Dobie and Grey

[Trustdace]

Here's our doberman Ace and our grey Congo. And yes that's my wifey!!

[judygram]

Nice picture Roger but I have never understood why people do that to their dog's ears, the poor thing:ohmy:

[HeatherStrella]

judygram wrote:

Nice picture Roger but I have never understood why people do that to their dog's ears, the poor thing:ohmy:

 

DITTO!!!:ohmy:

[kittykittykitty]

It's part of the AKC standard if one is going to show.

[Trustdace]

Believe me I don't agree but like kitty said its an AKC standard. It was the wife's choice but it makes the dog look so much better. It really looks worse than it is.....honest. :side:

[siobha9]

Please forgive my ignorance... I know nothing about Dobermans :unsure: What have you done to his ears?

[lovemyGreys]

Siobhan the ears have been docked,i believe a common practice in the US,which should really be done in the first two weeks after a pup is born.It is more common in Dobermans & boxers.Docking the ears makes them stand erect as opposed to the natural hanging ears they are born with.Docking of the tail and ears are both procedures which are always going to be very controversial .

[judygram]

Well I might get slammed here but I think if they are born with their ears hanging then that is what is natural for them and doing surgery to make them stand up is in contrast with what comes natural, my opinion of course.:pinch:

[Trustdace]

Yeah well we like ours docked or cropped. It is common in Pit Bull Terriers too.B)

[siobha9]

I'm sorry I asked And he isnt a 2 week old puppy either, poor doggy:(

[Toni]

I had two Dobeys and I had their ears cropped before they turned 13 weeks old. My Weims litter had to get the tails done in 3 days of birth.To me it's ok. It's a procedure they forget like a baby boy getting circumcized.

[lovemyGreys]

Well this is always going to be controversial topic,if it is performed for medical reasons & i can speak from experience, then i don't find this a problem,if it is purely for cosmetic reasons to enhance your dogs look then I'm totally against it.My boxer was continually thrashing her tail to the point she damaged it so bad it had to be docked.

[judygram]

Then that is perfectly ok if it is for medical reasons but just for cosmetic purposes it seems a cruel procedure, thank god we don't have to do things like that to our birds, they would never forgive us:angry:

[lovemyGreys]

Well in a sense Judy people do,birds are born with wings as dogs are born with droopy ears or long tails as nature intended ,i know all the pros & cons for clipping so im not opening that can of worms, but isn't clipping the wings not dissimilar to shortening a tail ?

[Trustdace]

Ok, ok, hold on you guys. Being the wonderful animal lovers that you all are it makes perfect sense for the over-reaction. First of all i've kept dogs since I was 9 years old. I am 32 now so that's 23 years under my belt with dogs. Let me clear up some info that lovemygreys put out here. The term for cutting the ears is cropped, for cutting the tail is docked. The tails are docked at 3 days of birth. The cropping of the ears is practiced not only in the U.S. but internationally (just tune in to any televised dog show). Absolutely no vet will crop a dogs ears before 10 weeks of age; the ears are to small to get a good sizing for proportional growth as to the head in the future. Most vets recommend 12 weeks is the best time and that is what my dogs is 12 weeks. I had this procedure done by a proffesional licensed vet who has been seeing my dogs, my other family memebers' dogs, and my personal friends' dogs for over 14 years. While this surgery is totally unnecessary (call it a cosmetic uprgrade if you will) there is a slight benefit from it; the ears are easier to maintain clean and it is easier to treat ear infections if the dog does get one. Is neutering or spaying your dog really necessary? How about removing the dew claw?

My doberman Ace is showered with love by my wife, my kids, and me. All my pets are. As you can see in the pic he sleeps on the bed with me and the wife (he's taking over my side; I'll be using the doggy bed soon). My other 2 dogs, the pugs, one sleeps in my daughter's bed the other in my son's. I shell out $50 for a 35lb. bag of super premium dog food. They eat better than I do ( the wife just feeds me T.V. dinners and beer). What I want to say is that I treat all my pets like my own children.

I posted this pic hoping that another member who shares the same hobby like dogs and birds could appreciate, as well as with the rest of you. I really enjoy this forum and have made friends with some of you. Sadly there is a lot of animal cruelty going on all over the world. Those of you who think it is cruel to crop a dog's ears watch animal planet. You see dogs being neglected, starved, being beaten to the brink of death, laying in their own feces, and mostly puppies. That is cruelty and people who allow this to happen should be punished.

