Feather Picking / Jekyll & Hyde CAG

[DebT]

Okay, here goes my first post! I'm sure this topic has been discussed over and over again, but my brief search on feather destruction didn't really answer my questions/observations.

 

I've been a grey owner for just over 2 years, brought my baby CAG home in October of 2005 (she was born in late July). She was 3 months old and not quite weaned, but having raised a child and being a gecko breeder for years (among other things), and bottle feeding Fawkes occasionally at the store for a couple of months, the store owner thought it would be okay for me to take her home and continue with the baby food. I bottle fed her 3x a day for several months, then down to twice a day for several months, and once a day (dinner) until she was over a year old. In between bottles I also fed her cooked food, fresh fruit and veggie mashes, and pellets in between that. She is only in her cage to sleep at night; the rest of the day she is either in a jungle gym I built for her out of ropes and branches in our sun room, or on her stand in our kitchen while I work nearby on my computer.

 

At about the time she turned a year old, I felt good that she was a healthy and happy bird and didn't show signs of feather issues. Then I went on vacation for several days in October 2006 and had a house sitter. Up until then I had taken her back to the store when I'd go out of town. Our sitter is my husband's photo assistant, loves animals, and is not a stranger to my pets. While I was gone Fawkes nipped the ends off of several neck and chest feathers. I took her to our vet, very well respected parrot authority in the area, and he said she was healthy. A couple of weeks after that, I went to get a haircut and when I came back there was a big pile of feather ends on the floor. I checked with a person at the Gabriel Foundation who has done research on feather destruction, and she thought maybe a companion for my bird would help.

 

We planned to go out of town for a week in December 2006, so I decided to send her back to the store while we were gone since she doesn't seem to pick there. She was fine when I got back, and in a community cage with a Timneh that had been put up for "adoption". They seemed to get along okay, she had already been exposed to any possible illness he may have had, and so I ended up bringing him home too.

 

I'm still feeding them cooked food twice a day, which I make myself and includes various beans, veggies, greens, fruits, brown rice mix. No wheat. I add some AviCal+ in the mix. When I serve it I warm up for a few secs in the microwave, and then mix in a bit of red palm oil or EFA oil. After that, it's Roudybush pellets, a supplemental veggie during the day, or an almond, brazil or macadamia nut (relatively new additions).

 

Fawkes hasn't yet molted as far as I can tell (at least not the noticeable way my cockatiels used to), so her feathers have remained tattered ever since then. She picked some more feather ends in April, and then it stopped again. Then in October 2007 she nipped off some feather ends. Thinking that a change in the weather may have something to do with it, I started with the EFA and red palm oil and nuts added to her diet. I've started taking her in the shower with me every day. She won't bathe, and hates water sprayed on her, but I thought at least some humidity would help. I also have a humidifier that I put in the sunroom in the winter. I bought a full spectrum lamp, which I need to start getting her exposed to (when she gets over her fear of it).

 

I went out of town for 3 days last week, and left all the animals home with my husband and son. Fawkes started picking big time the night I left, and all through the next day, so I asked my husband to take her to the store for boarding while I was gone. She's continued to pick all this past week. Here's a picture of her new hairdo. Since the ends are missing on her feathers, they tend to fray after that and so she has to continue to nip them shorter.

 

I tend to go out of town for at least a week twice a year, and in between short trips of 2-3 days about once a month or so. My habits have not changed since bringing Fawkes home.

 

I had her tested for Giardia (mailed in 3 feces samples); that was negative.

 

Her wings have always been clipped, although I like to keep her feathers long enough that she can at least coast to where she wants to go in the house.

 

Our Timneh does not pick at his feathers. The two of them do not get along, so have separate cages and perches.

 

Patterns I've noticed:

 

1. Picking in October and December. We'll see what this April brings.

2. When she's in her picking phase, she does not seem interested in her toys. I buy or make extra chewy toys for her, and she doesn't want anything to do with them and would rather sit somewhere and nip off her feathers.

3. She seems more vocal during picking season, with some ugly annoying screeches that I ignore.

4. She's more prone to bite for no reason during these times too, like she's really crabby. Less cooperative. Reminds me of PMS.

5. She'll want to sit on my shoulder, and then will nip off my hair or try to bite holes in my shirt or sweater. Although she's not interested in biting her chewy toys (a combination of wood, plastic, paper, cardboard, straw, straws, ice cream sticks, rubbery plastic).

