at this point i'm NOT trying to get you to pay for anything, i just wanted to let you know what was going on. i'm insulted by the hmmmmmmm at the end of your email. nothing in my previous email to you insinuated that i wanted you to pay for anything, and i didn't say anything that warrented that as a response. like i said, i was only emailing you so knew and could watch for signs in your birds, should they have any.

 

i'm sorry this is so long, i'm sure you didn't need to read the email's, i'm just very insulted. no where did i say or even hint at the fact that i was expecting her to pay for anything! and yet i get that as a response. honestly i almost wonder if she knew he had something and wanted to get rid of him before she had to spend $ to get him healthy. the only reason i say this is because the very first time i talked to her she asked if i would be willing to learn how to hand feed him so i could bring him home early. i said i'd have to think about it because i didn't know how hard it was and she assured me there was nothing to it and it was very easy. it was only AFTER i picked him up that i read all the hand-feeding stuff on this forum and got really worried. (i'm doing fine at it...but what if i wasn't!) and now after the email she sent with the hmmm at the end, expecially when all i did was tell her what was wrong so none of her birds died! i could understand her being a little defensive(maybe) if i was trying to get her to pay for everything and she didn't think she should, but i never even hinted that's what i wanted!! either way, i'm glad i got my baby, sick or not, and i'm glad this was caught before anything happened to him, who ever has to pay(which will be me i'm sure) i'm ok with that. not happy but ok with it. why is it when a person is just trying to be NICE and prevent others from getting sick right away he must have gotten it from something I did. the vet even said she was sure i did nothing, and she'd write a letter saying that if i wanted/needed her to. grrr!! i'm so upset right now. thanks for letting me vent...again

[GorgASS]

and i forgot to add...

 

exactly my point lovethatgrey. what if the other babies have it? there were 3 in the clutch mine came from (that i'm aware of). what if whoever bought those other 2 took them to a general vet (like i did at first) and said they were fine? they'd end up dying!! the only reason i ended up going to another vet was because i didn't like the first one, and i actually almost didn't get a swab taken from the butt because that was one of the things the first vet actually did (he looked at a stool for parasites) so i thought it was fine. thank god for some reason i told her to do it otherwise this may have never been detected until it was too late!

 

notice to all those thinking about getting or who have just got a baby grey: get ALL lab tests done (even though it's definately not cheap!) you'd hate yourself if they missed something just because you didn't want to spend the extra money. that's what made me do that one extra test i think. i thought this bird is basically going to be my permanent kid, and i know if one of my human kids got sick i would pay anything to make sure they got healthy again, no matter what the cost. *sigh* sorry i keep going on and on

[SunnyBird]

I'm sorry to hear about this but I'm so glad you caught it in time. What is the course of therapy? I'm not surprised that your breeder doesn't want to get involved. My breeder did not even have the courtesy to answer my email when I wrote to him and told him that my little Alex died suddenly... Anyhow, I would appreciate if you can give me the list of tests you did so that I can ask for them specifically when I get my next bird. Perhaps I could have saved Alex...

[Azzie]

Sorry to hear your wee fella isn't well. I wish him a speedy recovery.

 

A list of tests would be very useful, as suggested by Happy in the above post.

 

As for breeders not caring, I guess there are some very unscrupulous people out there who don't give a damn once they've got the money you paid for the bird.

[Tycos_mom]

I'm so very happy you decided to take your baby to a avian vet. karma to you . yjat little guy does't know how lucky he is to have such a wonderful mom. I guess there are allot of breeders out there that just don't give a dam about anything except how much money they can make. I would be furious also if something was wrong and my baby was sick

[GorgASS]

the list of tests they did were:

avian complete blood count

avian chemistry

avian blood sexing (optional of course)

culture and sensitivity test

 

the culture and sensitivity test was the most expensive test they did but that's the one that caught the e. coli. i'm so sorry to hear about you losing your baby happy in greece, i'm glad my story isn't going to end like that now. thank you for all your responses, as of this morning i haven't heard anything back from my breeder...not that i'm surprised. my little guy seems to be doing better. (i think) his poop was smelling pretty bad which is another reason i opted to do the culture. it was so bad even if he was in his cage and i was 10 ft. away, if he pooped i could smell it. anyway, he pooped a huge one this morning and no smell! i don't know if one dose of meds could of started to help already or what but i hope this continues! i also took the blankets out of the bottom of his cage, so he'd be farther away from his poop, so there'd be no chance of re-infection. even tho he's only 11 weeks old now, he's been climbing up and down the sides of his cage really good and i am home all day, so i don't think the blankets in case he falls are necessary at this point, or at least until he goes back to the vet to make sure his e. coli is gone.

