ChetWwomack (bird tricks.com)

[danmcq]

Dave007 wrote:

BUT, now I'm stuck with a big problem.

I'm gonna have to teach Dan how to use more blunt down home street words when giving out descriptions of these kinds of things

 

Right on Dave...You go Guy!!

 

Sign me up as soon as those lessons are available!! :-)

[mattpatresi]

ok I'll shut up then;)

[gourdlady247]

well they do offer a money back thing. So masy they will send back my husbands hard earned money. LOL Not holding my breath. I really wanted their videos and audios to work. But I have no luck with them and I do have the time to put in to the videos and George. I just want to get to where he doesn't bite anymore. I'd be happy just to get to that point. But we are only three months in to this relationship. But I can't help to worry that I'm doing the right things for him.

[danmcq]

mattpatresi wrote:

ok I'll shut up then;)

 

LOL - You don't need to do that. Just don't try to stop a train we got rolling along at full steam. Jump on board.

[Dave007]

Again, Dan and I are thinking along the same lines. When people are giving out instructions concerning animals and possible fear, injury, aggressiveness, loss of bonding and other things are possible, those people better MAKE SURE THEIR METHODS COVER THOSE VERY IMPORTANT THINGS and Chetsky and brother are irisponsible people. I shouldn't be so harsh with them? Don't hold your breath. I dare that SOB to come here and deny what Kaedon and I said about that apology and also the fact about not sending the product out. I would chop him up into mince meat. Watch out for people that say they're the ones with the secret solution. Bullshit abounds.

[LindaMary]

{not messin' with Dave or Dan!} >>LindaMary<<{not messin' with Dave or Dan!}

:ohmy: :laugh: :ohmy:

[judygram]

Dan, one word of warning, watch out for those lessons as they can be painful, I speak from experience:whistle:

 

Linda, I am not afraid of either Dan or Dave:kiss:

[she]

Judy you are so brave.I would love to see the outcome if they took Daves dare up and answered some of the posts on hear. Wow, I do hope so.

[danmcq]

Yes, Judy is the Joan Jett of the Forum. :laugh:

 

<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/12/17 14:38

[shanlung]

mattpatresi wrote:

mmm. I wouldn't be so harsh on them. Yes, they're a business, but, if you watch their vids, they seem to have a knack. And stick training is only a small part of it. Seems to me that, to make their stuff work, you need many hours a day, and total consistency, which I don't think many of us can afford. They make it work because it's their job and they can dedicate to it their full-time attention.

 

 

ha ha ha!

 

Need many hours a day?

 

Or it is your fault you cannot follow their CDs?

 

What other built in excuses did they manufactured with their CDs?

 

 

ha ha ha

ho ho ho

 

Didn't Andrew lose his Tui because Andrew was stupid enough to base his training of Tui on Chet CD?

 

I cannot afford to spend many hours a day on Tinkerbell,or Yingshiong, or now with Riamfada

 

AND I DO NOT NEED TO KEEP THEM STARVED THAT THEY MUST BEG FOR FOOD EITHER TO DO 'TRICKS'.

 

I think I did not spend more than 30 minutes each day on training them, especially with Riamfada now.

 

Riam came to me 6 weeks ago, fearful of hands and would not step up.

 

Here he was, last Saturday, outdoor with me and flying to me on recall

 

 

[danmcq]

Hi Shanlung!!

 

Wow, you have made very short and tremendous progress with Riam!!!

 

It's always good to hear from you and see your wonderful photos. :-) Thanks for sharing this with us and your like minded thoughts on Chet.....

[she]

Wow Shanlung, what an achievement, Riam has come so far in such a short time.

[shanlung]

:-)

 

Thank you folks.

 

My blog documented clearly the behavioural problems of Riamfada when he first came to me.

 

And how step by step I overcame that.

 

I never thought of how much 'training time' I spend until I read this thread and that assertion that those bozo trainers spend 4-5 hours 'training'.

 

I wonder how many mindless repititions of step ups and stuff that would entail as if parrots are marionettes. Ah yes, STARVE them so that they crawl and beg and do whatever you want of them?

 

*puke*

 

I thought back and believe I did not spend more than 12 minutes of 'training time' each day with Riamfada.

 

We spend lots of time being together, with him doing his thing and I doing my thing. We do not need to gooey eye each other all the time.

 

Sometime later today, I would upload him flying to named places at home and other videos.

