Children and Parrots

[Tari]

Saw anouther one of those "Baby on the way, Parrot has to go." Rehomes.

I don't have kids but for some reason this always makes me mad. You don't get rid of the other child when a baby comes so why get rid of the parrot when the baby comes.

I have looked and looked for info on babies and parrots and there is just not anything on the net.

I did find this about Children and Parrot and I think it would pretty much work with babies too.

http://www.companionparrot.com/Parrots%20and%20Children.htm

Would be nice if someone wrote something on Babies and Parrots though.

[nevjoe]

Good site Tari. I'm enjoying it. Good info, Thanks

 

Joe

 

Karma for you

[judygram]

It doesn't make much sense does it Tari, that people think that because they have a baby it means the bird has to go, they are just looking for an excuse to get rid of the bird. They probably figure they won't have time to spend with the bird once a baby comes home but if you love them both you can find time for both. You would never get rid of the first child just because you have a second baby.

 

I did enjoy reading the link your provided and thanks for sharing it with us.

[Ronda477]

Angie that was a great site! I have two children ages 12 & soon to be 9. We have also been throwing the idea around of maybe a third child?? But I don't understand why parents would get rid of their beloved birdy family! It does make me mad, cause if you teach your child right from the beginning they can help in soo many ways! And not to mention that all takes time! And a whole lot of patience! It does upset me as well that people would just give a bird away that they have spent soo much time with. Well hopefully they have. Their are some out there that just think it's pretty and get one and don't do their homework to see how much noise they make, if it will wake up the baby or not. And honestly you make noise when a baby is sleeping, there are a bunch of parents that tip toe around lol, but if the baby gets used to the regular every day noises they will be much better sleepers. But back to our birds. I just don't agree. I think if you put in the time, you can have one big happy family! But just my opinion!

[siobha9]

Great link Tari. Thank you! I too have young children and they love the birds. I am very familiar with the bird on the kids head and the child saying "Mam, come get the bird".

 

Siobhan

[greenwinged]

It dosen't make sence to me either! As of right now in my family we have two different type's of macaw a blue front and a african grey plus 4 childen under the age of 7 and the only problem we have is the blue front pertenting to cry like the baby. oh, the fun we have:P

[BMustee]

I don't have kids, and I'm not sold on having them as of now ether, but I would NEVER give up my baby Elmo or my finches because I was "expecting." If you look on Craigslist in the pets section there is animal after animal being given up due to a "baby on the way". Some of these animals are under a year old, so I just think to myself "how are you about to give birth and NEED to rehome a 4 month old puppy..."

 

My animals are my life, and nothing could ever come between us.

[busere]

Before my wife and I started the adoption process, I would have agreed with you. When we started doing weekend visits, and J (The 9 year old little boy we're adopting) was introduced to our house, two of our birds accepted J with love after a couple of days...one has even attached herself to him. But Piper, our Quaker Parrot, has had the exact opposite reaction, and goes out of his way to go after J. This is a problem. We've been trying to work with Piper and J on the issue by trying "Birdie Rescues,” which works as long as my wife is not around. J took a couple very painful bites from Piper last weekend, and now he’s terrified of Piper. There are some things in life that are more important, and my child should not have to be afraid of ANYTHING in our home. As much as we love Piper (Quaker Parrot), our child comes first. Now, I know that saying this is going to get me cursed on this board…so be it. We have tried every trick and training method in the book now, but nothing is working…rehoming has become one of the only options left. Bringing a bird into a home that has children is one thing, bringing children into a home that already has birds (that are set in their ways) is another. Now, if you’re going to slam me for disagreeing with you and considering rehoming Piper…go ahead, beat away…I will still believe that children are more important then birds.

[judygram]

I am not going to slam you for your opinion, although some might, but when it comes right down to it, if it comes to either one or the other has to go then of course we are going to choose a human child over a pet any day. But I wouldn't do that until every option had been exhausted.

 

Everyone has to make this decision for themselves if it comes to that.

[M2MM]

Personally, I would not have my birds if my kids were both still at home. We have an asthmatic son (who has long since moved out) which prevented us from having any birds. Our younger son is still at home, but he's got his own life and no health issue (or fear issues). So, you could say that I'm another one that puts my children (or any child) first if they are going to live in my household. Thankfully, I'm not in busere's position; however, if I were in their shoes, I too would try everything possible first, and then if there still was a serious problem (a child who is terrified of an aggressive bird) I would be searching for a new home for the bird. Hopefully, someone I knew personally, so I could continue to keep in touch and visit with the bird.