 

i do have a question tho: how do you wean a baby? my breeder never really said specifically how to, just to email her with what was going on and she'd tell me what to do. now that all of this has happened i doubt i'll hear from her. he is eating really good on his own (only pellets and apples tho, he won't try anything else) and i'm wondering how to get him from 3 feedings a day down to 2, so any advice would be welcome! thanks so much!

[lovethatgrey]

I think you should scan or fax her all copies of what the vet gave you, then sit back and see what she does with it.

 

In terms of the feedings... it is usually the baby who decides on the feedings. If you wish to wean him on 2 feedings I would purchase an avian scale to monitor his weight. You must weigh him DAILY to make sure he is eating properly on his own. Always have his pellets, seeds, nuts and fresh foods available in his cage for him to sample too.

 

Be prepared that there may be a slight drop in weight for the first 2 days (that is normal) but if he is eating properly on his own it should start to stabilize. Be very careful to not let his weight drop more than 10% if so .. then go back to the 3 feedings. He is not emotionally, psychologically and physically ready for two feedings only. I'm sure others with more experience will chime in to give you more advice.<br><br>Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/04/04 15:39

[Tycos_mom]

hi Gorg you have to keep giving him fresh fruits and veggies because even if he doesn't eat them now he may try them and decide he likes it. I gave my bsby some scrambled eggs yesterday and he loved them he also likes Strawberry's cut uo small, Chopped broccoli,grated carrots, and apples he also likes walnut chopped and he seems to really enjoy his seed mix I've only been giving him a little seed mix because I want him to eat pellets but he seems to have gone off his pellets he used to eat them good before I started giving him other foods now he hardly toches them. My baby is on 3 feeds a day also and is not wanting to go down to 2 yet he is not taking as much formula as he was I noticed but he is still on three a day. I find he has kinda cut himself from 50cc to around 35-40CC per feeding and then he refuses to eat anymore. so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing I'm sure eventually he will stop taking his formula completly. I weigh him on a digital kitchen scale that weighs in gr or pounds and I weigh him before breakfast after his morning poop. good luck I wouldn't worry about how to wean he will wean himself eventually its you job to supply the food so that its readily available and he will eventually cut himself down Its not a good Idea to force wean your baby they have troubls later on. Some birds take an extra long time don't worry.

[Eckobird]

Oh no I am so sorry to hear about this! But I'm glad you caught it in time. I had those same tests done by my avian vet and am still waiting for the results of the culture and sensitivity test. That is too bad about your breeder, I can't believe how rude they are! I would be furious and make them pay for the vet bills! I really hope your baby gets better soon and that the meds help him.

 

So your baby is still on 3 feedings? Have you noticed him starting to refuse it at all? My baby is 9 weeks old and I just got him down to 2 feedings a day. I feed him in the mornings and at night now. When I was feeding him at lunch he started to refuse it, so he was only getting about 15-20cc instead of the normal 40cc so I just stopped giving it to him on the 3rd day of him refusing lunch. I give him a bowl of zupreem pellets mixed with dried fruits and some seeds. I also made a birdie mix with brown rice, beans, veggies, fruits, etc. and I give him a bowl of that too and he loves it. Just offer your baby a variety of colorful foods and he should start to get interested in it. Anyways, I hope this helps, Good luck with your baby

[Tycos_mom]

Good Idea I used to make the 12 bean and rice mash all the time for my birds but they went off it I think I'll make some this afternoon for them mabie they will like it again its been a couple months since I made some I have everything I need for it so I'm off to the kitchen to make mash for the baby's. Icannot believe how much Shady loves broccoli I fill his little plate full of chopped broccoli and 5 minutes later its all gone. I kope he likes bean mash. When I had love birds they almost lived on it they couldn't get enough of it. Thanks again for the reminder. Don't forget Gorgass anything that you eat thats healthy your baby can eat also except avacados, raw onions and things with sugar cafine choclate even a little cheese isn't bad for them because it so high in calcium the good kinda over rule the bad.So give him a variaty make him some squash and a nice salad with tons of different fruits and veggie once he trys it he will be off the formula in no time if he won't try something you eat it in front of him his curiosity will get the better of him and he will try it and might even like it. I did that with the scrambled eggs yesterday and Shady loved them.<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2009/04/04 22:11

