ChetWwomack (bird tricks.com)

[judygram]

Amen to that Dan and if no one mentions Chet's name here again it will be too soon.

[LindaMary]

Marla:

 

Feed George as have been doing. Don't let your success with George depend on the availability of food or water. He is already struggling with history and trust issues, and you already know it will take time and patience with him.

 

I think you have amply shown that you are really trying to do what is right in trying to gain the trust of this re-homed bird, and I would hate to see our collective venting over some proven charlatans obscure your honest efforts.

 

Think: human toddler. Think: adopted human toddler with semi-unknown past and some behavioral issues that may have been formed by that past. George will come around - it'll take a while. It sounds like he needs love and space - a tricky cocktail, but I give you credit for taking up the challenge.

[shanlung]

Do not let the loss of Tui to be in vain.

 

That if Tui died, that death not be a useless needless death.

 

Even if Andrew was that stupid to start with, its those bozo brothers that lead him on with their @$%^*()_&^% crap in their CDs.

 

What other parrots that got lost that we did not know about?

 

Why analyse what bozos had written? Part they must have stolen from others, part must be from b grade movies they seen, part of that a whole load of crap they made up.

 

What they write make me want to puke.

 

So bozo brothers can make their fast bucks and go laughing all the way to their banks?

 

I hope bozo brothers kept their money in Madoff funds.

[gourdlady247]

well Ihave unsubscribed to their emails, And threw their stupid $50 cd in the trash.

[Tycos_mom]

Good for you Marla the more love & patient you give George the more he will respond with the same in return open your heart as much as you can and let him see all the love you have for him he will parrot can sence what you are feeling. So0 when you are working with him do it with as much love as possible and you will see thing start to change it may be slow in comeing but it will happen. It took months before Tyco allowed me to touch her feathers in anyway without trying to bite me. Even when she did start to allow it it as a slow process of ok you can touch my head for 1 second no longer and every day that time got a little longer, now she love me to give her scritches and pets but it only happened with love and patients. I have never even considered taking her food from her she has access to food 24/7 and always will have.

[shanlung]

Somtimes I would just give the URL of my blog that I felt might be interesting enough.

 

Such as this latest

 

Getting Riam to do a flyabout// how sickening could I get?

 

http://http://shanlung.livejournal.com/92468.html

 

In this particular case, and because it originated from this thread, I will print this here in full.

 

You might not wish to read it

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

Getting Riam to do a flyabout// how sickening could I get?

 

 

23 Dec 08

 

A faster Internet was returned to me this morning, courtesy of the French repair works on those broken undersea cables.

 

Some photos had been added to my Flickr.

 

You will see horrid Katie, and Dommie going up the ladder to try to persuade her as I related earlier. And you see photos of us and Dommie taking our walks. And how the Tinkerbell Mash Biscuits looked like. And how Riam would accompany me when I watched TV

 

Here are some of those photos. More are in this folder

Riam Mash Biscuits & walk

 

(photos in blog)

 

Dommie going up ladder to his crazy sister Katie

 

 

walk with Riam and Dommie and wife taking photo

 

 

 

walk with Riam and Dommie and wife taking photo

 

 

 

In the early days of clicker training with Riamfada, I would do that in the morning before I went to work, in the afternoon when I was back for lunch and in the evening. He would be given his mash and I then had my breakie or lunch and a bit of vegetating, and I would go back to Riam with clicker and sunflower seed in hand. I have told how at times he would take a break from formal clicker training and his sunflower seeds to go and munch at his mash before flying out of his cage to resume training. So I think he loved his mash as much as sunflower seeds to have done that.

 

Now, I would just go to see him after my breakie and before I went for work to give him a few seeds and head rubs. And the same during lunch.

 

It was the evening where the bulk of clicker training and play with him.

 

You seen in the video the response and speed of his response. I have no belief in mindless repeats after repeats. He would be bored , and I would be bored.

 

From time to time in the evening, I would slip out of the beaded curtains and sliding mesh door to have a ciggie outside.

