Recall & Free Flight Training

[danmcq]

Here are some great links to Recall training and Free Flight footage by the guys over at bird tricks.

 

http://www.birdtricks.com/AfricanGreyParrots/congo-free-flight.html

 

 

 

 

http://www.birdtricks.com/AfricanGreyParrots/congo-free-flight2.html

 

[dblhelix]

These are pretty amazing. Looks like the bird is loving it. I have been working with Kip on indoor recall for months now. She pretty much flys to me on command just about 100% of the time...maybe one day, with lots more research, I will try some outdoor recall. we'll see, but its insprirational. Thanks for sharing the links. B)

[macawlover]

Wow, that's awesome! I'm thinking about flight training Cheyenne, my b/g macaw. I don't know if I'd be able to trust Oscar, though. I'll probably give it a try, knowing me.

[Hannah_Rae]

This is definitely something I've been working on with Juj. I was doing it right and didn't even know it.

 

Thanks Dan

[carlylu]

Hi -- I have a grey, Carly, who has been flying outdoors for about a year now, and we live with three other macaws who have been freeflying for several years (Otis, Gizmo, and Annie.)

 

PLEASE do not try this without learning a lot about training methodology first, and having an experienced trainer to guide you one-on-one. These videos are a very dangerous example to follow. In my opinion they proceed far too rapidly into new situations, rely far too much on the "baby bond" (which is temporary at best), and advocate getting pre-weaned babies which is dangerous for anyone inexperienced in hand-feeding and weaning.

 

Here's a link to more info on flight training and general operant conditioning methods:

 

http://likambo.com/flyblog/?page_id=30

 

There is also an article about Carly's flight training in the Spring 2008 issue of Barbara Heidenreich's Good Bird magazine http://www.goodbirdinc.com. It's a great source for learning about positive reinforcement training in general.

 

These are not my personal ideas, but methods that have been developed by professionals over many decades. They are not "secret," and if anyone uses the words "easy" or "fast" in their advertising, beware. I heard a webcast of Chet Womach recently and I was astonished at the lack of depth of knowledge, as well as misinformation. Several leading trainers in the country expressed to me the same concerns. One bird on this list has already been lost as a result of YouTube videos. Freeflight is not something to be undertaken lightly, no matter how easy videos may make it look.

 

Best wishes.

Raz & Carly<br><br>Post edited by: carlylu, at: 2008/05/24 00:47

[shanlung]

Raz is right.

 

There is nothing easy or fast in flight training. Especially so for CAGs.

 

CAGs spook very very badly. And when they spook, everything you trained them will be forgotten in those moments.

 

Freeflight must never be undertaken lightly. You do not even know what nightmares are until you lost your CAG. I have been there. It is way way beyond your worse imagination.

 

Take care.

 

Read Tinkerbell Legacy - Part 2 in Tinkerbell webpage

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[carlylu]

Hi Shanlung!

 

I can't say enough about the value of patience and practice, practice, practice. It even helps lessen the frequency and severity of spooks, and how they respond when they do. I think more than anything else, what has made the biggest impression on me from the training we did was how much composure she shows now, both in not spooking at many things, and in her response to fly right back when she does.

 

You know, I really think there would have been no problem when Tinkerbell spooked back in December if she'd had more experience flying in, around, and down from tall trees. That's not something you want to do on a harness of course. But I bet if she was flying without one and was used to those environments, she would be just fine, at least when you were there working with her every day. You were so diligent with her training. So glad she is back home and doing fine!

 

 

raz

[lovemyGreys]

Shanlung & Raz thank you both very much for your input on the recall & free flight training.I must admit with four greys it's something i have never considered doing as the potential danger of loosing one of my greys scares the hell out of me.It is something one should fully research & seriously consider before undertaking.

[shanlung]

lovemygreys,

 

Believe me, you have no idea how it felt to lose your grey. I have been through that first hand, twice. But with Tink back, tried as I might, I could not conjure again the depth of anguish and pain during those times when she was not back.

 

THAT NIGHTMARE WAS SO HORRENDOUS THEN THAT ONLY A SHADOW OF THAT FEELING CAN EVER BE RECALLED. AND DURING THAT TIME, YOU FEEL LIKE DYING IS THE LEAST OF YOUR MISERY.

 

Carly,

 

My relationship with Tink is different now. She is not with me all the time and I get back about 1 month in the year.

 

The places that we go to are out of this world. The beauty meant the terrain is also extremely rugged. With the harness, I could take her anywhere. And when we went out, its often from morning to late in the afternoon.

 

Can you take your Carly for day long hikes in your Sierra mountains or Yellowstone park? And to continue to do that in new different places all the time?

 

Do understand the environment and lifestyle are very different for the two of us. All greys are not the same. I know Tink spook very easily, maybe a lot more than yours.

 

Also, Tink is no longer mine. She is Mr Yu, who kindly allowed me to take her out. If I take her out without harness in safe areas, that act might encourage Mr Yu to do the same. He just do not have the knowledge and 'feeling' to do that. I must act the example that I know he can follow safely.

 

I have deep deep respect for Murphy and his army of assistants. They strike at time least expected.

 

I prefer to plan for the worse scenarios, and not what I, or others, hope for.