 

You seen his response to my cues to be military like response in most cases when he felt like it.

 

I wrote all that and charged not a penny, other than requests you give to animal charity if you can and you find what I wrote useful.

 

Whereas bozos who gave crap, charge you all through the nose got folks running to him, money in fists,queing up to be ripped off in hope bozos in a CD or two will give you a private road to promised land.

 

The last person with that private road to promised land we got to know was Madoff.

 

Maybe I should charge an arm and leg. But I just cannot promise you promised land. I cannot lie through my teeth, or via finger tips on keyboard.

 

Then maybe more will read what I have done, and more likely to get results than from those bozos.

 

If Andrew read me instead of relying on bozos CD, his Tui might still be with him.

 

And if he searched actively as what I tried to advise him instead of moaning that my writings of how I gotten Tinkerbell back provided him no magic bullets other than promise of lots of hard painful work for him, he might have gotten Tui back.

 

But what I wrote was free, and no cost, and therefore 'worthless'

 

So that is how it is in the real world.

 

Maybe I should just go back to smelling roses instead.

[danmcq]

Shanlung - Please NEVER change. Your work, experience and detailed blogs, photos and videos are one of the greatest teaching tools on the Internet today.

 

The greatest and most renowned teachers of all times, taught for free, yet gave the most wondrous advice, truths and wisdom than any Yale or Harvard profession ever could.......

 

It is the hard work like of people like You and Dave put in that truly help people.

 

The crooks with bad advice, books and Cd's just for the money are the scum of the earth. They are takers, not givers or doers.......

 

I believe most of us here on this forum are with you on your thoughts. :-)

[Talon]

This is such an informative thread thanks to all our experts here. You all have my deepest respect...Dave, Dan, and Shanlung! B)

[gourdlady247]

Well since I stirred up the fire ant pile over Chet and his brother.....

Let me ask about Kim Bear?

Since I spent the money on the one set of CD's It intitled me to get a 30 minute consultant call with her. I suppose she is a bird behaviorist. I have a time to scheduled for 11 am today. To speak with her.

[LindaMary]

Let us know how that goes, Marla, okay?

[she]

Lets know what went on Marla.

[gourdlady247]

WelL I tlked to the kim Bear lady today. And amazingly she pretty much said the same thing everyone on here has said. I guess I wasn't expecting that knowing that she associates with the birdtricks.com people. But she actuall said she didn't agree with some of the things they said.

But I would like to share part of an email that I got tonigt from Chet. Hope I do it right it's kinda long

Well Marla,

 

I'm excited to write you today because I have some great new stuff that I think can drastically reduce how demanding your parrot might be.

 

It's a new CONCEPT that I'm calling:

 

"The No Free Lunch Plan"

 

And if you'll put this concept into practice in your own birds life, you'll have a more obedient parrot.

 

If you've got a bird who's always screaming for your attention, or a bird who you KNOW likes to hang out with you but is being a bit strong willed when it comes time to pick him up... this plan will help your parrot.

 

In fact when I was putting together my Secrets To Stop Screaming course, this was one of the CORE philosophies that I built that program around.

 

Without a "NO Free Lunch Plan" in place in your parrots life, your bird will tend to become demanding... always screaming for attention... or giving you quick nips to get there way.

 

So what is "The NO Free Lunch Plan"?

 

It's about setting up your parrot's day so that he has to earn EVERYTHING!

 

It's about making him earn:

 

>> every ounce of food

 

>> every drink of water

 

>> play time out of his cage

 

>> and even petting!

 

Why would I recommend something like this?

 

It sounds so demanding and uncompassionate, right?

 

But if you take a look at what makes a happy well behaved being in this world, it almost always involves setting up a structured environment.

 

Look at teenagers for example...

 

What happens to a teenage boy or girl, who you're always transferring more money into their accounts so they can go run up their shopping or food bills, instead of being accountable for their money, and having to earn it.

 

People in life respect money more when they have to earn it, NOT when it's given to them.

 

And the weird part about it, is that if someone is used to always getting money without having to work for it, and then one day you stop giving it, what happens?

 

They throw a fit!

 

They're a spoiled brat, and nobody likes being around them.

 

I'm sure some people reading this are saying, yeah Chet, but that's with humans, it's not the same with pets.

 

Oh contraire, my friend...

 

Let's look at dogs as an example that might paint a clearer picture for you.

 

You may not know this, but if you own a dog, and you never make him sit or stay before you "LET" him eat his food, and instead just keep it full all day long and let him eat whenever he wants to...

