Wing clipping??

[Japie]

Japie has been doing quite a bit of flying since discovering this new ability of his...

I do not want to clip his wing too early...

Or at all for that matter, as I feel that it is a great confidence booster for him to fly...

If I decide to clip, when should this be done??

If we dont clip... What advice is there out there??

{Nature-00020095}

[Guest]

I have a question to add to that (I hope you don't mind doing so in your topic? )

 

Why to wing clip? What 'good' does it serve for the bird?

 

(A sincere question)

 

You know, Japie?

[Japie]

Howzit fairY...

Dont mind at all, have the same question in mind. So many sites have pro's and cons on the subject.

I am hoping to get it 'straight from the horses mouth'.

I have seen the pics of the 'free flying CAG' on this site, but we have lots of pradators and this is a bit of a concern. (sounds strange, but I'm talking about eagles etc, we live in a rural setting)

Soooo many questions...........

Still, any ideas out there??

[Guest]

Wouldn't it be enough just to take care he doesn't 'escape' the house (if unclipped) ? Or is that too much of a risk?

[Qweevox]

Conventional wisdom is that a flying parrot can get into to much trouble. The bird might fly onto a hot cook top, into an open toilet, into a window, or escape and starve to death. However, another school of thought believes that parrots where made to fly. They believe it is cruel to clip a parrot’s wings and equate the practice to cutting a dog’s legs off to keep him from running.

 

Check these sites out.

 

http://theparrotuniversity.com/articles/flightedparrots.html

 

http://www.holisticbirds.com/hbn04/spring04/fitnessflight.htm

 

http://www.theotiseffect.com/

 

http://www.shynefoundation.org/

 

http://www.freeflight-usa.com/

 

http://www.shadeseclectus.com/video_page.htm

 

http://www.wendysparrots.com/html/o_t_i_s_b.htm

 

http://www.fosterparrots.com/parrot.html

 

I believe it would be ideal to allow parrots to fly.

[Guest]

Yes, that makes sense. It'll stay an individual decision then based on your own preference.

 

Japie: what do you prefer?

[Japie]

thank you so much Qweevox!

those sites have been enlightened reading...

we have been 'flying' almost all afternoon and japie seems to be getting more confident and responds well to us calling him and then flying to us...(all indoors though?)

I am still reluctant to let him fly outside for the time being. (friends of ours lost their bird to an owl while sitting on their porch)

I think this would be possible once we establish a trust relationship, and only time will allow this. It is sooooo amazing to get possitive input on the subject. I was dreading the day of having his wings clipped, but I feel so much more confident with all this new 'knowledge'...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

 

And yes fairY, I would love to raise my baby as a free flying family friend, no offence to those who choose to clip...

[shanlung]

Clipping of wings probably lead to loss of even more birds than knowing how to live with flighted birds.

 

People clip wings thinking that their bird will not fly away.

 

I honestly have nothing against the way people chose to keep their flock. No one should allow others to pressure them one way or other into any prescribed way. They and only they alone must decide.

 

But they should know as much as they can , not relying on the word of anyone alone, less of all, not from me.

 

But to think that clipping of wings will meant bird will be safe is so unsafe that that is frightening to me.

 

Trimming wings is about the worse measure to try to stop birds from flying away.

 

In fright and with wind gust, clipped birds will , and can fly away.

 

By trimming feathers, you lull yourself into a false state of mind that all is safe. Then when the clipped bird fly away in fright up a tree, the very lack of those clipped feathers meant that bird cannot fly down to you again.

 

Those who live with flighted birds will know that flying down is one of the hardest act EVEN WITH ALL FEATHERS INTACT. Successful flying down from high points require much more skills than flying up in fright.

 

If you think clipping prevent unwanted escapes then read extracts below

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

"

lost cockatiel 'Tory'

Lost cockatiel. Grey/yellowish pearl. Banded 03. ay come to 'Tory Bird'. Poor flier due to wing clipping. Email: dbrueck685@aol.com. White Lake, MI.