I bought Ace as an anniversary gift for the wife, as a loving gesture for what we both enjoy together. Altough he was purchased from a professional breeder and has show quality with champions in his pedigree its is highly unlikely I will ever show him. Cropping his ears will just make him a good looking stud. Lovers of the breed certainly know what I mean and can appreciate these dogs beauty.:evil:

 

Post edited by: Trustdace, at: 2008/07/27 16:29<br><br>Post edited by: Trustdace, at: 2008/07/27 16:33

[danmcq]

On Dobermans...... One of our passions for decades. We also rescue them. I do know this is a much debated practice, but people that have it done do have good reasons for doing so and have not made the decision lightly, in most cases.

 

Dewclaws - Removed for safety reasons not cosmetic. Dobermans use their legs and feet in playing and protection modes. The Dewclaws will get "ripped" off or damaged easily if not removed.

 

The Tails - Docked or banded at around 5 to 10 days old, depending on the length and girth.

 

A docked tail is an important characteristic of the Doberman because the tail represents a "body part" that can be easily and readily injured. Injury can happen by accident, such as knocking it against hard surfaces or getting it caught between surfaces (doors, windows, car doors) which can cause bruising, hematomas (pockets of blood), sloughing off of hair and tissue, gangrene and terrible fractures of the vertebra requiring major reparative surgery to treat and even save the tail.

 

The tail also serves as a handle that an attacker could grab and injure which could cause the dog to experience pain and trauma and cause him to abandon his job of protecting his owner. So docking is also a functional part of the Dobermans effectiveness as a family protector.

 

 

The Ears - Likewise, are the logical, functional addition to complete the Dobermans physical equipment to make him/her the elite family companion and protection dog that he was, even from the beginning.

 

There are two primary reasons that we desire cropped ears, and both have to do with FUNCTION. The first is that a neatly cropped ear is less of a "handle" for an attacker to hang on to. Since the Doberman has been bred to be a personal protector, a cropped ear gives the dog a decided advantage in a confrontation with a perpetrator.

 

The second has to do with sound "localization". An erect earred dog can localize the source of a sound to within a 5 degree cone, whereas a drop earred dog can only localize a sound source to within a 20 degree cone. Since Dobermans do SEARCH AND DETECTION as well as SEARCH AND RESCUE, cropped ears are a decided advantage.

 

The DOBERMAN "STANDARD"" asks for "ears, normally cropped". This simply implies that they are cropped in a normal manner. Many people choose to leave their Doberman puppy uncropped. These are mostly people who have a Doberman as a pet only and do not exhibit them in competition in the various AKC events. There is no disqualification for uncropped ears, and people can and do show Dobermans that are not cropped, in the US.

 

But, because the overwhelming majority of exhibitors show their Dobermans cropped, perhaps it just looks like there is no choice involved. It is a matter of personal preference as to crop or not crop their puppy and likewise to show a cropped or uncropped Doberman in AKC events.

 

If the ears are cropped they must be cut in a shapely manner when the Doberman is a youngster, usually between 9 to 12 weeks. The ear must be long enough to crop, with cartilage and muscles developed enough for a proper length assessment and structure to "Hold" the Ears erect once finished. However, the puppy should not be too old 5 Months or older, that the surgery becomes more difficult for the ears to successfully stand, if at all.

 

I presently have 2 rescued Dobermans that have uncropped ears and they are beautiful. Their tails are docked though.

 

Anytime I have purchased a puppy, they have Dewclaws removed, tail docked and Ears cropped. I can attest to the fact that it does not inflict any psychological impact at all, if it is done by a good vet, under Anesthesia and the owners take proper care of the Ears/Bandages while the process takes place.

[danmcq]

Trust Wrote "I posted this pic hoping that another member who shares the same hobby like dogs and birds could appreciate, as well as with the rest of you."

 

I love that photo and remember those "Puppy" Days with "Kodak" our first Doberman that still lives on,in our memories and on our Mantle in a beatiful wooden box, creamated, with his collar and photo above it.

 

They are a Loyal and Intelligent breed, like no other I have experienced. They will literally die for you.

 

Thank you for posting this photo, he is Beatiful!!!<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/07/27 16:53

[danmcq]

Kodak - Last Photo

 

<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/07/27 17:18

[lovemyGreys]

Trust I'm fully aware of the correct terminology for docking & cropping.At 42 i have had dogs in my life from the day i was born,my parents kept Great Danes & myself Boxers, so i think we are equal on those grounds.No-one is doubting the passion & love you have for your pets that clearly shows,but if you post a picture with your dogs ears bandaged then I'm afraid it is going to raise questions,im sure if the picture had been posted after the dogs ears had healed no-one would have said a word.As i said docking & cropping is always going to be a controversial topic regardless of breed or nationality.Everyone is entitled to their own opinions,as adults i hope we can respect that even if we agree to disagree.

[judygram]

lovemyGreys wrote:

but isn't clipping the wings not dissimilar to shortening a tail ?

