I am very worried

[raehamilton]

Hello everyone,

 

The last time I posted I wrote about Angie plucking. I mentioned to a breeder that Angie has been plucking since July and the breeder told me that it sounds as though Angie is very unhappy. Unhappy? I don't know where I went wrong. I bought her a big cage and many toys. I give her fresh water everyday. Her cage is in the livingroom and we are always in the living room. She whistles the Andry Griffith song in it's entirety. I bought Aloe Vera Juice and she didn't like the spray. She never used to bite and when I sprayed her she got so mad that she started biting. She doesn't mind taking a shower so I figured if I spray her while she is in the shower it wouldn't be so hard on her. I finally decided to stop spraying her because of the biting. She stopped biting us when we stopped the spraying. I have a feeling that her diet has something to do with the plucking. The breeder that sold her to me gave me a seed mix with pellet diet. I think the seeds are what is making her pluck. Unfortunately, I have been very ill for the last 5 months and I can't afford to buy her Harrison's or any other type of diet. I feed her veggies, fruits and other table food but she loves those seeds and won't give them up. If you saw a picture of how she now looks you would cry. I cry to. I love her so much it hurts. I thought that AG's plucked when they are neglected but she couldn't have found a more loving home. I am sorry I keep going on about this. I am beginning to wonder if I should give her away.

[Nychsa]

Hi, you poor thing - it sounds like both of you are suffering terribly. Have you had an opportunity to consult with an avian vet? I think that's what I'd do, particularly if you're doing all the right and good things that seem to be common remedies for plucking.

 

I don't really have a lot of experience with greys, but in part of the literature and educational videos I've been watching about parrot care, I did come across one that showed birds that were plucking very, very severely. They were rehabilitated by given foraging opportunities. I was heart broken by the pictures of these poor birds, but it also showed how these birds stopped plucking themselves when they had an opportunity to do what is natural to them, namely to forage.

 

I have no idea if that would help for your bird - either way, if it were me, I think I'd consult a certified avian vet. I imagine skin infections could occur from so much trauma to the skin.

 

Good luck, and I hope you stay in touch here. Don't be alone with this kind of pain.

 

Best to you

Terri

[KatB]

Hello, raehamilton--

I'm so sorry to hear about Angie's plucking. Have you run across the following thread yet?

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/african-grey/53405-grey-owner-that-is-lost.html#53620

 

There's lots of advice from members about ways to handle severe plucking. I'm a great believer in looking to the diet, as well. Have you tried the flax seed oil and red palm oil (or crushed walnuts) combination?

[Christina]

Did she start plucking when you got sick? AG's are very sensitive to our moods and health. I'm sure if you are sick and thereby perhaps stressed over financial matters as well as health matters, could Angie be picking up your stress level? Just a thought as it sounds like you have everything else pretty much covered for her...I think its a general statement that they are unhappy when they begin plucking, when mostly there are underlying reasons. What do you think?

[raehamilton]

I've gone to every health store in 3 cities and no one has flax seed oil or red palm oil. All stores offered to special order for me but it's expensive. I will keep trying to find it.

[judygram]

Rae I am so sorry to hear of Angie's plucking and that you yourself have been sick, I hope you are on the road to recovery now.

 

Could this plucking have had anything to do with your illness since the time frame matches, she started about the time you were first sick? Has she suffered any loss of attention because of it? I don't want to sound like I blame you but her reaction could be related to your situation, they pick up on our emotions.

 

She really needs to be weaned off of a high seed diet to one with more veggies and to be on some kind of pellets, it would not have to be Harrisons.

 

Please don't give Angie up, I know you love her and even if she plucked every feather off her body she is still the same bird inside that you bought and it will only make for more problems for Angie to be sent off to a new home with new owners. She needs your love and attention now and to find out what is causing her to pluck for I know that you will figure it out and remedy it and she will be her beautiful self again. Hang in there Rae, you have our support all you have to do is ask.

 

BTW, Nychsa ideas of foraging toys makes good sense, it gives them something to do and it just might help Angie to stop plucking, its worth a try.

[raehamilton]

Christina,

 

She had already started plucking very bad before I got sick. I haven't had financial problems until the last 3 weeks. After being sick for so long the money in reserve ran out. I noticed she started plucking after a visit to her old breeder. I had to go out of town one day and left her with the breeder for a week. When I got back to pick her up she had started plucking her neck and got worse. The breeder's husband was playing with her very rough. He had her standing on a pencil and then would make her balance on it while he was flipping it in circles. He also grabbed her like a ball and slide her on the linoleum floor. His wife was very upset that he did that and told me about it. It didn't help that on the same visit her wings were cut too short and she also clipped one of her nails too short and made it bleed. You can be sure I never took Angie there again.<br><br>Post edited by: raehamilton, at: 2008/01/21 16:43

[raehamilton]

Judygram,

 

I don't plan to give her up. My feeling is that I am a bad mama to her and she would probably be better off with a better parent. I just want her to be happy. I am going to create some forage for her with the dixie cups. I've been reading all the post on plucking for the past 2 hours. I saw the picture of Max and felt so bad. Angie hasn't plucked her red feather and I hope she doesn't. Thank you so much for all the advise.

[KatB]

Walmart has flax-seed oil capsules in the vitamin section. They look like Vitamin E capsules and are a good source of omega-3. I just poke a hole in them and squeeze the oil onto Oliver's breakfast, about a half-capsule a day. The red palm oil is a source of omega-6. If you can't find red palm oil, you might try substituting ground walnuts. Or, I understand safflower oil is also rich in Omega 6. I don't know what the consensus is on feeding safflower oil to the greys, though. Maybe a more knowledgeable member will shed some light.

[judygram]

You should turn those breeders in Rae, I am appalled that a breeder would do such a thing, and they had no right to clip the wings and nails unless you asked them to. Its hearing stuff like this that makes me sick.

 

This may very well be the root of the problem, she started plucking when she went to stay with the breeder and with the treatment she received she started with the plucking and has continued it for it is a hard habit to break.

 

Just ignore the plucking, don't give any reaction to it that only makes it more likely for it to continue. Give her love and attention and with a proper diet she may stop the plucking in time. Be patient with her and keep us updated on her.

[dblhelix]

Rae, lots of good ideas and advice here. I too am sorry to hear of your challenges and hope that Angie improves. I dont have much to add, its going to be a process, don't give up. You are not a bad "parront".

 

Your description of the shocking events at the old breeder, coupled with a severe wing clip and nail trim along with your illness/stress are probably all related to Angie's state. Both of you hang in there, continue to work towards improvemet, but dont make drastic changes to diet, environment etc in attempt to remedy. Make a plan and go about it but remember to introduce anything new in a manner to give Angie time to adjust. Otherwise the attempts to resolve could be undermined.

 

I hope and believe you will both get through this.

[Tari]

Birds don't always pluck cause they are unhappy. I have one that plucks just cause it can.

It more likely has nothing to do with you. Even bad experinces as a chick can make a bird pluck when they get older. Being force weaned. Illnesses. Ect.... And then once they pluck for a while its habit and has very little to do with you.

Take your bird to an avain vet and have a full work up. As soon as possible before its a habit. Use a credit card go to the pawn shop but get the bird to the vet.

So until you get to the vet stop beating yourself up over it. Chances are very high it has nothing to do with you.

[Nychsa]

raehamilton wrote:

Judygram,

 

I don't plan to give her up. My feeling is that I am a bad mama to her and she would probably be better off with a better parent. I just want her to be happy. I am going to create some forage for her with the dixie cups. I've been reading all the post on plucking for the past 2 hours. I saw the picture of Max and felt so bad. Angie hasn't plucked her red feather and I hope she doesn't. Thank you so much for all the advise.

 

Rae, I second Judy's comment - that breeder should be turned in! How appalling is that. I would post a warning on Angie's list about that breeder and anywhere else.

 

As for the foraging - I made an environemnt for Jiggy and Bella to forage in on top of their play tops. I have a layer of newspaper, covered by hay (which I bought at the pet store - I bought the hay they use for rabbits). Then I toss their mixed treats through out that - that consists of pellets, a few seeds, and dried fruits and peppers. I also hide walnuts and pistaschios in places around the cage. I bought a couple of those drift wood pieces they use for lizards and put those on the top of the playtops. That gives me a spot to hide things.

 

I also have dixie cups hanging on their cages which I fill with goodies, I hang carrots or celery in various places. I created this little bush of dandelion greens and stuffed it into the crevas of their perch. I also have various toys that they have to cipher out and open to get to the goodies.

 

When I let them out of their cages in the morning, they start foraging almost immediately. Jiggy forages all day long (he's a conure). Bella forages a lot, but mixes it up with play time of tearing up her pinatas, or her wood pieces or sometimes she just comes and sits with me and watches me work on the computer.

 

So, I really get the impression foraging is a big deal for them. It keeps them really busy and they seem to really like hunting for things.

 

Stay in touch!!

Terri

[raehamilton]

Thank you so much for all the advise. I noticed that there is one thing that Angie loves to do but I can't always let her do it and she gets upset. When I open her cage for her to get out and play on her playpen she rushes to climb down to the floor. I've never seen anyone move as fast as she does. She loves being on the floor but unless I am watching her closely she is not allowed. This makes her mad. I've tried to keep her occupied in other ways but she will not have it. She insist on being on the floor.

[judygram]

That is unusual for her to love being on the floor, for most of them do not like being there. Josey will not go there intentionly but if she happens there she kind of waits for someone to come and get her up.

 

This seems a little farfetched to believe that her plucking is caused by that but who am I to say, I am no expert by any means. Maybe you can set aside some time every day and play with her in the floor so she has some time there and see if that helps.

[KatB]

Oliver sometimes climbs down onto the floor when I'm in another room so he can come and see what I'm doing. I don't think it's so much that he likes being on the floor as that it's a means to an end. If walking across the floor is what he has to do to find me, that's what he'll do.

[Nychsa]

Bella likes to fly on to the floor. She then snoops around in every nook and crany. I have to keep an eye on her because she seems to mostly enjoy picking at the heating vents and I don't want her to get hurt. I read that in the wild they are ground foragers primarily (the article implied that their intelligence comes from having to negotiate food with other animals who also look for food on the ground). Maybe she enjoys picking around the way Bella does. I put goodies on the floor sometimes for her, particularly if I'm making food for her. Interestingly, she'll play with it, and toy with it, but not necessarily eat it. Hmmmm:whistle:

[Woody6]

The advise given in this thread is awesome and rest assured you are not a bad parent or as another has said a bad parront (LOL). Hang in there. Your baby needs you. I'm faced with the same plucking issues and I'm looking for a way to get dollars up for the vet. In the meantime I'm going to get that hay and stuff so the birds can forage like the suggestions made in this thread. Maybe your baby would like that too.

[Nychsa]

Woody6 wrote:

The advise given in this thread is awesome and rest assured you are not a bad parent or as another has said a bad parront (LOL). Hang in there. Your baby needs you. I'm faced with the same plucking issues and I'm looking for a way to get dollars up for the vet. In the meantime I'm going to get that hay and stuff so the birds can forage like the suggestions made in this thread. Maybe your baby would like that too.

 

Woody, my avian vet turned me on to the idea of creating a foraging environment on the playtops. He's a real bird lover, has an amazon himself and has tremendous love and experience with birds. Every time we go see him he has some great idea to help me improve Bella and Jiggy's lives.

[Woody6]

Thanks Nychsa. I'm excited about making a good foraging environment for them. I made a mini one tonight using a 13 x 9 dish filled with shredded newspaper, feet toys, and little bits of treats (food) that will not go bad. I sat it on the bottom of the cage so they cannot get hurt.

[raehamilton]

I don't think that Angie wanting to walk on the floor is the cause of her plucking. Her plucking came first. I really think the plucking came after I left Angie at the Breeder's house.

 

Thank you for all your great advise.