 

Our bird was lost on 11-23-03 in the area of St. Petersburg, Fl. In the region of OLD NORTHEAST. We are heart broken over it, any info that is given will be greatly helpful, wings are clipped and can't fly There is a reward out for the return of the bird , under one year old. Email: ywwalker@mypetshop.com. St Petersburg, FL.

 

Blue & Gold Macaw, Lost in Pembroke Pines, Fl Distinctive Forth black Line Under Eyes. Still Being Handfed. Wings Were Clipped First two Wing feathers Still On. Lost On Sept. 21. Reward If Found. Email: mattshaninfl@aol.com. Pembroke Pines, FL.

 

 

My daughter and I are so sad because my husband went outside on

Saturday Feb. 24th at 3 o'clock and he had our little Mustached Parakeet. It's a female, and she was scared about the noise that my husband did with the trashcan, so she flew away.

 

We try to find her, we gave to the people some flyers and we put some

of them on the mail boxes, we look around our home where we thought that she can stay but anything happened. Our Parakeet Vet told us that she can't fly long distances because she has just 3 feathers on each side, she is missing 4 on each side.

 

She was living inside the house in a warm weather and now outside is

cold, the Vet thinks that she can survive outside but I don't know what we

can do. We are missing her a lot. Her head is light gray, she has

salmon-colored half breast, some of her tail feathers are turquoise, and some yellow on her wing feathers. We are living in Gilbert, Arizona.

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

 

 

You should make your decision when you know what intend to do and the consequences .

 

Take a look into what Pamela Clark wrote. Read that and then you decide.

 

Feathers, Flight and Parrot Keeping

http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.org/Library/pam2.html

 

 

Shanlung

[Japie]

thanx for ur reply. I feel very sad today after taking Japie for the wing clip... I think the way I feel about it is nothing compared to how he feels, thus I am sure that it was the first and last time... cannot undo the days events, but needn't repeat it...

he is still a baby and hopefully we will learn together our mistakes.

[shanlung]

Japie,

 

Do not be so hard on yourself. His feathers will

grow back again.

 

It is paramount importance that you train and bond with him. A flighted bird must know and they will know certain rules of behaviour.

 

You will find the compromise yourself.

 

Do look into Tinkerbell Legacy. You can even say I wrote that for you. That you, and anyone else, can live with a flighted parrot in the house.

 

 

Shanlung

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9

[shanlung]

In this bundled series of letters, I was talking about what I termed as the gyrodrop. That was in the

context of the mechanics of bird flights as to how they fly downwards. You can gauge how much I

know about the difficulties of birds flying downwards.

Feel free to dispute with me on what I wrote, if you have some such experiences.

 

About the end of that article, I suggest the best flight angle for you to

induce your clipped or unclipped bird to fly back to you. You never know

one day you might need to use this.

 

An article from Part 1 Tinkerbell Early Period

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/w6gyrodrop.htm'>http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/w6gyrodrop.htm

 

 

Shanlung

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9

 

And if above works for you and you are grateful,

send a nice cheque to Gerald Durrells Wildlife Trust

 

http://www.durrellwildlife.org/

[Barbara]

Hi. We just picked up our 8 week old yesterday. We are still syringe feeding him. We have had his wings clipped already. I guess my idea is, what you've never had, you never miss. I lost a budgie 3 years ago. It was my mum's bird and talked with her voice (she died). I'll never get over losing him to the wind. Couldn't bear the same to happen again.

[Guest]

Welcome to the forum, Barbara

 

Did you lose your bird to the wind? How? Did he get swept away? (If it's too painful to talk about, I understand).

[Sticks_n_stones]

We clip Watson's wing -- only one. That allows him to glide if he needs to. Our reason for clipping is because of our ceiling fans. We live in a very hot climate and have the fans on 24-7 about six months of the year. I'm very concerned about the possibility of Watson being injured by the fans.