[carlylu]

Shanlung --

 

Yes, I respect that you were taking Tink to very different places. But I really I wouldn't have any hesitation taking Carly to the mountains, other than concerns about raptors (we have Coopers Hawks here that like wooded areas). We have been looking for some places nearby that are different terrain than the various beaches we frequent. I've seen her in many different spook situations and some scary chases (a few dozen ravens last time) and I've been impressed with how she reacts. She did some of her first big outdoor flights last year in a mountainous area of Wyoming with gorgeous green hillsides and steep valley dropoffs.

 

That said, she's the only grey I've ever had, and I can't speak for others' experiences. Certainly the spook factor and how they react is something that people should take VERY seriously if they are considering outdoor flying.

 

I wasn't in any way saying you should do this with Tinkerbell (especially now that you only see her periodically). I was just speculating that she may be more capable than you give her credit for. I realize she did have a fly-off when you were first starting, and I can totally understand you having no interest in either of you having to go through that again.

 

BTW, for those of you who don't know the history, Tinkerbell was the original inspiration for me and Carly. Loving the outdoors as I do, seeing Tinkerbell in the hills of Taiwan I just had to find a way to let Carly experience those things too. :-)

 

This does NOT mean that you can't enrich your Grey's life tremendously in other ways. Simply going on walks with your bird on a harness is something I can highly recommend; we did that a lot before her feathers grew back in, and I still use it when we're on outings around town. Just remember the Shanlung Principle: always ATTACH the leash to YOU with something secure like a caribiner! Do not just hold the end of the leash. Something that startles your bird could easily startle you too. As an example of how automatic that is for me when we leave the house in the morning, I have sometimes decided to leave her at home but when I get to my car I discover I have her leash caribinered to my belt anyway. It should become that automatic!

 

There are some good harness training articles out there by the way, such as this one by Barbara Heidenreich:

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/2005/features/harness/harness.htm

If you're interested in using one be sure to start off right with this kind of training so it's not a battle to put it on every time.

 

raz

[danmcq]

Shanlung and Carly - Thank you both so much for the depth and wealth of information you have both provided and the great links.

 

Undertaking free-flight is certainly something most should not even think about undertaking, unless they have an experienced professional to oversee, guide and direct the correct steps and processes to ensure safety of both the Bird and the owner.

 

Harness is the only way I will ever take my Parrots outside. As most, I do not have the time, facilities or professionals to ever consider this.

 

You are right in regards the folks over at birdtricks. They are beginners, giving out very dangerous and unprofessional advice. They seem to be making a profit off of begginers, as they themselves are learning at many poeples and others Parrot at the owners expense.

 

Again, thanks for all the Great information. :-)

[Nychsa]

I don't know, I've felt no compelling need to experiment with free flight. I'm like you Dan, I harness Bella if I take her outside and she really has no interest in leaving my shoulder when we do go out.

 

I know initially it may sound cruel that I have no desire to experiment with free flight with Bella, but I think when I think of the joys of flying, I'm viewing the experience from a human perspective and not from a prey animal. The truth of the matter is prey animals live in constant terror and readiness to make a run for their lives (or in this case a flight for their lives). Living as prey is one of the most stressful forms of existence, something we, as humans, can't relate to being at the top of the food chain.

 

So, when I see Bella happily playing in her safe domain, I'm not sure I would think she is missing anything. I am letting her flight wings grow out after this molt, but that is for indoor flight. She likes to follow me around the house and she usually has to glide to the floor right now and the run after me. My conure is flighted now and when he wants to follow me, he simply flies after me. So, I can appreciate that. But I don't think taking them outside would do anything for them.

 

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong! But it just doesn't seem to me like we're missing anything.

 

Cheers!

Terri

[shanlung]

Terri,

 

Listen to your heart.

 

There is absolutely no need for you to try free flight.

Allowing Bella and other of your birds to fly indoor is already superb of you and wonderful for them.

[Tari]

I think free flight is wonderful to see but I would never be able to do it. My heart would stop beating and I am to much of a chicken anyways.

[Nychsa]

shanlung wrote:

Terri,

 

Listen to your heart.

 

There is absolutely no need for you to try free flight.

Allowing Bella and other of your birds to fly indoor is already superb of you and wonderful for them.

 

Shanlung, that's what I think I'll do. The house is large with 9 foot high ceilings and Bella and Jiggy have favorite places they like to hang out in.

 

Their cages are their favorite spots with all their toys and food, but they like to sit on the back of the couch, on the towel rack in the bathroom, in the palm tree in the bathroom and their playstands in different rooms.

 

I know they feel safe and confident because neither one of them thinks anything of trying to nip my greyhounds on the nose!

 

I've had a keen interest in the behavior of predators, in particular wolves, and in researching that entire enviornment one is confronted with the environment of the prey animals as well, and that is really a stressful existence.

 

I was thinking about it the other day again while watching humming birds. At first they seemed so happy and delightful but then I realized only one of them was feeding and that was because he was terrorizing all the others! Thank goodness they are so small because they are down right vicious!!!

 

So, I think we as humans over romantisize nature some times. The truth of the matter is, in nature, the big fish eat the little fish amd the cycle of life and death is very viceral. And in addition to that - one day an animal may get lucky and find food and then other days, there may be nothing on the table. Bella can't even wait for me to peal an orange leave alone have to go find something to eat! :laugh: