how many african grey damage feathers

[Janfromboone]

:whistle: According to my vet 50% of african greys engage in some sort of feather abuse. He didn't specify CAG or TAG. Let's take a poll and prove him wrong. I think TAG are more emotionally stable and so I think we should specify TAG or CAG. I'll put Tobie-(CAG-1.5years old), at the top of the list since he has recently chewed off his flight feathers. Age is important since the vet said it doesn't start until the bird is between 1-2 years old or older. Wish I could make a graph to just tick a box with the mouse. Can the moderators do that?:unsure:

[Lyric]

Lyric (TAG) broke all his tail feathers off when he was very young (maybe around 6 months?). When they started growing back in he would break them off when they got an inch or so long. He did this for a while and then stopped and eventually all the tail feathers grew back in normally. I don't know if you want to count that or not since he was under a year and also the behavior has since stopped.

[Janfromboone]

Maybe we should find out how many start the behavior and then it stops. That would be a comfort to me. The vet was a real downer. He said he wouldn't recommend african greys as pets because they just can't handle it. They are too sensitive. Tobie has stopped chewing his feathers off too, for now. I told him I wouldn't be sorry I got Tobie even if he chewed every feather he had off. And I meant it. I might be sorry for Tobie but he would still be a pleasure to me.

[BaxtersMom]

Baxter is 12 years old and a CAG. I got him about 6 months ago and haven't had any trouble with him being destructive with his feathers. I don't know about the first 12 years of his life.

 

This is a good post and going to be interesting.

 

I think that vet is a downer too and not sure I would be comfortable taking my grey in to see him if he already has a bad opinion about greys as pets:dry:

[icegudi]

When I got my bird about one years old a year ago ( he is about two now) he used to gnaw flight feathers on his left wing. With a lot of bathing, aloe vera and sprays from the vet it has gotten much better.

I was just checking now and its just one feather on the end of the wing that has some small marks of gnawing if you look closely. It's a huge difference from before.

 

I also try to remind him who those feathers belong to (ME) and since he likes me so much, I don't think he wants to ruin my feathers

[BaxtersMom]

:laugh: That's funny iceguard..."your feathers" I like that. Thats how I feel about the feathers too and I save everyone that falls out during Baxters molts. He's not giving up many of the tail feathers yet. I only have 2 so far.

[Janfromboone]

I like that too. It's not Tobie who is upset when he chews a feather off. It's me. On the wing that he chewed the feathers off of, right beside the chewed off featers are three pin feathers that seem to be coming in at the same time. Maybe it was painful and that is why he chewed the others off - just as these new ones broke throught the skin.

 

Don't have any other choices of vets that I know of. I think there was a vet finder assist post. I'll look that up.<br><br>Post edited by: Janfromboone, at: 2008/12/11 02:15

[Tycos_mom]

When I first got Tyco every flight feather on her left wing was chewed completel off. I beleive that she had a bad clip as a baby and just kept chewing that side because everytime it started to grow in it irritated her. she was 4yrs old when I got her and the person I got her from thought it was a birth defect because it had always been like that for as long as he had Tyco. I took Tyco to the vet and had her wings clipped to match each other because she was so off balance she would constantly fall on her keel and I was sure that if something wasn't done she would hurt herself. Since I had her wings evened out she no longer chews her feathers and is now fully flighted and is just learning how to fly she was not permited to fledge as a baby. I like to think that she stopped chewing because she is happy and healthy but its more than likely because I had her wings fixed for her so when they started to grow they where no longer as irritating to her so she had no more need to chew them off.

[Jane08]

We have 2 CAG's, one is just over 1 and the other is 2. Neither of them have chewed their feathers. 50% seems a bit too high. Recently I was at a bird meeting and of the 20 greys there only 1 was a plucker.

[Janfromboone]

Glad to hear that. 50% seems hight to me since being on the forum and seeing so many beautiful fully feathered greys.

[TinyTimneh]

Well, just to counteract your opinion that TAG's are stable I've got Jacko, who's 8(9?) and has chewed his feathers in the same spots to varying degrees for all of the three years he's been with me and was doing so long before he came to me. My local vet is a downer too, basically told me it was normal for greys to do that and at least I should be grateful he hasn't plucked himself bald. Sometimes it just comes to the bird in question and its genetics/environment... maybe your vet is used to seeing greys with bad parents bought by people who don't raise them right?

[Janfromboone]

I refuse to believe that Tobie's feather chewing is from bad parenting. I know that might be the case in some situations, but in many I'm sure the owners have done everything they can to prevent or stop it. I know there are some birds kept in deplorable conditions that are fully feathered. I'm planning to try to put together a survey that can be mailed to all birds owners that will have specifics about lifestyles, diet, cage placement, etc and try to see if the feather pickers have anything in common. You mentioned genetics. That could be a big one. Unfortunately not many of us know if our birds parents were feather pickers.

[danmcq]

Dayo - CAG - No plucking. But, flighted.....

[TinyTimneh]

Oh my, wait lemme clarify, I never meant to suggest you or anyone else on here were bad birdy parents, however, I was referring to the situation of some people buying a grey simpyl because it's cool or something like that.

[Gryphon]

I've seen plucking in birds other than greys and it was related to hormones. Females plucking a brood patch and not stopping or males getting so frustrated they pluck. It usually stops when the hormones tone down, but like you said some are obsessive. I do know how you feel though. There's a general perception that any plucked bird is suffering and not being well cared for. My parrotlet was almost completely naked and I used to be afraid people would think she was abused!