6. She seems to pull out some down after I put her to bed.

 

Sorry this is so long, but I've wanted to get this down on "paper" for a long time, hoping to see some answers myself. Plus I know you need a lot of information in order to help with brainstorming.

 

I do work at home, so I'm here for the birds a lot, but I also go in and out all day and do go out of town occasionally so she should be used to that.

 

Well, that's our story. Any comments, suggestions, theories would be appreciated. Oh, in my desperation to make her stop, I even hired an animal communicator to do a "remote viewing" talk with Fawkes. I think I was had. Oh well.

 

Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 18:54

 

Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 18:56<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 19:17

[BMustee]

hmmmmm, well it sounds to me like there is some separation anxiety that is attached to the picking. I have heard a lot of stories that are similar to yours and it's always the birds that get the all day attention and when it stops due to vacation, hospital stay, or things like that it's right to plucking. The one question I have is how often did you go out of town before this started and how often have you gone after it started with the picking happening?

[BMustee]

Although I don't think this will stop the picking, you said you don't really get the bird wet because he doesn't like it...well, he should get a bath if he likes it or not. A lot of people use Aloe juice because it acts like a moisturizer for their skin...but they need to be saturated not just sprayed a little. Search the forum for Aloe and Baths…there is a lot of info on that here.

[DebT]

Yes, it could be separation anxiety, but I don't know why it doesn't stop when I come home. I've added this info to my original post:

 

"I tend to go out of town for at least a week twice a year, and in between short trips of 2-3 days about once a month or so. My habits have not changed since bringing Fawkes home."

 

She just nipped off a tail feather.

[judygram]

What is your reaction to his nipping off of his feathers? He may just be continuing to do it for the response he gets from you, you need to ignore it, I know that is hard to do but if that is the reason why he does it then you have no choice.

[DebT]

I haven't been reacting to the feather picking while she does it, don't say or do anything. She doesn't always do it in front of me, I'll just walk into the sun room and there will be a pile of feathers on the floor.

 

I don't know why she bites me so much at these times, she must be agitated for some reason. I've wondered about hormones.

[judygram]

At two and a half years of age she is no where near sexual maturity yet, try bathing her at least 2 times a week like suggested earlier in a previous post, and usee the aloe vera juice and soak her good. Her skin may be dry and she is picking because it irritates her, my Josey does not care for baths either but I do it anyway for her own good.

[chapala]

I can see why this is such a frurstrating situation for you, because you have been trying to do all the right things! There are so many reasons for barbering or plucking that it's often hard to figure out why a bird does it. I don't have personal experience with pluckers, but have heard that the giardia test often has false readings. Giardia as I'm sure you know can make them itchy and uncomfortable. Has your bird had blood tests recently? Might be worth checking out her general health if she hasn't a check-up lately.

 

It does sound like something might be bothering her because of the increase in biting at the same time. Just more irritable in general. Hope she can get some relief.

 

Bathing is good. My Grey will bathe in a large water bowl in the aviary, or in a big Pyrex baking dish on a table where he plays. I got him used to it by putting almonds and little toys in the water until he would go in. Took a week or so of daily exposure before he bathed. I also mist him regularly - I talk about how much fun the shower is while I'm misting him (I always use plain water, no chlorine), and he actually asks for a shower sometimes. He fluffs his feathers up while I'm misting him. You may want to try various approaches to getting your bird misted or wet at least once a week. Misting wasn't an option for Kali in the beginning (now he likes it) - I figure it rains on them in their native habitat, and they can't do anything about it. So, when younger he just got misted. He does not like the human shower, and I don't take him in there. I think the spray is just too hard.

Reta

[DebT]

Chapala: I'll try the pyrex baking dish to try to get her to bathe. I tried misting her when I first brought her home but she would totally freak out and start screaming and running away. I tried getting her into a bowl a few times, she refuses. In the shower I've tried to redirect the spray with my bare hands, and she screams and almost falls off the shower perch. I've not pursued this too aggressively since I don't want her to end up hating me/holding a grudge which I've heard can happen. Just don't know how far I can push her safely. I even had my son and two friends flap happy while I misted them, hoping she would see it as a positive thing; and have shown her YouTube videos of greys and other parrots taking showers.

 

By the way, I did have a complete blood workup last fall when I took an online class through the Gabriel Foundation and was considering adopting from them (I needed a health cert on Fawkes). We did a giardia test at that time, and then I also did it a month ago, three samples mailed away to a California lab. Negative results.<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 20:24

[BMustee]

Maybe he is mad at you for leaving...and thats why he bites when he gets like that.

[DebT]

JudyGram: How do you give baths?<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 20:21

[judygram]

I put her in the tub and spray her down good with the aloe vera juice until she is soaked. At first she does protest but she gives up and just stands there while I spray her, I think once she gets wet it feels good to her. I do the same thing to my sun conure, she hates it and tries to get away but you got it, I give it to her anyway. Of course all I have to do with her is run the vacuum cleaner and she will bathe in her water dish.

[DebT]

I just went to Whole Foods and bought some Aloe Vera juice, and a sprayer at Ace. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[Dave007]

Some African Greys who lightly pluck their feathers may increase that plucking if they feel insecure about other birds in their household. I'm not saying this absolutely applies to.your bird. Basically, it's a MAYBE. Some greys perceive its bonded person may be paying too much attention to another bird so it may start plucking to bring the owner's attention back to it. Greys can be very competitive animals and will do anything to keep their owners' attention on them.

 

This leads us into secondary reasons for feather mutilation. Most people don't realize that there can be more than one reason their bird plucks or bites its feathers. What may have started from one reason can easily turn into a far more difficult problem when the bird realizes it can always get its owner's attention by plucking. I have seen many birds who continue plucking after the original reason to pluck has been resolved, simply because they know they'll get some sort of constant attention. At that point their owners are completely in the dark about what might be causing their bird to pluck, since they can't relate the plucking behavior to any particular event.

 

The constant attention varies. Some people yell at their birds when they see them pluck feathers. Others walk up to the cage and tell the bird how pretty it is, hoping to praise it into stopping its plucking behavior. Some admonish the bird with a stern voice, while others become upset and concerned, allowing the bird to see their concern. Whether it's yelling or just thinking about the bird plucking, all are success stories to the bird who craves attention by pulling out its feathers.

 

My advice is simple. If the bird indicates to me that it's plucking feathers to gain attention, I would at first walk away. Many birds will only pluck when they see their owners watching them or when the person walks into the room, knowing the humans start worrying when they see the bird pull its feathers. Other birds will constantly pluck because of irritated skin or dry room conditions or being too close to heating vents

 

If your bird plucks to receive attention, you should increase the amount of attention paid to it in a focused attention manner. The parrot needs to learn that it will get attention for certain behaviors, however, not the plucking behavior. I tell some people to transfer their praise and attention to something their bird does that isn't destructive, teaching the bird to use that positive behavior to ask for attention, rather than pulling its feathers. Simply removing attention from plucking by walking away or ignoring the feather mutilation is not enough. The bird still wants attention and will do whatever it needs to get that attention. Many Greys have cute tricks they do or phrases they say that please their owners. Deliberately rewarding these cute actions with praise and attention often teaches the bird to perform the cute act, rather than pick its feathers, for attention.

 

Misting--you say that the bird hates misting. Well then, try to use 1/2 squirts. Get as close as possible to your bird. Aim for the feet and slowly work your way up to the breast area. Don't worry about the wings. They're waterproof and any fluid that gets on them will just slide off the bird. Don't mist the bird's face. 1/2 squirts won't splash the bird all over the place. Constantly adjust the nozzle on the bottle so that the spray doesn't hit large areas. A little spritz here, a little spritz there. The breast, lower neck and in between the wings and body are the most commonly plucked areas. Mist often, everyday if possible. The bird will fear it less and less. Many people here use aloe but the most important thing here is that you get the skin soaked whether it be aloe or water. Greys are well known pluckers.

 

My opinion about the pictures of your bird? In my eyes, the bird's problem is still in the minor stage but it can escalate. Deal with the problem now.

 

Also, it would be in your bird's best interest to spray your other bird at the same time so that he doesn't think he's being singled out. Just my opinion but I've seen it work in the past.