 

We don't live a perfect world, and sometimes have to make hard choices. <br><br>Post edited by: M2MM, at: 2008/07/02 18:24

[Tari]

So sorry it has come to this for you. But I commend you for tring everything possible and not just giving up the birds cause you got a child.

 

There are many people out there that do not even try. The second they know they are expecting they start thinking about getting rid of the pets.

 

No need to feel bad as long as you have made every effort to make it work for the bird and your new son.

[lovemyGreys]

No one is going to beat away at you, Well i hope they dont

We are all faced with tough decisions at some point in our lives & you have to do what is correct for you at that given time,either rightly or wrongly.

[busere]

As for infants...In the Navy we learn to do, what we call, Risk Assessment. We look at the risk of entering into a situation (e.g. having an infant and a medium to large parrot in the same house). The question we would have to ask is, “Is the gain worth the risk?” (e.g. Is the gain of having “Boo-Boo the Macaw” in our lives worth the possibility of injury to our infant?) When we start to think about the risk vs. the gain, you have to ask yourself, which is worse, the transitional stress of rehoming Boo-Boo or the transitional stress of rehoming Boo-Boo after he severally bit your infant or toddler? People have different levels of tolerance when it comes to risk. What’s acceptable risk to some, is not acceptable to others.

 

These people are not at fault for rehoming their bird because of a coming child. They’re just not willing to take the risk of danger to their child…how is that wrong?

[siobha9]

I agree there are different ways of looking at risk. But there are also different ways of handling risk. In my opinion, "Boo-Boo the macaw" certainly should never be in a situation where he could harm an infant. But that doesnt mean he has to be rehomed! I have dogs. I ensure my dogs and my birds are never alone together. I cant understand why a parent can't ensure the parrot and their baby are never alone together. Keeping them apart would definitely minimise the risk of having an infant and "Boo-Boo" in the same house.

 

I love my children but I also love my parrots and I couldn't ever see a situation where I would rehome my birds unless I had tried EVERYTHING proposed to me before hand.

 

Having said all that your personal situation is completely different;) . In your case it is not about risk. It is about fear. Your child was not used to birds, had not been raised with them and understandably, having been bitten, is now afraid of one of them. In that situation I think you have no alternative but to rehome Piper. You are not one of those people who rehomed your bird without giving the situation a chance. You gave it a chance and your son was hurt. No question, poor little Piper needs to go

[Talon]

I have 4 children, and 3 birds. Talon who used to like my 13 year old, has now decided it is more fun to try and dive bomb him when she is flying around the house, and watch him duck! :evil: Because he doesn't listen to his mother :whistle: and continued the behavior....you guessed it, she does it most times she sees him. :pinch:

I would NEVER get rid of her because she goes after him, we just adjust things here, and NEVER leave her out of her cage if I or Talonsis is not here. Talon is a member of our family too, and my son knows she will try to annoy him, so he avoids contact with her.

We all have to make adjustments to get along in this family, just like some families may have 2 kids that don't get along. You don't get rid of one of them because one may be scared of an older sibling.

 

Just my opinion for what it's worth. I understand you have to do what you can for your family.

[Tari]

Talon and siobha9 both have valid points. Try everything you can first don't just assume cause your going to have a baby the parrots or any pets have to go. At least try to make it work.

 

Children are for life but so are our pets and I think it teaches a great lesson to our children about commitment when we go the extra mile to keep the ones we made the day we bring our pets home.

[spookyhurst]

busere wrote:

As for infants...In the Navy we learn to do, what we call, Risk Assessment. We look at the risk of entering into a situation (e.g. having an infant and a medium to large parrot in the same house). The question we would have to ask is, “Is the gain worth the risk?” (e.g. Is the gain of having “Boo-Boo the Macaw” in our lives worth the possibility of injury to our infant?) When we start to think about the risk vs. the gain, you have to ask yourself, which is worse, the transitional stress of rehoming Boo-Boo or the transitional stress of rehoming Boo-Boo after he severally bit your infant or toddler? People have different levels of tolerance when it comes to risk. What’s acceptable risk to some, is not acceptable to others.