 

I agree that they don't miss what they haven't been able to do -- except maybe on a very deep, subconscious level.

[Barbara]

Hi. No, we brought him to Spain after mum died. I put him on balcony but had forgot to shut door. He was looking for me. Sat in a tree all day, as I read earlier in this forum, he tried to fly down to me but swooped and went up again. Next day he had gone. I couldn't go through that again. Broke my heart

[Guest]

Sticks: that sure is an original solution just clipping one wing. First time I hear of it

 

Barbara

[Sticks_n_stones]

FairY, it was our avian vet's suggestion.

[shanlung]

I guess my idea is, what you've never had, you never miss.

 

That is not correct.

 

The development of the bird neurons and later temperament appeared to be connected with flight. More and more, good breeders are allowing the chicks to fledge and fly for a few weeks prior to clipping, if ever done.

 

 

Perhaps you did not read

 

http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.org/Library/pam2.html

 

Frankly, I am shocked that that 'avian vet' recommended only one wing to be clipped. So shocked that I have nothing to say, unless that 'avian vet' is prepared to come public to this or any parrot forum to defend that bizarre practise.

 

 

Shanlung

[Guest]

Why is it so horrible to have only one wing clipped, Shanlung?

 

It's obvious you are a huge pro-non-clipping supporter, but isn't the discussion about what's better for the bird and some are not convinced, since there's no clear cut answer to that? (considering the gasstoves etc. they can get themselves hurt by)

[Qweevox]

shanlung wrote:

I guess my idea is, what you've never had, you never miss.

 

That is not correct.

 

The development of the bird neurons and later temperament appeared to be connected with flight. More and more, good breeders are allowing the chicks to fledge and fly for a few weeks prior to clipping, if ever done.

 

 

Perhaps you did not read

 

http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.org/Library/pam2.html

 

Frankly, I am shocked that that 'avian vet' recommended only one wing to be clipped. So shocked that I have nothing to say, unless that 'avian vet' is prepared to come public to this or any parrot forum to defend that bizarre practise.

 

 

Shanlung

 

I haven't heard the practice of clipping one wing for quite some time. Years ago, I think more people did it for appearance reasons...I didn’t know it is still recommended.

 

I also have read that young birds should be allowed to learn to fly, or at least use their wings. Again, I think “wing clipping” is somewhat controversial. There are people with strong feelings on both side of the debate. Personally, I am leaning towards flight; however, it is a personal choice.<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/03/14 07:25

[giggity57]

I've read that the bird should be accustomed to using their wings. If they fall, they should know to glide down instead of freefalling and potentially seriously injuring themselves. After a couple weeks of use, the first 5 primaries should be clipped, so they dont fly away. That is what I've heard from numerous experts. correct me if i am wrong.

[shanlung]

FairY,

 

I never advocate here or elsewhere that parrot must be clipped or unclipped. I have many more friends with clipped parrots than friends who liked them to be fully flighted.

 

Amonge those who kept birds flighted, I am about the most low key and actually a source of unhappiness to those with flighted parrots as I never spoke out against clipping.

 

I just show how life can be like with a flighted parrot that such possibility can be theirs if their circumstances allow that and if they are prepared to make the necessary changes to do that. That must remain the choice of the individual. No one must be pressured to take one or the other choice.

 

I spoke only against the misconception that clipping of wings meant the clipped parrot cannot fly away. My mistake! I should have not disturbed the tranquility here.

 

You are a real lady here and its a pleasure to know you.

 

 

Sticks&stones

 

If the wings are equally clipped, provided no spook and no wind gust and the parrot is laid back, the parrot can at least glide.

 

If the clip is deliberately made assymetrical, the parrot cannot even glide. The imbalance will make the parrot spin every time he/she tries to use the wings. Try throwing a paper aeroplane with one wing bigger than the other.

 

Even in just simple flapping to try to regain balance, that poor bird will find the balance gets even worse. But it is unlikely the parrot know its because of the wings had been deliberately cut that way. That way, a pathological fear is induced in his mind. You dare even flap your wings, you will go dizzy and sick. I just cannot see how we got the right to do that to the bird.

 

That a self styled 'avian vet' can stoop so low,the only bird that vet should treat be the Norwegian Blues.

 

Thats entirely my opinion or am I not allowed to have any opinion?

 

So those who relished in absolute control should feel free to do so.

 

I rather go smell the roses,to go back to other forums , watch TV than to come back here to continue this unworthy and extremely aggravating dispute.

 

Goodbye

 

 

Shanlung<br><br>Post edited by: shanlung, at: 2007/03/16 02:24

[carlylu]

I'd like to add that as far as safety goes, it is not just the false sense of security that is dangerous about clipped wings. In addition to a clipped bird being very ill equipped to fly down from a tree, a clipped bird is even less well equipped to fly up off the ground to avoid the most common dangers: dogs and cats. If a parrot escapes -- and many many clipped birds do -- the worst place for it to be is on the ground. That's often where a clipped grey ends up because they are very heavy bodied. I personally know of two people where I live who have had clipped parrots get loose and killed, one by a dog, and one by a cat. The one that got killed by the dog happened right in front of the owner. It spooked and flew onto the ground and the owner couldn't get to it before a dog did.

 

If parrots must be clipped, at least be sure that you train them for recall so there is a better chance to get them back to you quickly if they escape. And of course that goes for flighted birds as well.

 

Finally, a well-trained flighted bird is much less likely to be fearful and spook than a clipped, untrained bird. This is especially true for greys that were clipped before fledging. Having no means of escape -- from up high or from on the ground -- makes an animal feel very vulnerable. A grounded bird in the wild is a dead bird, and you can't undo millions of years of genetic hard-wiring in the brain.

 

my two cents!

raz & carly CAG

[carlylu]

p.s. you'll have to be patient with Shanlung. B) He probably knows more about having a flighted and trained Grey than anyone in the world. I think it gets frustrating when he hears the same myths over and over again. The one-sided clip is a very old practice that's rarely done anymore because it leaves the bird with so little control.

 

That said, Shanlung -- behave yourself! ;-)

 

raz

[xandriasphynx]

Shanlung, your life with Tinkerbell was amazing! I read your stories, and couldn't stop looking at all the pictures. Taiwan looks like a beautiful country as well.

I really don't like the thought of cutting of a birds feathers to ground it - to me it's tantamount to de-clawing a cat, or de-barking a dog. Birds fly, cats, scratch, dogs bark, etc. All these natural behaviours of animals have been altered by people to make peoples lives a bit easier, rather than the animals. However, I believe that with the wing clipping, most people are sincerely worried about their bird injuring itself so clip, before testing out the options first. When I lived in the city, my Conure never had his wings clipped. I could safely have him outside the house, he was so scared he wouldn't dream of flying off - clamped on to me like a vice. Even in the house, the furthest he ever flew was off the top of the cage onto me. Once in a while when he had the urge he'd fly aroung the house a few times, then back onto the cage or myself.

With my grey, he came to me clipped though the breeders policy is to clip their wings after they are already comfortable flying. When I am too far away from him for too long, he attempts to fly to me...and he's pretty good at it. Manages to land on me most of the time, or safely glides to the ground. I really was hoping to take him outside with me in the spring/summer to sit by the pool and go for walks...but I am out in the country, on a woodlot and as somebody previously wrote we have MANY predators. Scares me thinking he will fly onto one of our many trees and disappear, or get eaten

So, I've decided to let him make the decision. I will let his feathers grow back in and see how well he behaves and if I trust him enough not to fly off - or at best see if he trusts me enough to come back quickly when I call him. I'm hoping to have a mutual relationship of trust, so I can let him be a bird and not just a shoulder ornament, but if not, he'll still be much loved but sadly grounded.

Xandra