 

Similar but not the same, one requires anesthesia as it would hurt without it and the other doesn't but I am not going to argue semantics here. Lets just say I have my opinion but I can respect other's opinions if they differ from mine and we all have our own ideas and opinions.

 

Dan, Kodak was a good looking dog and I am sorry for your loss but as far as having one as a family protector I don't need it, I have a 9mm that works very well if I need it.:whistle:

[judygram]

lovemyGreys wrote:

but isn't clipping the wings not dissimilar to shortening a tail ?

 

Similar but not the same, one requires anesthesia as it would hurt without it and the other doesn't but I am not going to argue semantics here. Lets just say I have my opinion but I can respect other's opinions if they differ from mine and we all have our own ideas and opinions.

 

Dan, Kodak was a good looking dog and I am sorry for your loss but as far as having one as a family protector I don't need it, I have a 9mm that works very well if I need it.:whistle:

[danmcq]

Judy - Unless you carry your 9mm with you, a Doberman is the next best thing. :-)

 

Kim was walking Kodak one night at about 10pm. he was 7 Months old and they regularly walked to the park about a 1/4 mile from our house.

 

While making their round about the park, Kodak stopped, turned around and started growling. He noticed a man walking up behind them, that Kim had not heard. She then turned around and the guy had stopped in his tracks about 20 feet from them. The guy puts his arms up and says "I just need to use the restroom Lady", Kim said "fine walk way around", gave Kodak the command to Sit and watched as he walked a wide path around them.

 

They are instinctively a "Protector" of their "Pack" and do not even need to be trained to do so.

 

It is indeed and owners choice to have these croppings and dockings and others should not look down on them for doing so.

 

I do not appreciate those that do not have the dewclawing, cropping and docking done and their Dobermans suffer for it as described in my lengthy post.

 

It does not "Hurt" the Doberman when done by a professional, regardless of what some people may think.

 

As you state, it is up to each individual to make an intelligent, well studied decision based on the breeds physical characteristics and their in-bred purpose.

 

I do not make those that feel compelled to continually clip their birds wings at their Parrots horrified experience and ordeal they must go through each 3 to 6 months, simply because I do not agree with the practice.

 

I expect the same respect to be displayed to others on this forum for other members that have a different opinion.

 

Their are pro's and con's to everything we do in life. We each must walk down our own path and make the best decisions we can based upon each individual circumstance, environment and purpose. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/07/27 18:47

[Trustdace]

Dan the wife and I think Kodak was definitely a beautiful doberman and a beloved member of the family. Thanks for your post we even learned something new. It is evident you are experienced with these wonderful animals and that you can appreciate the breed. This is one of the reasons I am enjoying being a part of this community; people like you. It is comforting to know that I can ask someone not only about the African grey parrot but dobermans as well. Thanks again for your post I really appreciate it:) ;) .

My apologies to anyone else if I made them feel discomfort because of the pic or my response. As I said before I know all you here are animal lovers as I am too. Its kind of hard to take a shot hinting animal cruelty when the well being of my pets is priority. Anyhow, I want to thank all of your replys and I will always respect everyone else's opinions. I only request discretion and consideration as adults that we are. I say this because although cropping the ears and tails of dogs will raise flags it is far from being a cruel or inhumane practice. It is legal and reknowned dog organizations approve of the practice. In conclusion I hope this puts an end to the issue and we can move on. Thanks!

[lovemyGreys]

judygram wrote:

lovemyGreys wrote:

but isn't clipping the wings not dissimilar to shortening a tail ?

 

Similar but not the same, one requires anesthesia as it would hurt without it and the other doesn't

 

 

I only wish that was true Judy,there is unfortunately many breeders out there who continue to practice tail docking without any anaesthetic at between three to five days of age due to the UK ban.I can not speak for other countries as im not aware of the rules or guidelines.

 

The docking of dogs' tails was banned in England from 6 April 2007 and in Wales from 28 March 2007 but with exemptions from the ban for certain working dogs, and for medical treatment. A total ban in Scotland took effect 30 April 2007

 

Edited to say i shall say no more on this thread & if anyone was offended by any of my comments then i apologise,that was not my intention & they were not personal attacks on any member.<br><br>Post edited by: lovemyGreys, at: 2008/07/27 19:44

[danmcq]

Trust - Ask anytime. Your right, thats why we are all here and enjoy each others company so much. :-)

 

We have owned many Dobermans over the years. The two rescues we presently have had for 4 years are Bentley and Chloe.

 

Here is bentley out trying to get the "Water Monster", our pool sweep. he is a "Red" Doberman:

 

 

Here is Chloe entertaining a visiting friends puppy. The only thing Chloe asks is for the puppy friend to leave her "Baby" alone. Chloe is a "Fawn" Doberman:

 

<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/07/27 20:27