 

These people are not at fault for rehoming their bird because of a coming child. They’re just not willing to take the risk of danger to their child…how is that wrong?

 

My problem with this is, why was "Boo-Boo the Macaw" purchased in the first place? When you buy/adopt a bird (or any other animal), you should think about the fact that this bird is going to be in your life for a very long time. If you plan on having children someday, and fear that a macaw and infant won't mix, then why are you buying one? I don't think it's acceptable to take on the responsibility of an animal with the attitude of, "I'll enjoy him/her until it's no longer convenient, and then I'll just rehome them." People need to think long term. If their life is not stable (they move a lot, their work hours are erratic, etc.), they shouldn't get a pet that may or may not fit into their changing lifestyles.

[Toni]

I have Alcazar in a daycare w/ me.The older children know the boundries. The babies dont.It doesnt seem to bother him when the babies go to his cage.He just looks down at them. I think because he is higher up he doesnt mind but when it coms to the older kids that are eye to eye level his feathers ruffle and the children even know at that point not to go near him.Still the children love him they enjoy his sounds of dog, cat except during video day there is alot of....."Be Quiet Alcazar, Miss Toni can you cover him up?" LOL....As for if a child ends up w/ alergies in my case it would definently be the child to go. I can make that choice its not my child. Yes Alcazar did nip a child once and that child never put his finger in again and the other children saw and they know not too and they know not to place a chair near him because he will grab there hair and pull. If I felt real danger coming on then my choise will be to get a baby gate for his area. What the heck is one more baby gate.

[kittykittykitty]

Hard choices. This is an example of "nothing is black and white, only shades of grey." kittykittykitty

[busere]

Spookyhurst, you are exactly right...why was BooBoo Bought in the first place. However, we can’t always see the future. We don’t know all the variables that will come to pass. We can try to control them as much as possible, but sometimes (most of the time) Murphy’s Law strikes. And when a child comes along, choices have to be made…even though they’re hard. And to say “Forget you, I’m keeping my bird!” are we really doing that for the bird…or are we doing that for ourselves? When the infant comes along, less attention can be given to the bird…babies take time…and so do birds. The perpetual two-year-old parrot can get very jealous of baby…and get very aggressive when they’re getting way less attention from their favorite person. Case and point…”Piper” our Quaker Parrot, that is in all out attack mode when J, the little boy we are adopting is around. The major difference…J can defend himself, an infant can’t.

[Tycos_mom]

I agree that pets should not be throw away Items you must approuch getting pet with a mature and responsible attitude and if you are not stable and do not know if you will be able to keep the animal for all of its life then you should not get it in the first place. I know that parrots can out live us so you also must keep that in mind when you get one and make arrangements for that parrot when you pass on I have five kids and two parrots that will out live me the others there is a good chance they will pass before me but Two of my daughters love birds and will gladly take them when I pass and my birds know them and love them so I have no worrys that the birds will be fine.

 

Pat<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2008/07/22 23:22

[TinyTimneh]

well, i feel a wee bit odd writing because i have no children, am young, and do not plsn on having kids now, or anytime really. I'm not cut out for kids. but i just feel i have to throw my two cents in.

i agree with those of you who say it's ridiculous how quickly people sell their pets when they're about to have children (unless of course, the animal has in the past had agression issues, in which case I support it). that said, busere, i am very sorry for you that it has come to this.

regarding the 'booboo rhe macaw scenario' if the bird is in a position where it can access an infant and harm it seriously, something is very, very wrong. who in their right mind would have a flighted macaw out around a baby? if the bird is clipped, in its cage or on a playstand some distance from the infant all should be fine. you would have to be a very foolish parent IMHO to stand/sit so close to a macaw that it could deliver a bite while holding your baby.

[TinyTimneh]

oh also, busere, btw: although i do not have kids of my own, i do have a similar scenario to yours. my half-brother is now three and my grey despises him, reacting much the same way as your quaker does.

however, if your quaker is clipped and in his cage or on a playstand located away from your son there shouldn't be a problem really, aside from your son's fear, but if your son has been bitten sounds like the bird has had the opportunity to bite him... i don't want to risk offending you but, if the bird was acting so aggressively why were the two close enough that your son could be bitten? also, maybe you could get your son to feed the quaker some sort of long-range treat (like a strip of carrot or sprig of millet) through the bars so the quaker can associate him with good things and your son can begin to learn that maybe the bird isn't so bad because although he is holding the food, his fingers are located far away from the beak and he is in no danger of a bite.

and if that fails, i agree you are doing the right thing. obviously both of them living under the same roof is stress and unhappiness for all and of course, birds get over and move on from being rehomed, children don't.

i think the only way some people might blast you on this forum is if the scenario was you adopted your son and simultaneously got rid of all your birds without them ever having shown agression. and that isn't the case at all.