 

Or you let your dog up on your bed to sleep with you without giving him permission...

 

Or you play tug of war with a doggie rope toy and your dog is NOT trained to drop the rope even in mid tug...

 

Guess what you're doing?

 

You're showing the dog that he's the one in charge. You're giving him everything he wants, and he doesn't even have to ask for it... he just takes it!

 

And this starts to do weird things like promotes aggression in your dog, territorialism, barking at strangers etc.

 

Basically it creates a BUNCH of issues!

 

All because you let him get his way all the time.

 

Now to be fair, birds aren't necessarily like dogs. They obviously have different genetic backgrounds that don't make ALL the same rules apply.

 

But the fact remains...

 

I've never seen a bird who's been put on a "No Free Lunch Plan" who didn't become easier to handle and more well behaved.

 

Here's an example:

 

A while back I wrote about one thing you can try if your parrot isn't stepping up on your hand to come out of his cage.

 

In that newsletter I talked about how I was able to take my Cockatiel at the time, who liked me, liked coming out, but just didn't want to step onto my hand, to step up in his cage after just 3 days.

 

What did I do?

 

I would put my hand into my birds cage, ask him to step up, and if he didn't step up I'd close the cage door and try again an hour later.

 

I stopped allowing my bird to come outside and play unless he first obeyed me.

 

You see, you want your parrot to see you as a person he has to listen to, if he wants to get things. It's a RULE you want your parrot to start living his life by.

 

It's not that you make him fear the iron fist... just a more gentle way to TEACH him how to respect you.

 

This doesn't always work right away... in fact my cockatiel spent 3 days in his cage without coming out, before he finally gave in, stepped up, and came out to play.

 

Just 3 days and he figured it out, and now all my birds know that they can't just climb out of their cages, they need to step up kindly first, or they don't come out.

 

But, I do need to CLARIFY something...

 

The reason this was effective for my Cockatiel, was because more than anything, he wanted to come out of his cage.

 

Being out of the cage WAS his motivation.

 

Plus, he wasn't afraid of me. He was just being stubborn and thick headed, because I hadn't been a good daddy and taught him in a loving way how being my pet bird was going to work.

 

And as soon as I put some structure in place his behavior got MUCH better in all areas of our relationship, not just stepping up in the cage.

 

So the lesson in this is that if you have a bird who you can tell likes being around you, this is something I'd recommend you start phasing into his life.

 

You'll see some amazing turnarounds.

 

And please email me back at info@birdtricks.com with your success stories about how this works for you, so other readers can benefit from your story.

 

This is also a good example of a philosophy I'll be teaching at our Live Seminars and what I teach inside my new 72 Hours To A Hand Tamed Parrot programs.

 

Because inside those programs I talk about how their are 4 levels of fear that parrots must be TAUGHT how to overcome to ever be nice, hand tamed parrots.

 

And each phase of fear that your parrot may be in, requires a DIFFERENT technique to help him overcome that fear and be a better bird.

 

Use the wrong technique for the wrong type of fear, and you get NO results... push your bird too long and hard with the wrong technique for the wrong issue, you may even damage the relationship.

 

So when I give you a specific technique, I'm trying to show you what type of parrot it will work best on. And in this case of the "No Free Lunch Plan", it won't work well on birds who don't like you.

 

It works well for birds who at least have some affection for you.

 

It doesn't have to be much, but they do need some.

 

That's why I created my Hand Taming course. As a resource to help get people's parrots to the point where they can use some of these higher level techniques to continue to grow deeper more meaningful, respectful bonds with their parrots every day.

 

Here's hoping this was helpful!

 

Chet

 

BirdTricks.com

[Dave007]

Exactly why are your reasons for putting in this post about literature that you received from him?

What's your point here?

 

 

Besides the idiotic things he's saying about his quick fix methods, he's also gone one more step out of bounds. He advocates giving no food, no water until the rules are obeyed. That in itself is cruel but it's even more cruel to watch a person actually do things like that. It shows me that the person has absolutely no confidence in her/himself in dealing with animals. People who do these things shouldn't be animal owners.

These incompetent people buy an animal and then expect everyone else to do the grunge work. No homework is done. Hopefully, they'll get the right answer that's appealing.

 

He brings in how to do the proper thing with teenagers, other animals, obedience training.