[Janfromboone]

The comments are all appreciated - no offense taken. I guess eventually with carefull selection of breeding pairs we will eventually breed out this behaviour, but for now we just have to deal with it and try to prevent it.

[Jane08]

Do you think the ratio of pluckers/chewers is different between flighted and clipped greys? So, would you see more greys become pluckers if they have been clipped when young or at any stage of their life and less pluckers if they are flighted?

[dblhelix]

Kip, 2.5 yrs old. No signs of any plucking. Slight damage to outermost flights edges due to banging them on stuff! Fully flighted since about 18 mo's (after 1st molt completed). Very good flier now.

 

There absolutely is data that supports clipped birds have a higher plucking tendancy than flighted birds. At minimum one should try and ensure their birds are fully fledged and allowed to learn complete flight skills before clipping. This can reduce tendencies. By no means am I saying all clipped birds pluck, but it has been strongly linked to this behavior. Read the many posts on the forum debating clipping vs flighted to see of the of pro's/con's and logic supporting the different approaches... <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/12/15 16:37

[Dave007]

I'm against clipping but I'll put that aside right now and speak of ratios and percentages

 

"""""Do you think the ratio of pluckers/chewers is different between flighted and clipped greys?"""""

I do believe that there's a difference in the plucking ratio concerning clipped and unclipped birds.

 

The reason that I feel this way is because the percentage of birds being clipped before they should be clipped contributes to the inability of the bird to develop proper strength in certain areas of the body that have to do with coordination. Many people go and buy birds from certain breeders or unknowing pet shops and are already clipped so those birds never get a chance to go through the proper process of strength development. Concerning pet shops who sell birds like that, I simply call it negligence because most of the time they didn't do the actual clipping. They get in and simply sell them. Concerning private breeders who do that, I call them cruel. They're thinking first about the customer, second about the bird. Screw the customer. People who sell birds have to do the right thing but many are impatient and want that dollar quickly. The customer has to be told that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. They can't put up with that? Again, screw the customer.

There'sa big chance that birds who were prematurely and then allowed to grow out their feathers may never actually fly. All they know about is falling on the floor and banging themselves off objects laying around. If they do decide to fly,the walls and curtains and other items will be a part of that bird's flying experience. Birds were meant to fly. That's why they have wings. Birds should be given the opportunity to feel the experience of flying. Confidence will lessen a bird's desire to pluck out of frustration.

This is a fact of life about birds. You walk, they fly.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/15 19:11

[pionexx21]

Is it possible that we will see skewed statistics due to the fact that we are on a forum? I would say those who spend time reading forum posts are more actively engaged in their greys life. In my opinion the lack of attention is a part of the desire for greys to pluck.

[danmcq]

Jane08 wrote:

Do you think the ratio of pluckers/chewers is different between flighted and clipped greys?

 

Yes, I'm with Dave on this. Just as in the wild, a fully flighted bird is not going to damage itself that it can no longer fly from danger, not be able to recover from a slip or fall and not be able to follow the flock or forage.

 

A clipped bird, may not even know it could fly and may not see the REAL value of all those feathers or what they are for. Also, never having fledged or given the chance to due to the wings being clipped too early, the actual full development of key brain functions that have to do with flight and navigating may be seriously compromised and cause mental issues not yet known and plucking may be related to that also. There's just too many unknowns at this point.

 

However, it is known that wild caught greys, do not pluck even though confined to a cage for life. They may pluck a little such as that seen in mating etc., but they will not damage themselves to the point they can not fly and escape.

 

There are many questions that truly need to be researched and answered by a scientific study.

[Luvparrots]

I believe plucking can happen for all kinds of reasons, boredom, illness, heredity, bad environment-- air circulation thus dry skin, nervousness, a long line of things, the most important thing is to do whatever you can to stop or correct the "cause" or "condition." And thanks to Dave and Dan, and any number of other experienced grey owners in this forum, and a good avian vet if necessary for medication, a caring grey owner can find a solution. If I find Ana Grey develops this problem, for sure this is the first place I will come for answers, Gee I luv this forum!!!

 

Oh yeah, 4 month old TAG-- no plucking or destruction.<br><br>Post edited by: luvparrots, at: 2008/12/17 00:09

[Janfromboone]

I had planned to clip Tobie again. (He was clipped when I bought him, but a very conservative clip). I wanted to keep him safe from flying into windows or especially out the door. I thought I'd let all his molted flight feathers grow out fully before I made the final descision. Guess he made the decision for me. He no longer has a conservative clip. He is clipped to the skin. He only chewed off the few new long flight feathers he had grown in. He has a bunch more coming in now. I plan to leave them long because right now he really can't fly like he could before. Now, I would love to have the opportunity to let him be flighted. If being clipped did this to him I'll take my chances with the dangers of being flighted. That would make a great survey question. How many flighted birds actually pluck vs clipped.

[Goralka08]

Type: TAG

 

Sex: Female

 

Age: between 10-15 years old (calculated by how many years she was with owner who passed away)

 

Feathers: ZERO feather destruction and no plucking

[casper]

Three Cags, 18 months, 10 months and 7 months. All fully flighted, no plucking or destruction.