[SunnyBird]

Tycos_mom, can I have your recipe for bean and rice mash or is it already posted somewhere else? Also, the brocoli is given raw, right? Do you cook the vegis? I tried to feed Alex a mostly raw food diet, since in nature there wouldn't be any cooked food.... Do you find that the take the food easier if it's cut into little bits? (Sorry I went off topic...)

[cf737]

GorgASS I'm so sorry to hear about your baby troubles and the breeder giving you a hard time. Personally, I can't imagine a breeder acting that way! That's terrible and you deserve a more caring breeder.

In regards to the tests I just got my results from the vet yesterday and she did a few tests as well...the ones you mentioned and also a test for the top 4 common diseases. It is expensive but very worth it.

 

About the veggies...try giving the babies some chopped up squash cooked or microwaved until it loses some colour and is kind of mushy...Darwin loooves it and so does a baby B&G macaw at the breeders I got my baby from. They also seem to love chopped up sweet potato.

I have been giving Darwin, who is 16 weeks old now, a huge variety of mostly veggies + some fruit every day, usually raw. She gets some cooked veggies in the morning with some rice or whole wheat bread. When she was 2 months old she started on mango, bananas, and softer veggies such as kale or green pepper. She also loved raw broccoli when she was that age. They might throw it around, but that's showing interest and

they'll try it as they play.

 

HappyinGreece....it depends on the bird as far as size goes, I think. For now I'm giving Darwin a little of everything in all different sizes and am trying to figure out which she eats more of.

[Tycos_mom]

Hi Gorgass The recipe is to long to post but if you GOGGLE rice and bean mash for parrots you will get lots of recipes for different ones. I give Shady Chopped raw broccoli he loves it and it is great for him. High in lots of vitamins that parrots need. Potatos have to be cooked so does squash, turnip, but allot of thins can be fed raw. at your babys age he would probubly like something warn and mushy its comfort food for parrots thats why its always good to give them both cooked and raw vegetables Dark green leafy veggie are really good for him raw. just feed him things that you would feed your Children from pasta to veggies a little chicken of lean beef cooked of course is also good once in a while My Tyco loves chicken when she smells it cooking she goes on and on saying Chicken yum yum want some chicken yummy for my tummy. Its very cute Tyco is my 6 year old african Grey in case you didn't know. She also really like Speggetti with meatsauce and parmasan cheese. shes only allowed a little bit of sauce for flavor but she just gobbles it down. Like I said anything that you eat thats healthy is also good for your bird.<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2009/04/05 14:38

[Azzie]

Very entertaining to read all these posts about parrot likes and dislikes!

 

I'm glad to hear your baby seems to be perking up Gorg. Antibiotics start to take effect after about 24 hours of regular dosing, where it will stop bacteria from multiplying, but the full effect doesn't kick in for about 48 hours when it actively starts to kill bugs.

 

Antibiotics are great drugs, but remember they kill good AND bad bugs, which increases the risk of thrush. Yoghurt with liver cultures can help prevent that.

 

And as I am sure you know, to finish the course of medication completely, because bacteria quickly become resistant to antibiotics if they aren't wiped out completely. Which means that if baby remains infected, it's gonna be much harder to get him/her better next time round.

[GorgASS]

azzie- that's why he's on the second med. the vet said the first one is to kill the e. coli but sometimes antibiotics kill the good bacteria as well as the bad, so that's why he's on the second. i can't remember exactly what she said on how it worked tho.