 

So it was that way on Sunday evening when I did that. It was dark, but I guess Riamfada could still see me standing just outside keeping my eyes on him. He might be on his perch, and he would fly off, hover briefly near the door to eye me, and then continued around the room and back to the perch or the bar. He might do one and half circuit and land on ring. I love the way he did a circuit of the room and wondered if I could capitalise on that. This would be very important especially if we were outside. That the bird would fly in a big loop and return. This would be called a flyabout

 

In the days with Tinkerbell, she would be placed somewhere and I would do a recall. I had tried a flyabout once with her, with disasterous and spectacular results.

 

http://http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/wTsaoling2.html

 

Other background reading

 

Hoping to cue for 'flyabout'

http://http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/wflyflyfly1.htm

 

Hoping to cue for 'flyabout'2

http://http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/wflyflyfly2.htm

 

 

I was thinking how I might try to teach Riam to do that flyabout clearly. With all those perches in the living room, it was too easy for him to land there instead of doing a circuit of the room to return to me.

 

Then I thought of the dining room. I had planned to install perches for Riamfada to be used later in 'hide & seek' recalls, recalls from sight unseen places. The branch that you seen hanging from the ring perch was one of those I planned to use in dining room. But procrastination had gotten better of me and stuff that I should have done yesterday were put off to that day after tomorrow. And that branch hung on that ring instead.

 

But dining room was clear, with a sofa chair used by catties to plot more mishaps on me and a small table in the corner used by my wife for Internet.

 

I got back into the living room to delight of Riam who flew to me immediately. We then went to the dining room, a room that we always passed through from her room to living room. I stood to the side of the room with Riam on his hand perch and looked around me. I call to her 'fly fly fly' , twisted the perch to persuade him and he took off to this new cue. With no clear landing places, he flew around the room as I thought he would. I hold up the perch as the clear landing and called out 'Come'. He landed on that perch. He basically did a circuit and came back to me.

 

I think he got that idea immediately.

 

After lots of seeds and praises, I positioned him again. At my call of 'fly fly fly', he took off without me having to twist the perch. He flew that circuit of room and came to me on come. The room was not that big. Come came at the end of fly fly fly. My fly was drawn out. So it sounded

'f l y ...f l y ... f l y ... come'.

 

That was repeated and done very successfully by Riam another 4-5 times.

 

I think I got that mechanism of a flyabout to Riam, something I could not get into Tinkerbell as you seen in above earlier writings.

 

This still had to be checked in the living room with those more distractions of hanging perches. And then later in the garden patio. And later on beach, desert , and top of mountains and everywhere we would go.

 

You known of how I tried to get Riamfada to accept that cat carrier. That cat carrier ( refered to as cc) had been placed in his room. In the evening when he was taken to living room, that cc was brought out too. In snuggle sessions, I would sit near the cc.

 

That cc also had a heap of sunflower seeds placed on top to encourage him to get that.

 

In Riam's room, that cc was placed on the trolley and kind of near his high perch.

 

You known from my rant below,

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/91826.html

 

I was engaged in heated dispute. You will need to go to that original thread of that dispute to understand fully.

 

So it was on Monday morning when I woke up and stepping into Riam's room that I thought about how to further persuade Riam to accept the cc. Riam did not even want to fly there to eat the seeds in full sight of him. That dispute talked of the way you use hunger to impose your will as the bozo brothers private road to that promised land where your parrot will do and perform your will.

 

Talking in thread there had this insidious effect on me. Through the perfidious process that we termed as logical rationalisation, I thought I could 'persuade' Riam to accept that cc. I could not use full hunger. What I did was to give Riam a quarter of the mash portion that morning. I rationalised that I was not starving him, and he could go to the seeds on that cc, and that was for his own good.

 

After my breakfast, I went in to note with satisfaction Riam finished the mash and scrap clean that bowl. But I felt it strange he did not fly to me when I re-enter the room but was on his bar. He did step up slowly for me to get his seed. I moved back for recall. He slowly flap his wings in parody of flight and did not fly to me. I tried again, to get his flying parody. But unlike that parroty jokes he pulled, I sensed no humour from him. I took him out to the dining room and tried a fly fly fly with him. Instead of a full circuit of the room, he flew in a tight circle not more than a meter from me and back to the perch. And I had to twist the perch to fly him.

 

I had to go to work.

 

Then when I got back for lunch, I saw he had not gone to those seeds on cc as yet. I gave him quarter ration of mash in his cage. As I knew he liked the mash as much if not more than sunflower seeds (in the past, he had flown back to cage to eat mash in middle of formal clicker training with seeds), I had brought another bowl with mash and left that on top of the cc. After my lunch, I went to him to see he finished the mash in his cage and was on his bar. I went in with full formal clicker regalia. To get that flight parody from Riam.

 

I rationalised that was for his own good that I had to be strong and compelled him.

 

I got back from work in the late afternoon. He made no attempt to get that bowl of mash on top of the cc, or those seeds.

 

I folded.

 

I took that bowl from top of cc and hold that to him on the bar. He sank his head in and took a gobble of mash. I thought he was going to eat and eat. He then got his head out after that single gobble and head rub me with his head on my finger holding that bowl. He followed that with a gentle nibble on my finger. He then took another bite of mash, and head rubbed me, and nibbled me. And again, and again.

 

I felt so ashamed from what he was doing to me.

 

I stood there in atonement, with waves after waves of remorse in me. As to how I could have done that to him, using hunger to compel him, as if he was not my equal. I felt with shame how I could be so easily contaminated from writings of bozo brothers I spoke against. I promised Riamfada that never ever would I ever compel him with hunger again and I would always remembered he is my equal. And this episode would always be remembered with shame on my part.

 

Later in the evening when I tried the fly fly fly come, I was sad he did not do that full circuit of the dining room like he did the first time. I accepted that in humility as the cost of my disasterous use of hunger on him.

 

This morning, Tuesday morning, I went in to give him his full mash ration. I came back after my breakie to see with satisfaction that he ate much of it with some left over. I was holding perch and clicker, formal clicker regalia.

 

He flew to me when I entered the room. He did all the recalls and fly to perch, fly to bar with military precision to the cues.

 

I still want him to accept that cat carrier. But that will never ever be done using hunger to force him to do so.

[shannonzee]

I have heard of this site, and I have purchased a few of their videos as well. At first, it was overwhelming, and I thought "This is never going to happen", so I put it away, and chalked it up to lost money. A few months ago, I was still not having any success in my grey NOT biting me, not listening, etc. (She loves my husband). I pulled out the videos & gave it an honest effort.

 

What a huge surprise! I'm kicking myself for not taking it seriously earlier! Although she's not a "superstar" like the birds on the videos, she is taking a huge interest in learning the tricks. AND she is now respecting me - no more biting, snapping, etc. She still won't let me pet her like my husband can, but there is a level of excitement when she sees me - almost "What are we going to do today?" kind of look!

 

I do work full time, and I didn't think this was ever going to work. Until I realized that even 20 minutes in the evenings was going to work out

 

If you invest your time and patience, I am sure you won't be disappointed!

 

Yes, the emails can be annoying, but when you read the stories, sometimes an idea that someone else had works! We need to shake down our pride of being bird owners, and admit, we don't always know everything. If we did, we'd all have perfect birds, wouldn't we?

 

Some of his stuff is common sense, but sometimes, it's the way he presents it - the biggest one for me? Thinking like a bird - especially the 2 year old that we all have.

[danmcq]

Hello Shannonzee and welcome!

 

I am glad you found something useful on those items you paid money for. Namely something that broke the barrier between you and your Grey.

 

I actually suspect it was more your determination to give building a better, stronger relationship with the grey. Rather than just giving up to the thought that the Grey had chosen your husband as the favorite.

 

Some of us have purchased and reviewed "Chet's" products in the distant past and realized he not only gave bad advise, but was himself just learning about how to deal with parrots and decided to capitalize on it monetarily, rather than give good and correct advice for free like we do here on this forum.

 

Some of the things Chet and his brother promulgate as truth or new concepts are actually completely wrong and some very dangerous for your bird.

 

Again, welcome to the forum. :-) We care and help for FREE!!<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/01/20 16:33

[judygram]

danmcq wrote:

We care and help for FREE!!

 

EXACTLY, thank you Dan.