[DebT]

Dave, good points, all of them! I actually picked up my second grey because Fawkes was already nipping her feathers and I was told she may be lonely. The picking hasn't escalated since I brought Cinders home, it seems to be seasonal at best. I've been ignoring her feather destruction (not giving attention) because I'd read about how that can turn out to be an attention getter. But the picking coupled with her biting me more and also clipping off my hair and fabrics seems to want to make sense in my mind. Her skin does look scaly at times, and being in Colorado when fall comes it gets dryer than usual, and then the furnace comes on which makes things even worse. I tried a whole house humidifier on the furnace and it caused a white powder to cover everything--probably the minerals in our lousy water. I have two portable humidifiers that I'll put in the sun room today, maybe also move them to the cage area at night.

 

Maybe its a combination of separation anxiety and itchy skin. I sure wish we could read their minds! Or even bring our birds to a person who can observe and say "this is what's wrong…"

 

I just sprayed both of my birds with aloe vera, put them in my upstairs bathtub with a towel on the bottom. They both hated it, but survived, and are now drying out in my sun room. I'll post photos later today when I get more time.

 

Good idea about spraying them together, they don't get along but I may be able to manage to keep them running for their lives in the tub rather than boxing each other.

[DebT]

By the way, what do I do with the extra aloe vera? Can I put the leftovers back in the bottle and refrigerate? It's very expensive, don't want to just throw it away.

 

Also, will it irritate their eyes if I accidentally get some in there?

 

And -- I had a choice of juice from the whole leaf, or juice from the inside of the leaf. Does it matter?

[Christina]

DebT - my grey loves to bathe herself on a wet plant. I have one of those hanging viney plants (sorry, no green thumb here, I don't know what its called but its one that you can't kill) that I take down and water, making sure all the leaves are wet, and she jumps on that sucker and flaps and carries on. I just watered my plant one day and Finni was wandering around and just did it. Seems natural to me, maybe Fawkes would take to that as well. Sorry I can't be more help on plucking issue.

[krutsingd]

When I first adopted my TAG last spring, Peanut HATED to be misted. He came to me as a plucker (around his neck and the very top of his chest) and so I knew he could potentially pluck for the rest of his life. I misted Peanut daily regardless of the rukos he made and within a few short weeks, he learned from our CAG that being misted was fun. Now when I come with the spray bottle, he bobs his head and begins shaking his feathers in anticipation. I agree that the birds need to be bathed weather they like it or not. I've never been able to get my Greys to the shower or the sink, but at least a couple of times a week when I'm misting, I drench them. The daily misting has drastically reduced Peanut's plucking. He hasn't stopped completely but I certainly think it's worth a try. I've done it with Aloe and without Aloe and I haven't noticed a significant difference between the Aloe and the plain water. But when Peanut's skin looks really raw, I do rub in a water and Aloe mixture. I haven't had to do that for several months now though. Regardless of which bathing method you want Fawkes to learn, be prepared that it may take weeks to accomplish. But patience and consistency will pay off. Good luck!

[Dave007]

Never throw away the Aloe. Put the mister filled with aloe and the jug it came in into the fridge. A 1 gal jug should last at least 6 mts or more. It doesn't go bad. The worst thing that can happen to a jug of aloe after about 8 mts is that it thins a bit. Time to get another jug although the thinned out aloe is still good to use.. If your birds' feathers get back to normal, continue with aloe at least once a week. You say it was expensive? Check Walmart or Walgreens or Rite Aid. The price of one gal varies between $8 to $10. The secret is easy, relaxed spraying, doing both birds the same time whether or not the other bird needs it. You never can never over *aloe* them. Check out the people here and you'll see that they use it for general bathing. No feather problems. Read the board here and make your own decision. At first, your birds won't like being sprayed. Many don't, but just persevere. They will get used to it and will eventually only give out a little growl.

 

Oh yes, eyes--it won't hurt the eyes or face at all. I always spray my birds' body, head and face. They don't even blink.If ingested, they'll be no problems at all. It isn't toxic. To the bird, it will taste like weak orange juice.

 

One other thing about the bird that's now plucking---after the misting or bath, don't towel dry. Let the bird stay soaked. The aloe will moisturize the skin. Afterward, the bird willl start to productively preen.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2007/12/13 00:27

[DebT]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for even more information! As an update, Fawkes decided to take a foot bath a couple of hours after I soaked her with aloe. She did manage to nip off a few more feathers, but hey, the more the merrier. I'm going to soak her again tomorrow if I can get her into the tub. If not, I'll find another way. I'll do both birds at the same time and see what happens. They were both shaking and distressed after their showers, but seemed to forget about the trauma after 15 minutes or so. I put them in my sun room to warm up, which stays around 80+ degrees even if its 20 degrees outside. Its hard to stay grumpy when the sun is out.