 

i went to copps this morning. they have a salad bar with vegetables and fruit for like $5 a pound. i figured since my guy's not really eating anything it'd probably be cheaper to but stuff that way to till i figure out what foods he likes. so i got a bunch of diff. fruits and veges. i chopped up some spinach, celery, carrots, califlour, brocolli, red yellow and green peppers, and put them all in his dish, wondering if today would go untouched as it has everyday i've offered anything but apples...HE ATE SOME!! he was really going at the brocolli until he dropped it and it went under the grate lol. i'm not too sure if he ate a little of everything or just picked out certain things but i'm so excited he tried it! i figure i'll do the same tomorrow and try fruit the next couple of days and see how that goes. he's also making diff. noises than he was before. he was only doing the same hungry squack all day before, and now he's been quiet(he NEVER was before unless he was asleep), he's been making kind of a squeaky noise (hard to explain), a higher pitched noise, and i think he was growling at his toys. not a growl growl like the youtube video someone posted...i think he was playing with his toy and ?growling? at it. anyone else know what i'm talking about? also, can they have radishes? and i've heard they can't have onions, does anyone know why?

 

and i was so upset the other day about the vet results i forgot to tell you all he took his first flight!! (he's done it 2 more times since then) he's hopped around flapping his wings but this time he was on his playtop that was on the floor and he decided to get down and before i could get to him he flew to me...like 5 feet! i was so excited!

[Tycos_mom]

Thy can have onions small amount cooked I heard that raw onions aren't good for the because they have some sort of drug affect on them like lsd for us. I just read this in a bird book so I really not sure what that means or even if its true. a little cooked onion in a sauce is ok. Thats great your baby flew. Mine flapps his/her wings like crazy but hasn't tried to fly yet he has been climbing all overr his cage though so I think I'm going to switch him to the bigger one over the next couple days I just have to rearrage a few thing so I can fit it close to me. I'm so glad your babyis getting better those are the cute little noises they are supposed to make Mine growls at his toys also I think its so cute. I'm glad that he has found stuff that he likes to eat just keep on what your doing and you will have him down to 2 feedings a day in no time. My baby is doing something really strange most baby's cut the middle meal first mine is cutting its first meal. I work until 11:00pm so my baby doesn't get fed its last feeding until around midnight. then I fed him again around 8am but for the last 2 days he doesnt take hardly any formila at that time so I've been giveing him his veggie fruit fresh pellets and water at that time. then around 12:30 pm he wants to eat his formula and will take a full 40 cc at that time which is 3 hours before I usually feed him his second meal I'm going to feed him at 12:oo pm and 12:00 am and see how he does. I'll just make sure he has lots of food in his cage at 8:00am and then replenish it after he eats at 12:00 pm so he doesn't get to hungary for the 12 hours If it doesn't work I'll go back to giving him three feedings.

 

Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2009/04/05 22:12<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2009/04/05 22:26

[Azzie]

Toxic Food For Parrots: Onions

 

While the use of limited amounts of onion or garlic powders as flavorings is generally regarded as acceptable, excessive consumption of onions causes vomiting, diarrhea, and a host of other digestive problems. It has been found that prolonged exposure can lead to a blood condition called hemolytic anemia, which is followed by respiratory distress and eventual death.

 

From http://www.african-grey-parrots.co.uk/blog/2009/03/10-toxic-foods-for-parrots/

 

I don't know what consitutes "excessive consumption" in a parrot, but I won't be feeding Cleo any onions. I'd rather not take the risk = )<br><br>Post edited by: Azzie, at: 2009/04/06 00:48

[CarolandFamily]

Gorgass everytime I read your post I get so mad! I can't believe that your so called "breeder" acted that way :xm Have you heard anything from them? Did they even call and check on your baby? Did you have a warranty? they should help you with your vet bills at least. I would call them and ask them what are they willing to do because obviously your baby was sick wayyyy before you got him! They should be held responsible for something don't let them get away with that.

[GorgASS]

azzie: thanks! i was just curious what was wrong with onions...i won't be feeding my baby any either! lol

 

carolandfamily: i haven't heard anything from her! nothing. no email back, no returned phone calls...nothing at all. i'm a little pissed about it too. but it makes me wonder...if she did know he was sick and that's why she wanted him gone before he was weaned, what would of happened if i would of said i wasn't comfortable hand feeding him? would she have gotten him meds so he would get better, or would she have let him die? she had to know something was wrong with him cuz his poop smelled horrible and she has been breeding for years. i know next to nothing and i knew it wasn't a good sign. i'm just glad he's with me and getting better. like i said earlier, he's been chattering away and making happy sounds and playing with his toys so much more than before...i know he's feeling better!