[busere]

Thought I'd add a picture of our 9 year old son and our 3 month old Blue Front Amazon (BFA), Cosmo...and buy the way...Cosmo chose our son. The funny thing is, our son isn't afraid of any of the other birds in our house, to include Rio our Red Lored Amazon (RLA); Lucky, our Indian Ringneck (Who can get very aggressive) and the above mentioned. But for some reason, he was afraid of Piper.

 

Rodney <br><br>Post edited by: busere, at: 2008/08/05 18:45

[Big_Squishy]

Well I never though ORM (Operational Risk management) would show up in this forum at least not from the way I have to teach my students( Navy ). Since it has been brought to the table lets get the just of it and then see where the holes are in the boat shall we.

 

How ORM Works

ORM is a closed loop process of identifying and controlling hazards. It follows a 5-step sequence, is applied on one of three levels depending on the situation, and is guided by 4 principles.

 

Purpose of ORM

The purpose of ORM is to minimize risks to acceptable levels, proportional to mission accomplishment.

Goal Of ORM

The goal of ORM is to manage risk so the mission can be accomplished with the minimum amount of loss.

Benefits Of ORM

Applying the ORM process will reduce mishaps, lower injury and property damage costs, provide for more effective use of resources, improve training realism and effectiveness, and improve readiness.

 

Fill in as it applies to every day life.

 

5 Steps of Performing ORM

 

5 Step Process

Memory Acronym- I AM IS

 

1.Identify Hazards

2.Assess Hazards

3.Make Risk Decisions

4.Implement Controls

5.Supervise

 

Ok now I can see "IF" there is a situation that would force you to have to rehome a bird you would choose that over a human child, that is a no brainer. However, bringing up ORM really does not plug the holes in your boat.

 

Note I am not bashing you, "everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinions" <------- that, by the way was a joke, it is ok to laugh.

 

Ok hole number one Identify the risk.

Ok what are the risk "if" infant/toddler interaction with bird?

 

Well that all depends what the situation is. Do you have a cage? Do you allow your bird and child to be alone together. Do you have a way to seperate them and still not exclued either of them? The list goes on because "If" is the biggest word in the dictionary.

 

"If" my infant were to crawl over to the elecrical socket. Or "if" my infant were able to get it's tiny fingers to remove the safety plug form the electrical socket. "If" I go out side I could get hit by a bus.

 

I think many people think about hazards but they do not look at the level of probability and severity. If you have the forsight to think ahead about this problem then you should be able to continue the ORM process all the way.

 

Next step after identify hazards is to assess the hazards. Here is where we take those things, bird biting baby, baby biting bird and decide how likley it is , how serious could it be, is it worth it to remove one family member for the sake of another, what might the child loose from not having this kind of pet in the home, will the child benifit from not having pets that could possibly harm them until they are old enough to be on their own? So many things can come up.

 

So now the risk decisions, lock the cage, supervise the child at all times, remove all electrical sockets from the home that the child might ever be able to get close to. Restrict when bird is free to roam or if it is free to roam. I am sure the list could grow beyond the scope of this forum but I think the idea is there.

 

Now that we have decided on what controls we want to put in place, implement them, set them into motion.

 

Last but not least SUPERVISE and revise as needed which might mean you have to start at step #1. but it will be tailored to the adjustment you require.

 

I understand where you are comming from and am not saying that you have not made every attempt at ORMing the situation. But most people tend to challenge the decision first and then understand the reason later. Too many people buy pets because they are cool at the time or get the attention of the girls at the beach etc... Only to pawn them off the first time a significant problem/challenge arises. I hope for the people that git rid of their birds for the safey of their children they never get that dog, kitten, pony,snake, hampster, rat, or fish for their child, because "What IF" might just happen anyways.

 

 

Very Respectfully,

 

JC<br><br>Post edited by: Big_Squishy, at: 2008/08/27 15:15