 

Thanks for the tip on getting Aloe Vera juice at Walmart, I bought a pint at Whole Foods for around $6.00 so Walmart pricing is appealing! Being an old hippie at heart, I have a huge aloe plant that I keep around for sunburns, etc. May end up juicing that too!

 

We may get this under control after all!

 

Here's a grumpy wet Fawkes ~

 

[DebT]

Another question: when do CAGs molt? Fawkes still has her first feathers, and she's almost 2-1/2 years old. She's lost a feather here and there, but nothing like the deluge of feather dropping like my cockatiels used to have.

[birdmom]

Hi Deb,

 

Well you've got lots of great advice, here. Lets see...about the humidifiers, I've taken mine out also this week and will clean it and get it running since the furnace is kicking on alot. I also put an airflow redirect things over the forced air furnace vents so the heated air blows up and not down toward her cage...

 

Buddi really seemed to do better a few weeks ago when I bathed her 3-4 times a week. She just gets so flocky, seh hates it so I cut back but I guess that was a mistake. But between the showers and the palm oil about 1/2 of the plucked area has grown back but she won't let the new pins on the back of her neck flourish. She likes to pluck there. I have noticed her watching Charlie preening lately, so I scritch with him and talk to her, hoping she will take note that he does not pluck and we still have fun.

 

The other thing I've started doing is that when she plucks one out I tell her, "no don't pull your feathers" and put her right back into her cage and ignore her. She likes to pull out a new pin feather when she is on my shoulder if I don't scratch her continually. I'll be doing something else, and oops out comes a pin feather. But I see Fawkes is shredding.

 

One thing I did last April when all her plucking started (same time that I got Charlie) was somebody told me not to let her shred paper towel and T.P. rolls, they said cardboard is bad, so I stopped giving them to her and switched to store bought shredding toys. But she used to love them and now that I think of it, it was just around February when I did that. I brought Charlie home in April. So maybe she got mad, and without any rolls to shred, she went to her feathers?

 

I have decided to try it again and it keeps her entertained for hours she loves to shred TP rolls and paper towels, empty or not don't ask me what it is but whenever I finish a roll, it goes on top of her cage. She loves to chew them up thru the top of her cage.

She also likes to kill them when they are full of paper. So, I'm trying to occupy her beak all the time with something constructive to shred. I mean, that cage is full of shredded cardboard daily but I clean it right up.

 

Do they sell those rolls of colored pinata paper called Shredders there? Buddi likes to tear those up too. They come in a roll for about 6 bucks. You can thread it thru the cage bars, and it may give her another option if she is frustrated?

 

I think trying the Aloe, more baths, and a humidifier near the cage are good so Good luck and good karma!

 

joanne

[DebT]

Just thought I'd toss out an update for anyone who is hanging on the edge of their seat… I decided to give Fawkes and Cinders a spray bath again today since tomorrow is supposed to be snowy and cold. Neither bird liked it, although Fawkes CAG was less rattled then Cinders TAG. I think part of Cinders fear was having Fawkes in our big bathtub with him--he actually broke a wing feather close to the skin, which I had to clip off since it was sticking out to the front of him. Fawkes, oddly enough, has not groomed herself since today's shower (it's been almost 3 hours). Maybe she really doesn't know what grooming is about!

 

I'm running two humidifiers in our sun room today, took a few hours for the humidity to get within the "comfort range" on my meter. Good ole Colorado!

[raehamilton]

Hi,

 

I haven't posted for about 4 months. I bought Angie in May 2007 and I went out of town twice since then. The first time I took Angie back to the boarding house were I bought her and she was fine. The second time I took her she started plucking her feathers when I brought her home. Each time I was gone for a week. She is completely bald now except for her tail, head and wings.

 

I always walk away when she plucks in front of me. She aslo has plenty of different toys and I haven't changed her diet. I am glad you posted your situation and it gave me some ideas of what to try.

 

Thank you.

[judygram]

I am so sorry to hear of this Raehamilton, but some are affected by our absence and Angie may well be one of them that are. There are some good suggestions in this thread, try them out and let us know how they work for you and don't stay away for so long, we miss you here on the forum.