[shannonzee]

I am in no way defending Chet - I am happy that I obtained some information for the $$ that I spent! I have been a bird owner for only about 7 years, and through that short time, I have seen (I'm sure you all have) people who think they're bird owners, when, in fact, they are just slowly killing their pets with neglect, boredom, malnourishment, etc.

 

I am the queen of looking for help - I have read just about every website out there, every book, just because I want to be sure I am not doing anything wrong. In truth, they all pretty much say the same thing, just in different ways. But, unless we take the time to learn, we are not going to ever improve.

 

You are probably right in stating that it was my determination to do this that 'broke' ground with Belle, and I cannot be happier with the difference in her personality!

[spookyhurst]

What kind of tricks are you and Belle working on? I taught Nikko to wave by clicker training. But I never tried to train her to do anything else. We need some ideas please !

[shannonzee]

Right now, her favorite trick is to take a key, lego piece, anything that makes noise & to drop it into a metal bowl. She does it on command, and only gets a trick if she succeeds (Now). It seems boring - but she loves it! Eventually, we're going to work towards matching shapes into one of those children's blocks (hopefully).

 

The other trick we're working on is learning her colors - this is a long & tedious process, but we're starting with blue, then we'll slowly add other colors so she memorizes them.

 

As far as speaking - she seems to be leaning toward learning songs & animal noises! She "do-do's" the Winnie the Pooh song, and has parts of Jingle Bells. Whenever she's in the mood, she says "Wanna sing?" Then breaks into her versions!

 

Most of the tricks that I am going to do are variations of the videos received from Chet's website. Not all of them are going to work - I know that, but learning about her & her curiosities is the first step!

[shanlung]

<br><br>Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2009/01/26 20:23

[danmcq]

Oh look - "Chet" baby realized his training lessons didn't work on a rehabbed African Grey. Go figure and note he wears gloves to force his way on this Grey.

 

Can you believe he stated a new training seminar due to it to make more $$$???

 

I feel sorry for that Grey in his care.....

 

http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/african-grey-parrot-care/<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/02/09 17:19

[shannonzee]

I'm going to "defend" Chet...Yes, he is making millions off of inexperienced bird owners, and yes, some of his techniques are odd (to say the least). However, have any of you ever been at your wits end with your bird (noise, neediness, destruction, stubborness, etc)? Although I may not agree with all of his ways, I do find, that if I listen, and think about what he's talking about, I can make sense of MY birds, and incorporate some of his techniques into my daily training. I don't WANT a bird that just sits & cuddles, or stays in his cage. Yes, over time, they will "get used to you", but we all have birds that are going to live a VERY long time - most of them will outlive us! Don't you want to know that when you're gone, your bird will be a happy, easygoing pet that ANYONE will be able to take care of? That's my concern ~ who wants a bird that will only allow ONE person to play with them? When you're gone - who is that ONE person going to be? No One...I know my "kids" aren't perfect, but if you really sit & listen to his advice, and think about it - he really does explain a LOT of how a bird thinks, reacts, and honestly? I had no idea how to "think like a bird". I will be the first one to say that I'm not an expert, and I will be the first one in line to accept & learn new techniques & advice.

[danmcq]

shannonzee wrote:

 

Ok, here are answers to your statements:

 

1 - "That's my concern ~ who wants a bird that will only allow ONE person to play with them? When you're gone - who is that ONE person going to be?"

 

A - You don't not have a choice of who or how many people your parrot may or may not decide to interact with. This is especially true as they age. You can help avoid this behavior by socializing your grey with many people from the time he/she is young. The bird will decide if or whom it will trust when you/I are "Gone".

 

2 - "No One...I know my "kids" aren't perfect, but if you really sit & listen to his advice, and think about it - he really does explain a LOT of how a bird thinks, reacts, and honestly?"

 

A - I cannot stand to listen to his crap. He does not know how a bird thinks and each species/individual will have their own thoughts, likes, dislikes etc. If you read this forum and/or many others plus read books, you will find "Chet" is out there in his theories and dangerous at times by giving bad advice.

 

You don't need to agree with my comments, but I can tell you they are the "Truth".