 

I've said alot in this whole thread and as I see and hear about the bad things that he says and the actual bad experiences people have gone through, I start to lose my fervor and desire to rehash things that have been spoken about with so many people. This letter you posted is so wide open for getting bombarded with negative responses that it's not worth it for me to continue talking about other than one thing......

 

Dogs----When I was born, there was a 3 yr old dog already living there. I've never not had a dog to this very day. When my son was born there was a 1 yr old dog already there. It was like having two children. My son has never not had a dog until 3 yrs ago when he moved away and in the places he moved into they didn't allow animals. He's been a lonely guy without a dog even though he's got plenty of girlfriends, male friends. 6mts ago, that all changed. He's living in a great spacious apartment that allows animals and he's had his eye on one particular type of dog for months. He's visited that litter of puppies 3 times since they were born and last week I got the magic call--Mom,dad, please meet at xxxxx house. I wanna let you see what the puppy looks like. I,m taking him home. I had to drive 3 hrs to see that dog but it was worth it when I saw the gleam in his eyes as he held that puppy.

My son already knows how to housebreak and train any dog to do the simple basics that the above post talks about but if I ever found out that he's strayed from that knowledge and decides to not feed or give water to that puppy in order to achieve something, I would be all over him like white on rice. Luckily, I know my son wouldn't even think about that because it would seem cruel and alien to put an animal through that.

 

So, that's it for me. Let the others here make chop suey out of the latest and newest enlightening statements in that letter that comes from the all knowing guru.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/20 03:49

[gourdlady247]

I was wondering if this sounds right. Kim kinda touched on this during our conversation, but I didn't understand exactly as to what it ment. I guess I'm confused as to wether give him the food as I always do or when working with him taking his food away. I keep food in his cage at all times. Sould it not be done like that?

I didn't mean anything by posting part of the email I got. If I shouldn't have I'm sorry. I was just wondering if what it said was a right or not. I just want to do what is good for George. There is so much conflicting information out there. I just want opinions that I feel I can trust.

[shanlung]

I think I go smell roses.

 

 

Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2008/12/20 04:24<br><br>Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2008/12/20 04:38

[she]

As far as I am concerned, I like any of my pets to do things because they want to.Not because it is the only way to recieve what is there right,food, water,afection and attention. I have never deprived any of my animals, in the past I have had cats, dogs ,horses, rabbits, and all have trusted me to provide all they need, when they need it .I think the concept of making any animal earn lifes sustinance is horrible.Ok, I see no wrong in holding back a favourite treet untill you have a training session and using it as a reward but food and water, no way.My Horses used to compete with me at cross country and show jumping as well as ridden hunter classes and I schooled them myself purely by reward and repetition.I use exactly the same method with my birds. Ok they will never do displays or such but they are in my eyes very well behaved pets. yes I get the odd thing chewed up or damaged but they are parrots and thats what they do.It is my fault for leaving things in the way of beaks.What I am trying to say is that much more is gained by trust and kindness and patiance than horrible methods advised by two people who it is clear are only out for themselves. I unsubscribed from the emails long long ago and I advise anyone to do the same. Dont waste your money or loose your parrots trust. I do set ground rules for the birds but they are rewarded for sticking to the rules,not punished in anyway for straying from them.This has alway worked for me.<br><br>Post edited by: she, at: 2008/12/20 19:37

[spookyhurst]

I remember getting an email from them saying that if you order now, you'll get this and that free + free phone consultations. Day 2's email said that due to overwhelming response, free phone consultations were no longer included but they would give you something else. Same thing with day 3's email. So I used a second account to sign up for their emails. I got the exact same ones and in the exact same order. I knew then that they were nothing more than scammers, because legitimate companies aren't going to use such awful marketing techniques.

[danmcq]

A snippet from the "Chet" crap that tells you exactly why he wrote it: "This is also a good example of a philosophy I'll be teaching at our Live Seminars and what I teach inside my new 72 Hours To A Hand Tamed Parrot programs."

 

Just another sales pitch to get you hooked into giving him more money........

 

....At the end of his article, he starts explaining why this crappy technique may not work, to try and divert any negative press he may get when the technique does not work....namely, every bird is different and this may not work AND you could end up damaging the relationship even more if the bird doesn't already like you...

 

What kind of double talk is that?????

 

I could rip his entire article to pieces, but I am not going to give it any further waste of my precious time, that I can go and read peoples questions here that may need a REAL answer from a caring person for FREE.

 

Dave and Shanlung already said it well...